I have come across several wills where the sum of nineteen guineas (£19.95 in new money!) was left to children and grandchildren. Was there some magic about this figure, or for some reason, eg a form of Death Duty, was it wished to keep the figure below £20? Donald Massey

Thank you, Mike - gosh, that was quick! ;-) Yes, it helps me a great deal, as it confirms Joseph's age and Mary's place of birth - I am very grateful to you. It also confirms they had a daughter Emily who was probably the Emily CUTMORE bap 18 Jun 1837 at Much (Great) Hadham. If anyone has the 1841 census and can find Joseph and Mary CUTMORE with young Emily, this will almost certainly help to pinpoint a few more of their children. Or if some kind soul can help me differentiate between the offspring of Joseph CUTMORE and Mary BIRD, and those of Joseph CUTMORE and Mary CARTER....? All help gratefully received! Thanks again, Mike - you're a star! Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Chaney" <michaelchaney@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Joseph and Mary CUTMORE, Much Hadham, 1851 (1841?) > Sue.... > > Bishops Stortford 107-1706 Folio 493-505 Great Hadham > > 47 Green Tye - Raffords (?) Farm - Cottage (one of several) > > Joseph CUTMORE Head Mar 57 Ag. Lab Great Hadham, Herts. > Mary CUTMORE Wife Mar 55 Wife Standon, Herts. > Emily CUTMORE Dau 15 Dau Great Hadham, Herts. > Aaron CUTMORE Son 9 Son Great Hadham, Herts. > > It seems that Hadham changed from being "great" to merely "much" between > 1851 and 1861. > > I hope this helps. > > Regards, > > Mike

Sue.... Bishops Stortford 107-1706 Folio 493-505 Great Hadham 47 Green Tye - Raffords (?) Farm - Cottage (one of several) Joseph CUTMORE Head Mar 57 Ag. Lab Great Hadham, Herts. Mary CUTMORE Wife Mar 55 Wife Standon, Herts. Emily CUTMORE Dau 15 Dau Great Hadham, Herts. Aaron CUTMORE Son 9 Son Great Hadham, Herts. It seems that Hadham changed from being "great" to merely "much" between 1851 and 1861. I hope this helps. Regards, Mike

I wonder if someone with the 1851 census (and perhaps the 1841, if that's not too huge a favour to ask?) would be very kind and help me to solve a riddle. I have a Joseph CUTMORE (also spelt CATMORE) who married Mary Unknown in 1818. From what I can see, there were two marriages of a Joseph CUTMORE to a Mary at Much Hadham in 1818: JOSEPH CUTMORE Spouse: MARY BIRD Marriage: 20 APR 1818 Much Hadham, Hertford, England and JOSEPH CUTMORE Spouse: MARY CARTER Marriage: 24 JUL 1818 Much Hadham, Hertford, England From the numerous conflicting baptisms listed in the IGI, it does appear that there were, indeed, two Joseph and Mary CUTMOREs having children post 1818, and at the moment I haven't got a snowball's chance of sorting out which was which! ;-) I have what I think is our Joseph and Mary in the 1871 - our Joseph was bap 13 Oct 1793, Much Hadham and the dates certainly tally exactly: 1861 census Much Hadham, Hertfordshire Joseph CATMORE, Head, Mar, 67, Ag Lab, Much Hadham, Herts Mary CATMORE, Wife, Mar, 63, Standon, Herts Aaron CATMORE, Son, Un, 19, Ag Lab, Much Hadham, Herts If some kind soul could find the above household in 1851, I hope it will put me on the right lines. Happy to do later look-ups in exchange! Many thanks, Sue

