Thanks Phil These are all my family albeit the latter being siblings. Yes it is very helpful. Thanks again Eveline ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [HEF] Look-up request Hi Eveline, Esther Kington buried at Grendon Bishop 07.01.1830 Age 29 Hester Kington buried at Grendon Bishop 11.06.1822 Age 30 Also have the following:- Milborough Kington buried at Grendon Bishop 14.07.1835 Age 3 Sarah Kington buried at Grendon Bishop 02.07.1822 Age 1 Dinah Kington buried at Grendon Bishop 03.10.1829 Age 1 Hope this is helpful. Phil.

Eveline, From the Herefortdshire Burial Index of the HFHS: KINGTON,Esther, 7 Jan 1830, of Grendon Bishop, age: 29 Grendon Bishop St John Baptist 1813-1839, HEF KINGTON,Hester, 11 Jun 1822, of Grendon Bishop, age: 30 Grendon Bishop St John Baptist 1813-1839, HEF It looks like a rerally tragic situation. Alec Whitfield from North Herefordshire UK [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eveline Clarke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 1:57 PM Subject: [HEF] Look-up request > When my 2xGreat Grandfather Thomas Kington married in Grendon Bishop in > 1823 to Esther Unitt the parish records show that he was a widower when he > married. > > I believe that his first wife was also an Esther (Hester) as he had a > daughter Ann born 1818 in Grendon Bishop and IGI shows that she was the > daughter of Thomas and Hester. > > I was wondering if someone would be able to look up the burial index for > Esther (Hester) Kington between 1818 and 1823. > > I am trying to tie up where he lived before Grendon Bishop in order to > find his birth and wondered if finding her death details might help. > > I have not been able to find a Thomas Kington marrying an Esther in > Herefordshire, but did find one in Ludlow Shropshire to an Esther Price. > > Thank you > > Eveline > > > ==== ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ==== > . > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

I am indebted to Mr John Ruck for his help in determining where my SAUNDERS were in 1851 Census. Having used the IGI, I have gleaned the following information regarding these folks and hope that it may be of some interest to fellow listers. James SAUNDERS married Mary HILL 28.9.1810 at Orcop. Their children; James - Bap. 7.7.1811, St. Weonards, William - Bap. 29.8.1813, St. Weonards, Rachel - Bap. 2.1.1816, St. Weonards, Thomas - Bap. 9.6.1816, St. Weonards, Sarah - Bap. 27.2.1820, St. Weonards. Sarah had two children, seemingly without the help of a husband; Esther - Bap. 12.3.1843, St. Weonards, Mary - Bap. 25.5.1851, St. Weonards. Mary ended up in Liverpool and she is my Great-Great Grandmother. Regards, Adele

When my 2xGreat Grandfather Thomas Kington married in Grendon Bishop in 1823 to Esther Unitt the parish records show that he was a widower when he married. I believe that his first wife was also an Esther (Hester) as he had a daughter Ann born 1818 in Grendon Bishop and IGI shows that she was the daughter of Thomas and Hester. I was wondering if someone would be able to look up the burial index for Esther (Hester) Kington between 1818 and 1823. I am trying to tie up where he lived before Grendon Bishop in order to find his birth and wondered if finding her death details might help. I have not been able to find a Thomas Kington marrying an Esther in Herefordshire, but did find one in Ludlow Shropshire to an Esther Price. Thank you Eveline

Just wonder, if the original enquirer for this, has been into M137702, on the IGI, for Leintwardine, and seen if following the two marriages through (think they were both female Smallmans), could tie up other surnames with Richard Smallman? A Google shows a John Smallman entry for Leintwardine 1686, whether marriage or christening date do not know. Interesting. Jo. Sleet in spring Shropshire.

Hello John There is a Richard Smallman, born about 1818 in Leintwardine, listed as Head of household in Kinver, Staffordshire in 1851. He is a Builder, with wife Ann aged 26, born Whitminster, Glos; and son Charles, 11 months, born Kinver, Staffs. Best wishes Liz

