Hi Tina: This is great. I will go thru it tonite and let you know if I need anything else. I was born in Hitchin a long time ago and in fact have just returned from the funeral of my mother. Living in the US limits me looking stuff up so I am so very grateful when I get help. Thanks again!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "TINA STEWART" <tina59@btinternet.com> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Hunt-Hitchin, Herts, UK > Hi > > I've found the following for you, please let me know what else you might > want to know:- > > 1841 census - HO 107 445 page 15 > George Hunt aged 25 - born 1816 > Mary Hunt aged 30 - 1811 > Emma Hunt aged 7 - 1834 > George Hunt aged 6 - 1835 > William Hunt aged 4 - 1837 > James Dilly aged 30 - 1811 > Edward Dilly aged 10 - 1831 > James Dilly aged 5 - 1836 > lived at Mill Yard, Hitchin, Hertfordshire > > 1851 - HO 107 1710 page 4 > George Hunt aged 35 - 1816 Coal Dealer > Mary Hunt wife aged 39 - 1812 > Emma Hunt daughter aged 17 - 1834 Straw Plaiter > George Hunt son aged 16 - 1835 ag Lab > William Hunt son aged 14 - 1837 ag Lab > Alfred Hunt son aged 9 - 1842 scholar > Selina Hunt daughter aged 2 - 1849 > Henry Hunt son aged 1 month - 1851 > lived - Portmill Lane, Hitchin > > 1861 - RG 09 818 page 16 > George Hunt aged 47 - 1814 Agricultural Labourer > Mary Hunt aged 49 - 1812 wife Ag Labs wife > Alfred Hunt son aged 18 - 1843 AgriculLaourer > Selina Hunt daughter aged 12 - 1849 scholar > Henry Hunt son aged 10 - 1851 scholar > Arthur Hunt son aged 5 - 1856 scholar > lived - Chapmans Yard, Back Street, Hitchin > > 1871 - RG 10 1368 page 19 > George Hunt aged 57 - 1814 > Mary Hunt wife aged 59 - 1812 > George Hunt son aged 19 - 1852 > Harry Hunt son aged 20 - 1851 > Arthur Hunt son aged 14 - 1857 > lived Back Street, Hitchin > > 1881 - RG 11 1419 page 17 > George Hunt aged 68 - 1813 gardener > Mary Hunt wife aged 69 - 1812 > Arthur Hunt son aged 24 - 1857 Railway Lab > George Goodship aged 27 - 1854 Brick layer - Boarder > Arthur Waller aged 19 - 1862 Confectioner - Boarder > George Marshall aged 19 - 1862 Brick maker - Boarder > lived Grocers Sho, Back Street, Hitchin > > 1891 - RG 12 1107 page 31 > Arthur Hunt aged 33 - 1858 Labourer > Elizabeth Hunt wife aged 32 - 1859 > Arthur Hunt son aged 9 - 1882 scholar > Emily Hunt daughter aged 8 - 1883 scholar > William Hunt son aged 6 - 1885 scholar > George Hunt son aged 3 - 1888 > Frederick Hunt son aged 6 months - 1891 > lived 4, Seymours Yard, Queen Street, Hitchin > > 1901 - RG 13 1302 page 33 > Arthur Hunt aged 42 - 1859 Railway Labourer > Elizabeth Hunt wife aged 40 - 1861 > Emily Hunt daughter aged 18 - 1883 General servant (Domestic) > William Hunt son aged 16 - 1885 Errand boy (Butcher's) > George Hunt son aged 12 - 1889 > Frederick Hunt son aged 10 - 1891 > Albert Hunt son aged 5 - 1896 > lived 8, Cambridge Terrace, Hitchin > > 1911 - RG14PN 597, RG78PN372, RD136 SD2 ED8 SN21 > Arthur Hunt aged 52 - 1859 Blacksmith Sticker > Elizabeth Hunt wife aged 51 - 1860 Household duties > have been married for 29 years > George Hunt son aged 22 - 1889 Insurance Collector > Thed / think this should be Frederick Hunt son aged 20 - 1891 Carman > Albert Hunt son aged 15 - 1896 Errand boy > lived 14, Florence Street, Hitchin > > Looks like all both in Hitchin or at least Hertfordshire. > > Hope the above helps > > > All the best > > Tina > > > +44 (0) 7748 388988 > > > > IMPORTANT > Unless otherwise agreed expressly in writing, this communication is to be > treated as confidential and the information in it may not be used or > disclosed except for the purpose for which it has been sent. > If you have reason to believe that you are not the intended recipient of > this communication, please contact the sender immediately. > WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted by E-Mail. The recipient > should check this E-Mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. > Tina accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted > by this E-Mail. > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: naig1313 <naig1313@atlantic.net> > To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, 17 November, 2009 16:55:06 > Subject: [HRT] Hunt-Hitchin, Herts, UK > > Searching for information on the following family. I live in the US and > would appreciate any help, Thanks. > > Arthur Hunt born July 1857 son of George Hunt and Mary Goodship. > Wife of Arthur was Elizabeth Newbury born 1856. > > Children: Arthur 1882 > Emily 1883 ( I remember her well) > William 1885 > George Bertram (my grandfather) 1888 d 1969 > buried in Willian, Herts married Susan Haydon of Willian. > Albert Edward 1896 > Frederick 1891 > > Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. > naig1313@atlantic.net > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 > 02:40:00 > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 02:40:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 02:40:00

Thank you. I am looking for any other information about this family. mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter@health.sdu.dk> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [HRT] Hunt-Hitchin, Herts, UK > The marriage was at Hitchin St Mary on 6 October 1833 according to > www.hertsdirect,org although it does not appear in the IGI transcription. > You can order the record online from HertsDirect. Anthony > > ________________________________ > > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of naig1313 > Sent: Tue 17-11-2009 17:55 > To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Hunt-Hitchin, Herts, UK > > > > Searching for information on the following family. I live in the US and > would appreciate any help, Thanks. > > Arthur Hunt born July 1857 son of George Hunt and Mary Goodship. > Wife of Arthur was Elizabeth Newbury born 1856. > > Children: Arthur 1882 > Emily 1883 ( I remember her well) > William 1885 > George Bertram (my grandfather) 1888 d 1969 > buried in Willian, Herts married Susan Haydon of Willian. > Albert Edward 1896 > Frederick 1891 > > Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. > naig1313@atlantic.net > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 > 02:40:00 > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 02:40:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 02:40:00

Searching for information on the following family. I live in the US and would appreciate any help, Thanks. Arthur Hunt born July 1857 son of George Hunt and Mary Goodship. Wife of Arthur was Elizabeth Newbury born 1856. Children: Arthur 1882 Emily 1883 ( I remember her well) William 1885 George Bertram (my grandfather) 1888 d 1969 buried in Willian, Herts married Susan Haydon of Willian. Albert Edward 1896 Frederick 1891 Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. naig1313@atlantic.net No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 02:40:00

Hi I've found the following for you, please let me know what else you might want to know:- 1841 census - HO 107 445 page 15 George Hunt aged 25 - born 1816 Mary Hunt aged 30 - 1811 Emma Hunt aged 7 - 1834 George Hunt aged 6 - 1835 William Hunt aged 4 - 1837 James Dilly aged 30 - 1811 Edward Dilly aged 10 - 1831 James Dilly aged 5 - 1836 lived at Mill Yard, Hitchin, Hertfordshire 1851 - HO 107 1710 page 4 George Hunt aged 35 - 1816 Coal Dealer Mary Hunt wife aged 39 - 1812 Emma Hunt daughter aged 17 - 1834 Straw Plaiter George Hunt son aged 16 - 1835 ag Lab William Hunt son aged 14 - 1837 ag Lab Alfred Hunt son aged 9 - 1842 scholar Selina Hunt daughter aged 2 - 1849 Henry Hunt son aged 1 month - 1851 lived - Portmill Lane, Hitchin 1861 - RG 09 818 page 16 George Hunt aged 47 - 1814 Agricultural Labourer Mary Hunt aged 49 - 1812 wife Ag Labs wife Alfred Hunt son aged 18 - 1843 AgriculLaourer Selina Hunt daughter aged 12 - 1849 scholar Henry Hunt son aged 10 - 1851 scholar Arthur Hunt son aged 5 - 1856 scholar lived - Chapmans Yard, Back Street, Hitchin 1871 - RG 10 1368 page 19 George Hunt aged 57 - 1814 Mary Hunt wife aged 59 - 1812 George Hunt son aged 19 - 1852 Harry Hunt son aged 20 - 1851 Arthur Hunt son aged 14 - 1857 lived Back Street, Hitchin 1881 - RG 11 1419 page 17 George Hunt aged 68 - 1813 gardener Mary Hunt wife aged 69 - 1812 Arthur Hunt son aged 24 - 1857 Railway Lab George Goodship aged 27 - 1854 Brick layer - Boarder Arthur Waller aged 19 - 1862 Confectioner - Boarder George Marshall aged 19 - 1862 Brick maker - Boarder lived Grocers Sho, Back Street, Hitchin 1891 - RG 12 1107 page 31 Arthur Hunt aged 33 - 1858 Labourer Elizabeth Hunt wife aged 32 - 1859 Arthur Hunt son aged 9 - 1882 scholar Emily Hunt daughter aged 8 - 1883 scholar William Hunt son aged 6 - 1885 scholar George Hunt son aged 3 - 1888 Frederick Hunt son aged 6 months - 1891 lived 4, Seymours Yard, Queen Street, Hitchin 1901 - RG 13 1302 page 33 Arthur Hunt aged 42 - 1859 Railway Labourer Elizabeth Hunt wife aged 40 - 1861 Emily Hunt daughter aged 18 - 1883 General servant (Domestic) William Hunt son aged 16 - 1885 Errand boy (Butcher's) George Hunt son aged 12 - 1889 Frederick Hunt son aged 10 - 1891 Albert Hunt son aged 5 - 1896 lived 8, Cambridge Terrace, Hitchin 1911 - RG14PN 597, RG78PN372, RD136 SD2 ED8 SN21 Arthur Hunt aged 52 - 1859 Blacksmith Sticker Elizabeth Hunt wife aged 51 - 1860 Household duties have been married for 29 years George Hunt son aged 22 - 1889 Insurance Collector Thed / think this should be Frederick Hunt son aged 20 - 1891 Carman Albert Hunt son aged 15 - 1896 Errand boy lived 14, Florence Street, Hitchin Looks like all both in Hitchin or at least Hertfordshire. Hope the above helps All the best Tina +44 (0) 7748 388988 IMPORTANT Unless otherwise agreed expressly in writing, this communication is to be treated as confidential and the information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose for which it has been sent. If you have reason to believe that you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please contact the sender immediately. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted by E-Mail. The recipient should check this E-Mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. Tina accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this E-Mail. ----- Original Message ---- From: naig1313 <naig1313@atlantic.net> To: eng-hertfordshire-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 17 November, 2009 16:55:06 Subject: [HRT] Hunt-Hitchin, Herts, UK Searching for information on the following family. I live in the US and would appreciate any help, Thanks. Arthur Hunt born July 1857 son of George Hunt and Mary Goodship. Wife of Arthur was Elizabeth Newbury born 1856. Children: Arthur 1882 Emily 1883 ( I remember her well) William 1885 George Bertram (my grandfather) 1888 d 1969 buried in Willian, Herts married Susan Haydon of Willian. Albert Edward 1896 Frederick 1891 Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. naig1313@atlantic.net No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.69/2508 - Release Date: 11/17/09 02:40:00 Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, January 9, 1830; Issue 4002. MARRIED At Rickmansworth, Edmund MORRIS, Esq., of Chorley Wood, Herts, to Laura, second daughter of Captain John RITSO.

>From Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, August 10, 1844; Issue 4763. DEATH At Hemel Hempstead, Mr. Thos. HYDE, schoolmaster, aged 70. Deceased was the inventor of the machine used for splitting straws for platting.

Apologies to the List - I intended to send my long reply to Elaine off- list! Frances >----Original Message---- >From: Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com >Date: 12/11/2009 9:34 >To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> >Subj: [HRT] Pauper apprentices > >Dear Hertfordshire Listers, > >I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in >Hertfordshire. This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes >"selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the >parish of the burden. As yet, I don't know the dates I shall be covering >but anticipate it being from 1750-1850. Rather than looking at youngsters >placed in factories, I'll be investigating single placements into local >businesses. > >Part of my effort will be trying to trace forward these pauper apprentice >boys (and girls) to see whether any of them remained in the trade to which >they were apprenticed or whether the apprenticeship scheme was just a >fiction for the master to obtain a few years cheap labour. This will >involve reading the various poor law/ workhouse/ charity /trade registers >for each of the Hertfordshire unions and trying to build up some kind of >biography for the boys and for the practice. > >I'm therefore asking whether anyone has found a Hertfordshire pauper >apprentice in their line and whether they have any information on what >happened to them post apprenticeship. I'm also looking for anyone who >suspects they might have an apprentice in their line or a pauper boy who >disappeared somewhere and I will be happy to compare names with my findings. > >In return, I'll post to the list any salient information and will respond >individually with family information, if I find it. > >Personal accounts of pauper apprentice life are virtually unknown so I'd be >incredibly grateful if anyone has come across anything relevant. So far my >only resource is "Oliver Twist"! > >The research will be undertaken between January and June of 2010 so, if >you'd like to send me details of missing relatives/ pauper boys or girls, >I'll build up a database to take with me to the records office and hopefully >be able to shed some light on some of your missing links. > >Many thanks and looking forward to receiving your lists, > >Elaine Saunders. > > > > >Hertfordshire Surnames List > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG- HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Fun games for all the family from Tiscali Play - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play

Hello Elaine I wish you great success with your dissertation on Pauper Apprentices. I do indeed have a couple of instances amongst my (infamous) Rogers clan of Cheshunt Hertfordshire. Way back in 1993 I was in touch with a distant Rogers cousin who had carried out extensive research on them, and found two workhouse-based Rogers children who were apprenticed out at age 12. We found very few marriages for any of the Rogers and, as my distant cousin stated, "few felt the need for their union to be blessed!". I will quote from his letter, and note the [ ] square brackets are mine: "Thomas Rogers was an agricultural labourer who was almost certainly born in Hammond Street [Cheshunt] or nearby. He(married) Sarah [Fitzjohn] in about 1778 and they had 13 children over the next 24 years. It is probable that Thomas and Sarah were in the Workhouse (then at Waltham Cross) by 1790, perhaps earlier. They were cetainly there between 1800 and 1810. Thomas doesn't appear in the rate book until after the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815, so it's possible he was away and Sarah had to cope alone. In 1800 [their son] George, now a workhouse child, seeems to have been found work by the parish with a Joseph Searing, a farmer of Rags Lane, near Hammond Steret. In 1806 his sister Sarah Rogers (also 12) was apprenticed out by the parish (a sure sign of a workhouse child as in "Oliver Twist") to a Thomas Mell of Shoreditch. Her future was probably hell on earth." This George was my g-g-g-grandfather. He went on to marry Ann bn. Barnet, surname unknown, and their first four children were all born in the 'Pest House' at Cheshunt, which appears to have been some kind of isolation ward attached to the workhouse specifically to house people with infectious diseases such as smallpox. My distant cousin told me that they were fed in the Pest House but otherwise left to their own devices, and allowed to stay on at the Pest House if they had nowhere else to go, which seemingly they did. The last of the first four children was born in 1818 and drowned, aged 4, in the nearby New River, College Road, by the bridge. His death appears to have triggered a move away fom Cheshunt for a few years, and a further four children were born, probably in Edmonton. George and Ann returned to Cheshunt around 1830 and lived in The Rookery, Windmill Road, a common and derogatory term for overcrowded and rundown housing. The 'Rogers boys' of Windmill Road were known to be loud and rowdy! I haven't carried out any further research on this family for quite a few years now, so it's possible that much more data is available online these days. I hope, however, that you might find it of interest, and I can of course send you attachments of anything you might find useful. I haven't had contact with this distant cousin for about 15 years