Hi Listers I have found what I think is an ancestor on the 1861 census, and she says she was born in Old Hall Green, Herts. Now, if this is her, she was baptised at Little Munden. Does anyone know if this would be possible? Would someone who was born there be baptised at Little Munden? I have read that Old Hall Green was a Catholic parish, my ancestors were not Catholics, would this be why? Maybe the church was closed down there for some reason, I don't know. I have found Old Hall Green on Multimap, and it looks quite near Great Munden, and the mother of the said ancestor was born in Standon, although, I have not found a birth for her yet, she says that on a couple of the censuses. The mother and father were married (again, I think, if I have them right) in Little Munden. Thank you so much for your help, if anyone knows anything about this area, I would very much appreciate an opinion. Regards Lisa

Hi, I am rejoining the list after a short break and thought I would use the opportunity to rename my interest. Charles POULTON born possibly about 1787. In Census records he gives his birthplace as Hadley or Barnet. He married Amey USHER 1812 in London and died 1870 in Hadley, Hertfordshire/Middlesex. Amey was dead by 1851 as Charles is a widow. I have not found him in any 1841 Census yet. His occupation was a gardener. He seemed to move around as his children were baptised in 1814 Chipping Barnet, 1815 Totteridge, 1817 Chipping Barnet, 1820 Monken Hadley, 1823 - 1830 Hatfield. From 1841 to his death 1870 he seemed to have stayed in Hadley. I do get a little confused as to what areas are in Herts and what areas are in Middlesex. Is there a simple explanation anywhere as to the changes in county boundaries, especially in the 18th and 19th centuries, that someone can tell me about? If anyone has come across any references to POULTON in any of the above places please would you tell me so I can get the films and checkthem for my ancestors. If anyone has POULTON in their family tree, I would be interested to hear from them. Regards Brenda

Hi All On the 1861 census my gr gr grandmother Harriet Warner worked at the Dragon Pub St Albans , can anyone tell me if its still there and has anyone got a picture of it Cheers Cassy -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/2005

I am attempting to find the date of William Watkins birth and any other information. He was born in Watford, Hertfordshire in 1807, we believe. He married but we have no record of the wife or name or date. They had a son named William Watkins, Jr. in 1824. I believe the wife died soon after the birth and that he remarried. Any help on names and dates, and any other information you may have would be appreciated. Thank you. Loretta Boswell; Auburn, Indiana USA

Most older electoral rolls are held at the relevant County Record Offices. NB - they are not necessarily in alphabetical order by voter, nor are they indexed ! In message <317B10BF.11C39874.09DAA4A9@aol.com>, CEGaules62@aol.com writes >were these around in 1917 for Stevenage , and if so where could i view them? > Many thanks > Chris > > >==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > > -- chris

Loads & loads of Clare's but no Daniel sorry Jeanne Brian Ranson <BrianPat@ranson6.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: If anyone has access to Pallots I really would be most grateful if they could check to see if there is a listing of a marriage betwen Daniel CLARE and Susanna late 17thC/early 18th. Alternatively if there is a marriage index covering this period I would appreciate confirmation of the source. Many thanks. Brian, Congleton, Cheshire. ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== Hertfordshire FHS: http://www.btinternet.com/~hfphs/index.htm

----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:51 AM Subject: 1841 census >???? Hi! A new Lister..and hope perhaps someone may help.. I have tried unsuccesfully, to find the 1841 census for Lower Edmonton.. Mddx. atleast i thought it was Middx. but now it seems that some of these London areas belong to Herts. and some to Essex .."data.. If anyone can enlighten me as to whether i am on the right track i would appreciate it. Searching LUCAS family..of the area... Happy to reciprocate with . Warwks/Northants/Oxon border villages..!! TIA Betty (oz)

Does anyone know if there is a problem with H A L S at the moment? I asked for an electoral roll search to be done several weeks ago and haven't heard back yet. I have emailed them twice now but had no response. I flagged my last message but haven't had the notification that its been opened. Thanks Bev

