Hi, on the off chance that they were still here for the 1841 census the only Alfred Norris who remotely fits , is b 1834 c , and is living in Northaw , aged 7, with parents John and Mary , 45 and 40, and siblings Elizabeth 13, and George 10. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garces K." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: [HRT] Norris families in Hertfordshire > Hoping to connect with others researching Norris surname in Hertfordshire > and surrounding counties. > > My brick wall: my gg grandfather Alfred Norris b. c. 1829 Hertfordshire > (according to Edgar, Illinois census of 1860). He was living with (his > parents or aunt and uncle ?) Joseph & Mary Norris. His brother or cousin > James Norris's daughter Eliza was b. 1845 Richland, Ohio so the family was > in the U.S. by then. I would appreciate any help, hints or suggestions in > finding out more about this family when they were in England and upon > entering the U.S. (ie: ship/passenger lists etc.) Thank you, Kendra > > > --------------------------------- > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for > Yahoo! users and friends. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.3/1354 - Release Date: > 01/04/2008 05:38 > >

Hello, I'm wondering if there's anyone on the list that has access to the Berkhampstead PR's and if so would they be kind enough to do a look up for me. I have a marriage of SELINA COLLINS to THOMAS FAULKNER 9 November 1830 I would dearly love to know if there are any details such as the names of their fathers or the names of the witnesses. Crossing my fingers, kind regards, Brenda

Norris was a common name in Hertfordshire, and several distinct families can be traced. There are 26 pages of them in HRT in 1992 IGI. There are only 4 Alfreds, none of which fit your data. It was also a widespread name throughout England, also in Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Try www.familysearch.com, and in particularly try Herefordshire, often confused with Herts. Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garces K." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: [HRT] Norris families in Hertfordshire > Hoping to connect with others researching Norris surname in Hertfordshire > and surrounding counties. > > My brick wall: my gg grandfather Alfred Norris b. c. 1829 Hertfordshire > (according to Edgar, Illinois census of 1860). He was living with (his > parents or aunt and uncle ?) Joseph & Mary Norris. His brother or cousin > James Norris's daughter Eliza was b. 1845 Richland, Ohio so the family was > in the U.S. by then. I would appreciate any help, hints or suggestions in > finding out more about this family when they were in England and upon > entering the U.S. (ie: ship/passenger lists etc.) Thank you, Kendra > > > --------------------------------- > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for > Yahoo! users and friends. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Diana, I do not know if anybody answered your Query but I never saw your original E-mail only a reply from a Roy Stockdill ? but the Tring parish records at HALs have John Cutler and Ann Bull of this Parish married by Banns this 11th day of October 1773 by Tho's Jeans Clerk,John signed the register JohnCuttler and Ann put her mark. Wit Otto Jones and William Ogorman ?( Surname hard to read ) Some Baptisms- Dec 5 1773 Sarah dau of John and Ann Cutler Nov 19 1775 Elizabeth dau of John and Ann Cutler Oct 12 1777 Joseph son of John and Ann Cutler. NOV 7 1779 James son of John and Ann Cutler I could not find any mention of Johns or Ann's Baps at Tring or their Baps or marriage at Hemel. Regards Derick Hi Derick, Thank you for your email - your information confirms what I have on the tree but appears that Hemel Hempstead is wrong then - and that I should have Tring as the place of birth for both John and Ann? Anyway, this creates another query. I do have a son in the middle of the ones you have named - George Cutler born 1776. He is down as belonging to this family because the will by Joseph Garnett bequeaths: "First I give and devise unto my nephew John Cutler all that my messuage or tenement now in my occupation situate in Frogmore End in Tring aforesaid with the warehouse and workshops and also the Rights Members and Appurtenances to the same adjoining or belonging to hold unto my said nephew John Cutler and his assigns for and during the term of his natural life. And from and immediately after his decease I give and devise the said premises with the Appurts. unto his son George Cutler his heirs and assigns for ever. Also I give and bequeath unto my said nephew John Cutler the sum of two hundred pounds of lawful money of Great Britain to be paid to him by my Executors herein after maund within one year next after my decease. And I also give him all my weaving apparel to be delivered to him immediately." I have no idea how the connection is made between the Garnetts and the Cutlers - I need to know the siblings of Joseph Garnett and John Cutler to see if any marriages occurred. And why isn't George on the baptisms list? George Cutler definitely took up the canvas weaving business as he mentions it all in his own will when he died in 1848. Thanks for helping. Regards, Diana

Hoping to connect with others researching Norris surname in Hertfordshire and surrounding counties. My brick wall: my gg grandfather Alfred Norris b. c. 1829 Hertfordshire (according to Edgar, Illinois census of 1860). He was living with (his parents or aunt and uncle ?) Joseph & Mary Norris. His brother or cousin James Norris's daughter Eliza was b. 1845 Richland, Ohio so the family was in the U.S. by then. I would appreciate any help, hints or suggestions in finding out more about this family when they were in England and upon entering the U.S. (ie: ship/passenger lists etc.) Thank you, Kendra --------------------------------- No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends.

Trying to contact Marge Cambridge of British Columbia Canada lna [email protected] Nick

I do not want to see personal comments about anyone on this list. Hugh Listowner -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jean Williams Sent: Saturday, 29 March 2008 5:12 a.m. To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [HRT] Charles Cutler Whole heartedly agree - totally unnecessary attitude. Jean

From: hey wyre <[email protected]> > You might also want to take note that there are CUTLERs also in the > Warwickshire area at that time > > Judy > BC Canada < Ancestry shows the total number of Cutlers in the 1841 census as 1,319, whilst Findmypast puts it at 2,019. Don't ask me to explain the 800 difference, since I haven't the slightest intention of counting them! However, it establishes the point I made earlier in this thread that Cutler was not exactly an uncommon surname. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Having been on the receiving end of some of Roy's comments, I know the feeling of the recipient, but I feel that on reflection you will realise that he is only saving you going down the wrong road and wasting time (and money?). There is no short cut to an accurate family history, and those who rely only on indexes without going to original sources, and a map or atlas, are no more than "train spotters" anxious to get a few names on paper. As the less creditable newspaper editors say, why let the truth spoil a good story! Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- > Dont have a go at Roy, he is only stating the obvious and trying to be > helpful. As he says it is dangerous to make assumptions from LDS > submitted > entries. He is also a very respected genealogist and knows what he is > talking about, and people would do well to take his advice. > Patti

That is just what I needed - thanks. Ruth ________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra J Smith Sent: 28 March 2008 19:02 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HRT] Wills If you download this: http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/frc/pdfs/probate_records_from_1858.pdf It gives you instructions for ordering a copy of a post 1858 will Hope this helps Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Wisz" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: [HRT] Wills This isn't specific to Hertfordshire, but I was wondering if anyone could advise me how to get a copy of a will of someone who died in 1864? I found the following entry via the Newspaper link that someone posted: The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, May 14, 1864; Issue 8140 WILLS AND BEQUESTS The will of Lieutenant-Colonel Gabriel Burer, of Lymington, Southampton, was proved in the London Court under £20,000 personalty, The executors nominated are his two nephews, Charles Esse and Frederick Esse, Esqrs., and Henry B. Farnall, Esq. The will and codicil are dated 1853, and a second codicil 1862; the whole are in the Colonel's own handwriting. The will is attested by Rear-Admiral Thomas Symonds, O.B. and I. Falls, A.B., clerk. The testator has bequeathed to his wife a life interest in the whole of his property saving his ready money, cash at his bankers and army agents, which he leaves to her for her own absolute use; and, upon her decease, he leaves certain legacies to her nephews, and the residue of the property to his own nephews and nieces, and other relatives. - Illustrated News. Thanks for your help, Ruth ________________________________ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 28/03/2008 10:58 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: 27/03/2008 10:03

Thank you. Ruth ________________________________ -----Original Message----- The following can easily be found with Google on the Genuki website..... Post-1858 wills for England and Wales can be consulted at the Probate Dept of The Principal Registry Family Division: Probate Search Room, First Avenue House, 42-49 High Holborn, London, WC1V 6NP Tel: 020 7947 7000 Postal applications for post-1858 wills for England and Wales should be sent to the Probate Office, Castle Chambers, Clifford Street, York. YO1 9RG. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: 27/03/2008 10:03

