Hi Rita, I have had a good look for your Hanscombe family and found who I believe they are..I have found the family of William and Sarah Hanscombe in the census of 1841,51,61 & 71. I found a marriage on www.familysearch.org for a William Hanscombe and Sarah Jarvis... not a Francios? In fact when I do a general search of all the census and historical records for England I find the name Francios comes up only twice in 1881 in all of England. I am happy to send the information I found as a word document to you rather than post so much information on the list. Let me know if you would like it. I have not been able to find the Hanscombe Rolfe marriage or find them on the census. What age was Elizabeth Ada Hanscombe when she married Joseph Rolfe and where did they marry and where did they live? Cheers Gay ----- Original Message ----- From: "rita woodcock" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 3:29 AM Subject: [HRT] Ref: Hanscombe/Rolfe > Good Evening List, > > I have an Elizabeth Ada Hanscombe marrying a Joseph Rolfe, who was born in > 1844 ,and died in 1924 and I wondered if someone could give me some more > information on Elizabeth Ada Hanscombe, as I have Handscombes in my line. > > My research tells me that her parents were William Hanscombe and Sarah > Francios so I would love to know any details of either of them as well > i.e. when they were born, married etc, to see if they fit in with my > ancestors. From Joseph I find that his father was a John Rolfe who was > married to Pocahontas, obviously if somewhere along my line we cross I > would love to research further. > > So far I have been unable to find out any dates so any information would > be gratefully received and I thank you for your time. > > Rita Woodcock - Norfolk UK > > > __________________________________________________________ > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release Date: 23/04/2008 7:16 PM

Have you looked on Gen-Circles there is an entry ROBERT HOWE -Birth: 2 FEB 1569 in Hatfield, Broad Oaks, Essex, England Death: 1608 in Boxted, Essex, England Father: William Howe Mother: Alice Alfield Spouse: Elizabeth Griffin Sex: M There are other entrys for Robert Howe perhaps you could get in touch with the Authors Derick ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Robert Howe > Yes, I understand the seperation of Hertfordshire and Essex. Since I have > had no luck on the Essex List, I thought the possibility existed of Martha > being a resident of a Hertfordshire village, she may have been married in > a Hertfordshire church, and later, with her husband moved to HBO. However, > in the Essex SEAX, there is also, no Margaret Whitmore or Robert Howe > listed. So, I am stuck facing a wall that I have been trying to climb over > for the past 20 years and find some shred of evidence of their existance; > that shows Robert was the father of James and Abraham as well as > information on his wife and his ancestors. Will just keep trying and grasp > at whatever information comes my way in hopes of catching a break. > > Dave Howe > -------------- Original message from "Maggie Perkins" > <[email protected]>: -------------- > > >> Hi again D. Howe >> >> As I have said before regarding Robert Howe and Margaret Whitmore, >> Hatfield >> Broad Oak is not in Hertfordshire but in the County of Essex. Tho' Essex >> borders onto Hertfordshire you might get answers if you subscribe to the >> Rootsweb Essex List. >> >> Their records are, of course, held at the Essex Record Office. >> >> Google for Hatfield Broad Oak Essex or look at the history of this place >> at >> http://www.historyhouse.co.uk/essexh06.html >> >> Maggie. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "HERTFORDSHIRE LIST" >> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:15 AM >> Subject: [HRT] Robert Howe >> >> >> > Has any one come across a Robert Howe b. 2 Feb 1569/70 m. Margaret >> > Whitmore? Robert also lived in Hatfield Broad Oak, has two sons Abraham >> > and James. >> > >> > D. Howe Florida >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG. >> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: >> > 4/20/2008 >> > 15:01 >> > >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi again D. Howe As I have said before regarding Robert Howe and Margaret Whitmore, Hatfield Broad Oak is not in Hertfordshire but in the County of Essex. Tho' Essex borders onto Hertfordshire you might get answers if you subscribe to the Rootsweb Essex List. Their records are, of course, held at the Essex Record Office. Google for Hatfield Broad Oak Essex or look at the history of this place at http://www.historyhouse.co.uk/essexh06.html Maggie. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: "HERTFORDSHIRE LIST" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: [HRT] Robert Howe > Has any one come across a Robert Howe b. 2 Feb 1569/70 m. Margaret > Whitmore? Robert also lived in Hatfield Broad Oak, has two sons Abraham > and James. > > D. Howe Florida > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 > 15:01 > >