Hi Brian: I posted this request to the Herts list recently, noting that you had kindly looked up another St. Albans entry for Geoff Morse. Though I had a response from someone else who had looked up only St. Peter's area but not outlying areas of St. Albans, my original question was far from being answered by this single response. You mentioned that you had been looking at the 1851 Census for Leete for Geoff. Would you mind also looking in the 1851 Census for this Giles family, somewhere in the area of St. Albans. She gave her birthplace as St. Albans in the 1861, 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses (have not found them in 1871 but know she was in or near Colchester, Essex at that time) In 1858 she married William Robert Willcocks at Portsea, Hants (so these later censuses show her as Sarah J Willcocks). At her marriage, her father's name was stated as George Giles. He was not shown as dead, but with an occupation "office clerk." Prior to that, William had been married to Elizabeth CHALKLEY, who appears to have died in 1853. The 1851 census shows William and Elizabeth in Portsea. I have not found George GILES and his daughter Sarah in Portsea at that time, nor have they been found in 1841, nor can I find a christening for her in St. Albans on the IGI, but perhaps there are some churches in St Albans that have a baptism record. She would have been born in 1830, as she gave her age as 49 in 1881, 60 in 1891, and 69 in 1901. In 1861 she was 31. At her wedding on 22 Mar 1858 she was 28, a spinster, so not previously married. Therefore, she was SOMEWHERE in 1851 age about 21, but could well be somewhere other than with her father George. With this little to go on, in 1841 she should be 11, and surely would be living with her father, but of course he could have moved from St. Albans by then. What a pity the 1831 did not have the details of households! I'm clutching at straws, but what churches are in the vicinity of St. Albans in about 1830, are any of their baptism records available, is there anyone out there who could search them for Sarah Jemima Giles (her middle name is known from her death registration in 1907). Her birth in 1830 is, of course, before registration began. In the 1861 and later censuses, she gave her birthplace as St. Albans, Herts, but this could refer to only the nearest town or general area where she was born, as she was living in another county in 1861, and in 1881-1901 was in Bishops Stortford, some way from St. Albans. So what are the outlying districts where she might have been born, and who has the records for these areas? I am sure that she was not the only likely Sarah Giles I found in the IGI, born at St. Ippollitts, Hitchin as this Sarah's father was James, not George. Who can help me tear down this brick wall? Regards Martin Willcocks Taylorsville, UT, USA.

Thanks for looking Jeanne. Really do appreciate it. Regards. Brian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J POTTER" <j.potter1@btopenworld.com> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Pallots/Marriage Index. > Loads & loads of Clare's but no Daniel sorry > Jeanne > > Brian Ranson <BrianPat@ranson6.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > If anyone has access to Pallots I really would be most grateful if they could check to see if there is a listing of a marriage betwen Daniel CLARE and Susanna late 17thC/early 18th. Alternatively if there is a marriage index covering this period I would appreciate confirmation of the source. > Many thanks. > Brian, Congleton, Cheshire. > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Hertfordshire FHS: > http://www.btinternet.com/~hfphs/index.htm > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > >

If anyone has access to Pallots I really would be most grateful if they could check to see if there is a listing of a marriage betwen Daniel CLARE and Susanna late 17thC/early 18th. Alternatively if there is a marriage index covering this period I would appreciate confirmation of the source. Many thanks. Brian, Congleton, Cheshire.

