Hi Jan Lovely to hear from you , but I dont know much at all Thomas Georges brother was born Luton its on the borders of Hertford and London , someone might correct me on this has I dont know the area Now Thomas was a right one , he got my gr? grandmother pregant and left her , she was Sarah Warner , there daughter Harriet , was born in 1842 and lived with her grandparents till they died , on the 1861 census she is working at a pub the Green Dragon which is still there , she married Thomas Cave Franklin in 1864 and lived in Lobble Lane Sarah Warner later married A few months ago I talked my husband into making the 250 round trip down there but the houses they lived in had gone but I managed to see the church they married in and go in the church , The area was beautiful right on the river , I had no luck finding there graves but I was told roughly where they would of been buried Harriet died in 1896 and Thomas in 1893 , I have Harriets birth and wedding cert so let me know if you want a copy , also Thomas Cave Franklin death After Harriet and Thomas died most of the children seemed to stop in the area , but there youngest Lily Georgia semed to have vanished she was very young when her parents died and has it was a farm cottage I expect there where chucked out , so I dont know if she was put in the work house , been unable to find out Have got Thomas on the 1851 census with wife Mary and son George , but I dont think they where married , on the next census Thomas has vanished but his wife ? is with someone else and there son George is with an Aunt Thoms was a Straw bleacher, I think that means he was bleaching the straw for the hats Harriet and Thomas had a lot of children and only a few died , My gtx2 grandfather Thomas Cave Franklin born 1863 (born before they married also have his birth cert ) went to work at Preston Lancs with a group of others all from Herts and met my grx2 grandmother who was also working up there , they later moved back to where my gr2x grandmother came from and had about 16 kids If you want any copies of any of the certs let me know Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries ----- Original Message ----- From: "irook" <irook@eftel.net.au> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > Hi Cassy > > George Brindle was my 3x great grandfather. He arrived in Aus as a > convict, > married and had 14 children. I am happy to share the details with you. > What > I havn't been able to discover is any of George's family in England or > where > George was born, so if George is your Thomas's brother you may have > cracked > a brick wall for me. Would love to hear from you. > > Jan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cassy" <cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk> > To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:33 AM > Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2825 - Release Date: 04/21/10 07:31:00

Hi Cassy George Brindle was my 3x great grandfather. He arrived in Aus as a convict, married and had 14 children. I am happy to share the details with you. What I havn't been able to discover is any of George's family in England or where George was born, so if George is your Thomas's brother you may have cracked a brick wall for me. Would love to hear from you. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "cassy" <cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle

Hi, if you go to HALS and put Potterill in the keyword box , it will bring up 12 marriages and various other instances of the name and also the Settlement of Collin Potterill , from Barkway to ? dated 28 Oct 1772 , ref D/P13/13/3 which you can buy from HALS . There is a marriage of Collin Pottrell ( note the change of name ) and Constance Bentley at Bengeo St Lawrence in Dec 1797 . life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Pottrell" <editor@pyroport.com> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:36 PM Subject: [HRT] Colin Potterill > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone here had access to the PRs for Bengeo, Tunwell > or Barkway? I'm investigating whether the Potterill family is connected > to my own, I suspect it could be given the rarity of the name/variation > thereof but I keep hitting a brick wall with a Collin Potterill. > > The only references I can find to any baptisms are on the IGI, there are > three conflicting records that suggest he was born circa 1772 in either > Bengeo, Tunwell or Barkway. The most promising is a christening record > on 15/08/1773 in batch C072111 which mentions that his parents were > (another) Collin Potterill and Mary although I can find no other sources > to confirm this... > > There are no Collins in my own tree, so if Collin junior's father was > indeed another Collin, I'd love to find out who Collin Snr's parents were! > > Thanks in advance, > > Tony > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Tony, >From Herts Direct Online Marriage Index: 1 February 1765 by Banns at Barkway Collen POTTERELL married Mary PIGG of Anstey. There is also a Settlement record for a Collin POTTERILL going from Barkway on 28 October 1772 which can be purchased via the same site. According to Hugh Wallis's IGI site (all extracted records) there are the following baptisms to this couple at Barkway: James POTTRILL bap 6 April 1766 Elizabeth POTTRELL bap 10 April 1768 Jacob POTTERELL bap 19 January 1771 Collin POTTERIL bap 15 August 1773 Collin POTTERLE bap 8 January 1775 Mary POTTRIL bap 1 March 1778 Thos POTTRILL bap 7 May 1780 HTH Janet Subject: [HRT] Colin Potterill > I was wondering if anyone here had access to the PRs for Bengeo, Tunwell > or Barkway? I'm investigating whether the Potterill family is connected > to my own, I suspect it could be given the rarity of the name/variation > thereof but I keep hitting a brick wall with a Collin Potterill. > There are no Collins in my own tree, so if Collin junior's father was > indeed another Collin, I'd love to find out who Collin Snr's parents were!