If you download this: http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/frc/pdfs/probate_records_from_1858.pdf It gives you instructions for ordering a copy of a post 1858 will Hope this helps Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Wisz" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: [HRT] Wills This isn't specific to Hertfordshire, but I was wondering if anyone could advise me how to get a copy of a will of someone who died in 1864? I found the following entry via the Newspaper link that someone posted: The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, May 14, 1864; Issue 8140 WILLS AND BEQUESTS The will of Lieutenant-Colonel Gabriel Burer, of Lymington, Southampton, was proved in the London Court under £20,000 personalty, The executors nominated are his two nephews, Charles Esse and Frederick Esse, Esqrs., and Henry B. Farnall, Esq. The will and codicil are dated 1853, and a second codicil 1862; the whole are in the Colonel's own handwriting. The will is attested by Rear-Admiral Thomas Symonds, O.B. and I. Falls, A.B., clerk. The testator has bequeathed to his wife a life interest in the whole of his property saving his ready money, cash at his bankers and army agents, which he leaves to her for her own absolute use; and, upon her decease, he leaves certain legacies to her nephews, and the residue of the property to his own nephews and nieces, and other relatives. - Illustrated News. Thanks for your help, Ruth ________________________________ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1348 - Release Date: 28/03/2008 10:58

From: "Ruth Wisz" <[email protected]> > This isn't specific to Hertfordshire, but I was wondering if anyone > could advise me how to get a copy of a will of someone who died in > 1864? > > I found the following entry via the Newspaper link that someone > posted: > > The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, May 14, 1864; Issue 8140 > > WILLS AND BEQUESTS > The will of Lieutenant-Colonel Gabriel Burer, of Lymington, > Southampton, was proved in the London Court under £20,000 personalty, > The executors nominated are his two nephews, Charles Esse and > Frederick Esse, Esqrs., and Henry B. Farnall, Esq. The will and > codicil are dated 1853, and a second codicil 1862; the whole are in > the Colonel's own handwriting. The will is attested by Rear-Admiral > Thomas Symonds, O.B. and I. Falls, A.B., clerk. The testator has > bequeathed to his wife a life interest in the whole of his property > saving his ready money, cash at his bankers and army agents, which he > leaves to her for her own absolute use; and, upon her decease, he > leaves certain legacies to her nephews, and the residue of the > property to his own nephews and nieces, and other relatives. - > Illustrated News. > > Thanks for your help,> The following can easily be found with Google on the Genuki website..... Post-1858 wills for England and Wales can be consulted at the Probate Dept of The Principal Registry Family Division: Probate Search Room, First Avenue House, 42-49 High Holborn, London, WC1V 6NP Tel: 020 7947 7000 Postal applications for post-1858 wills for England and Wales should be sent to the Probate Office, Castle Chambers, Clifford Street, York. YO1 9RG. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

This isn't specific to Hertfordshire, but I was wondering if anyone could advise me how to get a copy of a will of someone who died in 1864? I found the following entry via the Newspaper link that someone posted: The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, May 14, 1864; Issue 8140 WILLS AND BEQUESTS The will of Lieutenant-Colonel Gabriel Burer, of Lymington, Southampton, was proved in the London Court under £20,000 personalty, The executors nominated are his two nephews, Charles Esse and Frederick Esse, Esqrs., and Henry B. Farnall, Esq. The will and codicil are dated 1853, and a second codicil 1862; the whole are in the Colonel's own handwriting. The will is attested by Rear-Admiral Thomas Symonds, O.B. and I. Falls, A.B., clerk. The testator has bequeathed to his wife a life interest in the whole of his property saving his ready money, cash at his bankers and army agents, which he leaves to her for her own absolute use; and, upon her decease, he leaves certain legacies to her nephews, and the residue of the property to his own nephews and nieces, and other relatives. - Illustrated News. Thanks for your help, Ruth ________________________________

From: Jan <[email protected]> > I don't look at it as making dangerous "assumptions". I look at it as > being another "possibility" to be researched. > PS: I have been a genealogist for 28 years, and every piece of > information in my database has been verified by at LEAST 2 > resources. By far, I am not an ameteur.> You seem to have misunderstood, Jan! My comments were most certainly not directed towards you but to Diana. I did not wish to waste bandwidth and space by repeating all her comments as well. I was pointing out to Diana, and not you, that it is dangerous to make assumptions from the IGI, especially entries based on private LDS submissions, which she appeared to be doing with her assuming that because John Cutler was married in 1773 he was born in 1748. I also added some information on the family you found at Tring when I found them in the 1841 census. I was also pointing out that there were a considerable number of William Cutlers in the 1841 and Diana should not assume that the one at Tring was hers. As I say, you have obviously misunderstood to whom my comments were directed. I was trying to be helpful to Diana and point out that assumptions are a dangerous thing in genealogy. Hope that is now clear? -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Dont have a go at Roy, he is only stating the obvious and trying to be helpful. As he says it is dangerous to make assumptions from LDS submitted entries. He is also a very respected genealogist and knows what he is talking about, and people would do well to take his advice. Patti ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Williams" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Charles Cutler > Whole heartedly agree - totally unnecessary attitude. > > Jean > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Jan > Sent: 28 March 2008 16:02 > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [HRT] Charles Cutler > > > I can't stomach the rude and condescending comments of some members. > Peace to all, > Thanks, > Jan, GC.C, BA (FS) > Palfery/Crane/Harper/Kenny > Family genealogist - 28 years > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: > 27/03/2008 > 10:03 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1347 - Release Date: > 27/03/2008 19:15 > > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 5025 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Whole heartedly agree - totally unnecessary attitude. Jean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Jan Sent: 28 March 2008 16:02 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [HRT] Charles Cutler I can't stomach the rude and condescending comments of some members. Peace to all, Thanks, Jan, GC.C, BA (FS) Palfery/Crane/Harper/Kenny Family genealogist - 28 years No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1346 - Release Date: 27/03/2008 10:03

