I note that the thread from my original posting has become quite a topic of discussion. I thought the following article from 1800 may be of interest and give an indication of the money that could be involved in such an enterprise. Such a fine would be hard for many people to pay today, 200 years on......... Daily Advertiser, Saturday 12th July 1800 In an action, the King against SMITH, for attempting to defraud the Revenue, and bribe the Revenue Officers, it appeared that the defendant who is a Hop-Planter in Herefordshire, after four unmarked pockets of Hops had been siezed in an unentered room by two Officers of the Excise, pulled a handful of gold and silver from his pocket, offered them five guineas each and his note for as much as would make them up to forty guineas; but they removed the Hops and lodged an information against him. The charge being proved, the Jury without hesitation found the Defendant Guilty - Penalty five hundred pounds. Diane J.

Many thanks for this Terry. My real interest is not in the casual labour for picking but in the permanent labour for year-round care and attention. My (limited) horticultural experience is that anything that grows that far and that fast must be on native ground or a weed or require quite a lot of knowledgeable attention to be sure it performs the way that is wanted. cheers, David On 30/05/2008, at 2:03 AM, TERRY DIPPLE wrote: > David - by the time we got there, they were already flowering (late > Aug/Sep). They grew in long rows about 100/200 yds up strings about > 6/7' > high attached to wires, forming "binds" (like grape-vines) which had > sharp > bristles. Pole-pullers (like my father, taking a long holiday from > coal-mining) would cut them down using a sharp hook on the end of a > long > pole. They would be thrown into a "crib" made from sacking, and the > women > and girls would pick the hops (no leaves) off the binds (I played > the gipsy > twins). Twice a day a "busheler" would come and "bushelem up", and > we would > get paid/bushel. They would then be taken into the oast houses to > dry. The > only chemical I can remember being used was Sulphur (probably for > killing > some bugs). There is a book on hop-picking you can buy from Bromyard > FHS. > Regards - Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:24 AM > To: eng-hereford@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops > > Hi Terry, I'd agree but I still need to know if any particular name > was given to people with the necessary expertise to look after the > plants - or was / is it a simple and straightforward crop - like peas > or beans or whatever. You know, you plant them, prop them up, > harvest them then clear away the mess (or burn or dig it in?). I > suspect some of my / our family may have done just that. Was hoping > for some clues. > Cheers > David > > On 30/05/2008, at 1:00 AM, TERRY DIPPLE wrote: > >> David - I used to go "hop-picking" from 1-6 years of age, at Leaks' >> farm - >> Withington, Herfs. I would have thought if someone from >> Worestershire had a >> notice in a London paper, they would have married the daughter of a >> landowner/farmer of hops, not a ag. Lab planting hops. >> Terry (Ohio) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell >> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:18 AM >> To: Herefordshire Rootsweb >> Subject: [HEF] Hops >> >> Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of >> people whose main occupation was growing hops? >> Or was this perforce a seasonal occupation? >> (so at census time they would not have been doing that?) >> Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have required >> enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? >> >> I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. >> Might this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from >> an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? >> >> Thanks for any advice, >> David >> >> "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London >> A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & >> Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr >> James >> OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire >> Diane J." >> ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- >> A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- >> A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Steve - I think they had something to do with brown and white cattle too. And don't forget about damsons and mistletoe. Terry - still up after the Reds beat the Braves -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stephen J. Kelsey Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:35 PM To: eng-hereford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Wasn't Herefordshire very well known for perry" Steve Kelsey -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of TERRY DIPPLE Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:29 PM To: eng-hereford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Heather - sometimes it's good to discuss a topic like hop-picking for its historic value, rather answering questions from people whose initials seem invariably to be SKS, who are too cheap to subscribe to Ancestry, or walk/drive to their library where it is free. However, I know that topics like hop-picking/growing can become tiresome, but that's where the administrator should cut it short. Regards - Terry P.S. anybody know about cider-apple growing? -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather & Chris Lord Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:22 