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C65BB7.F2C1AE80 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Attached is a text file with all the SMAL(L)MAN entries in the Herefordshire Burial Index of the HFHS. Note the Smalman variation. This is just as likely to be due to the vicar or us as transcribers as to any preference on the part of the family! The Hererfordshire Burial Index is complete from 1813 to 1839. We are working -- gradually -- through the earlier registers. Please feel free to make another query in a few months time. Regards, Alec Whitfield from North Herefordshire UK [email protected] ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C65BB7.F2C1AE80 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; name="Smallman.txt"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Smallman.txt" SEARCHING FOR: Surnames : SMALLMAN SMALMAN (PARTIAL) Sunday, 09/04/2006 SMALLMAN,Ann, 22 Apr 1817, of Holgate, age: inf, illeg/bastard/natural = of Catherine Richard Kingsland St Michael 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Anne, 1 Feb 1838, of Tupsley, age: 13 Hampton Bishop St Andrew 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Anne, 24 Jun 1838, of Todding, age: 17 Leintwardine St Mary Magdalene 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Elizabeth, 26 Aug 1816, of Cats Lane, age: 2+ Hereford All Saints 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Elizabeth, 25 Apr 1811 Eye SS Peter & Paul 1762-1812, HEF SMALLMAN,Elizabeth, 3 Jul 1731 Aston Ingham St John Baptist 1633-1739, HEF SMALLMAN,George, 17 Feb 1824, of The Hundred, age: 14w Eye SS Peter & Paul 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,John, 13 Aug 1814, of Adforton, age: 90, widow(er) Leintwardine St Mary Magdalene 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,John, 21 Jul 1706 Aston Ingham St John Baptist 1633-1739, HEF SMALLMAN,Joseph, 1 Nov 1836, of Eyton, age: 83 Eyton All Saints 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Mary, 21 Apr 1818, of Wacton Thornbury St Anne 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Mary, 20 Feb 1828, of Collington, age: 35 Collington St Mary 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Mary, 27 May 1801, age: inf Eyton All Saints 1774-1812, HEF SMALLMAN,Mary, 4 Aug 1736, widow(er) Aston Ingham St John Baptist 1633-1739, HEF SMALLMAN,Sarah, 1 Nov 1813, of Wacton Green Thornbury St Anne 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Susannah, 23 Aug 1750, widow(er) Eaton Bishop St Michael 1747-1812, HEF SMALLMAN,Thomas, 6 Dec 1813, of Clerks Croft Thornbury St Anne 1813-1839, HEF SMALLMAN,Thomas, 17 Mar 1685/6 Aston Ingham St John Baptist 1633-1739, HEF SMALLMAN,Thomas, 4 Mar 1709/0 Aston Ingham St John Baptist 1633-1739, HEF SMALLMAN,William, 9 Apr 1811 Eye SS Peter & Paul 1762-1812, HEF SMALMAN,Ann, 6 Jun 1817, of Bucknell, age: 80 Bucknell 1813-1839, SAL SMALMAN,James, 19 Aug 1831, of Upton Bishop, age: 17 Upton Bishop St John Baptist 1813-1839, HEF SMALMAN,John, 10 Nov 1817, of Bucknell, age: 78 Bucknell 1813-1839, SAL SMALMAN,Joseph, 27 Sep 1838, of New St, age: 63 Hereford St Peters 1813-1839, HEF Number of matches =3D 24 out of 77290 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C65BB7.F2C1AE80--

Hello John, You need a look up of the Parish Records for Leintwardine. I see that he was consistent (1851 - 1901) in declaring his birthplace as Leintwardine with the exception of 1861 where he is merely recorded as being from Herefordshire. The baptisms are not on the IGI or the British Isles Vital Records Index, version 2 that I have. Hopefully someone on the list will be visiting HEF CRO soon and do a check for you? Sorry not to have been of more help. -----Original Message----- From: John Carswell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 7:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [HEF] Richard Smallman Leintwardine. Hello List, I wondered whether anyone could tell me the parents & circumstances of RICHARD SMALLMAN born about 1820 in Leintwardine, Bedfordshire.He married Ellen & was the carpenter at the Enville Estate in Staffordshire. I am interested to exchange information on the family. Regards & thanks, John Carswell, Taree, NSW. Australia. 1851 Census.Dike ? St .Kinver Richard Smallman ,Head,33, Builder,b. Leintwardine ,Herefordshire. Ellen Smallman, Wife,26, b.Whitminster Gloucester. Charles Smallman, Son,11 monthsb., Kinver Staffordshire.

Hello John, I have checked the Herefordshire 1851 Census Index their are no SMALLMAN names at Leintwardine.Their are others scattered about the county of Herefordshire but their is not one Richard, Sorry, Malcolm Brinkworth

Hello All from Western Canada. New to list and really grasping at straws here so hope someone can help. 14 years of researching without success and I "think" it may be because I've been looking in the wrong counties! Anyone connected to David ALLON who appears on the 1861 census (RG9/1824) at Quakers Farm, Michaelchurch Eskley? My greatgrandfather George ALLON (ALLEN/ALLAN) was born 1842 in Norham, Northumberland to Robert ALLEN and Elizabeth SHIIELS. Robert was a shepherd. The only marriage I could find for a them was in 1821 in the Eccles, Scotland. I then found the births of three children - David (1821 in Brigham, Scotland), Mary (1825 in Coldstream), and James (1827 in Northfield) so Robert appears to be moving south into England with his flock. I'm at a loss to find them again until my ggf's birth in 1842 and then lose the family again until George's marriage to Ann WAUGH in 1866 in St. Nicholas Catherdral, Newcastle Upon Tyne. Ann and George eventually moved to the Chester le Street area of County Durham where many descendents still reside. Searching on Ancestry.com (RG9/1824, page 4) I have now found a George ALLON, age 17, birthplace - Norham, as a farm servant on his brother David's farm. David's oldest son, Robert, age 16, also gives his birthplace as Norham. I also found a Robert ALLEN, widower, age 70, a shepherd, on RG9/1824, page 10, born Northumberland. Sorry, I can't make out the name of the farm. Am I on the right track, have I really found George's family after all these years? Would love to hear from anyone who may connect with this line. Kind regards, Pat in Calgary, Alberta

