Hi Dawn Although Edmonton is now part of the London Borough of Enfield, it is still part of Middlesex. A registration in Edmonton then could include a birth in Edmonton, Enfield, Cheshunt in Hertfordshire, or Waltham Cross. So I would say they would not be living in London. I live in Enfield now and I do not class myself as living in London. My telephone code is not a London code but a Lea Valley one which is the same as used as some towns in Hertfordshire. As for an explanation - I can't help, but maybe other listers can. Denise -----Original Message----- From: dawn thornton [mailto:dawn.thornton@sympatico.ca] Sent: 26 July 2005 18:34 To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HRT] Location Question Could someone explain why the following information would be listed with a birth ? I have an ancestor born in 1877 in the district of Edmonton, which I understand is now in Greater London. However, the birth info lists the county as Essex, Hertfordshire & Middlesex. I didn't think it could be all three. Is there an explanation and would this person be considered living in London at that time ? Thanks Keith Thornton Ontario, Canada ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is encouraged.

Sometimes a Registration District covers parts of more than one county: another example, Berkhamstead (Herts) covers part of Bucks, and Chester parts of Flintshire. Often the certs will show all the counties covered, not just the one where the event occurred. Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- > Could someone explain why the following information would be listed with a > birth ? > > I have an ancestor born in 1877 in the district of Edmonton, which I > understand is now in Greater London. However, the birth info lists the > county as Essex, Hertfordshire & Middlesex. I didn't think it could be all > three. > > Is there an explanation and would this person be considered living in > London at that time ?

Could someone explain why the following information would be listed with a birth ? I have an ancestor born in 1877 in the district of Edmonton, which I understand is now in Greater London. However, the birth info lists the county as Essex, Hertfordshire & Middlesex. I didn't think it could be all three. Is there an explanation and would this person be considered living in London at that time ? Thanks Keith Thornton Ontario, Canada

I am probably way off course, but two I know of: The Arch across Highgate Archway, Islington, on the A1 on the way to London City. A temporary one at Bushey for the Coronation in 1953. Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Campbell" <rcampbell3@optusnet.com.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 8:45 PM Subject: [HRT] a decorated arch across the main road? > Maybe some local lister maybe able assist me in re focusing a vague memory > I > have going back 50 years when I was a tiny boy. > This refers to a decorated either wrought or cast iron archway/decoration > that used to span across a main road, which I recall had a series of swans > as part of the design. I always thought it was in Edmonton or Enfield but > after speaking to my elderly uncle in England tonight, he too remembers > this > (so its not my imagination running amok) but he felt it was more towards > Cheshunt or even Waltham Cross. > Does anyone know more about this, which, for some unknown reason > resurrected itself from the dark cobwebbed recesses in my memory and is > really bugging me. > cheers > Bob > in Brisbane > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the > message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other > readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. > >

I live in Enfield and my parents are in Edmonton, I cannot recall any archway across any road in this area, or in Cheshunt which is just up the road from me, or Waltham Cross. Sorry, my husband has just remembered that there is one at Waltham Cross near the Eleanor Cross and Fishpools Furniture Store. Patti ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Campbell" <rcampbell3@optusnet.com.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 8:45 PM Subject: [HRT] a decorated arch across the main road? > Maybe some local lister maybe able assist me in re focusing a vague memory > I > have going back 50 years when I was a tiny boy. > This refers to a decorated either wrought or cast iron archway/decoration > that used to span across a main road, which I recall had a series of swans > as part of the design. I always thought it was in Edmonton or Enfield but > after speaking to my elderly uncle in England tonight, he too remembers > this > (so its not my imagination running amok) but he felt it was more towards > Cheshunt or even Waltham Cross. > Does anyone know more about this, which, for some unknown reason > resurrected itself from the dark cobwebbed recesses in my memory and is > really bugging me. > cheers > Bob > in Brisbane > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text of the > message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary to remind other > readers what the thread is about but do try to use good judgement. > > >

Maybe some local lister maybe able assist me in re focusing a vague memory I have going back 50 years when I was a tiny boy. This refers to a decorated either wrought or cast iron archway/decoration that used to span across a main road, which I recall had a series of swans as part of the design. I always thought it was in Edmonton or Enfield but after speaking to my elderly uncle in England tonight, he too remembers this (so its not my imagination running amok) but he felt it was more towards Cheshunt or even Waltham Cross. Does anyone know more about this, which, for some unknown reason resurrected itself from the dark cobwebbed recesses in my memory and is really bugging me. cheers Bob in Brisbane

Yes, this would have been the Four Swans inn in Waltham Cross. It dated from early medieval times (13th or 14tht C?) and was demolished c.1970 to make way for a shopping centre, although there still are four swans on an 'archway' of sorts over the road in the original location. These swans are fibreglass repros installed after local complaints about the loss of the originals. Pity they didn't complain a bit earlier, and save the inn! I will send you a scan of an old postcard of the pub offlist. Lawrence, Waltham Abbey, Essex. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Campbell [mailto:rcampbell3@optusnet.com.au] > Sent: 24 July 2005 20:45 > To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] a decorated arch across the main road? > > > Maybe some local lister maybe able assist me in re focusing a > vague memory I > have going back 50 years when I was a tiny boy. > This refers to a decorated either wrought or cast iron > archway/decoration > that used to span across a main road, which I recall had a > series of swans > as part of the design. I always thought it was in Edmonton or > Enfield but > after speaking to my elderly uncle in England tonight, he too > remembers this > (so its not my imagination running amok) but he felt it was > more towards > Cheshunt or even Waltham Cross. > Does anyone know more about this, which, for some unknown reason > resurrected itself from the dark cobwebbed recesses in my > memory and is > really bugging me. > cheers > Bob > in Brisbane > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > TRY to keep quoting to a minimum. "Quoting" is repeating text > of the message you are replying to. Some quoting is necessary > to remind other readers what the thread is about but do try > to use good judgement. > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: > 22/07/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005

Hi Pat, I found the family in 1881 on www.familysearch.org Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Francis GALL Head M Male 54 (B S), France Journeyman Smith B Eliza GALL Wife M Female 54 Hitchin, Hertford, England Straw Plaiter Ellen GALL Daugr U Female 24 Hitchin, Hertford, England Straw Plaiter Arthur GALL Son U Male 19 Hitchin, Hertford, England Labr Unemployed Kate GALL Daugr U Female 17 Hitchin, Hertford, England Straw Plaiter Emma GALL Daugr Female 14 Hitchin, Hertford, England Straw Plaiter Jane GALL Daugr Female 8 Hitchin, Hertford, England Scholar Dwelling Folly Census Place Hitchin, Hertford, England Family History Library Film 1341345 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1419 / 61 Page Number 18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Teare" <patteare@bigpond.com.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 11:46 AM Subject: [HRT] GOLL in Hitchin > Hello all > I would love to hear from anyone researching this family, or would > appreciate it if anyone can add any further information. > 1901 Census (looks like Sunny Side) Hitchin Hertfordshire > Francie/Frances GOLL, 78, head, widower, French subject. > Emly Goll, 33, dau, b Hitchin. Kate Goll, 9 gdau, b Hitchin. > Next door is a family transcribed as > GALL, Arthur 39, Alice 40 and > seven children, all family b Hitchin. > I suspect that Arthur GALL is the son of Francie GOLL. > > Regards > Pat > Lake Macquarie,NSW,Australia > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > encouraged. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005

Hello all I would love to hear from anyone researching this family, or would appreciate it if anyone can add any further information. 1901 Census (looks like Sunny Side) Hitchin Hertfordshire Francie/Frances GOLL, 78, head, widower, French subject. Emly Goll, 33, dau, b Hitchin. Kate Goll, 9 gdau, b Hitchin. Next door is a family transcribed as GALL, Arthur 39, Alice 40 and seven children, all family b Hitchin. I suspect that Arthur GALL is the son of Francie GOLL. Regards Pat Lake Macquarie,NSW,Australia

Here they are in the 1891 census of Hitchin: PRO Ref: RG12/1107, folio 163, page 12 Schedule 70, 56 Sunny Side Francis GALL Head M 65 Roadman Herts Hitchin Eliza do Wife M 64 Housewife do do Emily do Daur S 23 Straw Plaiter do do and next door Schedule 69, 55 Sunny Side Arthur GALL Head M 28 Laborer do do Alice do Wife M 28 Housewife do do Elizabeth do Daur 9 Scholar do do Ellen do Daur 7 do do do Jane do Daur 5 do do do Arthur do Son 4 do do do William do Son 2 do do Frank do Son 5 months do do And in the 1871 of Hitchin: PRO Ref: RG10/1368, folio 32, page 12 Schedule 72, 1 The Folley Francis GALL Head Mar 44 Labourer Ag France British Subject Eliza do Wife Mar 42 Straw Plaiter Hertfordshire Hitchin Francis do Son Unm 18 Ag Labourer Middlesex Holloway Charles do Son 16 Scholar do do Ellen do Daur 13 Straw Plaiter Hertfordshire Hitchin Arthur do Son 9 Scholar do do Kate do Daur 7 do do do William do Son 5 do do Emily do Daur 3 do do I can't find them in the 1861 at all. Hope this helps. Janet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Teare" <patteare@bigpond.com.au> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 4:46 AM Subject: [HRT] GOLL in Hitchin > Hello all > I would love to hear from anyone researching this family, or would > appreciate it if anyone can add any further information. > 1901 Census (looks like Sunny Side) Hitchin Hertfordshire > Francie/Frances GOLL, 78, head, widower, French subject. > Emly Goll, 33, dau, b Hitchin. Kate Goll, 9 gdau, b Hitchin. > Next door is a family transcribed as > GALL, Arthur 39, Alice 40 and > seven children, all family b Hitchin. > I suspect that Arthur GALL is the son of Francie GOLL. > > Regards > Pat > Lake Macquarie,NSW,Australia > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > encouraged. >

Dear Listers, Would anyone know of a Gertrude "Gertie" JACKSON who died about 1941 or 1942 at St Albans, she died while giving birth to a daughter. Does Gertie Jackson mean anything to anyone around this time, not sure if Jackson is her married name or maiden name. Thank you Linda Tasmania, Australia

I notice that in the parish registers of St Albans Abbey, there seems to be a considerable Welsh community in the late 16th century. There appear not only the usual Welsh surnames, such as Jones and Price, but the older forms, e.g. ap Richard. Does anyone know why this should be? Regards, John Moore

Thelma, Thanks very much for the very prompt reply. The info is great it clears up a mystery that has been bugging me. Looking at the 1861 image again I can see the 13 year old is Walter not William and that clears up a lot of confusion. Many thanks once again Best wishes Peter Garrett Deal, Kent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thelma Wigley" <t.wig@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] AMBLER > Hi Peter > Here's the family in 1851 > 107/1714 Folios 16-29 Page 6 Letchmore Heath > > James Ambler, head, mrd, 40?(very indistinct) Bricklayer, b.Shenley > Hannah wife, mrd, 40 > b.Aldenham > William, son, 15, Bricklayer's labourer do > Fanny, dau, 13, Scholar > do > Emily, dau, 11, do > do > Hannah, dau, 9, do > do > Horace I.? son, 6, do > do > Walter, son, 3 do > do > > Happy hunting > Thelma > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Peter Garrett" <bpgarrett@beeb.net> > To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:41 AM > Subject: [HRT] AMBLER > > > >I have a James AMBLER born about 1810 in Shenley married to Hannah (Surname > >unknown) born about 1811 in Aldenham. In the 1861 census they are living at > >Litchmore Heath in Aldenham with daughter Fanny (23), son William (13) and > >granddaughter Emily (1). > > > > Could SKS see if they are there in 1851 and what other children there > > might be with them. > > > > Many thanks > > > > Peter Garrett > > Deal, Kent > > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > > encouraged. > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > For any updates our info about the status of this list go to > http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com >

Hi Peter Here's the family in 1851 107/1714 Folios 16-29 Page 6 Letchmore Heath James Ambler, head, mrd, 40?(very indistinct) Bricklayer, b.Shenley Hannah wife, mrd, 40 b.Aldenham William, son, 15, Bricklayer's labourer do Fanny, dau, 13, Scholar do Emily, dau, 11, do do Hannah, dau, 9, do do Horace I.? son, 6, do do Walter, son, 3 do do Happy hunting Thelma ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Peter Garrett" <bpgarrett@beeb.net> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:41 AM Subject: [HRT] AMBLER >I have a James AMBLER born about 1810 in Shenley married to Hannah (Surname >unknown) born about 1811 in Aldenham. In the 1861 census they are living at >Litchmore Heath in Aldenham with daughter Fanny (23), son William (13) and >granddaughter Emily (1). > > Could SKS see if they are there in 1851 and what other children there > might be with them. > > Many thanks > > Peter Garrett > Deal, Kent > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > This list is for the discussion of Genealogy and History, primarily > regarding the English County of Hertfordshire. Discussion of migration > patterns, immigration, heraldry, historical sketches, census data, wills, > family Bibles, vital records, web sites, etc. involving this area is > encouraged. > >

I have a James AMBLER born about 1810 in Shenley married to Hannah (Surname unknown) born about 1811 in Aldenham. In the 1861 census they are living at Litchmore Heath in Aldenham with daughter Fanny (23), son William (13) and granddaughter Emily (1). Could SKS see if they are there in 1851 and what other children there might be with them. Many thanks Peter Garrett Deal, Kent

Just in case The licence did not survive. DRY DRAYTON in CAMBRIDGESHIRE 1704 January 22 Thomas BOWLES of lWALLINGTON in HERTFORDSHIRE and Susan OFFLEY of this parish were married by licence from Dr. COOK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Honor Kennedy" <waverneyhopper@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: [HRT] WALLINGTON PUB=PLUMB > Does anyone have any information on the > PUB at WALLINGTON > kept by a > Mr. WILLIAM (BILL) PLUMB /his wife > sometimes in the 1950'S 1960'S > they might share with me. > Honor > > > ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Hertfordshire FHS: > http://www.btinternet.com/~hfphs/index.htm > > > __________ NOD32 1.1170 (20050715) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

I have just joined this list. I have been researching my family genealogy for about ten years, predominantly in Oxfordshire, Suffolk, and Somerset. I am now trying to trace some ancestors who moved to Hertfordshire early in the 20th Century. Harry RUDDOCK was born about 1867 in Norton Suffolk. He married Emily Rose FENN at Bramfield Suffolk on 7 October 1901. Emily Rose FENN was barn at Parham Suffolk about 1872. Emily Rose FENN was a sister of my maternal grandmother. Harry was working as a gardener in Finchley Middlesex in 1901 (1901 Census). Their children were born at Barnet. They were (as far as I have been able to determine) Emily (b 1903), Harry (b 1905), Constance (b 1907), and Reginald (b 1909). Source FreeBMD. In the 1950's they were all residing in the Barnet area. I am interested in hearing from anyone who is researching this family. Mike Wearing, Nova Scotia, Canada

There is a parish in Herts called Potten End called Denise Smart wrote: >Ponders End is actually part of Enfield rather than Hertfordshire - although >it is quite near the borders of Hertfordshire. There is/was both a train >staion and police station at Ponders End so could be either. It was/is on >the poorer side of Enfield being on the wrong side of the A10 which is the >road linking London to Hertford. There is a also a small part of Ponders >End between the River Lea and the railway which was known as Spike Island by >the locals. This was also near the Granville Public House and Ediswans >factory (which I have pictures of). Do you know where your relatives come >from and I can see if I have some pictures of around there. > >Denise > >-----Original Message----- >From: Pamela [mailto:pambishop@ntlworld.com] >Sent: 19 July 2005 17:39 >To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [HRT] Ponders End > > >Hiya, > >I am looking for a crime that was committed at Ponders End!!!! in >Hertfordshire but the crime was committed at Station house Ponders End, >could this have been a police station? or a train station, any information >on where I can find out more about this would be much appreciated, and of >course any pictures, thanks for you help > > >Pam >www.hudgill.co.uk > > >==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >For any updates our info about the status of this list go to >http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com > > > > > >==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== >To POST a message to this list use the address: > >eng-hertfordshire-l@rootsweb.com > >2) To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send a message to: > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in mail mode i.e. receiving >the messages individually or want them individually) or > >ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com (if you are in digest mode i.e. >receiving a digest of multiple messages or want this mode) > >In the BODY of the message (not the subject line) type the word subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > >

Ponders End is actually part of Enfield rather than Hertfordshire - although it is quite near the borders of Hertfordshire. There is/was both a train staion and police station at Ponders End so could be either. It was/is on the poorer side of Enfield being on the wrong side of the A10 which is the road linking London to Hertford. There is a also a small part of Ponders End between the River Lea and the railway which was known as Spike Island by the locals. This was also near the Granville Public House and Ediswans factory (which I have pictures of). Do you know where your relatives come from and I can see if I have some pictures of around there. Denise -----Original Message----- From: Pamela [mailto:pambishop@ntlworld.com] Sent: 19 July 2005 17:39 To: ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HRT] Ponders End Hiya, I am looking for a crime that was committed at Ponders End!!!! in Hertfordshire but the crime was committed at Station house Ponders End, could this have been a police station? or a train station, any information on where I can find out more about this would be much appreciated, and of course any pictures, thanks for you help Pam www.hudgill.co.uk ==== ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE Mailing List ==== For any updates our info about the status of this list go to http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com

> Does anyone have a photograph they would be willing to copy for me of either > Oxhey Infants School (on the corner of Chalk Hill and Aldenham Road) or London Road School (on London Road north of the village)? > > Both have long been demolished, but they were my first and second schools > 1937 - 41. > > Donald Massey Hi Donald Try the Bushey Museum http://www.busheymuseum.org They have a collection of local information Regards Ron Ruislip Middlesex UK NEWLAND & COLLER family history