Anne, If you can get hold of a copy, have a look at Edwin Grey's Life in a Hertfordshire village which covers Harpenden at the end of the 19th Century. Bowling Alley is referred to often but I can't remember it being the kind of place you wouldn't want to go to after dark. It was quite a poor area though, I think. Here's a link to some more info on the book http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/books/books-0/book0005-cottage-life.htm The road's long gone now. Good luck in your search, Elaine Saunders Author : A Book About Pub Names. www.book-about.blogspot.com

Hi Janet, That's excellent, thank you very much! I am now even more convinced of a connection between the Potterills and my Pottrell line, as the earliest records I have point towards Anstey as well. I really need to find Collin senior's parents now, I'll have to visit HALs and hope a record exists in the Anstey PRs :) Thanks again, Tony On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:55:17 +0100, "Janet Booth" <janbooth@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: > Hi Tony, > >>From Herts Direct Online Marriage Index: > > 1 February 1765 by Banns at Barkway Collen POTTERELL married Mary > PIGG > of Anstey. > > There is also a Settlement record for a Collin POTTERILL going from > Barkway > on 28 October 1772 which can be purchased via the same site. > > According to Hugh Wallis's IGI site (all extracted records) there are the > following baptisms to this couple at Barkway: > > James POTTRILL bap 6 April 1766 > Elizabeth POTTRELL bap 10 April 1768 > Jacob POTTERELL bap 19 January 1771 > Collin POTTERIL bap 15 August 1773 > Collin POTTERLE bap 8 January 1775 > Mary POTTRIL bap 1 March 1778 > Thos POTTRILL bap 7 May 1780 > > HTH > > Janet > > Subject: [HRT] Colin Potterill >> I was wondering if anyone here had access to the PRs for Bengeo, Tunwell >> or Barkway? I'm investigating whether the Potterill family is connected >> to my own, I suspect it could be given the rarity of the name/variation >> thereof but I keep hitting a brick wall with a Collin Potterill. >> There are no Collins in my own tree, so if Collin junior's father was >> indeed another Collin, I'd love to find out who Collin Snr's parents >> were! > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are several hamlets in the parish, viz.: Marford, on the Lea; Gustardwood; Amwell or Hamwell, on the south-west of Wheathampstead village; Bowling Alley, to the south-east of Harpenden, which takes its name probably from the game; (fn. 12) Cold Harbour, a mile to the north of Harpenden; and Kinsbourne Green. fn. 12: In 1581 Edward Bardolph, of Rothamsted, Richard Bardolph, Richard Vause, Thomas Grondwyn, and others were fined for using an unlawful game, to wit, bowling (Westm. D. and C. Ct. R. 14049). Bowling Alley, being near to Rothamsted, may have been the site of their misdemeanour. From: “Wheathampstead with Harpenden: Introduction”, A History of the County of Hertford: volume 2 (1908), pp. 294-297. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43281. Date accessed: 24 March 2009. ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Treadwell [treadwell@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: 20 April 2010 19:24 To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 67 Anthony, can you say anymore about the "ill repute" of Bowling Alley, Harpenden? Many of my ancestors (Grays, Braceys, Biggs, et al, mostly straw plaiters and traders) lived there in the second half of the 19th century, and I had not heard of its unsavoury reputation ..... Anything that sheds light on life there is welcome. Anne Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:08:07 +0200 From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter@health.sdu.dk> Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle To: "eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com" <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <99A7FE47A0698E45B5C289BB5F3C9E458FB2AC8FEF@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is, however, in 1851 a Thomas Brindell, a straw plait bleacher wife Mary son George, at The Bowling Alley (yes there was one and of ill repute) Harpenden. He was born 1822 at Luton Beds. Anthony Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone here had access to the PRs for Bengeo, Tunwell or Barkway? I'm investigating whether the Potterill family is connected to my own, I suspect it could be given the rarity of the name/variation thereof but I keep hitting a brick wall with a Collin Potterill. The only references I can find to any baptisms are on the IGI, there are three conflicting records that suggest he was born circa 1772 in either Bengeo, Tunwell or Barkway. The most promising is a christening record on 15/08/1773 in batch C072111 which mentions that his parents were (another) Collin Potterill and Mary although I can find no other sources to confirm this... There are no Collins in my own tree, so if Collin junior's father was indeed another Collin, I'd love to find out who Collin Snr's parents were! Thanks in advance, Tony