so don't know if he is still at the same address. It was in the days of snail mail, unfortunately. He was a solicitor, and a very thorough researcher. Kind regards Frances Bedford Staines Middlesex >----Original Message---- >From: Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com >Date: 12/11/2009 9:34 >To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> >Subj: [HRT] Pauper apprentices > >Dear Hertfordshire Listers, > >I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in >Hertfordshire. This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes >"selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the >parish of the burden. As yet, I don't know the dates I shall be covering >but anticipate it being from 1750-1850. Rather than looking at youngsters >placed in factories, I'll be investigating single placements into local >businesses. > >Part of my effort will be trying to trace forward these pauper apprentice >boys (and girls) to see whether any of them remained in the trade to which >they were apprenticed or whether the apprenticeship scheme was just a >fiction for the master to obtain a few years cheap labour. This will >involve reading the various poor law/ workhouse/ charity /trade registers >for each of the Hertfordshire unions and trying to build up some kind of >biography for the boys and for the practice. > >I'm therefore asking whether anyone has found a Hertfordshire pauper >apprentice in their line and whether they have any information on what >happened to them post apprenticeship. I'm also looking for anyone who >suspects they might have an apprentice in their line or a pauper boy who >disappeared somewhere and I will be happy to compare names with my findings. > >In return, I'll post to the list any salient information and will respond >individually with family information, if I find it. > >Personal accounts of pauper apprentice life are virtually unknown so I'd be >incredibly grateful if anyone has come across anything relevant. So far my >only resource is "Oliver Twist"! > >The research will be undertaken between January and June of 2010 so, if >you'd like to send me details of missing relatives/ pauper boys or girls, >I'll build up a database to take with me to the records office and hopefully >be able to shed some light on some of your missing links. > >Many thanks and looking forward to receiving your lists, > >Elaine Saunders. > > > > >Hertfordshire Surnames List > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG- HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Fun games for all the family from Tiscali Play - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play

Hi Elaine, Sounds like an interesting dissertation. I am sending off-list details of Alfred FOSKETT who was born in the work-house in Ware, Herts and sent to a school in Cardiff. He eventually married and raised his family in South Wales, where he worked in the steel works as a blacksmith. Regards Sandra Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Saunders" <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: [HRT] Pauper apprentices > Dear Hertfordshire Listers, > > I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in > Hertfordshire. This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes > "selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the > parish of the burden. <snipped> _______________________________________ No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.8.3 http://www.iolo.com

On 12 Nov 2009 at 9:34, Elaine Saunders wrote: > Dear Hertfordshire Listers, > > I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in > Hertfordshire. This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes > "selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the > parish of the burden. As yet, I don't know the dates I shall be > covering but anticipate it being from 1750-1850. Rather than looking > at youngsters placed in factories, I'll be investigating single > placements into local businesses. > > Part of my effort will be trying to trace forward these pauper > apprentice boys (and girls) to see whether any of them remained in the > trade to which they were apprenticed or whether the apprenticeship > scheme was just a fiction for the master to obtain a few years cheap > labour. This will involve reading the various poor law/ workhouse/ > charity /trade registers for each of the Hertfordshire unions and > trying to build up some kind of biography for the boys and for the > practice. > I am sure this will be a worthwhile and interesting project and no doubt of use to others. However, I have a slight concern, from the wording of your message, that you may be approaching it with some pre-conceptions and ideas of apportioning blame, etc. Could I respectfully suggest that when one is researching and writing about the past you should always rid your mind entirely of a mindset of modern values and attempt to project yourself into the lives and attitudes of those who were alive in the era you are studying, without any attempt to make judgements based on modern attitudes? Modern political correctness, and seeing things from a present-day point of view, has absolutely no place when studying the past. We can only ever examine historical events that happened, say, 200 years ago within the context of the times as they were experienced then. I could tell you some horrendous stories of child labour exploitation in the 19th century in my own home town of Bradford, Yorks. I have details of a report in the 1840s of the living conditions of the woolcombers and they make grim reading. However, the point is that that was THEN and today is NOW. Things do gradually change, due to the efforts of social reformers, but we should never make the mistake of condemning our ancestors for some of the dreadful things they may have done. As we all know, hindsight is a wonderful thing! As another lister has pointed out, many pauper children who were apprenticed by the parish were probably saved from a life of crime and poverty by being taught a trade. Not all masters were bad, as often personified by Dickens, and I do hope you will not approach this project with a pre-conceived view that they were all bad. Good luck with it. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Dear Elaine, What a fascinating project. I have a girl who would fit your time frame but perhaps not your area. Lydia Catley was examined at the workhouse and removed from Codicote to St Katherine Creechurch. The City of London poor law commissioners promptly sent her to Norwood for training (it is doubtful she had ever set foot there before). If this is of interest I will send you the full details of her life history off list. Anthony ________________________________ Fra: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com på vegne af Elaine Saunders Sendt: to 12-11-2009 10:34 Til: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Emne: [HRT] Pauper apprentices Dear Hertfordshire Listers, I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in Hertfordshire. This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes "selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the parish of the burden. As yet, I don't know the dates I shall be covering but anticipate it being from 1750-1850. Rather than looking at youngsters placed in factories, I'll be investigating single placements into local businesses. Part of my effort will be trying to trace forward these pauper apprentice boys (and girls) to see whether any of them remained in the trade to which they were apprenticed or whether the apprenticeship scheme was just a fiction for the master to obtain a few years cheap labour. This will involve reading the various poor law/ workhouse/ charity /trade registers for each of the Hertfordshire unions and trying to build up some kind of biography for the boys and for the practice. I'm therefore asking whether anyone has found a Hertfordshire pauper apprentice in their line and whether they have any information on what happened to them post apprenticeship. I'm also looking for anyone who suspects they might have an apprentice in their line or a pauper boy who disappeared somewhere and I will be happy to compare names with my findings. In return, I'll post to the list any salient information and will respond individually with family information, if I find it. Personal accounts of pauper apprentice life are virtually unknown so I'd be incredibly grateful if anyone has come across anything relevant. So far my only resource is "Oliver Twist"! The research will be undertaken between January and June of 2010 so, if you'd like to send me details of missing relatives/ pauper boys or girls, I'll build up a database to take with me to the records office and hopefully be able to shed some light on some of your missing links. Many thanks and looking forward to receiving your lists, Elaine Saunders. Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, November 26, 1881; Issue 6715. MARRIAGE Nov. 17, at Holy Trinity Church, New Barnet, Herts, by the Rev. G. YEATS, Vicar, Sydney John BURY, of Wittenham, Lyonsdown, New Barnet, to Florence DUDLEY, younger daughter of Robert HURMAN, Esq., of Avondale, New Barnet, and formerly Head-Master of the Oxford Diocesan School, Cowley.

Dear Hertfordshire Listers, I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in Hertfordshire. This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes "selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the parish of the burden. As yet, I don't know the dates I shall be covering but anticipate it being from 1750-1850. Rather than looking at youngsters placed in factories, I'll be investigating single placements into local businesses. Part of my effort will be trying to trace forward these pauper apprentice boys (and girls) to see whether any of them remained in the trade to which they were apprenticed or whether the apprenticeship scheme was just a fiction for the master to obtain a few years cheap labour. This will involve reading the various poor law/ workhouse/ charity /trade registers for each of the Hertfordshire unions and trying to build up some kind of biography for the boys and for the practice. I'm therefore asking whether anyone has found a Hertfordshire pauper apprentice in their line and whether they have any information on what happened to them post apprenticeship. I'm also looking for anyone who suspects they might have an apprentice in their line or a pauper boy who disappeared somewhere and I will be happy to compare names with my findings. In return, I'll post to the list any salient information and will respond individually with family information, if I find it. Personal accounts of pauper apprentice life are virtually unknown so I'd be incredibly grateful if anyone has come across anything relevant. So far my only resource is "Oliver Twist"! The research will be undertaken between January and June of 2010 so, if you'd like to send me details of missing relatives/ pauper boys or girls, I'll build up a database to take with me to the records office and hopefully be able to shed some light on some of your missing links. Many thanks and looking forward to receiving your lists, Elaine Saunders.

Hi Frances, I'm please you did reply to the list, as it's such an eye opener to what did go on back then, how would today's paupers fair, no where near as good as those back then, and I found it very interesting, and good luck to Elaine on your quest. Also I see the surname Searing, this could be an ancestry of mind or a distant cousin / relation. All the best Tina Researching - Chaplins with Bacon, Harvey, Burham or Burman, Framingham and Bumstead in Suffolk Chalpins with Fletchers, Eyres, Duxford and Dale in Hertfordshire Stewarts with Firminger, Bailey, West, Hooker, Strand, Gravener and Hoile in Kent Dale and Ingram in Leciestershire Jones and Gill in Staffordshire Jones in Shropshire Jones and Blackmore in Wales +44 (0) 7748 388988 IMPORTANT Unless otherwise agreed expressly in writing, this communication is to be treated as confidential and the information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose for which it has been sent. If you have reason to believe that you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please contact the sender immediately. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted by E-Mail. The recipient should check this E-Mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. Tina accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this E-Mail. ----- Original Message ---- From: "frances.bedford@lineone.net" <frances.bedford@lineone.net> To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 12 November, 2009 13:16:27 Subject: Re: [HRT] Pauper apprentices Apologies to the List - I intended to send my long reply to Elaine off- list! Frances >----Original Message---- >From: Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com >Date: 12/11/2009 9:34 >To: <eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com> >Subj: [HRT] Pauper apprentices > >Dear Hertfordshire Listers, > >I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in >Hertfordshire. This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes >"selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the >parish of the burden. As yet, I don't know the dates I shall be covering >but anticipate it being from 1750-1850. Rather than looking at youngsters >placed in factories, I'll be investigating single placements into local >businesses. > >Part of my effort will be trying to trace forward these pauper apprentice >boys (and girls) to see whether any of them remained in the trade to which >they were apprenticed or whether the apprenticeship scheme was just a >fiction for the master to obtain a few years cheap labour. This will >involve reading the various poor law/ workhouse/ charity /trade registers >for each of the Hertfordshire unions and trying to build up some kind of >biography for the boys and for the practice. > >I'm therefore asking whether anyone has found a Hertfordshire pauper >apprentice in their line and whether they have any information on what >happened to them post apprenticeship. I'm also looking for anyone who >suspects they might have an apprentice in their line or a pauper boy who >disappeared somewhere and I will be happy to compare names with my findings. > >In return, I'll post to the list any salient information and will respond >individually with family information, if I find it. > >Personal accounts of pauper apprentice life are virtually unknown so I'd be >incredibly grateful if anyone has come across anything relevant. So far my >only resource is "Oliver Twist"! > >The research will be undertaken between January and June of 2010 so, if >you'd like to send me details of missing relatives/ pauper boys or girls, >I'll build up a database to take with me to the records office and hopefully >be able to shed some light on some of your missing links. > >Many thanks and looking forward to receiving your lists, > >Elaine Saunders. > > > > >Hertfordshire Surnames List > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG- HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Fun games for all the family from Tiscali Play - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

        Hi,   this is a very fascinating subject  .  Your best bet is the A2A site of the National Archives , or HALS of course.   Whilst you are right that these children were a commoditiy , the parish saving money by placing them in farming or manufacturing families , and those families saving money on paying the poor rate for their premises because they had a parish pauper , it sometimes worked for the good of the child who may have been in  a  family of poor labourers who could not afford to feed their huge families    .  And in small communities the churchwardens and overseers did do their job and often I think you may find the apprenticeship did work out and it gave the pauper apprentice a training to earn their own living .   Don`t believe all that Dickens tells you !!!!  some of my N Devon paupers did very well and one in particular go on so well that he was able to emigrate to Australia , paying for his own passage , and made a good success of his life .  His siblings who were not placed in parish apprenticeships did not succeed in getting out of the rut of ag lab poverty.      ________________________________ From: Elaine Saunders <Elaine_Saunders@completetext.com> To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 12 November, 2009 9:34:59 Subject: [HRT] Pauper apprentices Dear Hertfordshire Listers, I'm about to begin a master's dissertation on Pauper Apprentices in Hertfordshire.  This follows the practice of workhouses and parishes "selling" the young poor into apprenticeships, therefore relieving the parish of the burden.    As yet, I don't know the dates I shall be covering but anticipate it being from 1750-1850.  Rather than looking at youngsters placed in factories, I'll be investigating single placements into local businesses. Part of my effort will be trying to trace forward these pauper apprentice boys (and girls) to see whether any of them remained in the trade to which they were apprenticed or whether the apprenticeship scheme was just a fiction for the master to obtain a few years cheap labour.  This will involve reading the various poor law/ workhouse/ charity /trade registers for each of the Hertfordshire unions and trying to build up some kind of biography for the boys and for the practice. I'm therefore asking whether anyone has found a Hertfordshire pauper apprentice in their line and whether they have any information on what happened to them post apprenticeship.  I'm also looking for anyone who suspects they might have an apprentice in their line or a pauper boy who disappeared somewhere and I will be happy to compare names with my findings. In return, I'll post to the list any salient information and will respond individually with family information, if I find it. Personal accounts of pauper apprentice life are virtually unknown so I'd be incredibly grateful if anyone has come across anything relevant.  So far my only resource is "Oliver Twist"! The research will be undertaken between January and June of 2010 so, if you'd like to send me details of missing relatives/ pauper boys or girls, I'll build up a database to take with me to the records office and hopefully be able to shed some light on some of your missing links. Many thanks and looking forward to receiving your lists, Elaine Saunders. Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers, During the 1st WW there was a VAD Hospital at The Beeches, Berkhamsted. Does any lister know where this hospital was in Berkhamsted as I cannot locate it on the Web. My Great Aunt was a nurse there and married one of the men she had been treating. >From John Halsey.

Thank you for your replies Anthony and Michael. Thomas was a Bookbinder. My relationship is actually through Eliza ABSOLON, but I would really love to know if their girls lived to marry and have families. Regards Estelle > Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 13:27:39 +0100 > From: ACarter@health.sdu.dk > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > Estelle: Was he a cabinet maker? If so it is worth looking at the > baptisms from London Metropolitan Archives recently published on > Ancestry. Three at least are from Hoxton, which is not too far from > Clerkenwell. Anthony > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Estelle > Daniels > Sent: 6. november 2009 12:57 > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > > Hi Michael, > You wouldnt have any strays in your certificate collection for a Thomas > William SMITH b. c1826 Clerkenwell; or his wife, Eliza Amelia nee > ABSOLON, or any of their children would you? Children were all girls I > believe. I thought it may just be possible that you may have come > across them, as Eliza's parents - Susan/nah STONE and John ABSOLON were > married in Rickmansworth. Thomas was a Bookbinder. So far I have been > able to identify - Eliza A; Susannah; Amelia; Sarah; Eleanor and Leila > Mary were the SMITH girls all born between c1849 and c1865. This family > I think is my only hope for any distant cousins that may have remained > in England. > > > > Regards > > Estelle (in Australia) > > > From: michael@allbrook.com > > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 08:18:52 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > > > Thank you very much. I have struggled to find the information about > this > > family and I still can not find the death of my Great Grandmother Mary > Ann > > Smith or her son Frank nor do I know where they lived after 1911. Very > > difficult but one day...In the meantime I am assembling a very fine > > collection of Death Certificates for Smith! > > Thank you again > > Michael Allbrook > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > > ceaster99@aol.com > > Sent: 05 November 2009 07:49 > > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > > > Michael Allbrook wrote: > > > > <It is of course typical of our hobby that the son who interests me is > > > John SMITH who is not there!> > > > > I have found the children of the family including John James Smith and > > > below are the births (except one) and christenings of all the > children. > > > > Rickmansworth records from Vital Records of England on Ancestry.com > > These are also on Family Search Pilot > > Henry Hislop Smith 21 Aug 1817 18 Jan 1818 > > Louisa Smith 27 Dec 1818 > > Charles Augustus Smith 27 Mar 1820 31 Dec 1820 > > Thomas Smith 28 Jan 1822 18 Apr 1822 > > John James Smith 18 Aug 1823 19 Apr 1824 through this child mother > > Elizabeth > > Emma Jane Smith 18 Mar 1825 18 Jul 1825 here mother Elizabeth > > Margaret > > George Smith 7 Mar 1827 21 Jul 1827 rest mother Elizabeth or > > Elisabeth > > Eliza Margaret Smith 8 May 1828 8 May 1828 > > Ellen Ann Smith 14 Apr 1830 10 Jul 1830 > > Clara Smith 4 Dec 1833 13 Jul 1834 > > Julia Smith 20 Jun 1836 25 Mar 1837 > > > > Charlotte > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > > > > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area! > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/ > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ For more of what happens online Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/blog.aspx

Hi Michael, You wouldnt have any strays in your certificate collection for a Thomas William SMITH b. c1826 Clerkenwell; or his wife, Eliza Amelia nee ABSOLON, or any of their children would you? Children were all girls I believe. I thought it may just be possible that you may have come across them, as Eliza's parents - Susan/nah STONE and John ABSOLON were married in Rickmansworth. Thomas was a Bookbinder. So far I have been able to identify - Eliza A; Susannah; Amelia; Sarah; Eleanor and Leila Mary were the SMITH girls all born between c1849 and c1865. This family I think is my only hope for any distant cousins that may have remained in England. Regards Estelle (in Australia) > From: michael@allbrook.com > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 08:18:52 +0000 > Subject: Re: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > Thank you very much. I have struggled to find the information about this > family and I still can not find the death of my Great Grandmother Mary Ann > Smith or her son Frank nor do I know where they lived after 1911. Very > difficult but one day...In the meantime I am assembling a very fine > collection of Death Certificates for Smith! > Thank you again > Michael Allbrook > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > ceaster99@aol.com > Sent: 05 November 2009 07:49 > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > Michael Allbrook wrote: > > <It is of course typical of our hobby that the son who interests me is > John SMITH who is not there!> > > I have found the children of the family including John James Smith and > below are the births (except one) and christenings of all the children. > > Rickmansworth records from Vital Records of England on Ancestry.com > These are also on Family Search Pilot > Henry Hislop Smith 21 Aug 1817 18 Jan 1818 > Louisa Smith 27 Dec 1818 > Charles Augustus Smith 27 Mar 1820 31 Dec 1820 > Thomas Smith 28 Jan 1822 18 Apr 1822 > John James Smith 18 Aug 1823 19 Apr 1824 through this child mother > Elizabeth > Emma Jane Smith 18 Mar 1825 18 Jul 1825 here mother Elizabeth > Margaret > George Smith 7 Mar 1827 21 Jul 1827 rest mother Elizabeth or > Elisabeth > Eliza Margaret Smith 8 May 1828 8 May 1828 > Ellen Ann Smith 14 Apr 1830 10 Jul 1830 > Clara Smith 4 Dec 1833 13 Jul 1834 > Julia Smith 20 Jun 1836 25 Mar 1837 > > Charlotte > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

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Estelle: Was he a cabinet maker? If so it is worth looking at the baptisms from London Metropolitan Archives recently published on Ancestry. Three at least are from Hoxton, which is not too far from Clerkenwell. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Estelle Daniels Sent: 6. november 2009 12:57 To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth Hi Michael, You wouldnt have any strays in your certificate collection for a Thomas William SMITH b. c1826 Clerkenwell; or his wife, Eliza Amelia nee ABSOLON, or any of their children would you? Children were all girls I believe. I thought it may just be possible that you may have come across them, as Eliza's parents - Susan/nah STONE and John ABSOLON were married in Rickmansworth. Thomas was a Bookbinder. So far I have been able to identify - Eliza A; Susannah; Amelia; Sarah; Eleanor and Leila Mary were the SMITH girls all born between c1849 and c1865. This family I think is my only hope for any distant cousins that may have remained in England. Regards Estelle (in Australia) > From: michael@allbrook.com > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 08:18:52 +0000 > Subject: Re: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > Thank you very much. I have struggled to find the information about this > family and I still can not find the death of my Great Grandmother Mary Ann > Smith or her son Frank nor do I know where they lived after 1911. Very > difficult but one day...In the meantime I am assembling a very fine > collection of Death Certificates for Smith! > Thank you again > Michael Allbrook > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hertfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > ceaster99@aol.com > Sent: 05 November 2009 07:49 > To: eng-hertfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HRT] Joshua SMITH, Headmaster, Rickmansworth > > Michael Allbrook wrote: > > <It is of course typical of our hobby that the son who interests me is > John SMITH who is not there!> > > I have found the children of the family including John James Smith and > below are the births (except one) and christenings of all the children. > > Rickmansworth records from Vital Records of England on Ancestry.com > These are also on Family Search Pilot > Henry Hislop Smith 21 Aug 1817 18 Jan 1818 > Louisa Smith 27 Dec 1818 > Charles Augustus Smith 27 Mar 1820 31 Dec 1820 > Thomas Smith 28 Jan 1822 18 Apr 1822 > John James Smith 18 Aug 1823 19 Apr 1824 through this child mother > Elizabeth > Emma Jane Smith 18 Mar 1825 18 Jul 1825 here mother Elizabeth > Margaret > George Smith 7 Mar 1827 21 Jul 1827 rest mother Elizabeth or > Elisabeth > Eliza Margaret Smith 8 May 1828 8 May 1828 > Ellen Ann Smith 14 Apr 1830 10 Jul 1830 > Clara Smith 4 Dec 1833 13 Jul 1834 > Julia Smith 20 Jun 1836 25 Mar 1837 > > Charlotte > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > > > Hertfordshire Surnames List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/ Hertfordshire Surnames List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/hertford.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HERTFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message