Josi asked:- > Please can anyone tell me if it's possible to get a map of Amwell End and > Ware during the period 1850-1900, if so ,where? Try <www.old-maps.co.uk> It's not terribly user friendly, but you should (eventually) find what you need. Mike

There is a interesting book called 'The History of Ware' by Edith Hunt which has pictures and a couple of maps, ISBN 0 9509259 1 8 This may be worth a look John > From: josibearden@bigpond.com > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 22:04:53 +0800 > Subject: [HRT] Amwell End,Ware 1850-1900 > > Please can anyone tell me if it's possible to get a map of Amwell End and Ware during the period 1850-1900, if so ,where? > > Cheers > Josi. > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/

With permission from David Gobbit from Norfolk List I thought Hertfordshire listers may also be interesed in the following posting. Instead of searching for Norfolk search for Hertfordshire. I did find some interesting wills and other documents on this site. A growing collection of transcripts and abstracts of wills proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury can be accessed free of charge through the Your Archives website hosted by The National Archives (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:Probate_transcripts). At present, out of a total of 433, only 12 of the testators are from Norfolk (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:Norfolk) and 11 from Suffolk (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:Suffolk) but we can change that! I recently added three GOODERHAM abstracts: Godfrey of Redenhall & Norwich (c.1735-1812) and his sons John of Norwich & Great Yarmouth (c.1758-1830) and James of Halesworth & Great Yarmouth (c.1767-1829). After registration and confirmation of your e-mail address, you can sign in and "Create new page" by clicking that link and entering your proposed title (normally starting with "Will of ..."). Before using the Editing screen, it is recommended that you install the PCC Will Bookmarklet created by Dr Gavin Robinson (an independent researcher) and follow his instructions at http://www.investigations.4-lom.com/digital-projects/pcc-will-bookmarklet. The bookmarklet automatically extracts relevant data from a DocumentsOnline page (details of the will found by searching at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=6) and puts it into a template for you to copy and paste into Your Archives. This will place standard introductory reference material in the box at the top of your finished page and will also ensure that it is linked to the appropriate categories, so long as you correctly enter the type (e.g. Type=Transcript) and county (e.g. Cty=Norfolk) etc. It was not immediately apparent to me that any additional notes should be inserted BEFORE the final curly brackets (}}) to get them into the box and, if you have more than one paragraph of notes, each additional paragraph should be preceded by two apostrophes ('') to italicize the text. Other features, such as hyperlinks, are explained in the Help pages. The text of a will is best copied from a word processor - after careful checking of the original image, of course! You don't have to capitalize surnames but I think it usually helps the reader, and Microsoft Word makes it very easy to toggle between cases (Shift F3) or simply repeat the last action (F4). How many PCC wills do you have waiting to be shared? David Gobbitt

William WHITLEY m Layston 1722 Mary GOSLING I have just gotten this marriage, both parties were 'of Widdyall' Which is now Widdall. Does this ring any bells? Cheers, Don.

Whilst reading a very old but undated paper for Therfield I came across the following phrase "going to asshick hall with Andrew Ffordhams bill" Does anyone know of any Asshick Hall in the Royston/Buntingford/ Therfield area please? Or indeed, the Ffordham family? Have also discovered that John GROOM was the constable of Therfield in the first two decades of the 1800s and the post was then taken over by Thomas Lacey - I think they were a local farming family. William MANNING and B PRESTON took over in the 1830s Notable arrests during the first half of the century were:- Probert Hunt and Turtle, which apparently resulted in quite a famous case Samuel Jeff? James Warren Edward Retcher? on more than one occasion. Anyone wanting more details, please contact me off list. On the other hand, if you're studying Therfield, I'd love to hear from you. Elaine

