We are heading to London on 10 June and hope to find time to visit Hemel Hempstead and surrounds to see what sites we can find that were mentioned in the various census documents - Two Waters, etc - relating to our family. Is there a good place to start in the town where we can find our bearings and find maps etc? Regards Libby McMillan Elizabeth McMillan (Working in Samoa until mid May 2009) ail: [email protected] (gets me anytime, any place) On 18/05/2008, at 5:12 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. John ANDREW of Gaddesden - help locating burial and family > (Angela Cox) > 2. Marriage, Hertfordshire (DAVID JUDD) > 3. Re: Marriage, Hertfordshire (Roy Stockdill) > 4. John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial please. > Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks (Angela Cox) > 5. Re: Marriage, Hertfordshire (Roy Stockdill) > 6. Re: John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial please. > Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks (Roy Stockdill) > 7. Re: Marriage, Hertfordshire (Roy Stockdill) > 8. test (Angela Cox) > 9. RC & LDS- Received via another Rootsweb List (Maggie Perkins) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 14:49:35 +0000 (GMT) > From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> > Subject: [HRT] John ANDREW of Gaddesden - help locating burial and > family > To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:02:26 +0100 > From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> > Subject: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken > place in > Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret JUDD, these > details > obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking for something more > conclusive, dates location etc, any details, help or advice > appreciated, > many thanks David Judd > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:39:27 +0100 > From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> > >> Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken >> place in Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret JUDD, >> these details obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking for >> something more conclusive, dates location etc, any details, help or >> advice appreciated, many thanks David Judd> > > Where did you get this from at FamilySearch? I can see no such > marriage in the IGI, Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File. > > I see spurious entries for William Welford but his supposed wife is > shown > purely as Mrs William Welford. However, these are LDS private > submissions with no sources or evidence whatsover. > > The Allen Marriage Index is at the Herts RO but I'm not sure if the > whole > thing is online somewhere. You will probably have to hire someone to > go > to Hertford and look at it. However, if the marriage isn't on the > Allen Index > and you don't know which parish (if any) the marriage took place in, > then > it may be a long search. > > In any case, the details in 1710, or thereabouts, are likely to be > fairly > scant - probably no more than the names of the parties. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:43:23 +0000 (GMT) > From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> > Subject: [HRT] John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial > please. Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks > To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:39:27 +0100 > From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> > >> Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken >> place in Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret JUDD, >> these details obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking for >> something more conclusive, dates location etc, any details, help or >> advice appreciated, many thanks David Judd> > > Where did you get this from at FamilySearch? I can see no such > marriage in the IGI, Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File. > > I see spurious entries for William Welford but his supposed wife is > shown > purely as Mrs William Welford. However, these are LDS private > submissions with no sources or evidence whatsover. > > There is the Allen Marriage Index for Hertfordshire at the Hertford > Record > Office but I'm not if this is online somewhere. You will probably > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:59:21 +0100 > From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [HRT] John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial > please. Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks > To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]>, > [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> > > Well, I think that's the first time I've seen a whole message as a > header > and no text at all in the body of the message! > > However, I can tell you that there is a John Andrew on the NBI who was > buried at Great Gaddesden St John the Baptist on 19 Dec 1800. > > The source was the parish register and the data provider was > Hertfordshire Family History Society. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 18:09:01 +0100 > From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date sent: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:39:27 +0100 > Priority: normal > Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire > Send reply to: [email protected] > >> From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> >> >>> Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken >>> place in Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret >>> JUDD, these details obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking >>> for something more conclusive, dates location etc, any details, help >>> or advice appreciated, many thanks David Judd> >> >> Where did you get this from at FamilySearch? I can see no such >> marriage in the IGI, Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File. >> >> I see spurious entries for William Welford but his supposed wife is >> shown purely as Mrs William Welford. However, these are LDS private >> submissions with no sources or evidence whatsover. >> >> There is the Allen Marriage Index for Hertfordshire at the Hertford >> Record Office but I'm not if this is online somewhere. You will >> probably > > > I don't know what happened to the last part of the final sentence, > but I > intended to say you may have to go to the Hertford RO, or get someone > to go there for you, to look at it. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 18:33:16 +0000 (GMT) > From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> > Subject: [HRT] test > To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > Hope this works > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 20:11:25 +0100 > From: "Maggie Perkins" <[email protected]> > Subject: [HRT] RC & LDS- Received via another Rootsweb List > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > I think some of you will be interested in the following > Maggie. > > "Some Listers might be interested to know that the Catholic Church has > denied > the LDS access to their records. I've posted my thoughts on the > matter to > the Catholic News Service - the source of the following account. > > > Vatican letter directs bishops to keep parish records from Mormons > > In an effort to block posthumous rebaptisms by the Church of Jesus > Christ of > Latter-day Saints, Catholic dioceses throughout the world have been > directed > by the Vatican not to give information in parish registers to the > Mormons' > Genealogical Society of Utah. > > An April 5 letter from the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, obtained > by > Catholic News Service in late April, asks episcopal conferences to > direct > all bishops to keep the Latter-day Saints from microfilming and > digitizing > information contained in those registers. > > The order came in light of "grave reservations" expressed in a Jan. 29 > letter from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, > the > clergy congregation's letter said. > > Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishops' > Secretariat of > Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, said the step was taken to > prevent > the Latter-day Saints from using records ? such as baptismal > documentation ? > to posthumously baptize by proxy the ancestors of church members. > > Posthumous baptisms by proxy have been a common practice for the > Latter-day > Saints ? commonly known as Mormons ? for more than a century, > allowing the > church's faithful to have their ancestors baptized into their faith > so they > may be united in the afterlife, said Mike Otterson, a spokesman in the > church's Salt Lake City headquarters. > > In a telephone interview with CNS May 1, Otterson said he wanted a > chance to > review the contents of the letter before commenting on how it will > affect > the Mormons' relationship with the Catholic Church. > > "This dicastery is bringing this matter to the attention of the > various > conferences of bishops," the letter reads. "The congregation > requests that > the conference notifies each diocesan bishop in order to ensure that > such a > detrimental practice is not permitted in his territory, due to the > confidentiality of the faithful and so as not to cooperate with the > erroneous practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day > Saints." > > The letter is dated 10 days before Pope Benedict XVI's April 15-20 > U.S. > visit, during which he presided over an ecumenical prayer service > attended > by two Mormon leaders. It marked the first time Mormons had > participated in > a papal prayer service. > > Father Massa said he could see how the policy stated in the letter > could > strain relations between the Catholic Church and the Latter-day > Saints. > > "It certainly has that potential," he said. "But I would also say > that the > purpose of interreligious dialogue is not to only identify > agreements, but > also to understand our differences. As Catholics, we have to make > very clear > to them their practice of so-called rebaptism is unacceptable from the > standpoint of Catholic truth." > > The Catholic Church will eventually open a dialogue with the Mormons > about > the rebaptism issue, Father Massa said, "but we are at the beginning > of the > beginning of a new relationship with the LDS. The first step in any > dialogue > is to establish trust and to seek friendship." > > The two faiths share intrinsic viewpoints on key issues the United > States is > facing, particularly the pro-life position on abortion and an > opposition to > same-sex marriage. > > However, theological differences have cropped up between Mormons and > Catholics in the past. > > In 2001 the Vatican's doctrinal congregation issued a ruling that > baptism > conferred by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be > considered a valid Christian baptism, thus requiring converts from > that > religion to Catholicism to receive a Catholic baptism. > > "We don't have an issue with the fact that the Catholic Church doesn't > recognize our baptisms, because we don't recognize theirs," Otterson > said. > "It's a difference of belief." > > When issuing its 2001 ruling, the Vatican said that even though the > Mormon > baptismal rite refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the church's > beliefs about the identity of the three persons are so different from > Catholic and mainline Christian belief that the rite cannot be > regarded as a > Christian baptism. > > Latter-day Saints regard Jesus and the Holy Spirit as children of > the Father > and the Heavenly Mother. They believe that baptism was instituted by > the > Father, not Christ, and that it goes back to Adam and Eve. > > Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald ? vicar general of the Diocese of Salt > Lake > City ? said he didn't understand why the Latter-day Saints church was > singled out in this latest Vatican policy regarding parish records. > > "We have a policy not to give out baptismal records to anyone unless > they > are entitled to have them," Msgr. Fitzgerald said of his diocese. > "That > isn't just for the Church of the Latter-day Saints. That is for all > groups." > > Though he said the Salt Lake City Diocese has enjoyed a long-standing > dialogue with the Latter-day Saints, Msgr. Fitzgerald said the > diocese does > not support giving the Mormons names for the sake of rebaptism. > > Mormons have been criticized by several other faiths ? perhaps most > passionately by the Jews ? for the church's practice of posthumous > baptism. > > Members of the Latter-day Saints believe baptizing their ancestors > by proxy > gives the dead an opportunity to embrace the faith in the afterlife. > The > actual baptism-by-proxy ceremony occurs in a Mormon temple, and is > intended > to wash sins away for the commencement of church membership. > > Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is > disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims. > > "Baptism by proxy is a fundamentally important doctrine of the > Latter-day > Saints," Otterson said. "We have cooperative relationships with > churches, > governments ? both state and national ? going back to the last > century. Our > practice of negotiating for records and making them available for > genealogical research is very well known." > > Father Massa said he is not aware of aggressive attempts to obtain > baptismal > records at Catholic parishes in any of the U.S. dioceses. > > He also said the Catholic Church will continue to reach out to the > Mormons > and carry on the efforts of understanding that have already begun, > especially in Salt Lake City. > > "Profound theological differences are not an excuse for avoiding > dialogue, > but a reason for pursuing dialogue," Father Massa said. > > Source: Catholic News Service" > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE mailing list, send an > email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Digest, Vol 3, Issue 138 > ************************************************* > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. >

Talofa/Hello Elizabeth: Have we met? Or possibly corresponded? Are you originally from the UK? How long is your stay in Hertford? My rellies reside in Sussex and Cornwall but they can meet with you nearby - grin. Your name is awfully familiar. Manuia/Regards, --Manaia ++++ --- Elizabeth McMillan <[email protected]> wrote: > We are heading to London on 10 June and hope to find > time to visit > Hemel Hempstead and surrounds to see what sites we > can find that were > mentioned in the various census documents - Two > Waters, etc - relating > to our family. Is there a good place to start in > the town where we > can find our bearings and find maps etc? > Regards > Libby McMillan > > Elizabeth McMillan (Working in Samoa until mid May > 2009) > ail: [email protected] (gets me anytime, any > place)

Hi Libby Hemel was selected as a "New Town" after the war and has been considerably enlarged and rebuilt to the point where all the seperate places; Two Waters, Aspley, Hemel, Leverstock Green, Cupid Green all now are really just parts of Hemel Hempstead. You might be lucky and find a few streets in the older parts still existing. More outlying areas; Gaddesden Row, etc you should find better. Peter Jarman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McMillan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 11:56 PM Subject: [HRT] Visiting Hemel Hempstead and surrounds in early June > We are heading to London on 10 June and hope to find time to visit > Hemel Hempstead and surrounds to see what sites we can find that were > mentioned in the various census documents - Two Waters, etc - relating > to our family. Is there a good place to start in the town where we > can find our bearings and find maps etc? > Regards > Libby McMillan > > Elizabeth McMillan (Working in Samoa until mid May 2009) > ail: [email protected] (gets me anytime, any place) > >