There is, however, in 1851 a Thomas Brindell, a straw plait bleacher wife Mary son George, at The Bowling Alley (yes there was one and of ill repute) Harpenden. He was born 1822 at Luton Beds. Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of elizabeth howard [elizgh@btinternet.com] Sent: 20 April 2010 17:28 To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle Hi, as Anthony spotted there are two entries for George Brindle aged 18, first on 5th Dec 1821 , indicted for stealing on 30th Oct , 5lbs of salmon , value 6shillings,from Clement Bassano fishmonger of Cranbourne St .........and secondly for breaking and entering the house of John Shaw on 19th Oct 1822 with intent to steal and stealing 4 bonnets , value £3. I could find nothing for a Thomas Brindle . There is a family in Lancashire of Thomas Brindle , wife Margaret and several children including George aged 11, this is the 1851 census but you don`t say when Thomas was born nor where he lived, nor the name of his wife ..... life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "cassy" <cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > Hi All > > I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on > Ancestry > ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr > grandfathers a > Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have > altered Ancestry > since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a > George Brindle was > sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , > My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census > (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called > him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son > George if > I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was > living > with another man > Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have > got the right > details on this George Brindle > It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago > > Cheers > Cassy > > > Cassy > List Owner Griffiths , > List Admin BC > Wolverhampton , Potteries > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Big thanks for this Antony , will get some of my friends to check what happened to him there Thanks again Cheers Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter@health.sdu.dk> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > As I predicted George did not hang. The sentence was commuted to > transportation for life. This is seen in the Australian Convict > Transportation Registers on Ancestry and the trial date matches exactly. > He was shipped out to NSW the following year on the Ocean departing > England 22 April 1823. Anthony > > ________________________________________ > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cassy > [cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk] > Sent: 20 April 2010 15:19 > To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > > Hi All > > I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on > Ancestry > ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr > grandfathers a > Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have > altered Ancestry > since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a > George Brindle was > sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , > My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census > (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called > him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son > George if > I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was > living > with another man > Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have > got the right > details on this George Brindle > It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago > > Cheers > Cassy > > > Cassy > List Owner Griffiths , > List Admin BC > Wolverhampton , Potteries > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2822 - Release Date: 04/20/10 07:31:00

It was nice to know he was not hanged got a bit upset has he was only 18 Cheers Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter@health.sdu.dk> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > He survived the journey and arrived 27 August 1823. This record is on > Findmypast. There will certainly be more in the NSW Archives and they may > clarify whether or not he was from Herts. The site seems to be shut down > temporarily but from memory not much is free. (Pity he was not sent to van > Dieman's Land as the Tasmania Archives are both extensive and free). > Anthony > > ________________________________________ > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cassy > [cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk] > Sent: 20 April 2010 15:19 > To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > > Hi All > > I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on > Ancestry > ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr > grandfathers a > Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have > altered Ancestry > since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a > George Brindle was > sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , > My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census > (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called > him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son > George if > I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was > living > with another man > Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have > got the right > details on this George Brindle > It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago > > Cheers > Cassy > > > Cassy > List Owner Griffiths , > List Admin BC > Wolverhampton , Potteries > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2822 - Release Date: 04/20/10 07:31:00

Thanks again Antony , got the census dates mixed up on this one , he must of been a right one Cheers Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter@health.sdu.dk> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle There is, however, in 1851 a Thomas Brindell, a straw plait bleacher wife Mary son George, at The Bowling Alley (yes there was one and of ill repute) Harpenden. He was born 1822 at Luton Beds. Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of elizabeth howard [elizgh@btinternet.com] Sent: 20 April 2010 17:28 To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle Hi, as Anthony spotted there are two entries for George Brindle aged 18, first on 5th Dec 1821 , indicted for stealing on 30th Oct , 5lbs of salmon , value 6shillings,from Clement Bassano fishmonger of Cranbourne St .........and secondly for breaking and entering the house of John Shaw on 19th Oct 1822 with intent to steal and stealing 4 bonnets , value £3. I could find nothing for a Thomas Brindle . There is a family in Lancashire of Thomas Brindle , wife Margaret and several children including George aged 11, this is the 1851 census but you don`t say when Thomas was born nor where he lived, nor the name of his wife ..... life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "cassy" <cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > Hi All > > I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on > Ancestry > ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr > grandfathers a > Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have > altered Ancestry > since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a > George Brindle was > sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , > My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census > (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called > him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son > George if > I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was > living > with another man > Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have > got the right > details on this George Brindle > It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago > > Cheers > Cassy > > > Cassy > List Owner Griffiths , > List Admin BC > Wolverhampton , Potteries > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2822 - Release Date: 04/20/10 07:31:00

Hi Thanks for this , Thomas Brindle was born Luton he got a Sarah Warner pregnant in 1842 , and there daughter Harriet was brought up by her grandparents on the 1841 census Thomas was 29 a Straw hat bleacher Wife Mary, Plaited born Harpenden and son George 4 Cant find him in any later census but his son George was with an Aunt and his wife? was married to some one else no sign of Thomas Brindle , but I did find a Thomas Brindle born London in the 1881 census aged 75 widower , and I did wonder if this was him Thanks again for your help Cassy Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries ----- Original Message ----- From: "elizabeth howard" <elizgh@btinternet.com> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle Hi, as Anthony spotted there are two entries for George Brindle aged 18, first on 5th Dec 1821 , indicted for stealing on 30th Oct , 5lbs of salmon , value 6shillings,from Clement Bassano fishmonger of Cranbourne St .........and secondly for breaking and entering the house of John Shaw on 19th Oct 1822 with intent to steal and stealing 4 bonnets , value £3. I could find nothing for a Thomas Brindle . There is a family in Lancashire of Thomas Brindle , wife Margaret and several children including George aged 11, this is the 1851 census but you don`t say when Thomas was born nor where he lived, nor the name of his wife ..... life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "cassy" <cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > Hi All > > I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on > Ancestry > ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr > grandfathers a > Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have > altered Ancestry > since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a > George Brindle was > sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , > My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census > (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called > him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son > George if > I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was > living > with another man > Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have > got the right > details on this George Brindle > It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago > > Cheers > Cassy > > > Cassy > List Owner Griffiths , > List Admin BC > Wolverhampton , Potteries > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2822 - Release Date: 04/20/10 07:31:00

He survived the journey and arrived 27 August 1823. This record is on Findmypast. There will certainly be more in the NSW Archives and they may clarify whether or not he was from Herts. The site seems to be shut down temporarily but from memory not much is free. (Pity he was not sent to van Dieman's Land as the Tasmania Archives are both extensive and free). Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cassy [cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 20 April 2010 15:19 To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle Hi All I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on Ancestry ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr grandfathers a Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have altered Ancestry since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a George Brindle was sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son George if I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was living with another man Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have got the right details on this George Brindle It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago Cheers Cassy Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As I predicted George did not hang. The sentence was commuted to transportation for life. This is seen in the Australian Convict Transportation Registers on Ancestry and the trial date matches exactly. He was shipped out to NSW the following year on the Ocean departing England 22 April 1823. Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cassy [cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 20 April 2010 15:19 To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle Hi All I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on Ancestry ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr grandfathers a Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have altered Ancestry since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a George Brindle was sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son George if I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was living with another man Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have got the right details on this George Brindle It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago Cheers Cassy Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Even if you do not have access to Ancestry you can obtain the proceedings of the trial for free at www.oldbaileyonline.org and down load the original transcript. He stole 4 bonnets but after breaking and entering then a serious crime. I will look further as sometimes the sentence was commuted and the prisoner transported instead. Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cassy [cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 20 April 2010 15:19 To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle Hi All I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on Ancestry ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr grandfathers a Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have altered Ancestry since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a George Brindle was sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son George if I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was living with another man Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have got the right details on this George Brindle It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago Cheers Cassy Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, as Anthony spotted there are two entries for George Brindle aged 18, first on 5th Dec 1821 , indicted for stealing on 30th Oct , 5lbs of salmon , value 6shillings,from Clement Bassano fishmonger of Cranbourne St .........and secondly for breaking and entering the house of John Shaw on 19th Oct 1822 with intent to steal and stealing 4 bonnets , value £3. I could find nothing for a Thomas Brindle . There is a family in Lancashire of Thomas Brindle , wife Margaret and several children including George aged 11, this is the 1851 census but you don`t say when Thomas was born nor where he lived, nor the name of his wife ..... life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "cassy" <cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > Hi All > > I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on > Ancestry > ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr > grandfathers a > Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have > altered Ancestry > since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a > George Brindle was > sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , > My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census > (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called > him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son > George if > I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was > living > with another man > Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have > got the right > details on this George Brindle > It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago > > Cheers > Cassy > > > Cassy > List Owner Griffiths , > List Admin BC > Wolverhampton , Potteries > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Antony Thanks for this Cheers Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter@health.sdu.dk> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > Even if you do not have access to Ancestry you can obtain the proceedings > of the trial for free at www.oldbaileyonline.org and down load the > original transcript. He stole 4 bonnets but after breaking and entering > then a serious crime. I will look further as sometimes the sentence was > commuted and the prisoner transported instead. Anthony > ________________________________________ > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cassy > [cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk] > Sent: 20 April 2010 15:19 > To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > > Hi All > > I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on > Ancestry > ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr > grandfathers a > Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have > altered Ancestry > since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a > George Brindle was > sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , > My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census > (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called > him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son > George if > I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was > living > with another man > Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have > got the right > details on this George Brindle > It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago > > Cheers > Cassy > > > Cassy > List Owner Griffiths , > List Admin BC > Wolverhampton , Potteries > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2822 - Release Date: 04/20/10 07:31:00

Anthony, can you say anymore about the "ill repute" of Bowling Alley, Harpenden? Many of my ancestors (Grays, Braceys, Biggs, et al, mostly straw plaiters and traders) lived there in the second half of the 19th century, and I had not heard of its unsavoury reputation ..... Anything that sheds light on life there is welcome. Anne Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:08:07 +0200 From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter@health.sdu.dk> Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle To: "eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com" <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <99A7FE47A0698E45B5C289BB5F3C9E458FB2AC8FEF@ADM-EXMBX0AB.adm.c.sdu.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is, however, in 1851 a Thomas Brindell, a straw plait bleacher wife Mary son George, at The Bowling Alley (yes there was one and of ill repute) Harpenden. He was born 1822 at Luton Beds. Anthony

Hi All I was at my cousins and we where going throw some criminal records on Ancestry ,for the family I found one I think for the brother of one of my gr grandfathers a Thomas Brindle in Hertford , couldn't read it that well ,has they have altered Ancestry since I had it , but it said 1823 (think it was at the old Bailey ) a George Brindle was sentenced to hang he was only 18 for Larceny , My Thomas Brindle I cant find nothing on him except for one census (either the 1841 or 1851) where he was living with a woman who he called him wife and son George , but cant find him on any after that , his son George if I remenber right was living with someone else and his so called wife was living with another man Could someone kindly check this out for me please and tell me if I have got the right details on this George Brindle It really gives you the creeps at what they used to do years ago Cheers Cassy Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries