I wonder if sks would look up a 1861 census if there is one for a John Brown and his wife Emily who were married in Hitchin on 4/1/1860. Also interested in Emily's family ORNANT, her mother was Catherine ORNANT and she was born in Ickleford. Emily also had a sister Mary aged 22 on the 1881census. I do not know of the husband of Catherine. On the 1881 census Catherine and Mary were living next door to John and Emily Brown in Old Park Road Hitchin. Thanks in advance Eunice - Australia

Hello Eunice, Could this be your John & Emily in the 1861 of Hitchin: PRO Ref: RG9/818, folio 50, page 12 Schedule 63, Lyles's Row John BROWN Head Mar 22 Gardener Hertfordsh Hitchin Emily do Wife Mar 20 Straw Plaiter do Ickleford Henry do Son 1 do Hitchin And could this be Catherine in the 1861 of Hitchin: PRO Ref: RG9/818, folio 87, page 6/7 Schedule 31, Barnwells Yard Catherine ORNENT Head Un? 46 Straw Plaiter Herts Ickleford Alfred do Son Un 17 Ag Lab do do Mary do Daur Un 12 Straw Plaiter do Hitchin I wasn't sure whether Catherine was down as unmarried, so I checked my 1851 census of Hitchin and here is the entry for that: PRO Ref: HO107/1710, folio 42, page 10 Schedule 39, Bancroft Street Catherine ORNENT Head U 36 Straw Plaiter Herts Ickleford Eliza do Sister U 22 do do do George SPRIGGINS Son U 11 Foot boy do do Emily ORNENT Daur U 10 Straw Plaiter do do Alfred do Son U 7 Infant do do Mariam do Daur U 2 do do Hitchin And here are both John and family and Catherine and John's mother on the same page in the 1871 of Hitchin: PRO Ref: RG10/1367, folio 62, page 14 Schedule 85, Old Park Road John BROWN Head Married 32 Gardener Hertfordshire Hitchin Emily do Wife Married 30 do Ickleford Henry do Son 11 Scholar do Hitchin Herbert do Son 9 do do do Jesse do Son 6 do do do Ann do Daughter 3 do do George do Son 1 do do Eliza ORNANT Boarder 13 Straw Plaiter do do Schedule 86 Catherine ORNANT Head Unmarried 55 Straw Plaiter do Ickleford Mary A do Daughter Unmarried 22 do do do Hitchin Schedule 87 Louisa BROWN Mother Widow 63 Pauper do Stevenage Joseph do Son Unmarried 18 Labourer do Hitchin Schedule 85/86/87 are different households in the same house - three for the price of one!! Hope these help. Janet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eunice Goude" <ozypomeg@tpg.com.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 3:42 PM Subject: [HRT] BROWN >I wonder if sks would look up a 1861 census if there is one for a John >Brown and his wife Emily who were married in Hitchin on 4/1/1860. Also >interested in Emily's family ORNANT, her mother was Catherine ORNANT and >she was born in Ickleford. Emily also had a sister Mary aged 22 on the >1881census. I do not know of the husband of Catherine. > On the 1881 census Catherine and Mary were living next door to John and > Emily Brown in Old Park Road Hitchin. > Thanks in advance > Eunice - Australia > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > encouraged. >

Many thanks for this Janet - yes these are my great grandparents John and Emily BROWN and the following census has my grandmother on - an Agnes BROWN so an unmarried gt gt grandma Catherine hmm.and Jonh's mother.It must have been a big house to hold 3 families. I wonder if it is still there. Thanks again Eunice - Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Booth" <janbooth@dsl.pipex.com> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] BROWN > Hello Eunice, > > Could this be your John & Emily in the 1861 of Hitchin: > > PRO Ref: RG9/818, folio 50, page 12 > Schedule 63, Lyles's Row > > John BROWN Head Mar 22 Gardener Hertfordsh > Hitchin > Emily do Wife Mar 20 Straw Plaiter > do Ickleford > Henry do Son 1 > do Hitchin > > And could this be Catherine in the 1861 of Hitchin: > > PRO Ref: RG9/818, folio 87, page 6/7 > Schedule 31, Barnwells Yard > > Catherine ORNENT Head Un? 46 Straw Plaiter Herts > Ickleford > Alfred do Son Un 17 Ag Lab > do do > Mary do Daur Un 12 Straw Plaiter > do Hitchin > > I wasn't sure whether Catherine was down as unmarried, so I checked my 1851 > census of Hitchin and here is the entry for that: > > PRO Ref: HO107/1710, folio 42, page 10 > Schedule 39, Bancroft Street > > Catherine ORNENT Head U 36 Straw Plaiter Herts > Ickleford > Eliza do Sister U 22 > do do do > George SPRIGGINS Son U 11 Foot boy do > do > Emily ORNENT Daur U 10 Straw Plaiter > do do > Alfred do Son U 7 Infant > do do > Mariam do Daur U 2 do > do Hitchin > > And here are both John and family and Catherine and John's mother on the > same page in the 1871 of Hitchin: > > PRO Ref: RG10/1367, folio 62, page 14 > Schedule 85, Old Park Road > > John BROWN Head Married 32 Gardener > Hertfordshire Hitchin > Emily do Wife Married 30 > do Ickleford > Henry do Son 11 Scholar > do Hitchin > Herbert do Son 9 do > do do > Jesse do Son 6 do > do do > Ann do Daughter 3 > do do > George do Son 1 > do do > Eliza ORNANT Boarder 13 Straw Plaiter > do do > > Schedule 86 > > Catherine ORNANT Head Unmarried 55 Straw Plaiter > do Ickleford > Mary A do Daughter Unmarried 22 do > do do Hitchin > > Schedule 87 > > Louisa BROWN Mother Widow 63 Pauper > do Stevenage > Joseph do Son Unmarried 18 Labourer > do Hitchin > > Schedule 85/86/87 are different households in the same house - three for the > price of one!! > > Hope these help. > > Janet. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eunice Goude" <ozypomeg@tpg.com.au> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 3:42 PM > Subject: [HRT] BROWN > > > >I wonder if sks would look up a 1861 census if there is one for a John > >Brown and his wife Emily who were married in Hitchin on 4/1/1860. Also > >interested in Emily's family ORNANT, her mother was Catherine ORNANT and > >she was born in Ickleford. Emily also had a sister Mary aged 22 on the > >1881census. I do not know of the husband of Catherine. > > On the 1881 census Catherine and Mary were living next door to John and > > Emily Brown in Old Park Road Hitchin. > > Thanks in advance > > Eunice - Australia > > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > > encouraged. > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Hertfordshire FHS: > http://www.btinternet.com/~hfphs/index.htm > >

Hi Eunice, I found John and Emily where they were in 1871. Catherine and family was a different story. Found a possible candidate with the right age and a daughter Mary A born in the right place. Surname is spelt Omens. I went back to the 1871 census and it was spelt Arnant there. I believe this is her. There are no other entries that match with a daughter Mary Ann. In 1861 there is an older son Alfred. Have you look at 1851? I cannot remember if I offered to look at it for you. Images sent off list. Cheers Liz Dolan Eunice Goude wrote: >I wonder if sks would look up a 1861 census if there is one for a John Brown and his wife Emily who were married in Hitchin on 4/1/1860. Also interested in Emily's family ORNANT, her mother was Catherine ORNANT and she was born in Ickleford. Emily also had a sister Mary aged 22 on the 1881census. I do not know of the husband of Catherine. >On the 1881 census Catherine and Mary were living next door to John and Emily Brown in Old Park Road Hitchin. >Thanks in advance >Eunice - Australia > > >==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is encouraged. > > > > >

Thought I would have a quick look for Catherine and family in 1851. Found her at the same address Bristow's Yard Bancroft Street Hitchin. Catherine Orment Head Unm 36 Straw Plaiter born Ickelford Elizabeth Orment Dau unm 22 Straw plaiter " George Spriggins son unm 16 Foot boy msg " Emily Orment dau unm 10 straw plaiter " Alfred Orment son unm 7 infant " Mary A Orment dau unm 2 infant born Hitchin Looks like your Catherine was a single mother. Seems unusual that George has the name of what looks to be his father but not the others. Would be interesting to see if there was a claim made on Spriggins through the parish for George's support. Image sent off list. Cheers Liz Eunice Goude wrote: >I wonder if sks would look up a 1861 census if there is one for a John Brown and his wife Emily who were married in Hitchin on 4/1/1860. Also interested in Emily's family ORNANT, her mother was Catherine ORNANT and she was born in Ickleford. Emily also had a sister Mary aged 22 on the 1881census. I do not know of the husband of Catherine. >On the 1881 census Catherine and Mary were living next door to John and Emily Brown in Old Park Road Hitchin. >Thanks in advance >Eunice - Australia > > >

Hi Eunice, I had a quick look at the IGI for George Spriggins and I think I have found your Catherine (Kitty) and family. John OMENT and Mary NEWBERRY married 18 MAy 1806 Ickelford Joseph 1807 Catherine 1808 Mary Ann 1809 James 1812 Kitty 13 Nov 1814 Phoebe 1816 ALL BORN IN ICKLEFORD Thomas 1818 William 1820 Rachel 1823 David 1825 Eliza 1828 Mary Ann above had a child Emma in 1829 James married Martha - child Rachel born in 1839 George born to Thomas and Martha in 1842 George Sprigings Oment 9 Jun 1835 to Kitty Oment Alfred Oment 29 Dec 1844 I could only see Wm, David and Catherine showing up in the censuses. But then I have only had a quick look under what I thought the names might appear. A quick look for this surname finds William b 1820 still alive in 1901 living in Holwell and seems to have been settled there for some time. In 1861 David OMANT is lodging in Hammersmith not married. In 1871 David is under CENANT still in Hammersmith married to Sophia. In 1881 David is under OMANT in Hammersmith with wife Hannah. Looks like David remarried. Hannah was born in Surrey and Sophia in Berkshire. Alfred born 1844 is in Northamptonshire in 1901. Hope this gives you something to move on with. Cheers Liz Dolan Manly Qld