_http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.genealogy.britain/browse_thread/thread/57a3 473bb5a883f7/318e1690fbeebbd3_ (http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.genealogy.britain/browse_thread/thread/57a3473bb5a883f7/318e1690fbeebbd3) check out this site Ruth - someone else is asking the same question. Could be known to you of course, but if not, they might have found it by now. Regards, Diana

From: [email protected] > Thanks Jan, that's great.> I keep telling you that you are making dangerous assumptions! The William Cutler posted by Jan may be the one you seek, but on the other hand he may not. For one thing, you said your William Cutler was born at Edgware or Tring. in 1816. A baptism in 1824 is by no means impossible, since many children were baptised late. But as I told you previously, these are simply not the same place at all and they are quite likely to be different men. Enter "William Cutler" with variants on the 1841 census and you get 166 results at findmypast.com. Most of these are Cutlers but a few are Cuttlers (with a double T) and there are a couple of CATLERs that could quite easily be Cutlers also. They are spread all over the country, so you must refine the search. The family that Jan posted, of John and Sophia Cutler at Tring, also had in their household the following: Ann and Eliza Cutler, both 20; William Cutler, 15; John Cutler, 1 month. The William is obviously the one that Jan found on the IGI but his age doesn't equate to a William Cutler born in or about 1816. The Ann and Eliza and John may not necessarily have been siblings of William, since the 1841 doesn't show relationships. And the Ann and Eliza could have been any age from 20 to 24, since ages in 1841 were reduced to the nearest lower multiple of five. Before saying "Great" you really ought to do more research, i.e. as I have suggested several times in the parish registers. You should NEVER construct a family tree just from the IGI and census returns, because you may be in danger of following the wrong family tree altogether. Please take the advice of an expert and one who has been at this game for over 30 years. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: [email protected] > Charles Cutler is detailed on the censuses as being born in Edgware, > Middlesex in 1816. Possibly a brother called William is listed as > being born also in Edgware (and sometimes Tring) in 1824. Can > anyone find records to verify this at all? If anyone has BMDs for this > area can they please look up any other possible > brothers/sisters/parents? I would be most grateful. > > They both ended up in Tring, Hertfordshire with all the other Cutlers > and I am wondering if Edgware actually came under the > Berkhampstead umbrella in those days? Or maybe the boys were > orphaned and sent to Tring to be brought up by family?> Forgive me for saying this but I have the impression that you are flailing around in the dark because you are unfamiliar with British geography and records. Firstly, there is no such thing as BMD records for the period 1816-1824. Civil registration of births, marriages and deaths did not start until 1st July 1837. Before that date what you get are baptisms, marriages and burials in parish registers. Sometimes birth and death dates were given but this varied considerably from parish to parish. Second, there is no possibility that Edgware and Tring were ever connected in any way. Edgware is in Middlesex, and now in north London, while Tring is some 25 miles away to the north-west in rural Hertfordshire. The two were totally separate parishes, not even adjacent to one another, nor have they ever been in the same registration district. The Tring registers are at the Hertford RO while the Edgware registers are at the London Metropolitan Archives. As I suggested in an earlier message (which you did not acknowledge) you would be best advised to hire a researcher to go and search them both. If I may ask another question, what makes you so convinced the Cutlers of Edgware and those of Tring are the same family? It is not exactly an uncommon surname. You do not say whether they were actually in the same household in the censuses. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE