Hello Roy, Thank you for your emails - and apologies for not replying to your earlier ones. I'm not sure what happened there as I usually answer all emails to me, but I do have hundreds of emails here and looking back I must have read them quickly but, as they needed an in-depth reply, kept them open ready for replying. However, in the meantime, I tried another search (as this query is driving us to distraction) in the hope that something might turn up. And it has, because as you have kindly informed me, there is no way that Tring and Edgware can be connected as regards to records (when I say records I mean baptisms etc as I know the BMD didn't start until 1837.) Therefore, I now have a new theory. On Family Search William christened 1824 Tring is down as being the son of John Cutler and Sophia Munday of Tring. And we have attributed Charles to being their son too. Perhaps this is wrong. Maybe there is another William Cutler born Edgware who is the right brother for Charles but not belonging to John and Sophia Cutler. I have always suspected this might not be right, but there must be some connection because the canvas weaving business is prominent throughout the family. I wonder if the boys were born in Edgware but lost their parents for some reason and were taken on (and so christened in Tring) by family in Tring? Charles Cutler born 1816 is on all the censuses from 1851 as being born in 1816 in Edgware, Middlesex. He is a canvas weaver. I'm sure someone found out before that he and his wife Mary are on the 1841 census but are listed as being both of the local area i.e. Tring. Hence my confusion about counties. Charles and William married sisters Mary (Charles) and Sarah Ann Bryant (William). Both act as witnesses for each other's wedding. Maybe we have this all wrong. With regard to John Cutler (Cuttler) my contact found he was born in Hemel Hempsted (which is also known as Tring at times on censuses so is confusing) as was Ann Bull but they married in Tring. There is evidence somewhere (can't think where off hand) that John Cutler had an adult christening in 1805 at the age of 60. I am the first to agree that presumptions cannot be made but sometimes guesswork does have to come into the equation as records/archives are not 100% correct in the first place, and names are repeated so often, wills can be confusing and misleading etc etc. It would be impossible for me to go to Tring to check any records (the distance plus my eyes are not good for microfiche) but I am due to go to the London Metropolitan Archives soon so I can perhaps check on Charles Cutler in Edgware. The Cutler tree is immensely huge and my contact and I have worked hard on it connecting it to so many other families and building up a very interesting history. We don't expect it to be anywhere near to 100% right (I shouldn't think anyone has a 100% correct tree - just one error and it can throw a whole family tree out) but I have tried seeing beyond the box and taking into account where people lived, family who live in the same street, and other clues that pointed me to a certain direction. I don't ned to hire a researcher (it never entered my head to ask you to research for me by the way) as I search for other people for the sheer love of helping others - don't always find anything or get it right, but I try. And thankfully, I have found out loads of stuff for people - even members of the SOG - records or snippets of information they had missed. Every little bit helps I find. Anyway, thank you for your comments although the tone of your emails could have been a lot softer. Diana Amateur genealogist, amateur writer, member of the RHS