The Fordhams were prosperous yeomen of the area leaving many wills - see will at N.A. of Elizabeth Fordham of Therfield, 19 March 1849. Also Wills at SEAX.   How old is your newspaper? a2a has a conveyance of 2 February 1278. Attorney Andrew de Fordham recorded that Stephen Blakeloke paid Moses de Doggestrete the Jew 24 marks by way of a mortgage.    They would have got Andrew Fordham's bill!! --- On Thu, 13/5/10, Elaine Saunders <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> wrote: From: Elaine Saunders <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> Subject: [HRT] Therfield area To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, 13 May, 2010, 4:33 AM Whilst reading a very old but undated paper for Therfield I came across the following phrase "going to asshick hall with Andrew Ffordhams bill" Does anyone know of any Asshick Hall in the Royston/Buntingford/ Therfield area please?  Or indeed, the Ffordham family? Have also discovered that John GROOM was the constable of Therfield in the first two decades of the 1800s and the post was then taken over by Thomas Lacey - I think they were a local farming family. William MANNING and B PRESTON took over in the 1830s Notable arrests during the first half of the century were:- Probert Hunt and Turtle, which apparently resulted in quite a famous case Samuel Jeff? James Warren Edward Retcher? on more than one occasion. Anyone wanting more details, please contact me off list. On the other hand, if you're studying Therfield, I'd love to hear from you. Elaine Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks to Marlene and Anthony for their responses. My Joseph was the Hertfordshire one not the Cambridgeshire one - I'd love to find where the two sets of Macers connect, I am sure they do. He was indeed the uncle of the Henry William Macer who was in the 17th Lancers, but this was a bit of information I didn't have. Once again, Many thanks, Ro --- On Sun, 2/5/10, Rosemary Williams <ro.williams@btinternet.com> wrote: > From: Rosemary Williams <ro.williams@btinternet.com> > Subject: [HRT] Joseph Ernest Macer born 1862 > To: "Herts" <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> > Date: Sunday, 2 May, 2010, 17:05 > > Listers, > > I am having difficulty finding an 1881 census entry for > Joseph Ernest Macer. He was born in Broxbourne in 1862 and > may be living in St.Albans but not necessarily so. I do have > the other census entries for him. I have tried variations of > the surname spelling, and searching for Ernest rather than > Joseph. > > If anyone can assist I would very much appreciate it. > > Thanks, > > Ro > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Hi Elaine I don't know if it's any interest to you or not but in a book about St Ippolyts, the author Daphne Rance describes a period in 1830 when many of the surrounding parishes were experiencing strikes and riots by the farm labourers. In Ippolyts 24 men volunteered to act as special constables for 6 months, including my probable ancestor William Slater. The following year there was a further riot in St Ippolyts and when the constable John Harpin was called to make some arrests he said "The whole crowd said they would not be taken by anybody. They said I was no constable for I had not got a staff". I was just thinking that the constables would have been kept very busy around that time. If you find yourself in the Ippolyts records I would of course be very interested in any references to the Slaters. Lyla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Saunders" <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:26 PM Subject: [HRT] Parish Constables > Does anyone have any parish constables in their tree please, working in > the period 1780-1840? > > It might be difficult to tell because often the duties were foisted on > them in addition to their 'day jobs'. This temporary appointment might > not have been recorded therefore. Instead, usually everyone in the > village took a turn until the Herts force was created in 1841 (and > possibly beyond this too) > > I'm particularly interested in operational records of the various village > constables, details of their duties or any private forces set up around > the time. I'm building details on the Barnet General Association which > maintained a private police force and helped victims of crime to > prosecute. Their records include quite a few names of officers and > members which I will post to the list when I've transcribed them. > > I'm spending lots of time at the archive, going through all the village > records, looking for details of constables so, if anyone would like to > send me some names, I'll see what I can do in tracing them. I'm already > keeping my eye open for ASHBY on behalf of Nick but any others most > welcome. > > Elaine > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Ro and Sandra, Thank you both so much for your info on your constables. I haven't yet found anything on Broxbourne but am due to go through some misc papers for Hoddesden for 1830-44 which might turn up something. I'll post what I do find but, in the meantime, I'd be grateful for anything you can add to your family legend. the fact that you've seen handcuffs and a truncheon is incredibly significant because I don't know if anything like that survives elsewhere. As for Codicote, this is very exciting too. An 1839 parliamentary report on establishing a nationwide police force identified Codicote as a problem area. The marauding gang of criminals was so bad (and the local constable so useless) that they had to rent an officer from the Metropolitan police to deal with the situation. The report is available for free download from Google books at this link http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=PdxiS9yLHJn00gSEs9XPBg&ct=result&id=E1ADAAAAQAAJ&dq=%22first+report+of+the+commissioners%22+%22efficient+constabulary+force%22&q=codicote#v=onepage&q&f=false The reference to Codicote and its constable is at pg 267 of the Google books version. Any more info from either of you would be gratefully received. Many thanks, Elaine

Hi Elaine I have a Samuel Bigg in my tree, born c1801 in Codicote, Hrt. He was parish Constable in 1833 & 1834, this position being an unpaid one, although he was sworn in at St.Albans. I hope this information is of use to you. Regards Sandra Wilmot Melbourne Australia

Does anyone have any parish constables in their tree please, working in the period 1780-1840? It might be difficult to tell because often the duties were foisted on them in addition to their 'day jobs'. This temporary appointment might not have been recorded therefore. Instead, usually everyone in the village took a turn until the Herts force was created in 1841 (and possibly beyond this too) I'm particularly interested in operational records of the various village constables, details of their duties or any private forces set up around the time. I'm building details on the Barnet General Association which maintained a private police force and helped victims of crime to prosecute. Their records include quite a few names of officers and members which I will post to the list when I've transcribed them. I'm spending lots of time at the archive, going through all the village records, looking for details of constables so, if anyone would like to send me some names, I'll see what I can do in tracing them. I'm already keeping my eye open for ASHBY on behalf of Nick but any others most welcome. Elaine

