Hi , this is so good and so clear I wonder if I might pass it on to the Devon list as this is a very frequently asked question , what is a removal cert or a settlement cert , and this is very very clear .........will pass it on with your permission ........ life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sid Jones" <sjones1828@googlemail.com> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Settlement certificate Hexton query > Hello Angela and Roy, > > Just to add a little to Roy's message - according to J S Burn in his > Justice of tne Peace and Parish Officer 1827, the 1603/4 Statute required > the poor "to be sent to the place of their dwelling, if they had any: if > not > to the place where they last dwelt by the space of one year; if that could > not be known,then to the place of their birth." This one year > settlement > requirement had been preceded throughout the 16th c by a three year > period. > > Burn goes on to say that this continued to the time of statutes in 1672/3 > and 1673/4 when, after a recital explaining the problems then being > encountered , it was enacted that "upon complaint made by the > churchwardens > or overseers of the poor of any parish to any Justice of the Peace,within > 40 > days of any such person or persons coming so to settle..........in any > tenement under the yearly value of ten pounds, where any person or persons > that are likely to become chargeable to the parish shall come to > inhabit, for any two justices of the peace ..... ....by their warrant ro > remove and convey such person or persons to such parish where they were > last > legally settled for the space of 40 days at the least, unless they give > sufficient discharge of the said parish..... > > Other statutes affecting settleernt followed in the reigns of William 3rd > and George 3rd with the 40 day rule still in place, but lawyers were > enjoying themselves as lawyers do, questioning amongst other things, what > constituted a tenement, what was the valiue of the tenement and how it was > ascertained.so yet another Act was passed in July 1819 attempting to add > precision to the law and, unsuccessfully no doubt, to take some bread out > of lawyers' mouths. > > So, as ever, no matter how statute law stands, there have always been and > no > doubt always will be sufficient holes in the drafting for lawyers to > question it and make what appears to be black and white to be an amazing > array of greys. Burn himself takes all of 575 pages of small print to > deal > with all the shades of grey in those three ordinary words "Settlement and > Removal" !! > > Sid > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Angela and Roy, Just to add a little to Roy's message - according to J S Burn in his Justice of tne Peace and Parish Officer 1827, the 1603/4 Statute required the poor "to be sent to the place of their dwelling, if they had any: if not to the place where they last dwelt by the space of one year; if that could not be known,then to the place of their birth." This one year settlement requirement had been preceded throughout the 16th c by a three year period. Burn goes on to say that this continued to the time of statutes in 1672/3 and 1673/4 when, after a recital explaining the problems then being encountered , it was enacted that "upon complaint made by the churchwardens or overseers of the poor of any parish to any Justice of the Peace,within 40 days of any such person or persons coming so to settle..........in any tenement under the yearly value of ten pounds, where any person or persons that are likely to become chargeable to the parish shall come to inhabit, for any two justices of the peace ..... ....by their warrant ro remove and convey such person or persons to such parish where they were last legally settled for the space of 40 days at the least, unless they give sufficient discharge of the said parish..... Other statutes affecting settleernt followed in the reigns of William 3rd and George 3rd with the 40 day rule still in place, but lawyers were enjoying themselves as lawyers do, questioning amongst other things, what constituted a tenement, what was the valiue of the tenement and how it was ascertained.so yet another Act was passed in July 1819 attempting to add precision to the law and, unsuccessfully no doubt, to take some bread out of lawyers' mouths. So, as ever, no matter how statute law stands, there have always been and no doubt always will be sufficient holes in the drafting for lawyers to question it and make what appears to be black and white to be an amazing array of greys. Burn himself takes all of 575 pages of small print to deal with all the shades of grey in those three ordinary words "Settlement and Removal" !! Sid

http://superall.webs.com?Domv088u

Hi Roy, Thank you very much for your explanation, I didn't know how that a person could claim a parish as their 'home' parish after such a small period of settlement. I shall investigate further. Angela

>From Weekly Journal or British Gazetteer ( London, England ), Saturday, June 19, 1725; Issue 8. On Sunday last Joseph COLLET, Esq., formerly Governor of Fort St. George, departed this Life at Hertford Castle in Hertfordshire.

