I recall someone sending me some family history information, I think on the Paine's, and they were mentioning the fact that almost the entire population of Woodchurch was lost to the plague, I think in the 1700's. Does anyone know anything about this? I'll have to try and track down the note I was sent, but I was just curious if anyone else had information on it. Gillian _________________________________________________________________ Put Your Face In Your Space with Windows Live Spaces http://spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-ca

Josie, Cheers for that - just found that on his 2nd marriage in 1784 William Paine hailed from Lydd - further evidence that we may well be Hugenots! P -----Original Message----- From: eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Josie Mackie Sent: 25 August 2007 21:59 To: eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] 19th Century Migration from Woodchurch Hello Philip, Bob Chown and I transcribed the burials' records. Gary has put them, with a search facility, on his site: http://goldbern.co.uk/woodchurch/index.htm Best wishes, Josie ----- Original Message ----- From: "philip paine" <Philip@ppaine8.wanadoo.co.uk> To: <eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] 19th Century Migration from Woodchurch > Hi, > Are the burials records for Woodchurch church kept in an accessible place > as I feel that my gt gt gt gt granddad will be in there - there are none of > my surname with headstones in the churchyard, so I guess that he may well be > unmarked. Where are these sorts of records kept? > Phil. > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Philip, Bob Chown and I transcribed the burials' records. Gary has put them, with a search facility, on his site: http://goldbern.co.uk/woodchurch/index.htm Best wishes, Josie ----- Original Message ----- From: "philip paine" <Philip@ppaine8.wanadoo.co.uk> To: <eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] 19th Century Migration from Woodchurch > Hi, > Are the burials records for Woodchurch church kept in an accessible place > as I feel that my gt gt gt gt granddad will be in there - there are none of > my surname with headstones in the churchyard, so I guess that he may well be > unmarked. Where are these sorts of records kept? > Phil. > >

Hi, Are the burials records for Woodchurch church kept in an accessible place as I feel that my gt gt gt gt granddad will be in there - there are none of my surname with headstones in the churchyard, so I guess that he may well be unmarked. Where are these sorts of records kept? Phil. -----Original Message----- From: eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Josie Mackie Sent: 25 August 2007 20:32 To: eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] 19th Century Migration from Woodchurch Thank you, Philip and Gary, for your replies. I'd love to know exactly why indiviuals left the village....was it mainly push or pull factors? Probably a mixture of both. But I've always assumed the dip in population, as you said, Gary, was due to migration because of lack of employment in the fields...there doesn't seem to have been massive outbreaks of disease, not enough to account for falling populations anyway. I am hoping that some of our members will be able to supply me with definite evidence that their g-g-?-grandfather got on a ship because he couldn't find work in the village!!! However, I'm pretty sure there was widespread unemployment for agricultural labourers earlier in the century as well: somewhere hidden temporarily in my notes I have a quote from 'Captain Swing' (Hobsbawn and Rude, I think, off the top of my head) which says that at least 60 men were unemployed in Woodchurch in the late 1820s. I must check that again, but 60 adult men out of a total population of about 1100 is big. So I'm thinking that the migration started somewhat earlier and looking at the population figures for Woodchurch, they do start to level off in 1841, rather than increasing steadily as they did in the forty years before. Thanks again, Josie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, Philip and Gary, for your replies. I'd love to know exactly why indiviuals left the village....was it mainly push or pull factors? Probably a mixture of both. But I've always assumed the dip in population, as you said, Gary, was due to migration because of lack of employment in the fields...there doesn't seem to have been massive outbreaks of disease, not enough to account for falling populations anyway. I am hoping that some of our members will be able to supply me with definite evidence that their g-g-?-grandfather got on a ship because he couldn't find work in the village!!! However, I'm pretty sure there was widespread unemployment for agricultural labourers earlier in the century as well: somewhere hidden temporarily in my notes I have a quote from 'Captain Swing' (Hobsbawn and Rude, I think, off the top of my head) which says that at least 60 men were unemployed in Woodchurch in the late 1820s. I must check that again, but 60 adult men out of a total population of about 1100 is big. So I'm thinking that the migration started somewhat earlier and looking at the population figures for Woodchurch, they do start to level off in 1841, rather than increasing steadily as they did in the forty years before. Thanks again, Josie

