Hello Lorraine and Kristine, Yes, the Jesse ALLEN I am looking at is the son of George ALLEN and Fanny UNDERWOOD, although the evidence that this Jesse is the father of my great grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN is still circumstantial (Edith Emma recorded in 1881 census aged 5 in household of Emma BROWN née ALLEN, possibly an aunt, who was born Watford. Emma's and Jesse's father both George, so perhaps one and the same; Jesse possibly recorded in 1891 census born Watford. In 1891, Edith Emma recorded as a "cousin" in the household of Joseph and Martha ELSE, also born Hertfordshire, so there's another potential HRT link there, but the evidence will take some collecting). But still lots of question marks. For instance, Jesse's father George is a labourer according to Jesse's birth certificate (1853), but a builder according to Jesse's marriage certificate (1874). There is a George the builder of the right age in the 1881 census, albeit married to a Mary, not Fanny; there is also a widowed Fanny of the right age born HRT, Shenley resident in Acton, which fits with an old photo of her (albeit nameless) we have taken at a studio in Acton. Now trying to work out where to go next. Does your Jesse ALLEN have other siblings, or connections to an ELSE family? Emma BROWN née ALLEN was born estimated 1836, before registration started, so I'll be looking for available parish records (maybe Bushey, or, more difficult?, Watford), and may order the 1851 and 1861 census records. As noted in previous message, I've posted everything I know about the family at http://brazell.net/family/allen/ , so I won't go into all the gory details and speculation here. But two bites within 24 hours is pretty good going for a newbie :) Thanks for your interest and best regards, Paul Brazell Berlin, Germany ----- Original Message ----- From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > Hi Kristene > Yes I have been in touch with you Fanny Underwood was my ggg grandmother > sister. Have you checked the the site Genes United seems a few Allens from > Hertfordshire besides the ones that I have entered. > Lorraine > > -------Original Message------- > > From: KRISGENE1@aol.com > Date: 04/29/05 14:26:00 > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Allen Family > > Hi Paul and Lorraine > > I also have a Jesse Allen son of George Allen and Fanny Underwood. I descend > from Georges brother James Berrey Allen. Would love to here from you and > swap info on this Family. This is the first time I have come accross anyone doing > this family. > Hope to hear from you soon. > Regards > Kristene from down under > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:15 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford > Hi Paul > I have a Jesse Allen born 1853 in Watford parents George Allen and Fanny > Underwood. Would this be the Jesse that you are looking for. > Lorraine > > -------Original Message------- > > From: fh@brazell.net > Date: 04/29/05 08:09:56 > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford > > Dear Listers, > > I have just joined the Hertfordshire list on the search for ancestors of my > great grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN, born 1875 in Battersea, Surrey. Her > parents were Jesse ALLEN and Mary Ann Eliza LONG. I have reason to believe > that Jesse and a sister, Emma, were born in Watford, and that their father, > George, was a builder at some time in his life. > Before I go ahead and order the 1861 and 1851 census film of Watford to look > for the family, I would love to hear from anybody who recognises the family > and perhaps even has more information about them. > I've posted a summary of what I know about the family at http://brazell > net/family/allen/ , if anybody has the time and inclination to take a look. > Hertfordshire is new territory for me, after hanging around Bucks and Oxon > for the last couple of years. I look forward to getting to know it a little > better. > > Paul Brazell > Berlin, Germany >

Hello Paul, Here is the family of George & Fanny in the 1861 census of Watford: PRO Ref: RG9/833, folio 56, page 17/18 Schedule 86, Farthing Lane George ALLEN Head M 57 Labourer & Woodman Herts Watford Fanny do Wife M 51 Charwoman do do John do Son U 27 Labourer Farm do do George do Son U 17 do do do Bushey Joseph do Son 15 do do do do Jacob do Son 10 Scholar do do Jessey do Son 8 do do do Fanny A do Daur 5 do do do Hope this helps. Janet Booth. ----- Original Message ----- From: <fh@brazell.net> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > Hello Lorraine and Kristine, > > Yes, the Jesse ALLEN I am looking at is the son of George ALLEN and Fanny > UNDERWOOD, although the evidence that this Jesse is the father of my great > grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN is still circumstantial (Edith Emma recorded > in > 1881 census aged 5 in household of Emma BROWN née ALLEN, possibly an aunt, > who was born Watford. Emma's and Jesse's father both George, so perhaps > one > and the same; Jesse possibly recorded in 1891 census born Watford. In > 1891, > Edith Emma recorded as a "cousin" in the household of Joseph and Martha > ELSE, also born Hertfordshire, so there's another potential HRT link > there, > but the evidence will take some collecting). > > But still lots of question marks. For instance, Jesse's father George is > a > labourer according to Jesse's birth certificate (1853), but a builder > according to Jesse's marriage certificate (1874). There is a George the > builder of the right age in the 1881 census, albeit married to a Mary, not > Fanny; there is also a widowed Fanny of the right age born HRT, Shenley > resident in Acton, which fits with an old photo of her (albeit nameless) > we > have taken at a studio in Acton. > > Now trying to work out where to go next. Does your Jesse ALLEN have other > siblings, or connections to an ELSE family? Emma BROWN née ALLEN was born > estimated 1836, before registration started, so I'll be looking for > available parish records (maybe Bushey, or, more difficult?, Watford), and > may order the 1851 and 1861 census records. > > As noted in previous message, I've posted everything I know about the > family > at http://brazell.net/family/allen/ , so I won't go into all the gory > details and speculation here. > > But two bites within 24 hours is pretty good going for a newbie :) > > Thanks for your interest and best regards, > > Paul Brazell > Berlin, Germany > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:45 AM > Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > > >> Hi Kristene >> Yes I have been in touch with you Fanny Underwood was my ggg grandmother >> sister. Have you checked the the site Genes United seems a few Allens > from >> Hertfordshire besides the ones that I have entered. >> Lorraine >> >> -------Original Message------- >> >> From: KRISGENE1@aol.com >> Date: 04/29/05 14:26:00 >> To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [HRT] Allen Family >> >> Hi Paul and Lorraine >> >> I also have a Jesse Allen son of George Allen and Fanny Underwood. I > descend >> from Georges brother James Berrey Allen. Would love to here from you and >> swap info on this Family. This is the first time I have come accross > anyone doing >> this family. >> Hope to hear from you soon. >> Regards >> Kristene from down under >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:15 AM > Subject: Re: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford > > >> Hi Paul >> I have a Jesse Allen born 1853 in Watford parents George Allen and Fanny >> Underwood. Would this be the Jesse that you are looking for. >> Lorraine >> >> -------Original Message------- >> >> From: fh@brazell.net >> Date: 04/29/05 08:09:56 >> To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford >> >> Dear Listers, >> >> I have just joined the Hertfordshire list on the search for ancestors of > my >> great grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN, born 1875 in Battersea, Surrey. Her >> parents were Jesse ALLEN and Mary Ann Eliza LONG. I have reason to > believe >> that Jesse and a sister, Emma, were born in Watford, and that their > father, >> George, was a builder at some time in his life. >> Before I go ahead and order the 1861 and 1851 census film of Watford to > look >> for the family, I would love to hear from anybody who recognises the > family >> and perhaps even has more information about them. >> I've posted a summary of what I know about the family at http://brazell >> net/family/allen/ , if anybody has the time and inclination to take a > look. >> Hertfordshire is new territory for me, after hanging around Bucks and >> Oxon >> for the last couple of years. I look forward to getting to know it a > little >> better. >> >> Paul Brazell >> Berlin, Germany >> > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com >

Hi Lorraine, Sound like you mght just have enough data to get a positive (or negative) reading on whether we are talking about the same Jesse. I"ll post low resolution copies of some photos on the web page over the weekend and let you know when they're there. If you need a closer look, I can put higher resolution pics in the email. One of the pics is Jesse's mum on her own (dressed in black, very sad, taken in Acton), one is with my great grandmother Edith Emma and her father Jesse ALLEN, and his mother. Would be great if she turns out to be your Fanny. Cheers, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > Hi Paul > Fanny Underwood was my ggg grandmothers sister. Fanny Allen was living > with her sister Hannah in 1881 in Acton both widows. in the 1871 census Jesse > was living with Hannah in Acton working as her assisant in the Green grocer > shop. Hannah husband Richard Gee died Dec 1870. I have the census for middlesex > 1841 1861 and 1871. Will check my records to see what I can find if you > like. In your email your mentioned that you had a photo of Fanny was > there any other people the photo. > Thanks > Lorraine >

Hello Janet, Thank you very much for the 1861 census entry. I've just discovered that Jesse's elder sister Emma is still in Watford in 1861, together with husband George BROWN, journeyman cooper. RG9/833/052 p09 - Hertfordshire, Watford, Schedule 53, Bridge Place George BROWN,Head,Mar,23,Cooper Journeyman,MDX,Brentford Emma BROWN,Wife,Mar,25,-,HRT,Watford The evidence that this is indeed my Jesse ALLEN is becoming hard to deny. Thanks again. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Booth" <janbooth@dsl.pipex.com> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > Hello Paul, > > Here is the family of George & Fanny in the 1861 census of Watford: > > PRO Ref: RG9/833, folio 56, page 17/18 > Schedule 86, Farthing Lane > > George ALLEN Head M 57 Labourer & Woodman > Herts Watford > Fanny do Wife M 51 Charwoman > do do > John do Son U 27 Labourer Farm > do do > George do Son U 17 do do > do Bushey > Joseph do Son 15 do > do do do > Jacob do Son 10 Scholar > do do > Jessey do Son 8 do > do do > Fanny A do Daur 5 do > do do > > Hope this helps. > > Janet Booth. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <fh@brazell.net> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > > > > Hello Lorraine and Kristine, > > > > Yes, the Jesse ALLEN I am looking at is the son of George ALLEN and Fanny > > UNDERWOOD, although the evidence that this Jesse is the father of my great > > grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN is still circumstantial (Edith Emma recorded > > in > > 1881 census aged 5 in household of Emma BROWN née ALLEN, possibly an aunt, > > who was born Watford. Emma's and Jesse's father both George, so perhaps > > one > > and the same; Jesse possibly recorded in 1891 census born Watford. In > > 1891, > > Edith Emma recorded as a "cousin" in the household of Joseph and Martha > > ELSE, also born Hertfordshire, so there's another potential HRT link > > there, > > but the evidence will take some collecting). > > > > But still lots of question marks. For instance, Jesse's father George is > > a > > labourer according to Jesse's birth certificate (1853), but a builder > > according to Jesse's marriage certificate (1874). There is a George the > > builder of the right age in the 1881 census, albeit married to a Mary, not > > Fanny; there is also a widowed Fanny of the right age born HRT, Shenley > > resident in Acton, which fits with an old photo of her (albeit nameless) > > we > > have taken at a studio in Acton. > > > > Now trying to work out where to go next. Does your Jesse ALLEN have other > > siblings, or connections to an ELSE family? Emma BROWN née ALLEN was born > > estimated 1836, before registration started, so I'll be looking for > > available parish records (maybe Bushey, or, more difficult?, Watford), and > > may order the 1851 and 1861 census records. > > > > As noted in previous message, I've posted everything I know about the > > family > > at http://brazell.net/family/allen/ , so I won't go into all the gory > > details and speculation here. > > > > But two bites within 24 hours is pretty good going for a newbie :) > > > > Thanks for your interest and best regards, > > > > Paul Brazell > > Berlin, Germany > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> > > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:45 AM > > Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > > > > > >> Hi Kristene > >> Yes I have been in touch with you Fanny Underwood was my ggg grandmother > >> sister. Have you checked the the site Genes United seems a few Allens > > from > >> Hertfordshire besides the ones that I have entered. > >> Lorraine > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: KRISGENE1@aol.com > >> Date: 04/29/05 14:26:00 > >> To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [HRT] Allen Family > >> > >> Hi Paul and Lorraine > >> > >> I also have a Jesse Allen son of George Allen and Fanny Underwood. I > > descend > >> from Georges brother James Berrey Allen. Would love to here from you and > >> swap info on this Family. This is the first time I have come accross > > anyone doing > >> this family. > >> Hope to hear from you soon. > >> Regards > >> Kristene from down under > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> > > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford > > > > > >> Hi Paul > >> I have a Jesse Allen born 1853 in Watford parents George Allen and Fanny > >> Underwood. Would this be the Jesse that you are looking for. > >> Lorraine > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: fh@brazell.net > >> Date: 04/29/05 08:09:56 > >> To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford > >> > >> Dear Listers, > >> > >> I have just joined the Hertfordshire list on the search for ancestors of > > my > >> great grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN, born 1875 in Battersea, Surrey. Her > >> parents were Jesse ALLEN and Mary Ann Eliza LONG. I have reason to > > believe > >> that Jesse and a sister, Emma, were born in Watford, and that their > > father, > >> George, was a builder at some time in his life. > >> Before I go ahead and order the 1861 and 1851 census film of Watford to > > look > >> for the family, I would love to hear from anybody who recognises the > > family > >> and perhaps even has more information about them. > >> I've posted a summary of what I know about the family at http://brazell > >> net/family/allen/ , if anybody has the time and inclination to take a > > look. > >> Hertfordshire is new territory for me, after hanging around Bucks and > >> Oxon > >> for the last couple of years. I look forward to getting to know it a > > little > >> better. > >> > >> Paul Brazell > >> Berlin, Germany > >> > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is encouraged. > >

Hi Paul Fanny Underwood was my ggg grandmothers sister. Fanny Allen was living with her sister Hannah in 1881 in Acton both widows. in the 1871 census Jesse was living with Hannah in Acton working as her assisant in the Green grocer shop Hannah husband Richard Gee died Dec 1870. I have the census for middlesex 1841 1861 and 1871. Will check my records to see what I can find if you like. In your email your mentioned that you had a photo of Fanny was there any other people the photo. Thanks Lorraine -------Original Message------- From: fh@brazell.net Date: 04/29/05 18:39:47 To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family Hello Lorraine and Kristine, Yes, the Jesse ALLEN I am looking at is the son of George ALLEN and Fanny UNDERWOOD, although the evidence that this Jesse is the father of my great grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN is still circumstantial (Edith Emma recorded in 1881 census aged 5 in household of Emma BROWN née ALLEN, possibly an aunt, who was born Watford. Emma's and Jesse's father both George, so perhaps one and the same; Jesse possibly recorded in 1891 census born Watford. In 1891, Edith Emma recorded as a "cousin" in the household of Joseph and Martha ELSE, also born Hertfordshire, so there's another potential HRT link there, but the evidence will take some collecting). But still lots of question marks. For instance, Jesse's father George is a labourer according to Jesse's birth certificate (1853), but a builder according to Jesse's marriage certificate (1874). There is a George the builder of the right age in the 1881 census, albeit married to a Mary, not Fanny; there is also a widowed Fanny of the right age born HRT, Shenley resident in Acton, which fits with an old photo of her (albeit nameless) we have taken at a studio in Acton. Now trying to work out where to go next. Does your Jesse ALLEN have other siblings, or connections to an ELSE family? Emma BROWN née ALLEN was born estimated 1836, before registration started, so I'll be looking for available parish records (maybe Bushey, or, more difficult?, Watford), and may order the 1851 and 1861 census records. As noted in previous message, I've posted everything I know about the family at http://brazell.net/family/allen/ , so I won't go into all the gory details and speculation here. But two bites within 24 hours is pretty good going for a newbie :) Thanks for your interest and best regards, Paul Brazell Berlin, Germany ----- Original Message ----- From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] Allen Family > Hi Kristene > Yes I have been in touch with you Fanny Underwood was my ggg grandmother > sister. Have you checked the the site Genes United seems a few Allens from > Hertfordshire besides the ones that I have entered. > Lorraine > > -------Original Message------- > > From: KRISGENE1@aol.com > Date: 04/29/05 14:26:00 > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Allen Family > > Hi Paul and Lorraine > > I also have a Jesse Allen son of George Allen and Fanny Underwood. I descend > from Georges brother James Berrey Allen. Would love to here from you and > swap info on this Family. This is the first time I have come accross anyone doing > this family. > Hope to hear from you soon. > Regards > Kristene from down under > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "lorraine parfitt" <lparfitt@virtual.net.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:15 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford > Hi Paul > I have a Jesse Allen born 1853 in Watford parents George Allen and Fanny > Underwood. Would this be the Jesse that you are looking for. > Lorraine > > -------Original Message------- > > From: fh@brazell.net > Date: 04/29/05 08:09:56 > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Looking for Jesse and Emma ALLEN, Watford > > Dear Listers, > > I have just joined the Hertfordshire list on the search for ancestors of my > great grandmother Edith Emma ALLEN, born 1875 in Battersea, Surrey. Her > parents were Jesse ALLEN and Mary Ann Eliza LONG. I have reason to believe > that Jesse and a sister, Emma, were born in Watford, and that their father, > George, was a builder at some time in his life. > Before I go ahead and order the 1861 and 1851 census film of Watford to look > for the family, I would love to hear from anybody who recognises the family > and perhaps even has more information about them. > I've posted a summary of what I know about the family at http://brazell > net/family/allen/ , if anybody has the time and inclination to take a look. > Hertfordshire is new territory for me, after hanging around Bucks and Oxon > for the last couple of years. I look forward to getting to know it a little > better. > > Paul Brazell > Berlin, Germany > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== For any updates our info about the status of this list go to http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com