On 18 Feb 2010 at 20:36, Angela Cox wrote: > I have a removal certificate for John Paternoster and family from > Hitchin dated 28/02/1781 and his settlement certificate for Hexton > dated 18/09/1781. Is it usual for the parish of settlement to be the > birth parish of the head of the family or are there other > considerations? > Under the Poor Law Act of 1601 a person was recognised as being legally a settled inhabitant of a parish after a month's abode. However, a later Act of 1662 laid the basis of the system for the next 200 years. Anyone entering a township and occupying a tenement worth less than £10 per annum could be removed within 40 days by the Overseers of the Poor unless he/she could provide an indemnity against becoming a charge on the parish. But if he/she managed to stay for 40 days that person obtained a settlement in his/her new abode. A child's settlement was the same as the father's unless apprenticed, which could happen from the age of 7 onwards. Then the place of apprenticeship would become the parish of settlement. Unmarried persons not apprenticed could obtain a settlement after service in a parish for one year. At marriage a woman took on the same settlement as her husband. This is a basic summary and there were other aspects, which you can probably find with a spot of Googling. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi, I have a removal certificate for John Paternoster and family from Hitchin dated 28/02/1781 and his settlement certificate for Hexton dated 18/09/1781. Is it usual for the parish of settlement to be the birth parish of the head of the family or are there other considerations?

>From Daily Post ( London, England ), Tuesday, July 28, 1730; Issue 3387. One John TRUMBALL was lately carried by a Habeas Corpus from Oxford Gaol, to be try'd at Hertford Assizes, where he stood indicted for a Robbery on the Highway; but no Prosecution appearing there against him, he was carry'd by another Habeas to the County Gaol for Surrey, to be try'd at Kingston Assizes for a Robbery in the County of Surrey, in which he stands charged.

Thank you, Peter. Josi. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Jarman" <psjarman@googlemail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:18 PM To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [HRT] Gt. Berkhamstead. > "Great" Berkhampstead is now known as Berkhampstead, on the A41 between > Hemel Hempstead and Tring and approx 20 miles west of Little Berkhamstead. > It has also been Berkhamstead Magna. > > One of the cases where Great and Little are not villages next to each > other. > > Peter Jarman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Josi > Sent: 13 February 2010 09:30 > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Gt. Berkhamstead. > > Please can someone explain to me where Gt. Berkhamstead is/was and its > proximity to Bengeo, Ardeley (Yardley) and Ware. I have found Little > Berkhamstead but cannot find anything on Gt.Berkhamstead. > > Any help much appreciated. > Josi. > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/06/10 > 07:35:00 > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Please can someone explain to me where Gt. Berkhamstead is/was and its proximity to Bengeo, Ardeley (Yardley) and Ware. I have found Little Berkhamstead but cannot find anything on Gt.Berkhamstead. Any help much appreciated. Josi.

"Great" Berkhampstead is now known as Berkhampstead, on the A41 between Hemel Hempstead and Tring and approx 20 miles west of Little Berkhamstead. It has also been Berkhamstead Magna. One of the cases where Great and Little are not villages next to each other. Peter Jarman -----Original Message----- From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Josi Sent: 13 February 2010 09:30 To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE@rootsweb.com Subject: [HRT] Gt. Berkhamstead. Please can someone explain to me where Gt. Berkhamstead is/was and its proximity to Bengeo, Ardeley (Yardley) and Ware. I have found Little Berkhamstead but cannot find anything on Gt.Berkhamstead. Any help much appreciated. Josi. Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/06/10 07:35:00

If anyone would like to find out more about the New River there's a really good audio tour of Clerkenwell that you can download onto your ipod. The tour takes you from the St Pancras station area and through Clerkenwell where there's the remains of the reservoir and river head. It's a really quiet area - more of a village than part of London, with hardly a car to be seen in some parts. A really lovely historic walk. You can also listen to this and lots of other audio tours at http://londonwalks.libsyn.com/ Much, much recommended. Elaine Saunders www.book-about.blogspot.com > >>From Mist's Weekly Journal ( London, England ), Saturday, January 7, >>1727; > Issue 90. > > LONDON, January 7. > A stately Monument is going to be erected at Ware, in Hertfordshire, to > the Memory of Sir Hugh MIDDLETON, a Worthy Knight of Wales, who, in the > Year > 1608, begun the New River from that Town to this City, and finish'd the > same in the Year 1613. There were 600 Men employ'd in this great and > useful > Work, which was indeed thought fitter for a Prince than a Subject; but > the > New River Company are now paying this just Tribute to his Memory. >