Elaine, I was handed down a story that one of my forebears was a village constable and that a truncheon and pair of handcuffs were handed down. I have since seen the truncheon and handcuffs, the truncheon inscribed 'Broxbourne' and 'George IV'. No-one in the family can remember who they belonged to. The names I have in the family tree in the Broxbourne area at this period (1820 -1830) are MACER, CLARK, HOW, LOWEN, possibly also FURNESS/FURNIS/FURNACE. I would be very interested to hear if you find anything that connects. Best regards, Ro --- On Tue, 4/5/10, Elaine Saunders <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> wrote: > From: Elaine Saunders <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> > Subject: [HRT] Parish Constables > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Tuesday, 4 May, 2010, 21:26 > Does anyone have any parish > constables in their tree please, working in the period > 1780-1840? > > It might be difficult to tell because often the duties were > foisted on them in addition to their 'day > jobs'.   This temporary appointment might not > have been recorded therefore.   Instead, > usually everyone in the village took a turn until the Herts > force was created in 1841 (and possibly beyond this too) > > I'm particularly interested in operational records of the > various village constables, details of their duties or any > private forces set up around the time.   I'm > building details on the Barnet General Association which > maintained a private police force and helped victims of > crime to prosecute.   Their records include > quite a few names of officers and members which I will post > to the list when I've transcribed them.    > > I'm spending lots of time at the archive, going through all > the village records, looking for details of constables so, > if anyone would like to send me some names, I'll see what I > can do in tracing them.   I'm already keeping > my eye open for ASHBY on behalf of Nick but any others most > welcome. > > Elaine > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Kia Ora Looking at Free BMD I can see a Joseph Macer born Mar Q 1862 at Ware which was the Reg District of Bloxbourne at that time. He may have died in 1863. Joseph Ernest Macer appears to have his birth registered Dec Q 1870 at Ely Cambridgeshire. In 1881 he is with his parents, Joseph & Mahalah at Coveney Cambs. Are you sure there isn't some confusion here? Marlene New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosemary Williams" <ro.williams@btinternet.com> To: "Herts" <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 4:05 AM Subject: [HRT] Joseph Ernest Macer born 1862 > > Listers, > > I am having difficulty finding an 1881 census entry for Joseph Ernest > Macer. He was born in Broxbourne in 1862 and may be living in St.Albans > but not necessarily so. I do have the other census entries for him. I have > tried variations of the surname spelling, and searching for Ernest rather > than Joseph. > > If anyone can assist I would very much appreciate it. > > Thanks, > > Ro > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

No. But if you are related to Henry Macer born Hoddesdon 1866 you will find his service papers on Findmypast. He served with the 17th Lancers in India and Egypt. Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rosemary Williams [ro.williams@btinternet.com] Sent: 02 May 2010 18:05 To: Herts Subject: [HRT] Joseph Ernest Macer born 1862 Listers, I am having difficulty finding an 1881 census entry for Joseph Ernest Macer. He was born in Broxbourne in 1862 and may be living in St.Albans but not necessarily so. I do have the other census entries for him. I have tried variations of the surname spelling, and searching for Ernest rather than Joseph. If anyone can assist I would very much appreciate it. Thanks, Ro Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Listers, I am having difficulty finding an 1881 census entry for Joseph Ernest Macer. He was born in Broxbourne in 1862 and may be living in St.Albans but not necessarily so. I do have the other census entries for him. I have tried variations of the surname spelling, and searching for Ernest rather than Joseph. If anyone can assist I would very much appreciate it. Thanks, Ro

Hi, Is it possible that anyone can look up the BRINGTON Birth records for me please, I am looking for the birth of Mary BUGBY born about 1787 in Brington. Thanking you. Elaine

I would just like to confirm that a place named Bowling Alley is shown on the nineteenth century O.S. maps of Hertfordhire. It is located in the area now known as Southdown, perhaps a mile from the centre of Harpenden. A quick search threw up many old references, but also one much more recent. On a bus enthusiasts website the 351 bus route is noted as being extended in 1954, from St. Albans to Harpenden, via Bowling Alley. This was quite a surprise and it would be interesting to find out when the name changed. Surely not much later than this. Simon.

Dear Cassy, I have looked through all your correspondence on this site as well as your Warner entry on the Wheathampstead site and can see there is a strong case linking you to Thomas Brindle or Brindell who had a son George. However, I cannot see any evidence linking the George Brindle transported to NSW with Thomas from Luton; you say they are brothers but do not mention how you reached this conclusion. Could you please enlighten me? Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of cassy [cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 21 April 2010 20:37 To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle Hi Jan Lovely to hear from you , but I dont know much at all Thomas Georges brother was born Luton its on the borders of Hertford and London , someone might correct me on this has I dont know the area Now Thomas was a right one , he got my gr? grandmother pregant and left her , she was Sarah Warner , there daughter Harriet , was born in 1842 and lived with her grandparents till they died , on the 1861 census she is working at a pub the Green Dragon which is still there , she married Thomas Cave Franklin in 1864 and lived in Lobble Lane Sarah Warner later married A few months ago I talked my husband into making the 250 round trip down there but the houses they lived in had gone but I managed to see the church they married in and go in the church , The area was beautiful right on the river , I had no luck finding there graves but I was told roughly where they would of been buried Harriet died in 1896 and Thomas in 1893 , I have Harriets birth and wedding cert so let me know if you want a copy , also Thomas Cave Franklin death After Harriet and Thomas died most of the children seemed to stop in the area , but there youngest Lily Georgia semed to have vanished she was very young when her parents died and has it was a farm cottage I expect there where chucked out , so I dont know if she was put in the work house , been unable to find out Have got Thomas on the 1851 census with wife Mary and son George , but I dont think they where married , on the next census Thomas has vanished but his wife ? is with someone else and there son George is with an Aunt Thoms was a Straw bleacher, I think that means he was bleaching the straw for the hats Harriet and Thomas had a lot of children and only a few died , My gtx2 grandfather Thomas Cave Franklin born 1863 (born before they married also have his birth cert ) went to work at Preston Lancs with a group of others all from Herts and met my grx2 grandmother who was also working up there , they later moved back to where my gr2x grandmother came from and had about 16 kids If you want any copies of any of the certs let me know Cassy List Owner Griffiths , List Admin BC Wolverhampton , Potteries ----- Original Message ----- From: "irook" <irook@eftel.net.au> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > Hi Cassy > > George Brindle was my 3x great grandfather. He arrived in Aus as a > convict, > married and had 14 children. I am happy to share the details with you. > What > I havn't been able to discover is any of George's family in England or > where > George was born, so if George is your Thomas's brother you may have > cracked > a brick wall for me. Would love to hear from you. > > Jan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cassy" <cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk> > To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:33 AM > Subject: Re: [HRT] HANGING of a George Brindle > > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2825 - Release Date: 04/21/10 07:31:00 Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I came across Bowling Alley when researching the Slough families of Wheathampstead and Harpenden. One family was at this address through three consecutive censuses. The first time (1851) the address was given as Bowling Alley, The Common, Harpenden. A couple of other Slough households lived at the Common. Does this help pinpoint the address? Anthony ________________________________________ From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Anne Treadwell [treadwell@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: 22 April 2010 17:07 To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 69 Thanks, Elaine. I think maybe Bowling Alley was not actually a road, but a part of Wheathampstead Road, now Southdown Road. What was Bowling Alley (and also Providence Place) is now part of a thriving shopping area in South Harpenden. (But it's several years since I've been there, so there might have been further developments.) Appreciatively, Anne By the way, I found (and have just ordered) Edwin Grey's book at https://www.abebooks.com/ for less than $20 U.S.!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:21:11 +0100 From: "Elaine Saunders" <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> Subject: [HRT] Bowling Alley, Harpenden To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <CBF4868D25EC4E7EA11FF57680F4FD87@mshome.net> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Anne, If you can get hold of a copy, have a look at Edwin Grey's Life in a Hertfordshire village which covers Harpenden at the end of the 19th Century. Bowling Alley is referred to often but I can't remember it being the kind of place you wouldn't want to go to after dark. It was quite a poor area though, I think. Here's a link to some more info on the book http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/books/books-0/book0005-cottage -life.htm The road's long gone now. Good luck in your search, Elaine Saunders Author : A Book About Pub Names. www.book-about.blogspot.com Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Elaine. I think maybe Bowling Alley was not actually a road, but a part of Wheathampstead Road, now Southdown Road. What was Bowling Alley (and also Providence Place) is now part of a thriving shopping area in South Harpenden. (But it's several years since I've been there, so there might have been further developments.) Appreciatively, Anne By the way, I found (and have just ordered) Edwin Grey's book at https://www.abebooks.com/ for less than $20 U.S.!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:21:11 +0100 From: "Elaine Saunders" <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> Subject: [HRT] Bowling Alley, Harpenden To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <CBF4868D25EC4E7EA11FF57680F4FD87@mshome.net> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Anne, If you can get hold of a copy, have a look at Edwin Grey's Life in a Hertfordshire village which covers Harpenden at the end of the 19th Century. Bowling Alley is referred to often but I can't remember it being the kind of place you wouldn't want to go to after dark. It was quite a poor area though, I think. Here's a link to some more info on the book http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/books/books-0/book0005-cottage -life.htm The road's long gone now. Good luck in your search, Elaine Saunders Author : A Book About Pub Names. www.book-about.blogspot.com