Valerie Thanks for that , I don't know Stevenage at all, let alone what it was like all those years ago, I will certainly have a look for it on the old maps site. I have now found out where Back Lane was, thanks to Chris, and Brick Kiln lane, and Brickfield cottages, where other rellies lived. The old fashioned writing is so difficult to read on these censuses, it is quite a challenge. Fancy you having a Glazebrook as a headmaster, must be a descendent I would imagine. These are my direct ancestors and they moved away to Finchley in the 1860s, so I have been very interested to find out where they lived whilst in Stevenage. Thanks again Lisa -------Original Message------- From: H & V Edwards Date: 05/25/05 18:06:28 To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] 1851 census look up please GLAZEBROOK and BRIARS Dear Lisa, I lived for 30 years in Stevenage, there was no Pier Green or Pea Green, but a Pin Green. It is now part of the New Town's estates, started I believe in the early 1960's. If you look at www.old-maps.co.uk perhaps you may find Stevenage Lodge Estate (which I had never heard of despite doing a history of Stevenage at school). Funnily enough, I went to Broom Barns Junior school and had a Mr. Glazebrook as my headmaster in the early 1960's! Valerie Edwards, Vancouver Island, BC. Canada. Valerie Edwards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Koelink" <lisa.koelink@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [HRT] 1851 census look up please GLAZEBROOK and BRIARS > To John > Thank you, thank you, thank you! > What a find! > Gosh, William James was a Gamekeeper, how exciting, I shall have to > 'Google' > now, and find out about the Stevenage Lodge Estate. I would assume that > it > would have been a big house of some sort. There might be records kept of > staff. Gosh! > Also, you have clarified what 'Pier Green' was for me, 'Pea Green', thanks > for that, and I shall have to look up a marriage for Jane Glazebrook too. > Once again, thank you so much for sending me this information, absolutely > brilliant > Regards > Lisa > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Berkojohn258@aol.com > Date: 05/25/05 09:39:08 > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HRT] 1851 census look up please GLAZEBROOK and BRIARS > > Hi Lisa, Details found and forwarded to you direct. Regards John H. > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Hertfordshire FHS: > http://www.btinternet.com/~hfphs/index.htm > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005 ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== For any updates our info about the status of this list go to http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com

Thanks also go to Dot in Salisbury for the search of my BROWN family. Eunice - Australia

Is anyone searching these lines?? I have acquired a load of information & mis-information & would like to contact anyone working any of these names. FRYTH -John, in 1700 a Quaker immigrant to Salem, New Jersey, back to his grandfather Edward who died abt. 1667 in Shenstone, Staffs having married Granada Hinton, daughter of HINTON - Samuel 1598 - 1668 of Lichfield, Staffs who married Elizabeth, daughter of CHESTER - Sir Robert 1566-1641 Royston, Hertfordshire who married CAPEL - Ann d, 1604 daughter or granddaughter of Sir Henry 1516 -1588 Rayne, Essex who married MANNERS - Catherine 1538-1572 Haddon Hall, Derbyshire whose grandfather Sir George 1465 - 1513 married ST. LEGER - Ann 1476-1526 Northumberland, whose father Thomas who in abt. 1476 married Ann PLANTAGENET, of Northampton, sister of Richard III Joan Crozier Patterson Jcp163@tampabay.rr.com

Is anyone searching these lines?? I have acquired a load of information & mis-information & would like to contact anyone working any of these names. FRYTH -John, in 1700 a Quaker immigrant to Salem, New Jersey, back to his grandfather Edward who died abt. 1667 in Shenstone, Staffs having married Granada Hinton, daughter of HINTON - Samuel 1598 - 1668 of Lichfield, Staffs who married Elizabeth, daughter of CHESTER - Sir Robert 1566-1641 Royston, Hertfordshire who married CAPEL - Ann d, 1604 daughter or granddaughter of Sir Henry 1516 -1588 Rayne, Essex who married MANNERS - Catherine 1538-1572 Haddon Hall, Derbyshire whose grandfather Sir George 1465 - 1513 married ST. LEGER - Ann 1476-1526 Northumberland, whose father Thomas who in abt. 1476 married Ann PLANTAGENET, of Northampton, sister of Richard III Joan Crozier Patterson Jcp163@tampabay.rr.com

Thanks so very much for the information received regarding my BROWN family. Thank you to Paula and Tess who replied with this information. Sorry I got carried away and put 1871/18/19/1901, just a slip of the finger should have been 1871/81/91/1901 and of course with Arthur yes it should have been 1873 not 1863. I see that Jesse and his family moved to Wellingborough with my gt grandma and grandma and two sisters. I was born in Wellingborough and did not know of this family only Alice and Agnes (who became my grandma). Anyway thanks for this information and will now search for the BROWN family in Wellingborough. Grateful Eunice - Australia