>From Read's Weekly Journal or British Gazetteer ( London, England ), Saturday, February 10, 1739; Issue 753. Next Week a late Churchwarden of a Parish behind the Royal-Exchange, who is upwards of 70 Years old, for a Wager of 20 Guineas, is to walk or run from Shoreditch Church to the Crown Inn at Ware in Hertfordshire, being 20 Miles: He is to do it in six Hours, the Bets depending amounts to several hundred Pounds.

>From Mist's Weekly Journal ( London, England ), Saturday, January 7, 1727; Issue 90. LONDON, January 7. A stately Monument is going to be erected at Ware, in Hertfordshire, to the Memory of Sir Hugh MIDDLETON, a Worthy Knight of Wales, who, in the Year 1608, begun the New River from that Town to this City, and finish'd the same in the Year 1613. There were 600 Men employ'd in this great and useful Work, which was indeed thought fitter for a Prince than a Subject; but the New River Company are now paying this just Tribute to his Memory.

>From Daily Advertiser ( London, England ), Tuesday, December 15, 1772; Issue 13098. Wednesday last Mr. CRAWLEY, Farmer, at Redburn, Hertfordshire, having reached his Gun to destroy some Vermin, struck it on the Floor at the Moment he blew in it, by which the Gun went off and shattered his Head all to Pieces, so that he was dead in a Moment.

I have just found these ancestors of my son. I think I'd given up on the London ATKINSONs about ten years ago. Someone found an old posting and made this connection for me. NEVER change your edress! Any additions or corrections gratefully received. Regards, Don McArthur, Johannesburg. Descendants of William Whitley 1 William WHITLEY .. +Mary GOSLING m: 23 Jan 1720/21 in Layston, co. Hertford ... 2 Mary WHITLEY b: 29 Nov 1722 in Hoddesdon 11 Dec 1722 ~ . Great Amwell, Herts ... 2 William WHITLEY b: in Hoddesdon 14 Jan 1724/25 ~ Great . Amwell, Herts Will: PROB 11/975, pr. 17 Feb 1772 d: Bef. 17 . Feb 1772 ....... +Margaret TUCK 3 May 1730 ~ Broxbourne . m: 30 Nov 1750 in Broxbourne, co Hertford [by lic.] Will: PROB . 11/1197, pr. 9 Oct 1790 d: 22 Sep 1790 Father: Thomas TUCK ........ 3 Mary WHITLEY b: 1 Jul 1751 in Hoddesdon 25 . Jul 1751 ~ Broxbourne ........ 3 Elizabeth WHITLEY b: 26 Mar 1754 in . Hoddesdon ........ 3 Ann WHITLEY b: 31 May 1755 in Hoddesdon ........ 3 William WHITLEY b: 4 Oct 1756 in Hoddesdon ........ 3 Margaret WHITLEY b: 16 Mar 1758 in Hoddesdon ........ 3 Thomas WHITLEY b: 4 May 1759 in Hoddesdon . m Lettice Davis, Broxbourne, 9 Oct 1788 ? ........ 3 Lance Tuck WHITLEY b: 22 Feb 1762 in Hoddesdon ........ 3 Charles WHITLEY b: 27 Mar 1764 in Hoddesdon ........ 3 John WHITLEY b: 25 Mar 1766 in Hoddesdon ........ 3 Jane WHITLEY b: 12 Apr 1769 in Hoddesdon ........ 3 Arabella WHITLEY b: 12 Mar 1771 in Hoddesdon . 7 Apr 1771 ~ Broxbourne 1841 Indep, Sloan Sq., St. . . Luke's, Chelsea Will: PROB 11/2223, pr. 14 Dec 1855 . d: Bef. 14 Dec 1855 in 4 Lower Raneleagh Grove, St. Geo., . Han. Sq. ............ +Thomas ATKINSON Cooper, Jews Row, Chelsea . m: 4 Jun 1799 in St. Michael Crooked Lane, London . . Will: PROB 11/xxxx, pr. 31 Aug 1836 d: Bef. 31 Aug 1836 . . St. Luke, Chelsea ........ 3 Benjamin WHITLEY b: 12 Mar 1771 in Hoddesdon