Hi Josie, According to David Eveleigh, in his 'The Victorian Farmer' (Shire Publications), the heyday of farming (pardon the pun) in the nineteenth century appears to have come to an end in 1875. As Woodchurch was then primarily an agricultural community, those seeking work on the land would have had a hard time of things. The weather deteriorated significantly in the years following (a climate change blip, perhaps), with the wetter seasons producing poor harvests. Cereal farmers were the worst hit, both by poor yields and cheap foreign grain imports. Dairy farmers, on the other hand, were less affected: the newly-constructed railways meant they could get their produce into urban markets quickly and no longer needed to rely on local sales. From the end of the 1870s more and more farmers began to sell their holdings, and by 1900 many of the well-established farming families had gone. This national depression in agriculture was certainly mirrored in Woodchurch. Improved transport together with better pay and working conditions in towns also attracted farm workers away from the the village and into urban-based industries and services. Interestingly enough, a gradual decrease in the village population--falling from 1269 in 1871 to 1050 in 1901--almost certainly supports this claim of significant migration away from rural areas at the end of the nineteenth century. And, of course, many families were persuaded, as was yours, by new and potentially lucrative opportunities in the colonies. All the best Gary Samson Canterbury, Kent NOW Available Online! 'A Stroll Around the Green' www.goldbern.co.uk/woodchurch/stroll.htm Josie Mackie said the following on 25.08.2007 13:29: > Good Afternoon All, I am going to do a talk for the Woodchurch Local > History Society in October on Work and Occupations in Woodchurch > 1700-1900. As part of it, I want to include a piece on the lack of > work in the village for much of the nineteenth century, and the large > number of villagers migrating to other places in England or > emigrating to other parts of the World. My own grandparents left > Woodchurch a little later-about 1910- to emigrate to Canada, and no > doubt half of me(!) would be living there today, had it not been for > my grandfather's being killed in France in WWl and my grandmother > then returning to England with their children. If your ancestor > left Woodchurch in the nineteeth century, I would love to hear from > you, especially if you know why they moved. Thanks, Josie

Hi, If you check the Paine family-tree that I deposited with the museum, I feel certain that my lot left the village in that century. Feel certain that it would have been work (or lack of it), that caused this. PP -----Original Message----- From: eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Josie Mackie Sent: 25 August 2007 13:29 To: eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] 19th Century Migration from Woodchurch Good Afternoon All, I am going to do a talk for the Woodchurch Local History Society in October on Work and Occupations in Woodchurch 1700-1900. As part of it, I want to include a piece on the lack of work in the village for much of the nineteenth century, and the large number of villagers migrating to other places in England or emigrating to other parts of the World. My own grandparents left Woodchurch a little later-about 1910- to emigrate to Canada, and no doubt half of me(!) would be living there today, had it not been for my grandfather's being killed in France in WWl and my grandmother then returning to England with their children. If your ancestor left Woodchurch in the nineteeth century, I would love to hear from you, especially if you know why they moved. Thanks, Josie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good Afternoon All, I am going to do a talk for the Woodchurch Local History Society in October on Work and Occupations in Woodchurch 1700-1900. As part of it, I want to include a piece on the lack of work in the village for much of the nineteenth century, and the large number of villagers migrating to other places in England or emigrating to other parts of the World. My own grandparents left Woodchurch a little later-about 1910- to emigrate to Canada, and no doubt half of me(!) would be living there today, had it not been for my grandfather's being killed in France in WWl and my grandmother then returning to England with their children. If your ancestor left Woodchurch in the nineteeth century, I would love to hear from you, especially if you know why they moved. Thanks, Josie

Good Evening Josie The 1937 auction prospectus naturally lists the properties that were part of the Hengherst Estate. I think I used this source when I wrote chapter 6 of Then & Now. I see that on page 75 I have listed Little Engeham as part of the estate but not Great Engeham. There are of course (in modern times) both Great Engeham Farm and Little Engeham Farm. I hope this helps Cheers - Jon -----Original Message----- From: eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Josie Mackie Sent: 19 August 2007 17:37 To: eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] Message to the Woodchurchlist: Prior/Pryer/Pryor/Baker/Burden/Schreiber > William Baker (1784-1867) was a farmer and the 1841 Census has him at > Great Engham. I understand that this place/area has gone through a > variety of name changes eg Engham Manor and Hengehurst. More local > people may be able to put me right on this. Dear Liz, Great Engham and Hengehurst are two different places, although within a mile of each other. Presumably their lands bordered each other, or possibly belonged to each at different times. I don't know offhand if the Schreibers (Hengehurst) owned Engham in the nineteenth century......perhaps John or Gary knows? Engham is sometimes spelled Ingham. There are two 'Enghams' though. Great Engham and Little Engham (or Ingham!). Hope this helps, Josie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry, Jon, I did, of course, mean Jon, not John!!! Josie

> William Baker (1784-1867) was a farmer and the 1841 Census has him at > Great Engham. I understand that this place/area has gone through a > variety of name changes eg Engham Manor and Hengehurst. More local > people may be able to put me right on this. Dear Liz, Great Engham and Hengehurst are two different places, although within a mile of each other. Presumably their lands bordered each other, or possibly belonged to each at different times. I don't know offhand if the Schreibers (Hengehurst) owned Engham in the nineteenth century......perhaps John or Gary knows? Engham is sometimes spelled Ingham. There are two 'Enghams' though. Great Engham and Little Engham (or Ingham!). Hope this helps, Josie

Hello Lorraine, I have history on some of the Bakers from Woodchurch, although my branch of the family left sometime after the 1881 census. I don't recall seeing any mention of William Patrick Baker, although William Baker is a very common combination for the area. There were also Bakers living closeby in Ebony and Bethersden etc. William Baker (1784-1867) was a farmer and the 1841 Census has him at Great Engham. I understand that this place/area has gone through a variety of name changes eg Engham Manor and Hengehurst. More local people may be able to put me right on this. Best wishes Liz Shoosmith (nee Baker) Lorraine wrote: > Hi All, > > My maternal family originated from Woodchurch and I can trace some of them > back to the early nineteenth century but I am really interested in my > Grandmothers era from 1906 in Woodchurch. Her name was Annie Elizabeth Prior > and she was born in the Gate House at Henghurst House - which I believe was > demolished just before WW2 - as her father worked for the Schreiber family. > Sadly her father died 5 months after Annie was born and her mother (Annie > Elizabeth Prior nee Cackett) and brother William Edwin Prior and sister > Winnifred Ethel Pryer had to leave residence. I know the children lived with > their grandparents John & Ann Pryor (nee Burden) for a while as their mother > had taken up with a traveller called William Patrick Baker but at some stage > their mum came back and stole the children out of the grandparents garden > and they ended up living in Tunbridge Wells (appx 1910). > > What I would like to know is can I get any info on Henghurst House & the > Schriebers and why they left Woodchurch. > > Also my GGG uncle William Edwin Pryer/Pryor/Prior died in The Asylum, > Chartham in 1924. I can find him on the 1991 census but not on the 1901 > census and would like to know why and at what age he was sectioned. > > If anyone out there has any info on > Prior/Pryer/Pryor/Baker/Burden/Schreiber/Cackett I would love to hear from > you. > > many thanks > > Lorraine - waiting in anticipation!!!!!! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Dear Bob, Thank you so much for the info on Chartham Asylum. I am signed up with Ancestry.com so will have a search on there for William - but he is an illusive chap... Kind regards, Lorraine. -----Original Message----- From: eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-ken-woodchurch-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of BOB CHOWN Sent: 13 August 2007 07:30 To: eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] Chartham Asylum Dear Lorraine If you have not checked the 1901 Census for the Chartham Asylum yet, you can do so through Ancestry.com at your local library. The lunatics were listed by initial only in alphabetical order of surname, eg W. E. P. for William Edwin Prior. He was not a patient in 1901. Their age and occupation was given but not their place of birth. In 1901 there were about 1200 staff and patients. They had their own cemetery that still exists though families could bury their relatives elsewhere if they wished as happened to about 6 Woodchurch patients. Woodchurch was part of the East Kent catchment area of the Asylum. The Asylum opened in the late 1870's and closed in the early 1990's. It is now a very nice housing development. Our daughter and son-in-law live there. Best wishes - Bob Chown Lorraine <lorraine@neillerner.com> wrote: Hi All, My maternal family originated from Woodchurch and I can trace some of them back to the early nineteenth century but I am really interested in my Grandmothers era from 1906 in Woodchurch. Her name was Annie Elizabeth Prior and she was born in the Gate House at Henghurst House - which I believe was demolished just before WW2 - as her father worked for the Schreiber family. Sadly her father died 5 months after Annie was born and her mother (Annie Elizabeth Prior nee Cackett) and brother William Edwin Prior and sister Winnifred Ethel Pryer had to leave residence. I know the children lived with their grandparents John & Ann Pryor (nee Burden) for a while as their mother had taken up with a traveller called William Patrick Baker but at some stage their mum came back and stole the children out of the grandparents garden and they ended up living in Tunbridge Wells (appx 1910). What I would like to know is can I get any info on Henghurst House & the Schriebers and why they left Woodchurch. Also my GGG uncle William Edwin Pryer/Pryor/Prior died in The Asylum, Chartham in 1924. I can find him on the 1991 census but not on the 1901 census and would like to know why and at what age he was sectioned. If anyone out there has any info on Prior/Pryer/Pryor/Baker/Burden/Schreiber/Cackett I would love to hear from you. many thanks Lorraine - waiting in anticipation!!!!!! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Tony, I was very interested to read your email sent on by Jon as our group, The Woodchurch Ancestry Group, is planning to hold an exhibition next Summer about Woodchurch in 1871. Further details will be on the website: http://woodchurch.hollyer.name/ shortly. If your Seelley ancestors were in Woodchurch in 1871, would you consider sending us a short write-up about the family for the exhibition? Best wishes, Josie Mackie.