PM To: 'David Daniell'; 'Herefordshire Rootsweb' Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi David I have plenty of other ways to occupy my time than to write to the list. I write to the list when I have a query, or when I have something to say which may help another lister. What I was trying to point out - and what I said in my 2nd message to the list - is that the occupation would've been simply "Farmer" or "Hop Grower". Heather -----Original Message----- From: David Daniell [mailto:ddaniell@woosh.co.nz] Sent: 31 May 2008 07:06 To: Herefordshire Rootsweb; Heather & Chris Lord Cc: TERRY DIPPLE Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi Heather, This is nice of you. I have never expressed interest in or been interested in the picking of hops or whoever may have done it! That is just what everyone wants to write to the List about or to me about! And that is, I suppose, what a List is "about", what people Want to write in about. From the first line of my first letter to the list on Hops - this is what I want to know: "Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of people whose main occupation was growing hops?" (first line of message dated 30 May 2008) I've explained why I doubt some of the commentary since made. thanks david On 31/05/2008, at 10:20 AM, Heather & Chris Lord wrote: > Hi David and all > > My great grandfather was involved in hop growing in Kent. (It is > believed > that he owned the smallest oast house in Kent, and one of the oldest). > > My Mum wrote a piece about her childhood, part of which says > > "Until WW2 my mother did not work outside the home, except for the > annual 3 > weeks spent picking hops at Harold Wilkinson's farm at Farningham, > on the > Benenden/Golford road, where my grandfather Santer was the hop drier, > working day and night in the oast where he had a rough bed. Aunt > Edie would > cycle from Golford with his meals. Drying hops was a very skilled > job, and > the fire, which in those days was a coal one, needed expert > attention." > > and: > > "Depending on the number of pickers in a family was the decision to > have a > bin or half a bin. Hops were picked in bins which were constructed > from > sacking secured to a wooden pole frame and, I think, would hold > around 40 > bushels. We picked in sets, so many bins to a set and so > many"hills". A hill > contained a certain number of "bines". When a set had been cleared, > the bins > were moved to another set. In this way every one had a share of > "good" and > "bad" sets. > > Earlier in the year, about May, women had been employed in hop > training. The > best bines in each hill were selected to grow up the strings to the > overhead > wire framework, and the weaker ones pulled out. The hops had to be > trained > three times with a period of time between each training. Aunt Nell > was a > regular and experienced hop trainer and later my mother did > training,though > not at the same farm. Hop training was also called hop tying." > > Hope this helps > Regards > Heather > now in Oz > but born & bred in Kent > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell > Sent: 29 May 2008 20:18 > To: Herefordshire Rootsweb > Subject: [HEF] Hops > > > Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of > people whose main occupation was growing hops? Or was this perforce a > seasonal occupation? (so at census time they would not have been doing > that?) Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have > required enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? > > I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. > Might > this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from > an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? > > Thanks for any advice, > David > > "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London > A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & > Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr > James OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire > Diane J." > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Polly, It seems Hereford&Worcester people are sensible and very rational (as well as being unusually nice people). If you 'ave Orchyards you Must 'ave 'Opyards: see OED on etymology of Orchard: "Prob. < classical Latin hortus garden (see HORTICULTURE n.) + YARD" I think I am going to have to pick a census and a hop-growing parish and go through to see if I can identify people who cultivate them. According to the magnificent Herefordshire Field Names database my parish-of-particular-interest has 38 of them (hopyards). Thanks Polly. David

Heather - sometimes it's good to discuss a topic like hop-picking for its historic value, rather answering questions from people whose initials seem invariably to be SKS, who are too cheap to subscribe to Ancestry, or walk/drive to their library where it is free. However, I know that topics like hop-picking/growing can become tiresome, but that's where the administrator should cut it short. Regards - Terry P.S. anybody know about cider-apple growing? -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather & Chris Lord Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:22 PM To: 'David Daniell'; 'Herefordshire Rootsweb' Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi David I have plenty of other ways to occupy my time than to write to the list. I write to the list when I have a query, or when I have something to say which may help another lister. What I was trying to point out - and what I said in my 2nd message to the list - is that the occupation would've been simply "Farmer" or "Hop Grower". Heather -----Original Message----- From: David Daniell [mailto:ddaniell@woosh.co.nz] Sent: 31 May 2008 07:06 To: Herefordshire Rootsweb; Heather & Chris Lord Cc: TERRY DIPPLE Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi Heather, This is nice of you. I have never expressed interest in or been interested in the picking of hops or whoever may have done it! That is just what everyone wants to write to the List about or to me about! And that is, I suppose, what a List is "about", what people Want to write in about. From the first line of my first letter to the list on Hops - this is what I want to know: "Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of people whose main occupation was growing hops?" (first line of message dated 30 May 2008) I've explained why I doubt some of the commentary since made. thanks david On 31/05/2008, at 10:20 AM, Heather & Chris Lord wrote: > Hi David and all > > My great grandfather was involved in hop growing in Kent. (It is > believed > that he owned the smallest oast house in Kent, and one of the oldest). > > My Mum wrote a piece about her childhood, part of which says > > "Until WW2 my mother did not work outside the home, except for the > annual 3 > weeks spent picking hops at Harold Wilkinson's farm at Farningham, > on the > Benenden/Golford road, where my grandfather Santer was the hop drier, > working day and night in the oast where he had a rough bed. Aunt > Edie would > cycle from Golford with his meals. Drying hops was a very skilled > job, and > the fire, which in those days was a coal one, needed expert > attention." > > and: > > "Depending on the number of pickers in a family was the decision to > have a > bin or half a bin. Hops were picked in bins which were constructed > from > sacking secured to a wooden pole frame and, I think, would hold > around 40 > bushels. We picked in sets, so many bins to a set and so > many"hills". A hill > contained a certain number of "bines". When a set had been cleared, > the bins > were moved to another set. In this way every one had a share of > "good" and > "bad" sets. > > Earlier in the year, about May, women had been employed in hop > training. The > best bines in each hill were selected to grow up the strings to the > overhead > wire framework, and the weaker ones pulled out. The hops had to be > trained > three times with a period of time between each training. Aunt Nell > was a > regular and experienced hop trainer and later my mother did > training,though > not at the same farm. Hop training was also called hop tying." > > Hope this helps > Regards > Heather > now in Oz > but born & bred in Kent > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell > Sent: 29 May 2008 20:18 > To: Herefordshire Rootsweb > Subject: [HEF] Hops > > > Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of > people whose main occupation was growing hops? Or was this perforce a > seasonal occupation? (so at census time they would not have been doing > that?) Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have > required enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? > > I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. > Might > this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from > an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? > > Thanks for any advice, > David > > "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London > A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & > Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr > James OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire > Diane J." > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David - try your local library/university for: Goals and Values of Hop Farmers - Brian W. Ilbery Regards - Terry -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather & Chris Lord Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:04 PM To: eng-hereford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi David I think the answer to your query would be "Farmer" or "Hop Grower". If someone was growing hops, they would have owned (or rented?) the land the hops were grown on, so wouldn't be "ag labs". Farmers probably had other crops or animals as well as hops, so hop growing would only be a small part of what they did - unless they only grew hops, which I would think would be fairly unlikely. If the crops were only harvested once a year, what would they have lived on for the rest of the year? Regards Heather -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell Sent: 29 May 2008 20:18 To: Herefordshire Rootsweb Subject: [HEF] Hops Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of people whose main occupation was growing hops? Or was this perforce a seasonal occupation? (so at census time they would not have been doing that?) Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have required enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. Might this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? Thanks for any advice, David "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr James OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire Diane J." ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wasn't Herefordshire very well known for perry" Steve Kelsey -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of TERRY DIPPLE Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:29 PM To: eng-hereford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Heather - sometimes it's good to discuss a topic like hop-picking for its historic value, rather answering questions from people whose initials seem invariably to be SKS, who are too cheap to subscribe to Ancestry, or walk/drive to their library where it is free. However, I know that topics like hop-picking/growing can become tiresome, but that's where the administrator should cut it short. Regards - Terry P.S. anybody know about cider-apple growing? -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Heather & Chris Lord Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:22 PM To: 'David Daniell'; 'Herefordshire Rootsweb' Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi David I have plenty of other ways to occupy my time than to write to the list. I write to the list when I have a query, or when I have something to say which may help another lister. What I was trying to point out - and what I said in my 2nd message to the list - is that the occupation would've been simply "Farmer" or "Hop Grower". Heather -----Original Message----- From: David Daniell [mailto:ddaniell@woosh.co.nz] Sent: 31 May 2008 07:06 To: Herefordshire Rootsweb; Heather & Chris Lord Cc: TERRY DIPPLE Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi Heather, This is nice of you. I have never expressed interest in or been interested in the picking of hops or whoever may have done it! That is just what everyone wants to write to the List about or to me about! And that is, I suppose, what a List is "about", what people Want to write in about. From the first line of my first letter to the list on Hops - this is what I want to know: "Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of people whose main occupation was growing hops?" (first line of message dated 30 May 2008) I've explained why I doubt some of the commentary since made. thanks david On 31/05/2008, at 10:20 AM, Heather & Chris Lord wrote: > Hi David and all > > My great grandfather was involved in hop growing in Kent. (It is > believed > that he owned the smallest oast house in Kent, and one of the oldest). > > My Mum wrote a piece about her childhood, part of which says > > "Until WW2 my mother did not work outside the home, except for the > annual 3 > weeks spent picking hops at Harold Wilkinson's farm at Farningham, > on the > Benenden/Golford road, where my grandfather Santer was the hop drier, > working day and night in the oast where he had a rough bed. Aunt > Edie would > cycle from Golford with his meals. Drying hops was a very skilled > job, and > the fire, which in those days was a coal one, needed expert > attention." > > and: > > "Depending on the number of pickers in a family was the decision to > have a > bin or half a bin. Hops were picked in bins which were constructed > from > sacking secured to a wooden pole frame and, I think, would hold > around 40 > bushels. We picked in sets, so many bins to a set and so > many"hills". A hill > contained a certain number of "bines". When a set had been cleared, > the bins > were moved to another set. In this way every one had a share of > "good" and > "bad" sets. > > Earlier in the year, about May, women had been employed in hop > training. The > best bines in each hill were selected to grow up the strings to the > overhead > wire framework, and the weaker ones pulled out. The hops had to be > trained > three times with a period of time between each training. Aunt Nell > was a > regular and experienced hop trainer and later my mother did > training,though > not at the same farm. Hop training was also called hop tying." > > Hope this helps > Regards > Heather > now in Oz > but born & bred in Kent > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell > Sent: 29 May 2008 20:18 > To: Herefordshire Rootsweb > Subject: [HEF] Hops > > > Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of > people whose main occupation was growing hops? Or was this perforce a > seasonal occupation? (so at census time they would not have been doing > that?) Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have > required enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? > > I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. > Might > this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from > an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? > > Thanks for any advice, > David > > "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London > A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & > Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr > James OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire > Diane J." > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi David As I think I tried to explain in my first reply to this message, hops are grown on farms and so the year round care and cultivation is undertaken by the normal farm labour force - the "ag labs", "farm labours" or "indoor farm servants" of the census. ("indoor in this case means a man who had his lodging in the farmhouse, ie a single man, not one who worked indoors). All of these have wonderful specialist knowledge of all the crops and animals that they tend, but at different times of the year would be concentrating on different crops and cultivations. For those involved with growing hops Mary's website that you quoted gives a very good summary. Nowadays through the hopyards are not ploughed and hoed, instead the weeds are supressed by spraying. The only exception to this, beyond the pickers, were that the women of the village (normally the wives of the ag labs) were employed to "tie-in" the strings and train hop bines at the start of their growth. This did not need the same skills as pruning a vineyard or orchard, as the growth was only annual. Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Daniell" <ddaniell@woosh.co.nz> To: <eng-hereford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Many thanks for this Terry. My real interest is not in the casual labour for picking but in the permanent labour for year-round care and attention. My (limited) horticultural experience is that anything that grows that far and that fast must be on native ground or a weed or require quite a lot of knowledgeable attention to be sure it performs the way that is wanted. cheers, David On 30/05/2008, at 2:03 AM, TERRY DIPPLE wrote: > David - by the time we got there, they were already flowering (late > Aug/Sep). They grew in long rows about 100/200 yds up strings about > 6/7' > high attached to wires, forming "binds" (like grape-vines) which had > sharp > bristles. Pole-pullers (like my father, taking a long holiday from > coal-mining) would cut them down using a sharp hook on the end of a > long > pole. They would be thrown into a "crib" made from sacking, and the > women > and girls would pick the hops (no leaves) off the binds (I played > the gipsy > twins). Twice a day a "busheler" would come and "bushelem up", and > we would > get paid/bushel. They would then be taken into the oast houses to > dry. The > only chemical I can remember being used was Sulphur (probably for > killing > some bugs). There is a book on hop-picking you can buy from Bromyard > FHS. > Regards - Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:24 AM > To: eng-hereford@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops > > Hi Terry, I'd agree but I still need to know if any particular name > was given to people with the necessary expertise to look after the > plants - or was / is it a simple and straightforward crop - like peas > or beans or whatever. You know, you plant them, prop them up, > harvest them then clear away the mess (or burn or dig it in?). I > suspect some of my / our family may have done just that. Was hoping > for some clues. > Cheers > David > > On 30/05/2008, at 1:00 AM, TERRY DIPPLE wrote: > >> David - I used to go "hop-picking" from 1-6 years of age, at Leaks' >> farm - >> Withington, Herfs. I would have thought if someone from >> Worestershire had a >> notice in a London paper, they would have married the daughter of a >> landowner/farmer of hops, not a ag. Lab planting hops. >> Terry (Ohio) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell >> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:18 AM >> To: Herefordshire Rootsweb >> Subject: [HEF] Hops >> >> Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of >> people whose main occupation was growing hops? >> Or was this perforce a seasonal occupation? >> (so at census time they would not have been doing that?) >> Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have required >> enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? >> >> I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. >> Might this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from >> an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? >> >> Thanks for any advice, >> David >> >> "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London >> A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & >> Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr >> James >> OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire >> Diane J." >> ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- >> A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- >> A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<http://www.romanyroad.co.uk/#/hoppicking/4524168147> David

Many thanks Polly, They seem to have been a crop that required a lot of attention - Mary Horner seems to make it a year-round activity with the casuals for the picking: http://www.romanyroad.co.uk/#/hoppicking/4524168147 Which would not be so for the other crops you mentioned. My central concern is to find the name given to the people who made and tended the yard / garden! Mary's list seems to me to suggest more specialised activities - it almost seems more like growing grapes than the skills needed for oats barley wheat etc. Prune the plant wrong and you are in trouble ( though I guess this applies to most fruiting growths as with orchards) I'm after the correct term to be applied to the 'workers', that's all. thanks Polly, David On 30/05/2008, at 2:00 AM, Polly Rubery wrote: > Hi David > > As I said they are only called "gardens" in Kent. Here in > Herefordshire > they are grown in hop-yards. These were normally quite small and > enclosed > with tall hedges to help protect the hops from wind. In the past > they were > grown up poles, and you would not get much for your crop if they all > blew > over onto the ground. So I guess that the term (both of which come > from the > same origin and indeed to an American their "yard" is what we call a > garden > in England) indicates a smaller more enclosed plot of land rather > than a > larger, more exposed "field" - which in the 16th and 17th centuries > would > have been even more so than what we know as a tyical field today, as > they > would have been the "open fields" before enclosure. > > And yes we have a lot of "strawberry fields" in Herefordshire now - > mostly > covered by poly-tunnels to protect them from rain and to extend the > season > too. Now we import pickers for them rather than the hops and they > mostly > come from Eastern Europe. > Polly

Polly, Thank you for your kind and informative response. Its a while since I read the Wikipedia item and yet I am sure i did not take on board that they were treated as a perennial plant. One thing I had noted is that they seem to be grown in hop-gardens. Now, why the word garden? A choice piece of land? Hmmm, isn't there a song about strawberry fields . . . Thanks, David On 30/05/2008, at 1:37 AM, Polly Rubery wrote: > Hi David > > Hops were a farm crop like any other (wheat, oats, barley etc) and so > someone who grew them was called a farmer, and his farm labourers > would have > done most of the work concerned with growing them throughout the year. > However they used to require a large labour force to hand pick them, > so as > the acreage rose and the number of farm labourers employed fell over > the > Victorian period, the tradition of "hop-pickers" coming to pick them > from > the neighbouring industrial areas (in Herefordshire the West > Midlands and > South Wales and in Kent, London) arose. > > Where they did differ from other farm crops is that they were > perennial > crops, and so did not have to be sown every year like those grown > from seed > (such as the grain crops). Instead the fields of hops (in > Herefordshire > "yards" and in Kent "gardens") were planted up from time to time > either with > dormant root-stocks ("sets") during the winter and the spring, or > cuttings. > > It is quite possible that this may have been done by someone with > specialist > knowledge who called himself a "hop-planter" but the only reference > in my > own research to someone so described, is very early on in the period > when > hops first started to be grown, and he seems to be a "farmer" and so > perhaps > a "planter" in the same way as those with overseas plantations were so > called. > > Also most hits in a Google search on the term seem to refer to the > person > growing the hops, rather then someone working with them. > > If anyone else can offer a definitive answer on this I'd be very > interested > too! > Polly

Hi Terry, I'd agree but I still need to know if any particular name was given to people with the necessary expertise to look after the plants - or was / is it a simple and straightforward crop - like peas or beans or whatever. You know, you plant them, prop them up, harvest them then clear away the mess (or burn or dig it in?). I suspect some of my / our family may have done just that. Was hoping for some clues. Cheers David On 30/05/2008, at 1:00 AM, TERRY DIPPLE wrote: > David - I used to go "hop-picking" from 1-6 years of age, at Leaks' > farm - > Withington, Herfs. I would have thought if someone from > Worestershire had a > notice in a London paper, they would have married the daughter of a > landowner/farmer of hops, not a ag. Lab planting hops. > Terry (Ohio) > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:18 AM > To: Herefordshire Rootsweb > Subject: [HEF] Hops > > Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of > people whose main occupation was growing hops? > Or was this perforce a seasonal occupation? > (so at census time they would not have been doing that?) > Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have required > enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? > > I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. > Might this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from > an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? > > Thanks for any advice, > David > > "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London > A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & > Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr > James > OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire > Diane J." > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of people whose main occupation was growing hops? Or was this perforce a seasonal occupation? (so at census time they would not have been doing that?) Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have required enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. Might this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? Thanks for any advice, David "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr James OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire Diane J."

First Diane, thank you for putting the note on the list about the Rollason/Oven marriage. In the past I have contributed to the Rollason list as my grandmother was a Rollason from Sedgley. There is quite a strong group of Rollasons in the Coventry area and one of the daughters married into the Gallier family who were famous for breeding Herefordshire cattle in the 1700s. Dilwyn & Canon Pyon are not so far apart & may account for ths connection. A hop planter probably implies what are now called hop growers, major owners of hop yards. The fact that he is also a grazier also implies that he bought and sold cattle possibly for fattening and moving onto the London area. Again - Thank you Barbara Haner

Hi David As I said they are only called "gardens" in Kent. Here in Herefordshire they are grown in hop-yards. These were normally quite small and enclosed with tall hedges to help protect the hops from wind. In the past they were grown up poles, and you would not get much for your crop if they all blew over onto the ground. So I guess that the term (both of which come from the same origin and indeed to an American their "yard" is what we call a garden in England) indicates a smaller more enclosed plot of land rather than a larger, more exposed "field" - which in the 16th and 17th centuries would have been even more so than what we know as a tyical field today, as they would have been the "open fields" before enclosure. And yes we have a lot of "strawberry fields" in Herefordshire now - mostly covered by poly-tunnels to protect them from rain and to extend the season too. Now we import pickers for them rather than the hops and they mostly come from Eastern Europe. Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Daniell" <ddaniell@woosh.co.nz> To: <eng-hereford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Polly, Thank you for your kind and informative response. Its a while since I read the Wikipedia item and yet I am sure i did not take on board that they were treated as a perennial plant. One thing I had noted is that they seem to be grown in hop-gardens. Now, why the word garden? A choice piece of land? Hmmm, isn't there a song about strawberry fields . . . Thanks, David On 30/05/2008, at 1:37 AM, Polly Rubery wrote: > Hi David > > Hops were a farm crop like any other (wheat, oats, barley etc) and so > someone who grew them was called a farmer, and his farm labourers > would have > done most of the work concerned with growing them throughout the year. > However they used to require a large labour force to hand pick them, > so as > the acreage rose and the number of farm labourers employed fell over > the > Victorian period, the tradition of "hop-pickers" coming to pick them > from > the neighbouring industrial areas (in Herefordshire the West > Midlands and > South Wales and in Kent, London) arose. > > Where they did differ from other farm crops is that they were > perennial > crops, and so did not have to be sown every year like those grown > from seed > (such as the grain crops). Instead the fields of hops (in > Herefordshire > "yards" and in Kent "gardens") were planted up from time to time > either with > dormant root-stocks ("sets") during the winter and the spring, or > cuttings. > > It is quite possible that this may have been done by someone with > specialist > knowledge who called himself a "hop-planter" but the only reference > in my > own research to someone so described, is very early on in the period > when > hops first started to be grown, and he seems to be a "farmer" and so > perhaps > a "planter" in the same way as those with overseas plantations were so > called. > > Also most hits in a Google search on the term seem to refer to the > person > growing the hops, rather then someone working with them. > > If anyone else can offer a definitive answer on this I'd be very > interested > too! > Polly ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi David Hops were a farm crop like any other (wheat, oats, barley etc) and so someone who grew them was called a farmer, and his farm labourers would have done most of the work concerned with growing them throughout the year. However they used to require a large labour force to hand pick them, so as the acreage rose and the number of farm labourers employed fell over the Victorian period, the tradition of "hop-pickers" coming to pick them from the neighbouring industrial areas (in Herefordshire the West Midlands and South Wales and in Kent, London) arose. Where they did differ from other farm crops is that they were perennial crops, and so did not have to be sown every year like those grown from seed (such as the grain crops). Instead the fields of hops (in Herefordshire "yards" and in Kent "gardens") were planted up from time to time either with dormant root-stocks ("sets") during the winter and the spring, or cuttings. It is quite possible that this may have been done by someone with specialist knowledge who called himself a "hop-planter" but the only reference in my own research to someone so described, is very early on in the period when hops first started to be grown, and he seems to be a "farmer" and so perhaps a "planter" in the same way as those with overseas plantations were so called. Also most hits in a Google search on the term seem to refer to the person growing the hops, rather then someone working with them. If anyone else can offer a definitive answer on this I'd be very interested too! Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Daniell" <ddaniell@woosh.co.nz> To: "Herefordshire Rootsweb" <eng-hereford@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: [HEF] Hops Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of people whose main occupation was growing hops? Or was this perforce a seasonal occupation? (so at census time they would not have been doing that?) Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have required enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. Might this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? Thanks for any advice, David "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr James OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire Diane J." ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David - by the time we got there, they were already flowering (late Aug/Sep). They grew in long rows about 100/200 yds up strings about 6/7' high attached to wires, forming "binds" (like grape-vines) which had sharp bristles. Pole-pullers (like my father, taking a long holiday from coal-mining) would cut them down using a sharp hook on the end of a long pole. They would be thrown into a "crib" made from sacking, and the women and girls would pick the hops (no leaves) off the binds (I played the gipsy twins). Twice a day a "busheler" would come and "bushelem up", and we would get paid/bushel. They would then be taken into the oast houses to dry. The only chemical I can remember being used was Sulphur (probably for killing some bugs). There is a book on hop-picking you can buy from Bromyard FHS. Regards - Terry -----Original Message----- From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:24 AM To: eng-hereford@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HEF] Hops Hi Terry, I'd agree but I still need to know if any particular name was given to people with the necessary expertise to look after the plants - or was / is it a simple and straightforward crop - like peas or beans or whatever. You know, you plant them, prop them up, harvest them then clear away the mess (or burn or dig it in?). I suspect some of my / our family may have done just that. Was hoping for some clues. Cheers David On 30/05/2008, at 1:00 AM, TERRY DIPPLE wrote: > David - I used to go "hop-picking" from 1-6 years of age, at Leaks' > farm - > Withington, Herfs. I would have thought if someone from > Worestershire had a > notice in a London paper, they would have married the daughter of a > landowner/farmer of hops, not a ag. Lab planting hops. > Terry (Ohio) > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-hereford-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:18 AM > To: Herefordshire Rootsweb > Subject: [HEF] Hops > > Can anyone tell me the correct description in the old censuses of > people whose main occupation was growing hops? > Or was this perforce a seasonal occupation? > (so at census time they would not have been doing that?) > Would they have been classes as ag-labs or would it have required > enough skill to be regarded as a separate 'trade'? > > I notice in a recent message someone is described as a hop-planter. > Might this have been someone who owned a plantation as distinct from > an employee who planted them and trained them onto sticks etc? > > Thanks for any advice, > David > > "14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London > A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & > Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr > James > OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire > Diane J." > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ---- ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ---- A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HEREFORD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Whoever said sorting out the family history would be easy!!! I thought you would like to try to work this one out! Sad for poor old George KYRWOOD, I feel! Excerpt taken from Ipswich Journal Saturday April 5th 1834 At the Hereford Assizes on Wed. March 26th - BOWYER v. BOWYER This was a writ of right brought by Mr F. BOWYER to recover certain lands at Dilwyn, which were in the possession of Mr T K BOWYER. Mr Sergeant LUDLOW and Mr GODSON conducted the demandant's case, Mr Sergeant TALFOURD that of the Defendant. It appeared, on the part of the defendant, that his grandfather, from whom the estate descended to him, had on the 18th February 1772, married Mary KYRWOOD and that their eldest son, who was afterwards Major of the Herefordshire Militia and the father of the defendant, was baptised in the month of September in the same year, the demandant being their youngest son. It further appeared that the eldest son had been in all respects treated as the legitimate son and heir of the family, and that the demandant had acknowledged him as such. In answer to the case, witnesses were called on the part of the demandant to prove that Mary KYRWOOD had, in the year 1762, married Mr George KYRWOOD and that, in the year 1771 he was arrested at the suit of Mr Francis BOWYER for a debt of ninety pounds for which he remained in custody, first in Hereford Gaol, and afterwards in the King's Bench prison till the time of his death which took place on 15th February 1773, which was only three days before Mr Francis BOWYER married his widow. Evidence was also given to show that an Improper Intimacy existed between Mr Francis BOWYER and Mrs KYRWOOD before the death of Mr KYRWOOD; and also that the defendant's father, although baptised in September 1773, was born in the month of June in that year. The jury found a verdict for the defendant, thereby establishing the legitimacy of his father, as the son of Mr Francis BOWYER. Diane J. (No connection to the BOWYERs of Dilwyn) Researching PRICE, Dilwyn

Tuesday December 29th 1795 published in "True Briton" newspaper Murder of Captain REED Mrs REED, widow of the above-mentioned gentleman, (who was murdered about two years ago at his house in the parish of Berkeley in Gloucestershire) who has been taken into custody and committed to Gloucester Gaol for trial, was apprehended about ten days since at her father's house at Bishop's Froora (sic.), near Bromyard, Herefordshire, in consequence of some circumstances that came to light in the trial at the Court of King's Bench, Guildhall, for the recovery of two thousand pounds insured on the life of Captain R. In this action, Mrs REED was plaintiff and the Directors of the Royal Exchange Insurance Office, Defendants. The former was non-suited. (Probably Bishop's Frome?) Diane J. (no connection to above)

14th October 1793, Sun Newspaper, London A few days since, at St. John's Worcester, Mr ROLLASON, Printer & Bookseller, Coventry, married to Miss OVEN, daughter of the late Mr James OVEN, Hop-planter and Grazier, Dilwyn Herefordshire Diane J. (No connection to above)