In a message dated 4/3/2005 4:45:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, corineous@btinternet.com writes: I am trying to go through 1851 Census at the moment to see if that is helpful but there are a lot of records for Hemel Hempstead and a few GEORGES. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray, You are being very kind to help. I have Alfred George in 1851 census of Hemel Hempstead (he is 1st entry below): The 1851 census index for Hemel Hempstead lists the following GEORGE entries (address and then name and age): 127 Chapel St - ***Alfred 18***, Emma 20, George 13, Henry 9, John 41 113 Bury Mill End Hill - Elizabeth 1, George 45, Henry 6, John 13, Joseph 8, Rachael 21, Rebecca 49 42 Coxs Pond - Elizabeth 60, John 53 4 Agnells Farm - Isaac 25 140 Marlowes -Emily J 14 16 High St Green, Hobletts Orchard - Jane 41 32 The Yew Tree Farm - George 19 50 High Street - Sarah 7 40 Cupid Green - Henry 31,Louisa 8,Lydia 32,Mary 58,Mary Ann 20,Mary Ann 11,Matthew 60,Sophia 46 95 Workhouse - William 5 1 Informary - William 17 -------------- So ... Alfred & Elizabeth were not married until after this census date (if this is the right Alfred). -------------- 1871 England Census Name: Alfred George Age in 1871: 38 (on 3 April 1871) Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England Civil parish: Hemel Hempstead Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity Town: Hemel Hempstead County/Island: Hertfordshire Country: England Street address: Bennetts end Condition as to marriage: married Education: Employment status: Occupation: laborer Source information: RG10/1387 Registration district: Hemel Hempstead Sub-registration district: Hemel Hempstead ED: 12 Folio: 106 Page: 12 Household schedule number: 62 Household: wife (Elizabeth age 40), daus: Elizabeth age 19, Emma age 11, Jane age 8, Alice age 1 son William age 4 .... all in family born Hemel Hempstead (including wife Elizabeth). ------------------------ So given Elizabeth and Alfred both of Hemel Hempstead, marriage should be there. ----------------------- Ray, you are right about the 1861 census ... I don't have that data. ----------------------- The 1881 census search has provided a couple of mysteries: Dwelling:75 Chalton St 1881 Census Place:St Pancras, London, Middlesex, England Source:FHL Film 1341044 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0198 Folio 44 Page 24 MarrAgeSexBirthplace Alfred GEORGEM49 MHemel Hempstead Rel:Head Occ:Shopman Fanny GEORGEM37 FNorfolk, England Rel:Wife John GEORGE 9 MSt Pancras, Middlesex Rel:Son Occ:Scholar William GEORGE 4 MSt Pancras, Middlesex Rel:Son Minnie GEORGE 2 FSt Pancras, Middlesex Rel:Daur In 1881, the only Alfred George is with what would have to be a second wife. This Alfred George is living but a few houses away from the parents of Alice (Wintermeyer) George. However, the fact that this Alfred already has a son, William, 10 years younger, makes it difficult to place Wm in his household. It is possible that they had different middle-given name combinations. Alfred may have re-married ? Or perhaps the entry for William should be 14 rather than 4. This Alfred is a shopman which is a close match Wm's marriage record for father's occupation of fishmonger and born in the same town as Wm George born 1866-67. The brother of Alfred (William George born 05 Apr 1838) and rather well-off resident of Watford Urban was also alternatively known as a fishmonger, merchant, or shopman in census. Family notes say he owned several businesses/shops throughout the Greater London area. Al Rose http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=butchrose