Good Morning Tony (Fitzgerald) I am forwarding your message to our global group of researchers into Woodchurch family histories, as well as the Editor of the Woodchurch Parish Magazine. Personally I have no knowledge of anybody with these names now living in Woodchurch but have Firminger friends who live nearby in Cranbrook. I hope something comes of this. Thank you for contacting us. Best Wishes - Jon Chaplin From: Tony Fitzgerald [mailto:tony.fitzgerald@xtra.co.nz] Sent: 07 August 2007 01:53 To: apmobbs@aol.com Subject: Family history Hello - my maternal roots lie, partly, with the SEELLY family who had their roots in Aldington and many of whom later lived out their lives in Woodchurch. Whilst two brothers, William and Robert, married and had very large families in the early/mid 19th Century, unfortunately, remaining unmarried was the lot of so many of them and all the male lines have now completely disappeared. The reason I am writing is because I have just completed a very comprehensive research into this family - back to the 17th century and have managed to contact a number of descendants, now living in different parts of the country and with different surnames. Other names that might strike a chord locally are BANKS, MILLS, FIRMINGER and COACHWORTH (my grandmother's name but she was from Boughton-under-Blean). Not many of the family managed to break away from farmwork but I would mention one who did - Edward St. John SEELLY (1887-1967) who became a Medical Practitioner in Truro. His son, Michael, was killed in action in 1943 and his father, William, had been a Clerk in Holy Orders. It would seem a great pity that having undertaken this very long project that I should not be able to share it with any of the Woodchurch villagers who may be interested and I would be grateful if you would make this known through your Parish magazine giving my email address to anyone who would like to contact me. Thank you. Best wishes TONY FITZGERALD, PO Box 204, Rangiora, NEW ZEALAND, 7440 Home page - http://genealogypro.com/tfitzgerald/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.6/938 - Release Date: 5/08/2007 4:16 p.m.

Dear Lorraine If you have not checked the 1901 Census for the Chartham Asylum yet, you can do so through Ancestry.com at your local library. The lunatics were listed by initial only in alphabetical order of surname, eg W. E. P. for William Edwin Prior. He was not a patient in 1901. Their age and occupation was given but not their place of birth. In 1901 there were about 1200 staff and patients. They had their own cemetery that still exists though families could bury their relatives elsewhere if they wished as happened to about 6 Woodchurch patients. Woodchurch was part of the East Kent catchment area of the Asylum. The Asylum opened in the late 1870's and closed in the early 1990's. It is now a very nice housing development. Our daughter and son-in-law live there. Best wishes - Bob Chown Lorraine <lorraine@neillerner.com> wrote: Hi All, My maternal family originated from Woodchurch and I can trace some of them back to the early nineteenth century but I am really interested in my Grandmothers era from 1906 in Woodchurch. Her name was Annie Elizabeth Prior and she was born in the Gate House at Henghurst House - which I believe was demolished just before WW2 - as her father worked for the Schreiber family. Sadly her father died 5 months after Annie was born and her mother (Annie Elizabeth Prior nee Cackett) and brother William Edwin Prior and sister Winnifred Ethel Pryer had to leave residence. I know the children lived with their grandparents John & Ann Pryor (nee Burden) for a while as their mother had taken up with a traveller called William Patrick Baker but at some stage their mum came back and stole the children out of the grandparents garden and they ended up living in Tunbridge Wells (appx 1910). What I would like to know is can I get any info on Henghurst House & the Schriebers and why they left Woodchurch. Also my GGG uncle William Edwin Pryer/Pryor/Prior died in The Asylum, Chartham in 1924. I can find him on the 1991 census but not on the 1901 census and would like to know why and at what age he was sectioned. If anyone out there has any info on Prior/Pryer/Pryor/Baker/Burden/Schreiber/Cackett I would love to hear from you. many thanks Lorraine - waiting in anticipation!!!!!! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Gary Thank you for the information. The dates cetainly fit in, so it is a real possibility these could be my missing wives. Regards Jilda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Samson" <gsamson@goldbern.co.uk> To: <eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] BURDEN marriages > Dear Jilda, > > I wonder if either of these marriages are yours: > > 1787 14 Dec BURDEN James Elizabeth Moore Frittenden > 1801 24 May BURDEN James Mary Jenner Biddenden > > Gary in Canterbury on a beautifully warm and sunny summer's day > > > > jildawhiddon said the following on 10.08.2007 07:12: >> Dear Josie >> Thank you for the email address of Ivor and Mary >> I have James Burden Married to Elizabeth ? about 1793 and married to Mary >> ?about 1799/1800 >> I am trying to find the ladies surnames >> Regards Jilda in Sydney on a beautifully warm and sunny winters day > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 > 6:43 PM > >

Hi All. Hope you are all enjoying our spell of summer. Can anyone tell me if any records exist for pupils attending the village school in the late eighteen hundreds.? I am still trying to find information on a Jessie Orvis who is recorded in the 1901 Woodchurch census as being adopted by John and Mary Poune. Best wishes to all Ernie Smith

Dear Josie Thank you for the email address of Ivor and Mary I have James Burden Married to Elizabeth ? about 1793 and married to Mary ?about 1799/1800 I am trying to find the ladies surnames Regards Jilda in Sydney on a beautifully warm and sunny winters day ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josie Mackie" <josie.mackie@tesco.net> To: <eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] SETTERTREE Family > Good Morning Jilda, > The address I have for Ivor and mary is kmir@xtra.co.nz . > I am also descended from the BURDEN family, strangely enough. Have we > talked about them before? I have a terrible memory. My great-grandmother > was Emma Frances Burden who married Charles Coleman. Any bells? > Best wishes, Josie > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 > 6:43 PM > >

Dear Jilda, I wonder if either of these marriages are yours: 1787 14 Dec BURDEN James Elizabeth Moore Frittenden 1801 24 May BURDEN James Mary Jenner Biddenden Gary in Canterbury on a beautifully warm and sunny summer's day jildawhiddon said the following on 10.08.2007 07:12: > Dear Josie > Thank you for the email address of Ivor and Mary > I have James Burden Married to Elizabeth ? about 1793 and married to Mary > ?about 1799/1800 > I am trying to find the ladies surnames > Regards Jilda in Sydney on a beautifully warm and sunny winters day