Thank you this information is helpful. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Booth" <janbooth@dsl.pipex.com> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com>; <eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] George Hunt b 1815 Hertfordshire UK > Hello Mary, > > The George HUNT who was born c1815 in Harpenden appears to have lived in > Luton, Beds according to the census records, see below: > > 1851 census of Luton > HO107/1757, folio 667, pages 26/27 > Hitchin Road > > George HUNT Head Mar 35 Bricklayer not Ma Herts Harpenden > Sarah do Wife Mar 35 Straw Bonnet Sewer Beds Luton > Mary Ann do Daur 13 do > do do > George do Son 2 1/2 yrs > do do > > 1861 census of Luton > RG9/1014, folio 133, page 35 > 45 Brunswick St > > George HUNT Lodger Widwr 45 Bricklayer Herts Harpenden > > He is living in the household of Thomas COX, 40, Carter. Can't find him > in > the 1871 census but there is a death registration in the June qtr 1864 at > Luton reg district for a George HUNT which could be relevant - so on > balance > of probability I do not think this George is yours. > > The George HUNT who was born c1815 Hitchin is in the census records below: > > 1881 census of Back Street Hitchin (you can look this up for yourself) > > 1871 census of Hitchin > RG10/1368, folio 61, page 19 > Back Street > > George HUNT Head Mar 57 Gardener Herts Hitchin > Mary do Wife Mar 59 Straw Plater do do > George do Son Un 19 Bricklayer's Lab do do > Harry do Son Un 20 do do do > Arthur do Son 14 Scholar do do > + 4 Lodgers > > 1861 census of Hitchin > RG9/818, folio 91, pages 15/16 > Chapmans Yard > > George HUNT Head Mar 47 Ag Lab Herts Hitchin > Mary do Wife Mar 49 do Wife do do > Alfred do Son Un 18 Ag Lab do do > Selina do Daur Un 12 Scholar do > do > Harry do Son 10 do do > do > Arthur do Son 5 do do > do > > 1851 census of Hitchin > HO107/1710, folio 59, page 4 > Portmill Lane > > George HUNT Head Mar 35 Coal Dealer Herts Hitchin > Mary do Wife Mar 39 do > do > Emma do Daur Un 17 Straw Plaiter do do > George do Son Un 16 Ag Lab do do > William do Son Un 14 do do > do > Alfred do Son 9 Scholar do > do > Selina do Daur 2 > do do > Henry do Son 1 month do > do > > 1841 census of Hitchin > HO107/445/1, folio 30, page 15 > Mill Yard > > George HUNT 25 Labr > Mary do 30 > Emma do 7 > George do 6 > William do 4 > > All born in the county. > > I think you may have got your George HUNTs mixed up here. If the George > HUNT who died in Hitchin in 1886 is your George (presumably you have > corroborated this with birth/marriage/death certificates), then he can't > be > the George who is living in Luton and born c1815 in Harpenden with parents > William & Mary. There are 2 extracted baptisms in Hitchin on the IGI > which > could be your George, 9 September 1818 parents Edward & Hannah and 7 May > 1821 (probably a bit too late) parents Thomas & Martha. > > According to HALS Herts Direct Online Index, there is a marriage on 6 > October 1833 at Hitchin St Mary of a George HUNT and a Mary GOODSHIP which > looks a likely candidate. > > Unfortunately, Hertfordshire is not particularly well served with parish > register transcriptions available to purchase online, so your best bet to > trace back George's parentage would be to hire the parish register film > for > Hitchin St Mary from your nearest LDS Family History Centre to view in > situ > and try to trace your George backwards from the baptisms of his children. > Witnesses on his marriage record may help you to trace who are his > parents. > > HTH > > Janet > > > > >> Seeking info for the following: >> >> George Hunt b 1815 Harpenden Hertfordshire (or maybe Hitchin) died Dec >> 1886 in Hitchin, Herts. Father William Hunt Mother Mary. >> >> Who did George marry? >> >> Mary in Fl > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2677 - Release Date: 02/09/10 02:35:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2677 - Release Date: 02/09/10 02:35:00

Hello Mary, The George HUNT who was born c1815 in Harpenden appears to have lived in Luton, Beds according to the census records, see below: 1851 census of Luton HO107/1757, folio 667, pages 26/27 Hitchin Road George HUNT Head Mar 35 Bricklayer not Ma Herts Harpenden Sarah do Wife Mar 35 Straw Bonnet Sewer Beds Luton Mary Ann do Daur 13 do do do George do Son 2 1/2 yrs do do 1861 census of Luton RG9/1014, folio 133, page 35 45 Brunswick St George HUNT Lodger Widwr 45 Bricklayer Herts Harpenden He is living in the household of Thomas COX, 40, Carter. Can't find him in the 1871 census but there is a death registration in the June qtr 1864 at Luton reg district for a George HUNT which could be relevant - so on balance of probability I do not think this George is yours. The George HUNT who was born c1815 Hitchin is in the census records below: 1881 census of Back Street Hitchin (you can look this up for yourself) 1871 census of Hitchin RG10/1368, folio 61, page 19 Back Street George HUNT Head Mar 57 Gardener Herts Hitchin Mary do Wife Mar 59 Straw Plater do do George do Son Un 19 Bricklayer's Lab do do Harry do Son Un 20 do do do Arthur do Son 14 Scholar do do + 4 Lodgers 1861 census of Hitchin RG9/818, folio 91, pages 15/16 Chapmans Yard George HUNT Head Mar 47 Ag Lab Herts Hitchin Mary do Wife Mar 49 do Wife do do Alfred do Son Un 18 Ag Lab do do Selina do Daur Un 12 Scholar do do Harry do Son 10 do do do Arthur do Son 5 do do do 1851 census of Hitchin HO107/1710, folio 59, page 4 Portmill Lane George HUNT Head Mar 35 Coal Dealer Herts Hitchin Mary do Wife Mar 39 do do Emma do Daur Un 17 Straw Plaiter do do George do Son Un 16 Ag Lab do do William do Son Un 14 do do do Alfred do Son 9 Scholar do do Selina do Daur 2 do do Henry do Son 1 month do do 1841 census of Hitchin HO107/445/1, folio 30, page 15 Mill Yard George HUNT 25 Labr Mary do 30 Emma do 7 George do 6 William do 4 All born in the county. I think you may have got your George HUNTs mixed up here. If the George HUNT who died in Hitchin in 1886 is your George (presumably you have corroborated this with birth/marriage/death certificates), then he can't be the George who is living in Luton and born c1815 in Harpenden with parents William & Mary. There are 2 extracted baptisms in Hitchin on the IGI which could be your George, 9 September 1818 parents Edward & Hannah and 7 May 1821 (probably a bit too late) parents Thomas & Martha. According to HALS Herts Direct Online Index, there is a marriage on 6 October 1833 at Hitchin St Mary of a George HUNT and a Mary GOODSHIP which looks a likely candidate. Unfortunately, Hertfordshire is not particularly well served with parish register transcriptions available to purchase online, so your best bet to trace back George's parentage would be to hire the parish register film for Hitchin St Mary from your nearest LDS Family History Centre to view in situ and try to trace your George backwards from the baptisms of his children. Witnesses on his marriage record may help you to trace who are his parents. HTH Janet > Seeking info for the following: > > George Hunt b 1815 Harpenden Hertfordshire (or maybe Hitchin) died Dec > 1886 in Hitchin, Herts. Father William Hunt Mother Mary. > > Who did George marry? > > Mary in Fl

Hi Mary, According to a family tree I found on Ancestry George (parent William Hunt and Mary Newman) married Sarah Barber on 19th Nov 1836 in luton/Bedfordshire. They had Mary Ann Hunt born 1839-1902 Bedford - she married James Allen 3 July 1860. There are more children etc after this. Regards Diana Re: Seeking info for the following: George Hunt b 1815 Harpenden Hertfordshire (or maybe Hitchin) died Dec 1886 in Hitchin, Herts. Father William Hunt Mother Mary. Who did George marry? Mary in Fl

Seeking info for the following: George Hunt b 1815 Harpenden Hertfordshire (or maybe Hitchin) died Dec 1886 in Hitchin, Herts. Father William Hunt Mother Mary. Who did George marry? Mary in Fl No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10 02:35:00