Here is William in the 1871 census of Marsworth: PRO Ref RG10/1390. folio 20, page 5 Schedule 17, Stanhopes End Joseph SMITH Head Mar 42 Farm Labourer Bucks Marsworth Mary do Wife Mar 43 Straw Plaiter do do Frederick do Son 14 Farmers boy do do William do do 12 do do do do Fanny do Daur 9 Scholar plaiter do do Charles do Son 6 do do do do George do do 4 do do do do Louisa do Daur 12 mo (?) do do Joseph is still alive in the 1881 census, so you can look him up in the IGI 1881 census online. There is also the following William SMITH in the 1871 who perhaps could be Joseph's father: RG10/1390, folio 28, page 21 Schedule 104, Upper End, Marsworth Edward BOARDER(?) Head Mar 36 Farm Labourer Bucks Marsworth Ivinghoe Maria do Wife Mar 36 Straw Plaiter do do do Mary A do Daur 15 do do do Louisa do do 13 do do do Elizabeth do do 10 do do do William do Son 8 Scholar plaiter do do John do do 4 do do do do William SMITH Gd Father Widower 75 Farm Labourer do do Hope this helps. Janet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "keith hammond" <ficus@euroweb.net.mt> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] 1891 census please ? > Thank you so much.Do you have the 1871 for william. > > Keith in Malta. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet Booth" <janbooth@dsl.pipex.com> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:03 PM > Subject: Re: [HRT] 1891 census please ? > > >> Hi Keith, >> >> I think I may have found Elizabeth for you: >> >> RG12/1142, folio 47, page 3, Ecclesiastical Parish St Mary, Town >> Wendover, Bucks >> Schedule 17, Wendover Lodge >> >> John W MARKHAM Head M 38 Farmer Derbyshire >> Bretby >> Mary do Wife M 37 Bucks >> Mentmore >> Jack S do Son S 3 >> Bucks Wendover >> Matthew COX Nephew S 23 Assistant - >> Farmers nephew do Mentmore >> Elizabeth SMITH Serv M 30 Domestic >> Servant Cook Herts Tring >> Harriet BONNICK Serv S 22 do do >> Housemaid Northampton >> >> However, I can find neither William nor Joseph on Ancestry 1891 census no >> matter how I search for them and given that Elizabeth (if this is the >> correct one) says she is married, William should certainly be there. I >> also went back on to the 1871 census to check William's birthplace and it >> is definitely given as Marsworth there. I have also looked on the 1901 >> and could not find William or Joseph. Sorry not to have been more help. >> >> Janet Booth. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "keith hammond" <ficus@euroweb.net.mt> >> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:47 AM >> Subject: [HRT] 1891 census please ? >> >> >>> Hi, >>> can anyone please help with an 1891 census for this family ? i am >>> posting them in 1881.Thank you. >>> >>> Keith in Malta. >>> Willm. SMITH Head M Male 20 Marsworth, Buckingham, >>> England Lab (G) >>> Elizabeth SMITH Wife M Female 20 Tring, Hertford, >>> England >>> Joseph SMITH Son Male 6 m Tring, Hertford, England >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Source Information: >>> Dwelling Model Row >>> Census Place Buckland, Buckingham, England >>> Family History Library Film 1341357 >>> Public Records Office Reference RG11 >>> Piece / Folio 1474 / 57 >>> Page Number 4 >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>> For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >>> http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com >>> >> >> >> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the >> message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other >> readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > encouraged. >

Keith, I think I may now have found Joseph Smith for you in 1891. At 1 Chapel Yard, New Town, Tring, Herts Ann HORN Head Widow Age 71 Straw Plaiter Born Tring Herts Joseph SMITH Grandson Age 10 Scholar Born Tring Herts (No other occupants) The reason I didn't find it before is that Joseph has been wrongly indexed as aged 70 (!) So additionally it looks like Elizabeth SMITH may well have been born Elizabeth HORN. Furthermore, I believe, that Ann HORN's age is 71, (it's indexed as 77, but after ignoring an enumerator's mark, I think 71 is much more likely). In that case, I think this is probably Elizabeth with her family in 1871. No 1 County Lane Cottages, West Lea, Tring, Herts James HORN Head Aged 51 Farm Labourer Born Terriers End, Bucks Ann HORN Wife Aged 51 Born Tring, Herts Margaret Horn Dau Aged 22 Born Tring, Herts Thomas HORN Son Aged 20 Labourer Born Terriers End, Bucks Jonah HORN Son Aged 16 Born Tring, Herts Elizabeth HORN Dau Aged 10 Born Tring, Herts (It's correct that only 2 of these show an occupation). Not your original question, exactly, but maybe useful to you ? Alan Fincher Berkhamsted, Herts Janet Booth <janbooth@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: Here is William in the 1871 census of Marsworth: PRO Ref RG10/1390. folio 20, page 5 Schedule 17, Stanhopes End Joseph SMITH Head Mar 42 Farm Labourer Bucks Marsworth Mary do Wife Mar 43 Straw Plaiter do do Frederick do Son 14 Farmers boy do do William do do 12 do do do do Fanny do Daur 9 Scholar plaiter do do Charles do Son 6 do do do do George do do 4 do do do do Louisa do Daur 12 mo (?) do do Joseph is still alive in the 1881 census, so you can look him up in the IGI 1881 census online. There is also the following William SMITH in the 1871 who perhaps could be Joseph's father: RG10/1390, folio 28, page 21 Schedule 104, Upper End, Marsworth Edward BOARDER(?) Head Mar 36 Farm Labourer Bucks Marsworth Ivinghoe Maria do Wife Mar 36 Straw Plaiter do do do Mary A do Daur 15 do do do Louisa do do 13 do do do Elizabeth do do 10 do do do William do Son 8 Scholar plaiter do do John do do 4 do do do do William SMITH Gd Father Widower 75 Farm Labourer do do Hope this helps. Janet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "keith hammond" To: Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] 1891 census please ? > Thank you so much.Do you have the 1871 for william. > > Keith in Malta. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet Booth" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:03 PM > Subject: Re: [HRT] 1891 census please ? > > >> Hi Keith, >> >> I think I may have found Elizabeth for you: >> >> RG12/1142, folio 47, page 3, Ecclesiastical Parish St Mary, Town >> Wendover, Bucks >> Schedule 17, Wendover Lodge >> >> John W MARKHAM Head M 38 Farmer Derbyshire >> Bretby >> Mary do Wife M 37 Bucks >> Mentmore >> Jack S do Son S 3 >> Bucks Wendover >> Matthew COX Nephew S 23 Assistant - >> Farmers nephew do Mentmore >> Elizabeth SMITH Serv M 30 Domestic >> Servant Cook Herts Tring >> Harriet BONNICK Serv S 22 do do >> Housemaid Northampton >> >> However, I can find neither William nor Joseph on Ancestry 1891 census no >> matter how I search for them and given that Elizabeth (if this is the >> correct one) says she is married, William should certainly be there. I >> also went back on to the 1871 census to check William's birthplace and it >> is definitely given as Marsworth there. I have also looked on the 1901 >> and could not find William or Joseph. Sorry not to have been more help. >> >> Janet Booth. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "keith hammond" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:47 AM >> Subject: [HRT] 1891 census please ? >> >> >>> Hi, >>> can anyone please help with an 1891 census for this family ? i am >>> posting them in 1881.Thank you. >>> >>> Keith in Malta. >>> Willm. SMITH Head M Male 20 Marsworth, Buckingham, >>> England Lab (G) >>> Elizabeth SMITH Wife M Female 20 Tring, Hertford, >>> England >>> Joseph SMITH Son Male 6 m Tring, Hertford, England >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Source Information: >>> Dwelling Model Row >>> Census Place Buckland, Buckingham, England >>> Family History Library Film 1341357 >>> Public Records Office Reference RG11 >>> Piece / Folio 1474 / 57 >>> Page Number 4 >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>> For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >>> http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com >>> >> >> >> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the >> message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other >> readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > encouraged. > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Alan, this is such great news your a star ! I wonder what became of william josephs father ? i looked on free bmd and found there marriage 1879 so Elizabeth horn is his mother your a real star words can not thank you enough. Best wishes. Keith in Malta. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Fincher" <alan_fincher@yahoo.co.uk> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] William/Elizabeth/Joseph SMITH, Marsworth & Tring > Keith, > > I think I may now have found Joseph Smith for you in 1891. > > At 1 Chapel Yard, New Town, Tring, Herts > > Ann HORN Head Widow Age 71 Straw Plaiter Born Tring Herts > Joseph SMITH Grandson Age 10 Scholar Born Tring Herts > (No other occupants) > > The reason I didn't find it before is that Joseph has been wrongly indexed > as aged 70 (!) > > So additionally it looks like Elizabeth SMITH may well have been born > Elizabeth HORN. > > Furthermore, I believe, that Ann HORN's age is 71, (it's indexed as 77, > but after ignoring an enumerator's mark, I think 71 is much more likely). > > In that case, I think this is probably Elizabeth with her family in 1871. > > No 1 County Lane Cottages, West Lea, Tring, Herts > > James HORN Head Aged 51 Farm Labourer Born Terriers End, Bucks > Ann HORN Wife Aged 51 Born Tring, Herts > Margaret Horn Dau Aged 22 Born Tring, Herts > Thomas HORN Son Aged 20 Labourer Born Terriers End, Bucks > Jonah HORN Son Aged 16 Born Tring, Herts > Elizabeth HORN Dau Aged 10 Born Tring, Herts > > (It's correct that only 2 of these show an occupation). > > Not your original question, exactly, but maybe useful to you ? > > Alan Fincher > Berkhamsted, Herts > > Janet Booth <janbooth@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > Here is William in the 1871 census of Marsworth: > PRO Ref RG10/1390. folio 20, page 5 > Schedule 17, Stanhopes End > > Joseph SMITH Head Mar 42 Farm > Labourer Bucks Marsworth > Mary do Wife Mar 43 Straw > Plaiter do do > Frederick do Son 14 > Farmers boy do do > William do do 12 > do do do do > Fanny do Daur 9 > Scholar plaiter do do > Charles do Son 6 > do do do do > George do do 4 > do do do do > Louisa do Daur 12 mo (?) > do do > > Joseph is still alive in the 1881 census, so you can look him up in the > IGI > 1881 census online. > > There is also the following William SMITH in the 1871 who perhaps could be > Joseph's father: > > RG10/1390, folio 28, page 21 > Schedule 104, Upper End, Marsworth > > Edward BOARDER(?) Head Mar 36 Farm Labourer > Bucks Marsworth Ivinghoe > Maria do Wife Mar 36 > Straw Plaiter do do do > Mary A do Daur 15 > do do do > Louisa do do 13 > do do do > Elizabeth do do 10 > do do do > William do Son 8 > Scholar plaiter do do > John do do > 4 do do do do > William SMITH Gd Father Widower 75 Farm Labourer > do do > > Hope this helps. > > Janet. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "keith hammond" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: [HRT] 1891 census please ? > > >> Thank you so much.Do you have the 1871 for william. >> >> Keith in Malta. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Janet Booth" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [HRT] 1891 census please ? >> >> >>> Hi Keith, >>> >>> I think I may have found Elizabeth for you: >>> >>> RG12/1142, folio 47, page 3, Ecclesiastical Parish St Mary, Town >>> Wendover, Bucks >>> Schedule 17, Wendover Lodge >>> >>> John W MARKHAM Head M 38 Farmer Derbyshire >>> Bretby >>> Mary do Wife M 37 Bucks >>> Mentmore >>> Jack S do Son S 3 >>> Bucks Wendover >>> Matthew COX Nephew S 23 Assistant - >>> Farmers nephew do Mentmore >>> Elizabeth SMITH Serv M 30 Domestic >>> Servant Cook Herts Tring >>> Harriet BONNICK Serv S 22 do do >>> Housemaid Northampton >>> >>> However, I can find neither William nor Joseph on Ancestry 1891 census >>> no >>> matter how I search for them and given that Elizabeth (if this is the >>> correct one) says she is married, William should certainly be there. I >>> also went back on to the 1871 census to check William's birthplace and >>> it >>> is definitely given as Marsworth there. I have also looked on the 1901 >>> and could not find William or Joseph. Sorry not to have been more help. >>> >>> Janet Booth. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "keith hammond" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:47 AM >>> Subject: [HRT] 1891 census please ? >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> can anyone please help with an 1891 census for this family ? i am >>>> posting them in 1881.Thank you. >>>> >>>> Keith in Malta. >>>> Willm. SMITH Head M Male 20 Marsworth, Buckingham, >>>> England Lab (G) >>>> Elizabeth SMITH Wife M Female 20 Tring, Hertford, >>>> England >>>> Joseph SMITH Son Male 6 m Tring, Hertford, England >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Source Information: >>>> Dwelling Model Row >>>> Census Place Buckland, Buckingham, England >>>> Family History Library Film 1341357 >>>> Public Records Office Reference RG11 >>>> Piece / Folio 1474 / 57 >>>> Page Number 4 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>> For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >>>> http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>> TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the >>> message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other >>> readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. >> >> >> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily >> regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration >> patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, >> family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is >> encouraged. >> > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the > message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other > readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Hertfordshire FHS: > http://www.btinternet.com/~hfphs/index.htm