Yes, I understand the seperation of Hertfordshire and Essex. Since I have had no luck on the Essex List, I thought the possibility existed of Martha being a resident of a Hertfordshire village, she may have been married in a Hertfordshire church, and later, with her husband moved to HBO. However, in the Essex SEAX, there is also, no Margaret Whitmore or Robert Howe listed. So, I am stuck facing a wall that I have been trying to climb over for the past 20 years and find some shred of evidence of their existance; that shows Robert was the father of James and Abraham as well as information on his wife and his ancestors. Will just keep trying and grasp at whatever information comes my way in hopes of catching a break. Dave Howe -------------- Original message from "Maggie Perkins" <[email protected]>: -------------- > Hi again D. Howe > > As I have said before regarding Robert Howe and Margaret Whitmore, Hatfield > Broad Oak is not in Hertfordshire but in the County of Essex. Tho' Essex > borders onto Hertfordshire you might get answers if you subscribe to the > Rootsweb Essex List. > > Their records are, of course, held at the Essex Record Office. > > Google for Hatfield Broad Oak Essex or look at the history of this place at > http://www.historyhouse.co.uk/essexh06.html > > Maggie. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "HERTFORDSHIRE LIST" > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:15 AM > Subject: [HRT] Robert Howe > > > > Has any one come across a Robert Howe b. 2 Feb 1569/70 m. Margaret > > Whitmore? Robert also lived in Hatfield Broad Oak, has two sons Abraham > > and James. > > > > D. Howe Florida > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1388 - Release Date: 4/20/2008 > > 15:01 > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good Evening List,   I have an Elizabeth Ada Hanscombe marrying a Joseph Rolfe, who was born in 1844 ,and died in 1924 and I wondered if someone could give me some more information on Elizabeth Ada Hanscombe, as I have Handscombes in my line.   My research tells me that her parents were William Hanscombe and Sarah Francios so I would love to know any details of either of them as well i.e. when they were born, married etc, to see if they fit in with my ancestors. From Joseph I find that his father was a John Rolfe who was married to Pocahontas, obviously if somewhere along my line we cross I would love to research further.   So far I have been unable to find out any dates so any information would be gratefully received and I thank you for your time.   Rita Woodcock - Norfolk UK __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Diana, The actual date dismissing the appeal was 8 January 1704/5 therefore making the actual year 1705 as we would know it nowadays. I have looked on my Herts County Records Sessions CD for any other mention of Joseph round that time but with no success I'm afraid. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Removal of a family >A lister has kindly been helping me with some queries on the Garnett family > of Kimpton and he found this reference: > > Herts Quarterly Sessions > Jan 8 1704-Order dismissing the Appeal of Whethamsted against a Warrent > removing Joseph Garnett and his Wife and Child from Kempton > > Can anybody explain what this means please. > > Thanks > > Diana > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: > 22/04/2008 15:51 > >

From: [email protected] > Thanks Roy, > > That could be the explanation why my ancestors were born in Bury St > Edmunds but then moved on to Thaxted which is quite a distance away. > I found some children with the same surname in the workhouse and > maybe this is what happened. I will look into the settlement > certificates for Essex and Suffoolk. > > Diana> It would also be well worth your while, as I suggested, getting somebody to check out the Hertford Record Office, too, to see whether there is a record of the examination of your family who were removed from Kimpton to Wheathampstead. Some of these examinations were quite detailed and give a little treasure-house of information about a family and their background. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: [email protected] > Many thanks to all of you who replied - I now understand. This was > something I knew nothing about and previously assumed that people > moved about looking for work or through work or marriage purposes. I > fing this all quite fascinating. > > If this Joseph Garnett is the one I am researching i.e. Joseph Garnett > of Kimpton (is there a place called Kempton in Hertfordshire?) then > this is a puzzle as Joseph Garnett - which one I don't know as there > were a few of them in the family - owned a canvas weaving business in > Tring. I have the will. So maybe after staying in Kimpton/Kempton > Joseph's luck improved! > > Thanks again for all your kind help.> Never make the mistake of looking at family history with a mindset of modern values! Yes, our ancestors did move around looking for work but the poor laws were harsh and if they fell on hard times and had to apply for assistance, the parish in which they were then resident was very keen not to have to keep them if it could possibly help it. Thus, the parish officers instigated an examination before magistrates who determined which was the family's official parish of residence and they issued pieces of paper called Settlement Certificates. If a family were deemed to have an official Settlement in another parish, then they were removed to that place under a Removal Order. Settlements were obtained in various ways and you should be able to discover what these were with some simple Googling. Just enter "Settle Certificates" or some similar term. One method of obtaining a Settlement was by birth or a woman took her Settlement as her husband's birth place. This led to some very cruel treatments and the worst case I ever heard of was a poor woman in Battersea, South London, whose husband died and she was left destitute. He had a Settlement in Ulverston in the Lake District and the woman was ordered to be removed from Battersea to Ulverston, a place she had almost certainly never seen in her life. She was transported some 200 miles by constables and at each county boundary she had to be "signed for" and handed over to another constable. A genealogist friend of mine found all the bits of paper still together in Carlisle Record Office and was able to reconstruct the woman's journey. One of the best lectures I ever heard. In answer to your question, it almost certainly was KIMPTON, since I can't find a Kempton in Hertfordshire. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> > From: [email protected] > > > A lister has kindly been helping me with some queries on the Garnett > > family of Kimpton and he found this reference: > > > > Herts Quarterly Sessions > > Jan 8 1704-Order dismissing the Appeal of Whethamsted against a > > Warrent removing Joseph Garnett and his Wife and Child from > > > Kempton > > > > Can anybody explain what this means please.> > > This was a case of a family who had been ordered to be removed back to > the parish where they had a settlement under the Poor Laws. > > Joseph Garnett and his wife and child were living at Kempton but fell > on hard times and applied for help from the Parish Officers. When this > happened, an investigation was held into where the family's legal > parish of Settlement was, i.e. from which they had a Settlement > Certificate. If it was found to be somewhere else, then the > magistrates could order them to be sent back to that parish, in this > case Wheathampstead. > > The parish poor law officers of Wheathampsted obviously didn't want > them to become a burden on them and appealed to the Quarter Sessions > against the decision. However, the appeal was dismissed and presumably > the Garnett family remained in Wheathampstead. > > Our ancestors lived in some very hard and cruel times!> I should have added that if your contact is anywhere near the Hertfordshire Record Office, there may still be an account of the Poor Law Examination by the magistrates. Where these survive, they can often supply valuable information about a family. There would undoubtedly have been an examination for the case to get as far as the Quarter Sessions. Whether it survives is another matter. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi, It means it was thrown out of court ,it meant Joseph Garnet was not turned out ,we will say could stay in his cottage And Whethamsted lost ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Removal of a family >A lister has kindly been helping me with some queries on the Garnett family > of Kimpton and he found this reference: > > Herts Quarterly Sessions > Jan 8 1704-Order dismissing the Appeal of Whethamsted against a Warrent > removing Joseph Garnett and his Wife and Child from Kempton > > Can anybody explain what this means please. > > Thanks > > Diana > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From: [email protected] > A lister has kindly been helping me with some queries on the Garnett > family of Kimpton and he found this reference: > > Herts Quarterly Sessions > Jan 8 1704-Order dismissing the Appeal of Whethamsted against a > Warrent removing Joseph Garnett and his Wife and Child from > > Kempton > > Can anybody explain what this means please.> This was a case of a family who had been ordered to be removed back to the parish where they had a settlement under the Poor Laws. Joseph Garnett and his wife and child were living at Kempton but fell on hard times and applied for help from the Parish Officers. When this happened, an investigation was held into where the family's legal parish of Settlement was, i.e. from which they had a Settlement Certificate. If it was found to be somewhere else, then the magistrates could order them to be sent back to that parish, in this case Wheathampstead. The parish poor law officers of Wheathampsted obviously didn't want them to become a burden on them and appealed to the Quarter Sessions against the decision. However, the appeal was dismissed and presumably the Garnett family remained in Wheathampstead. Our ancestors lived in some very hard and cruel times! I trust this is now clear? -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Diana. This refers to the poor law system under which a parish had to support anyone who belonged to it who fell on hard times. So parishes tried to removed paupers to their home parish to reduce their bills. In this case it seems that Kempton applied to have Joseph GARNETT and family removed to their ( home?) parish of Wheathampstead, which appealed, but the appeal was lost. Have a look at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ennever/stories/richard.htm for a fuller account of the system. HTH Anne On 22 Apr 2008, at 16:14, [email protected] wrote: > A lister has kindly been helping me with some queries on the Garnett > family > of Kimpton and he found this reference: > > Herts Quarterly Sessions > Jan 8 1704-Order dismissing the Appeal of Whethamsted against a > Warrent > removing Joseph Garnett and his Wife and Child from Kempton > > Can anybody explain what this means please. > > Thanks > > Diana >

Will do Roy. Thanks. Diana

Regarding: Yes, our ancestors did move around looking for work but the poor laws were harsh and if they fell on hard times and had to apply for assistance, the parish in which they were then resident was very keen not to have to keep them if it could possibly help it. Thus, the parish officers instigated an examination before magistrates who determined which was the family's official parish of residence and they issued pieces of paper called Settlement Certificates. If a family were deemed to have an official Settlement in another parish, then they were removed to that place under a Removal Order. Thanks Roy, That could be the explanation why my ancestors were born in Bury St Edmunds but then moved on to Thaxted which is quite a distance away. I found some children with the same surname in the workhouse and maybe this is what happened. I will look into the settlement certificates for Essex and Suffoolk. Diana

Many thanks to all of you who replied - I now understand. This was something I knew nothing about and previously assumed that people moved about looking for work or through work or marriage purposes. I fing this all quite fascinating. If this Joseph Garnett is the one I am researching i.e. Joseph Garnett of Kimpton (is there a place called Kempton in Hertfordshire?) then this is a puzzle as Joseph Garnett - which one I don't know as there were a few of them in the family - owned a canvas weaving business in Tring. I have the will. So maybe after staying in Kimpton/Kempton Joseph's luck improved! Thanks again for all your kind help. Diana

A lister has kindly been helping me with some queries on the Garnett family of Kimpton and he found this reference: Herts Quarterly Sessions Jan 8 1704-Order dismissing the Appeal of Whethamsted against a Warrent removing Joseph Garnett and his Wife and Child from Kempton Can anybody explain what this means please. Thanks Diana

Has any one come across a Robert Howe b. 2 Feb 1569/70 m. Margaret Whitmore? Robert also lived in Hatfield Broad Oak, has two sons Abraham and James. D. Howe Florida

Hi Celia, I think it was Sele Farm and it was in Hertford. Daphne New Zealand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: [HRT] Rejoiner - WILDMAN and MACKARETH interests > Hi list, rejoining to see if anyone here has interest in or knowledge of > people called WILDMAN and MACKARETH in Herts during the 18th century, > especially in Hertford itself. Also does anyone know where Seal Farm > might > have been in 1774? Arthur MACKARETH gent in his will just says it's in > Herts, which is not helpful, and not findable on current google map. > > Any help or hints will be appreciated and happy to supply info I have > about > these names in return. > > Regards, Celia Renshaw > in Chesterfield UK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 3041 (20080419) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

Hi Celia The Herts marriage index shows the marriage of Thomas WILDMAN to Mary MACKERETH at St Andrews church, Hertford, on 20 April 1757. Presumably Seal Farm may be in the vicinity. Michael Walsby researching BONFIELD, DRAPER, FROG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:25 PM Subject: [HRT] Rejoiner - WILDMAN and MACKARETH interests > Hi list, rejoining to see if anyone here has interest in or knowledge of > people called WILDMAN and MACKARETH in Herts during the 18th century, > especially in Hertford itself. Also does anyone know where Seal Farm might > have been in 1774? Arthur MACKARETH gent in his will just says it's in > Herts, which is not helpful, and not findable on current google map. > > Any help or hints will be appreciated and happy to supply info I have about > these names in return. > > Regards, Celia Renshaw > in Chesterfield UK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi list, rejoining to see if anyone here has interest in or knowledge of people called WILDMAN and MACKARETH in Herts during the 18th century, especially in Hertford itself. Also does anyone know where Seal Farm might have been in 1774? Arthur MACKARETH gent in his will just says it's in Herts, which is not helpful, and not findable on current google map. Any help or hints will be appreciated and happy to supply info I have about these names in return. Regards, Celia Renshaw in Chesterfield UK