----- Original Message ----- From: "patricia salter" <ps015p6402@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [Herts] Re: Too many candidates > Hi Robert > This is indeed very good advice and I have also been doing this with > several of my families, and I thoroughly recommend this type of research. > Another good source are memorial inscriptions which sometimes tell you > about several family members being buried in the same plot. As for > original parish records, again you are right, I am in the process of > transcribing Holwell parish registers and as I transcribe I check with > IGI, on the whole I find IGI pretty accurate in most cases, but there are > cases where the names have been totally mistranscribed, and as you say > there is more information in the actual register, ie John Smith, baptised > in X parish but born in XX parish. It often happens that you have a John > Smith married to a Jane Doe, and somewhere else a Bob Smith married to a > Mary Brown, and after a bit of lateral research you find that John and Bob > are brothers, then go back further on that line and you might find even > more marriages within your family lines. I havent explained it very > well, but basically the idea is to think laterally. > Regards > Patti > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <RbrtHillier@aol.com> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:05 PM > Subject: [Herts] Re: Too many candidates > > >> The reason behind the Hertfordshire BIGG Project is exactly the problem >> that >> Anne describes - too many candidates . One way to go is to try and >> unscramble >> all your candidates' families , not restricting your research to the >> candidates themselves . >> >> You may well find then that a witness name at a wedding sorts out your >> problem . Eg , suppose all your 3 Sarah GRISTWOODs have brothers and >> sisters called >> John , Thomas , Mary , Bessie etc , but you only find one brother >> Ebenezer >> Gristwood and he turns up as a witness to the marriage of your Sarah - >> he's >> much more likely to be the (younger , usually ) brother rather than a >> cousin of >> your Sarah or unrelated . It's circumstantial but pretty good - and >> perhaps >> can be corroborated with something else that's not proof positive but >> plausible >> . I've also found examples where my candidate was witness to the wedding >> of >> an older brother/sister , enabling that candidate either to be struck off >> my >> list or confirmed as my target person . >> >> Burials are a great source for unscrambling , once you've got some idea >> of >> the possible candidates' families , especially early records which tend >> to be a >> bit more personalised , adding details like "son of John Bloggs jun. " , >> from >> which you may infer that there were probably two generations of John >> Bloggs >> alive at the same time . Another example , wife of John Bloggs and child >> of >> John Bloggs are buried at about the same time and a John Bloggs marries >> soon >> after - it's probably the case that John's wife died following >> childbirth , the >> child died too and John remarried quickly because his surviving children >> needed a mother as soon as possible . Again , no proof , but pretty >> reliable . >> Looking only at baptisms and marriages won't give you this . Later >> burials ( 19th >> century corporation cemeteries rather than churchyard) might have good >> records still available of who bought burial plots and who is buried in >> them over >> a 25 to 50 year period - usually a good guide to closeness of >> relationship . >> >> There is more information in the parish records than in the IGI and VRI - >> these are only finding guides . With too many candidates you need all the >> data >> you can get - censuses , wills , witnesses at weddings , settlement >> orders , >> accounts of the Overseers of the Poor . >> >> I'm sorry I can't help with Anne's problem : perhaps it's time for a >> Hertfordshire GRISTWOOD Project ? <grin> >> >> Best wishes to all listers, >> Robert Hillier, >> Poole >> Dorset >> >> >> ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >> http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com >> >> >> > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > >

If you find an Ivinghoe (Bucks) connection, let me know! Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- >I seem to recall some people on the list were researching the FOUNTAIN > surname when I was subscribed some time ago. > > I am trying to track down my ggg grandmother Hannah Elizabeth FUSEDALE nee > FOUNTAIN who died in 1833 aged 38. She was living in Shenley when she > died, > but she and John FUSEDALE married in Christchurch Spitalfields in 1815. I > searched the 1861 census in the hope of finding a male or unmarried female > of a similar age who might possibly be a sibling, and found a George > William FOUNTAIN who appears to have been born in Enfield. I know it's not > Hertfordshire, but does anyone have a branch of Fountains in Enfield? >

Sorry, this should have read ANDERSON! Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [Herts] ANDREWS of Rickmansworth > Don't forget to include Andrews: there is good evidence of interchange of > these names in Herts!

To put it bluntly it wants more money and I think its a fiddle My sister has Ancestry and apart from the census its really no use , also there are allot of mistakes in it , and when you see the original census it gives you a different spelling to the one they have subscribled, so you cant find yours I was after a Whitehouse family and they had it down has Whitcum , also a Dunn family down has Atkins Now looking for a Hugh Hughes on the 1871 born Middlesex and I cant find him at all so heaven knows what he is under Cheers Cassy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Goude" <prgdesgn@tpg.com.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:16 PM Subject: [Herts] Re: ancestry.com > > > > > Was it someone on this list that said they had joined ancestry.com and > found it a good site as I just did and have the 14 day free trial and it > wont show me anything unless I upgrade - WHY IS THIS > Regards > Eunice - Australia > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the > message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other > readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 21/03/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 21/03/2005

Hi Brenda Did you forget to type your message? Patti ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Jones" <BRENDAJJONES@xtra.co.nz> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Herts] Re: Too many candidates > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "patricia salter" <ps015p6402@blueyonder.co.uk> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Herts] Re: Too many candidates >

Hi Robert This is indeed very good advice and I have also been doing this with several of my families, and I thoroughly recommend this type of research. Another good source are memorial inscriptions which sometimes tell you about several family members being buried in the same plot. As for original parish records, again you are right, I am in the process of transcribing Holwell parish registers and as I transcribe I check with IGI, on the whole I find IGI pretty accurate in most cases, but there are cases where the names have been totally mistranscribed, and as you say there is more information in the actual register, ie John Smith, baptised in X parish but born in XX parish. It often happens that you have a John Smith married to a Jane Doe, and somewhere else a Bob Smith married to a Mary Brown, and after a bit of lateral research you find that John and Bob are brothers, then go back further on that line and you might find even more marriages within your family lines. I havent explained it very well, but basically the idea is to think laterally. Regards Patti ----- Original Message ----- From: <RbrtHillier@aol.com> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:05 PM Subject: [Herts] Re: Too many candidates > The reason behind the Hertfordshire BIGG Project is exactly the problem > that > Anne describes - too many candidates . One way to go is to try and > unscramble > all your candidates' families , not restricting your research to the > candidates themselves . > > You may well find then that a witness name at a wedding sorts out your > problem . Eg , suppose all your 3 Sarah GRISTWOODs have brothers and > sisters called > John , Thomas , Mary , Bessie etc , but you only find one brother > Ebenezer > Gristwood and he turns up as a witness to the marriage of your Sarah - > he's > much more likely to be the (younger , usually ) brother rather than a > cousin of > your Sarah or unrelated . It's circumstantial but pretty good - and > perhaps > can be corroborated with something else that's not proof positive but > plausible > . I've also found examples where my candidate was witness to the wedding > of > an older brother/sister , enabling that candidate either to be struck off > my > list or confirmed as my target person . > > Burials are a great source for unscrambling , once you've got some idea of > the possible candidates' families , especially early records which tend > to be a > bit more personalised , adding details like "son of John Bloggs jun. " , > from > which you may infer that there were probably two generations of John > Bloggs > alive at the same time . Another example , wife of John Bloggs and child > of > John Bloggs are buried at about the same time and a John Bloggs marries > soon > after - it's probably the case that John's wife died following childbirth > , the > child died too and John remarried quickly because his surviving children > needed a mother as soon as possible . Again , no proof , but pretty > reliable . > Looking only at baptisms and marriages won't give you this . Later burials > ( 19th > century corporation cemeteries rather than churchyard) might have good > records still available of who bought burial plots and who is buried in > them over > a 25 to 50 year period - usually a good guide to closeness of relationship > . > > There is more information in the parish records than in the IGI and VRI - > these are only finding guides . With too many candidates you need all the > data > you can get - censuses , wills , witnesses at weddings , settlement > orders , > accounts of the Overseers of the Poor . > > I'm sorry I can't help with Anne's problem : perhaps it's time for a > Hertfordshire GRISTWOOD Project ? <grin> > > Best wishes to all listers, > Robert Hillier, > Poole > Dorset > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > > >

Thanks to everyone on the list for their help in trying to locate my WADHAMS family place of rest. It appears that they do not wish to be found at the moment. I shall continue to keep searching as new records become available but for the meantime I will be unsubscribing. Thanks once again Bev Wadhams

I seem to recall some people on the list were researching the FOUNTAIN surname when I was subscribed some time ago. I am trying to track down my ggg grandmother Hannah Elizabeth FUSEDALE nee FOUNTAIN who died in 1833 aged 38. She was living in Shenley when she died, but she and John FUSEDALE married in Christchurch Spitalfields in 1815. I searched the 1861 census in the hope of finding a male or unmarried female of a similar age who might possibly be a sibling, and found a George William FOUNTAIN who appears to have been born in Enfield. I know it's not Hertfordshire, but does anyone have a branch of Fountains in Enfield? Hannah and John named their first child George William, and also gave another child the middle name of Lloyd, which crops up 6 times as a middle name for Fountains in Edmonton, Uxbridge and Brentford RDs, so I'm hoping that's a clue! Regards, Judith Gibbons Coventry, UK

Hi Jim, You can order online here: http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ Cheers Wendy Perth West Aust Jim & Eleanor Brennan wrote: >good morning, I need to order a death certificate for a death that occured in Watford, what address should I use. > >Jim Brennan >Corunna, Ont. Can. > > >==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >To POST a message to this list use the address: > >eng-hertfordshire-l@rootsweb.com > >2) To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send a message to: > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in mail mode i.e. receiving >the messages individually or want them individually) or > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in digest mode i.e. >receiving a digest of multiple messages or want this mode) > >In the BODY of the message (not the subject line) type the word subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > >

Hi Pam, On 1871 Census looks like she is Mary J G Saunders. Sending image offlist. Cheers Wendy Jivexx@aol.com wrote: >Hi > >Can anyone help me with my brick wall. > >My G grandfather Nelson SAUNDERS born Islington, Middlesex 1841 married >Grace ????? from Bingham, Nottingham. She was born 1846. I think they married >about 1864 as there 1st child was born at Holloway, Middlesex in 1865. I >can find no record of this marriage and i am desperately after her maiden name. > I have tried for about 2 years now to find this info. > >Pam Culver >UK > > >==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >To POST a message to this list use the address: > >eng-hertfordshire-l@rootsweb.com > >2) To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send a message to: > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in mail mode i.e. receiving >the messages individually or want them individually) or > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in digest mode i.e. >receiving a digest of multiple messages or want this mode) > >In the BODY of the message (not the subject line) type the word subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > >

Hello all, I have been given information that the Village my relatives are from in Essex is included in the 1861 Census for Herfordshire (Royston area). Could therefore some kind person with access to the 1861 Census please look for the following people all from the Village of GREAT CHISHILL DINAH PITTY (72) - 812/94 JOSIAH PITTY (52) In 1851 living in High Street, Great Chishill NATHANIAL PITTY (76) 812/95 MATILDA PITTY (50) GEORGE PITTY (23) In 1851 living in No 2 Wilkes Terrace, Great Chishill NATHAN PITTY (26) 812/99 ELIZA PITTY (24) JOSEPH PITTY (4) JAMES PITTY (2) Hoping somebody can help. Thanks Lynne Goote Queensland Australia.

Again, my regular appeal for any sighting of Richard SNELLING, born c 1760 (estimated from his alleged age at burial in Hemel Hempstead Herts in 1827) He married at St. Marylebone, London in 1788, and then spent the rest of his life in Hemel Hempstead and nearby Great Gaddesden. The only birth near that date I can trace is that of Richard Snelling at Cookham, Berks, in 1760: is anyone researching that family? Donald Massey

While checking on my BRADSHAW family on the 1901 census (the free bit). I came across the following. Irad BRADSHAW age 60 born 1841 Essex Brangling Emma BRADSHAW aged 50 born 1851 Herts Chealernut William BRADSHAW aged 26 born 1875 Herts Chealernut I have on my tree Irad BRADSHAW born 1829 Herts Braughing Emma (nee DERBRIDGE) BRADSHAW born 1836 Herts Cheshunt William BRADSHAW born 1865 Herts Hoddesdon William and Emma were married in 1855. Could there really be such a discrepancy in ages for the same family? Cheers Judy

Hi Jim As long as the death occurred in watford you can write to the registrey office in Watford...they are very prompt at dealing with requests from the public and I have to say that i have been thrilled by the service offered at Watford...their address is... 36 Clarendon Road, Watford, WD1 1JP. Tel: 01923 231302. I am not sure if they take CC's over the phone... Kind regards Tezz >>good morning, I need to order a death certificate for a death that occured >>in Watford, what address should I use. > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Hi, I am searching for any family of my grgrgrgrgrgrgrandfather's 3 brothers and 1 sister. They were John b1706, James b1710, Edward b1713 & Annie b1716. My x6 gr grandfather was William GAYLOR b1719. Thanks for ANY help. Helen New Zealand

The reason behind the Hertfordshire BIGG Project is exactly the problem that Anne describes - too many candidates . One way to go is to try and unscramble all your candidates' families , not restricting your research to the candidates themselves . You may well find then that a witness name at a wedding sorts out your problem . Eg , suppose all your 3 Sarah GRISTWOODs have brothers and sisters called John , Thomas , Mary , Bessie etc , but you only find one brother Ebenezer Gristwood and he turns up as a witness to the marriage of your Sarah - he's much more likely to be the (younger , usually ) brother rather than a cousin of your Sarah or unrelated . It's circumstantial but pretty good - and perhaps can be corroborated with something else that's not proof positive but plausible . I've also found examples where my candidate was witness to the wedding of an older brother/sister , enabling that candidate either to be struck off my list or confirmed as my target person . Burials are a great source for unscrambling , once you've got some idea of the possible candidates' families , especially early records which tend to be a bit more personalised , adding details like "son of John Bloggs jun. " , from which you may infer that there were probably two generations of John Bloggs alive at the same time . Another example , wife of John Bloggs and child of John Bloggs are buried at about the same time and a John Bloggs marries soon after - it's probably the case that John's wife died following childbirth , the child died too and John remarried quickly because his surviving children needed a mother as soon as possible . Again , no proof , but pretty reliable . Looking only at baptisms and marriages won't give you this . Later burials ( 19th century corporation cemeteries rather than churchyard) might have good records still available of who bought burial plots and who is buried in them over a 25 to 50 year period - usually a good guide to closeness of relationship . There is more information in the parish records than in the IGI and VRI - these are only finding guides . With too many candidates you need all the data you can get - censuses , wills , witnesses at weddings , settlement orders , accounts of the Overseers of the Poor . I'm sorry I can't help with Anne's problem : perhaps it's time for a Hertfordshire GRISTWOOD Project ? <grin> Best wishes to all listers, Robert Hillier, Poole Dorset

Don't forget to include Andrews: there is good evidence of interchange of these names in Herts! Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- > William ANDREWS is my ggg grandfather. According to the IGI he was > baptised > on 13th February 1803 in Rickmansworth and was the illegitimate son of > Elizabeth ANDREWS. He moved to Lewisham in Kent and became a grocer. He > married > Rebecca PESKED on 29th September 1834. I would be interested to hear from > anyone > who has done any research on the ANDREWS of Rickmansworth.

Hi 1861 census for Great Chishill as follows:- Dinah PITTY Head U. 72 Grocer b. Great Chishill. Living High Street, G/C. Nathaniel PITTY Head M 76 Bricklayers Labourer. b. G/C. Matilda " WI M 50 b. G/C. George " son U 25 Ag. Lab. b. G/C. Living High Street, G/C. Josiah PITTY HD U 52 Wheelwright b.G/C. Living High Street, G/C. Nathan PITTY HD M 26 Ag. Lab. b. G/C. Eliza " WI M 24 b. Barley, Herts. Joseph " Son 4 b. G/C. James " Son 2 b. G/C. Living in Maltings Lane, G/C. Hope this helps. Regards John Halsey.

Thanks Wedy appreciate that. Jim. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy" <wgb@iinet.net.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [Herts] re Certificates > Hi Jim, > > You can order online here: > > http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ > > Cheers > Wendy > Perth West Aust > > Jim & Eleanor Brennan wrote: > > >good morning, I need to order a death certificate for a death that occured in Watford, what address should I use. > > > >Jim Brennan > >Corunna, Ont. Can. > > > > > >==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > >To POST a message to this list use the address: > > > >eng-hertfordshire-l@rootsweb.com > > > >2) To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send a message to: > > > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in mail mode i.e. receiving > >the messages individually or want them individually) or > > > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in digest mode i.e. > >receiving a digest of multiple messages or want this mode) > > > >In the BODY of the message (not the subject line) type the word subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/05 > >

Hi Judy, Here is a brief transcript of the 1891 census for the household living on High Road next to the "Queen's Head" pub: Irad BRADSHAW, Head,61 (Braughing, Herts) Emma, Wife, 55 (Cheshunt, Herts) William, Son, 26 (Hoddesdon, Herts) Alice?, Dau, 22 (Wormley, Herts) David, Son, 18 (Broxbourne?, Herts) Charlotte, Dau, 15 (Wormley, Herts) Amelia, Dau, 12 (Ditto.) Eliza Alice BRADSHAW, Grand Dau, 1 (Ditto.) All of the children were single, Eliza would probably have been illegitimate. The 1901 household that you talk of (living on High Road two doors down from the "Queen's Head" pub) is like so: Irad BRADSHAW, Head, 60 (Braughing, Herts) Emma, Wife, 50 (Cheshunt, Herts) William, Son, 26 (Ditto) Only three people in the house, amazingly. Irad got 1 year younger, Emma lost 5 years in a decade and William didn't celebrate his birthday in the same period!! For 1871 here's a brief and incomplete household transcript: Irad BRADSHAW, Head, 41, Braughing Emma, Wife, 34, Cheshunt .. 3 other children .. Willie, Son, 5, Hoddesdon .. 2 other children .. And 1881: Irad BRADSHAW, Head, 50, Braughing Emma, Wife, 44, Cheshunt .. 1 other child .. William, Son, 16, Hoddesdon .. 5 other children .. It appears that Irad died in 1907, aged 76 (1831). I note also a marriage of William Irad BRADSHAW in 1903 and a birth in 1895 of David Irad BRADSHAW. Lucky that this family had such a peculiar name. These are just two records that I noticed while searching Ancestry.co.uk, many more must exist. A subscription to Ancestry.co.uk (even if only for a Quarter Year) would be well worth it. I've had mine for nearly the full quarter and will need to upgrade it soon. This time it'll be for a year.. it's such a good website! I recently subscribed to another major genealogical website (which will remain un-named) and have been quite disappointed so far at its coverage -- mainly the southern counties as faras I can see, when most (if not all) of my research is based around Nottinghamshire and the other Midlands counties. Ancestry has the surname as BRAKTHAW for 1871 (Jred Brakthaw no less!), and has "..ad BRADSHAW" for 1881. 1891/1901 were correct. To find the family in 1871, I did a search for 'Emma' born at Cheshunt and living in Hertfordshire.. and got them! Four images sent off list (1871-81-91 & 1901). HTH, Jesse Luke Walker, London, UK. -- Descended from the WALKER family of Beeston in Nottinghamshire. http://www.bongoots.com/ --Advertisement-- Eliza SCOTT (1834-1890s) of Northchurch, Herts, married my 3rd great grandfather in 1866 at Northchurch. Settled in Liverpool and then went to Beeston, Notts, 1891. She was the daughter of Thomas SCOTT (1812-Bucks) and Sarah EMBREY (1807-Islip, Oxon). Please get in touch if there's a connection anywhere on this branch! --Advertisement-- <grin> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:38:30 +1030, JAE <gene47@iprimus.com.au> wrote: > While checking on my BRADSHAW family on the 1901 census (the free bit). I came across the following. > > Irad BRADSHAW age 60 born 1841 Essex Brangling > Emma BRADSHAW aged 50 born 1851 Herts Chealernut > William BRADSHAW aged 26 born 1875 Herts Chealernut > > I have on my tree > Irad BRADSHAW born 1829 Herts Braughing > Emma (nee DERBRIDGE) BRADSHAW born 1836 Herts Cheshunt > William BRADSHAW born 1865 Herts Hoddesdon > William and Emma were married in 1855. > > Could there really be such a discrepancy in ages for the same family? > > Cheers > Judy