Hemel Hempstead and much of the surrounding area ( including Two Waters) comes under Dacorum District Council, so their websitemight be a good place to start. http://www.dacorum.gov.uk/ You can get Tourist information in the Civic Centre Tourist Information Point Address: Civic Centre Marlowes Hemel Hempstead Herts HP1 1HH Most of the internet map sites ( Multimap, Google Maps etc) will give you maps of Hemel most of them now linked to satellite photos of the area, to give you some idea of what is there now. HTH Anne On 17 May 2008, at 23:56, Elizabeth McMillan wrote: > We are heading to London on 10 June and hope to find time to visit > Hemel Hempstead and surrounds to see what sites we can find that were > mentioned in the various census documents - Two Waters, etc - relating > to our family. Is there a good place to start in the town where we > can find our bearings and find maps etc? > Regards > Libby McMillan > > Elizabeth McMillan (Working in Samoa until mid May 2009) > ail: [email protected] (gets me anytime, any place) > > > > > > > > > On 18/05/2008, at 5:12 AM, [email protected] > wrote: > >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. John ANDREW of Gaddesden - help locating burial and family >> (Angela Cox) >> 2. Marriage, Hertfordshire (DAVID JUDD) >> 3. Re: Marriage, Hertfordshire (Roy Stockdill) >> 4. John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial please. >> Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks (Angela Cox) >> 5. Re: Marriage, Hertfordshire (Roy Stockdill) >> 6. Re: John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial please. >> Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks (Roy Stockdill) >> 7. Re: Marriage, Hertfordshire (Roy Stockdill) >> 8. test (Angela Cox) >> 9. RC & LDS- Received via another Rootsweb List (Maggie Perkins) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 14:49:35 +0000 (GMT) >> From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> >> Subject: [HRT] John ANDREW of Gaddesden - help locating burial and >> family >> To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:02:26 +0100 >> From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> >> Subject: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken >> place in >> Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret JUDD, these >> details >> obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking for something more >> conclusive, dates location etc, any details, help or advice >> appreciated, >> many thanks David Judd >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:39:27 +0100 >> From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> >> >>> Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken >>> place in Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret >>> JUDD, >>> these details obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking for >>> something more conclusive, dates location etc, any details, help or >>> advice appreciated, many thanks David Judd> >> >> Where did you get this from at FamilySearch? I can see no such >> marriage in the IGI, Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File. >> >> I see spurious entries for William Welford but his supposed wife is >> shown >> purely as Mrs William Welford. However, these are LDS private >> submissions with no sources or evidence whatsover. >> >> The Allen Marriage Index is at the Herts RO but I'm not sure if the >> whole >> thing is online somewhere. You will probably have to hire someone to >> go >> to Hertford and look at it. However, if the marriage isn't on the >> Allen Index >> and you don't know which parish (if any) the marriage took place in, >> then >> it may be a long search. >> >> In any case, the details in 1710, or thereabouts, are likely to be >> fairly >> scant - probably no more than the names of the parties. >> >> -- >> Roy Stockdill >> Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer >> Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: >> www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >> >> "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, >> and that is not being talked about." >> OSCAR WILDE >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:43:23 +0000 (GMT) >> From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> >> Subject: [HRT] John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial >> please. Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks >> To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:39:27 +0100 >> From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> >> >>> Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken >>> place in Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret >>> JUDD, >>> these details obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking for >>> something more conclusive, dates location etc, any details, help or >>> advice appreciated, many thanks David Judd> >> >> Where did you get this from at FamilySearch? I can see no such >> marriage in the IGI, Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File. >> >> I see spurious entries for William Welford but his supposed wife is >> shown >> purely as Mrs William Welford. However, these are LDS private >> submissions with no sources or evidence whatsover. >> >> There is the Allen Marriage Index for Hertfordshire at the Hertford >> Record >> Office but I'm not if this is online somewhere. You will probably >> >> -- >> Roy Stockdill >> Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer >> Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: >> www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >> >> "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, >> and that is not being talked about." >> OSCAR WILDE >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:59:21 +0100 >> From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [HRT] John ANDREW died 1800 Herts. help locating burial >> please. Living in Gt Gaddesden at time of death. Thanks >> To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]>, >> [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> >> >> Well, I think that's the first time I've seen a whole message as a >> header >> and no text at all in the body of the message! >> >> However, I can tell you that there is a John Andrew on the NBI who >> was >> buried at Great Gaddesden St John the Baptist on 19 Dec 1800. >> >> The source was the parish register and the data provider was >> Hertfordshire Family History Society. >> >> -- >> Roy Stockdill >> Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer >> Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: >> www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >> >> "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, >> and that is not being talked about." >> OSCAR WILDE >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 18:09:01 +0100 >> From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Date sent: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:39:27 +0100 >> Priority: normal >> Subject: Re: [HRT] Marriage, Hertfordshire >> Send reply to: [email protected] >> >>> From: "DAVID JUDD" <[email protected]> >>> >>>> Would any one be able to advise on a marriage which may have taken >>>> place in Hertford circa 1710 of a William WELFORD to a Margaret >>>> JUDD, these details obtained from "Family Search" and I am looking >>>> for something more conclusive, dates location etc, any details, >>>> help >>>> or advice appreciated, many thanks David Judd> >>> >>> Where did you get this from at FamilySearch? I can see no such >>> marriage in the IGI, Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File. >>> >>> I see spurious entries for William Welford but his supposed wife is >>> shown purely as Mrs William Welford. However, these are LDS private >>> submissions with no sources or evidence whatsover. >>> >>> There is the Allen Marriage Index for Hertfordshire at the Hertford >>> Record Office but I'm not if this is online somewhere. You will >>> probably > >> >> I don't know what happened to the last part of the final sentence, >> but I >> intended to say you may have to go to the Hertford RO, or get someone >> to go there for you, to look at it. >> >> -- >> Roy Stockdill >> Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer >> Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: >> www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >> >> "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, >> and that is not being talked about." >> OSCAR WILDE >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 18:33:16 +0000 (GMT) >> From: Angela Cox <[email protected]> >> Subject: [HRT] test >> To: hertfordshire rootsweb <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> >> Hope this works >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail. >> A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 20:11:25 +0100 >> From: "Maggie Perkins" <[email protected]> >> Subject: [HRT] RC & LDS- Received via another Rootsweb List >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I think some of you will be interested in the following >> Maggie. >> >> "Some Listers might be interested to know that the Catholic Church >> has >> denied >> the LDS access to their records. I've posted my thoughts on the >> matter to >> the Catholic News Service - the source of the following account. >> >> >> Vatican letter directs bishops to keep parish records from Mormons >> >> In an effort to block posthumous rebaptisms by the Church of Jesus >> Christ of >> Latter-day Saints, Catholic dioceses throughout the world have been >> directed >> by the Vatican not to give information in parish registers to the >> Mormons' >> Genealogical Society of Utah. >> >> An April 5 letter from the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, obtained >> by >> Catholic News Service in late April, asks episcopal conferences to >> direct >> all bishops to keep the Latter-day Saints from microfilming and >> digitizing >> information contained in those registers. >> >> The order came in light of "grave reservations" expressed in a Jan. >> 29 >> letter from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, >> the >> clergy congregation's letter said. >> >> Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishops' >> Secretariat of >> Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, said the step was taken to >> prevent >> the Latter-day Saints from using records ? such as baptismal >> documentation ? >> to posthumously baptize by proxy the ancestors of church members. >> >> Posthumous baptisms by proxy have been a common practice for the >> Latter-day >> Saints ? commonly known as Mormons ? for more than a century, >> allowing the >> church's faithful to have their ancestors baptized into their faith >> so they >> may be united in the afterlife, said Mike Otterson, a spokesman in >> the >> church's Salt Lake City headquarters. >> >> In a telephone interview with CNS May 1, Otterson said he wanted a >> chance to >> review the contents of the letter before commenting on how it will >> affect >> the Mormons' relationship with the Catholic Church. >> >> "This dicastery is bringing this matter to the attention of the >> various >> conferences of bishops," the letter reads. "The congregation >> requests that >> the conference notifies each diocesan bishop in order to ensure that >> such a >> detrimental practice is not permitted in his territory, due to the >> confidentiality of the faithful and so as not to cooperate with the >> erroneous practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day >> Saints." >> >> The letter is dated 10 days before Pope Benedict XVI's April 15-20 >> U.S. >> visit, during which he presided over an ecumenical prayer service >> attended >> by two Mormon leaders. It marked the first time Mormons had >> participated in >> a papal prayer service. >> >> Father Massa said he could see how the policy stated in the letter >> could >> strain relations between the Catholic Church and the Latter-day >> Saints. >> >> "It certainly has that potential," he said. "But I would also say >> that the >> purpose of interreligious dialogue is not to only identify >> agreements, but >> also to understand our differences. As Catholics, we have to make >> very clear >> to them their practice of so-called rebaptism is unacceptable from >> the >> standpoint of Catholic truth." >> >> The Catholic Church will eventually open a dialogue with the Mormons >> about >> the rebaptism issue, Father Massa said, "but we are at the beginning >> of the >> beginning of a new relationship with the LDS. The first step in any >> dialogue >> is to establish trust and to seek friendship." >> >> The two faiths share intrinsic viewpoints on key issues the United >> States is >> facing, particularly the pro-life position on abortion and an >> opposition to >> same-sex marriage. >> >> However, theological differences have cropped up between Mormons and >> Catholics in the past. >> >> In 2001 the Vatican's doctrinal congregation issued a ruling that >> baptism >> conferred by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot >> be >> considered a valid Christian baptism, thus requiring converts from >> that >> religion to Catholicism to receive a Catholic baptism. >> >> "We don't have an issue with the fact that the Catholic Church >> doesn't >> recognize our baptisms, because we don't recognize theirs," Otterson >> said. >> "It's a difference of belief." >> >> When issuing its 2001 ruling, the Vatican said that even though the >> Mormon >> baptismal rite refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the >> church's >> beliefs about the identity of the three persons are so different from >> Catholic and mainline Christian belief that the rite cannot be >> regarded as a >> Christian baptism. >> >> Latter-day Saints regard Jesus and the Holy Spirit as children of >> the Father >> and the Heavenly Mother. They believe that baptism was instituted by >> the >> Father, not Christ, and that it goes back to Adam and Eve. >> >> Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald ? vicar general of the Diocese of Salt >> Lake >> City ? said he didn't understand why the Latter-day Saints church was >> singled out in this latest Vatican policy regarding parish records. >> >> "We have a policy not to give out baptismal records to anyone unless >> they >> are entitled to have them," Msgr. Fitzgerald said of his diocese. >> "That >> isn't just for the Church of the Latter-day Saints. That is for all >> groups." >> >> Though he said the Salt Lake City Diocese has enjoyed a long-standing >> dialogue with the Latter-day Saints, Msgr. Fitzgerald said the >> diocese does >> not support giving the Mormons names for the sake of rebaptism. >> >> Mormons have been criticized by several other faiths ? perhaps most >> passionately by the Jews ? for the church's practice of posthumous >> baptism. >> >> Members of the Latter-day Saints believe baptizing their ancestors >> by proxy >> gives the dead an opportunity to embrace the faith in the afterlife. >> The >> actual baptism-by-proxy ceremony occurs in a Mormon temple, and is >> intended >> to wash sins away for the commencement of church membership. >> >> Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is >> disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims. >> >> "Baptism by proxy is a fundamentally important doctrine of the >> Latter-day >> Saints," Otterson said. "We have cooperative relationships with >> churches, >> governments ? both state and national ? going back to the last >> century. Our >> practice of negotiating for records and making them available for >> genealogical research is very well known." >> >> Father Massa said he is not aware of aggressive attempts to obtain >> baptismal >> records at Catholic parishes in any of the U.S. dioceses. >> >> He also said the Catholic Church will continue to reach out to the >> Mormons >> and carry on the efforts of understanding that have already begun, >> especially in Salt Lake City. >> >> "Profound theological differences are not an excuse for avoiding >> dialogue, >> but a reason for pursuing dialogue," Father Massa said. >> >> Source: Catholic News Service" >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE list administrator, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> To post a message to the ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE mailing list, send an >> email to [email protected] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Digest, Vol 3, Issue 138 >> ************************************************* >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message