I have a family member at least I think he is at 4 Lilian Place Ryland Street Hereford. This person John COPELIN was a Market Gardener The information I am interested in was John there for the 1891 census what was his place of birth and what was 4 Lilian Place Ryland Street Hereford Thank you Roger Royal Marines Member RMHS Researching Copelin, Attrell, Reeves, Deacon & Pont

In a message dated 08/04/2006 08:01:13 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Re: [HEF] Help reading 1851 census Hi Adele I am afraid I cant help with census but I am also researching SAUNDERS/SANDERS, All my lot so far are in WORCS but I do have a possible marriage in HEREFORD, would it be ok for me to contact you off list to compare notes? Steve

The handwriting for 1861 is much clearer Crossyago Treverannon (Green) Regards, John

I have downloaded the 1851 census page for St. Weonards featuring my family, SAUNDERS. There are 4 addresses given, but for the life of me I can't make any sense out of them. For those who have access, we are talking H.O. 107/1976; page 15. For those who don't but would care to have a guess, the entries resemble, Croddy ago/ Cesssy ago Twaeramining/Teverawning Regards, Adele

Seeking further information on Luke and Mary Ann Sarah Tilley. Known children Ellen Fanny, William Luke, John Jacob, Ernest William and Amy. Mary Ann Sarah was a 1st cousin 3xtimes removed. Luke Tilley, Bookseller, Stationer, Printer, Newspaper Publisher etc. High Street, Ledbury. Luke was from Dorset and Mary Ann Sarah from Somerset. Does anyone have the family in their tree. TIA Hilda, Wales.

Regarding my previous message I should have made it clear that the death registration that I found in Weobley, was in reference to Weobley Registration District, that apparently includes the Norton Canon area. Regards, Cathy in South Australia Alec wrote........................ > In case they help, attached are the Preece entries in Norton Canon and the > Nichols entries in Kinnersley from the Herefordshire Burial Index 1813 to > 1839 of the Herefordshire FHS. > > I checked, but there are no Preece entries in Weobley > Original message................. > ........Thomas was buried 16 Jul1839 in Norton Canon, and a daughter Tracy > PREECE was baptised 12 May 1839 Norton Canon, and buried 31 Dec 1839 > also in Norton Canon. This of course gives me the opportunity to access > registration details for these three events, which would be more > conclusive. Unfortunately I cannot find a birth registration for Tracy > but have found her death registration in Weobley, also a possible for > Thomas PREECE, but in Hereford rather than Weobley............... >

Following my discovery (with the aid of Ian Preece) that my 2 x g grandmother Martha and her widowed mother Ann, named as PRICE when living in Middlesex, turn out to be Ann & Martha PREECE in Herefordshire. Martha signed her marriage certificate in Middlesex with a X, so wasn't literate, so probably her mother Ann wasn't either, so wouldn't have noticed the spelling anyway, not as written by an educated church official! I believe that Ann was the widow of Thomas PREECE, a Sawyer, named on the marriage certificate as PRICE, and that he married Ann NICHOLAS in 1826 in Shobdon Herefordshire. In the 1851 census in Middlesex the widowed Ann is living with her married sister Mary ROBB, nee NICHOLAS, and both born Kinnersley Herefordshire. Thomas was buried 16 Jul1839 in Norton Canon, and a daughter Tracy PREECE was baptised 12 May 1839 Norton Canon, and buried 31 Dec 1839 also in Norton Canon. This of course gives me the opportunity to access registration details for these three events, which would be more conclusive. Unfortunately I cannot find a birth registration for Tracy but have found her death registration in Weobley, also a possible for Thomas PREECE, but in Hereford rather than Weobley. I suppose that this could be because he didn't die at home, maybe a work related accident, while away from home. They seemed to be living at that time in Pig Street, Norton Canon. I have also found marriage registration details for sister Mary NICHOLAS to John ROBB in 1840 in Middlesex, so will include that one in my order, wow I seem to be getting somewhere in Herefordshire at last. Now what I'd like to know is anyone can connect to this NICHOLAS family in Kinnersley. I have found on the IGI a baptism of Ann NICHOLAS 2 Aug 1801 in Kinnersley, d/o John NICHOLAS & Elizabeth, also a matching one for a daughter Elizabeth in 6 May 1798. I have not found a matching baptism for Mary, she was 5 years older than Ann, although there is one for a Mary NICHOLAS baptised 10 Apr 1796 at Almeley, d/o Elizabeth, with no father named, and don't know if this can be connected. Sorry to be so long winded, I tend to be a bit 'wordy', but I would appreciate anyones thoughts on this. Kind regards, Cathy in South Australia

_____ From: Paul Cawsey [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 05 April 2006 10:09 To: '[email protected]' Subject: JAMES family from Orcop Hill I’m trying to trace the decedents of the James Family who were living at Orcop Hill on the 1901 census. John James b. 1837 Boughrood, Radnorshire. – My great, great Grandfarther Mary James b. 1839 Glasbury, Radnorshire. Wife Jessie James b. 1876 Kingsland, Herefordshire. Married Frederick Tuckwood in Ludlow in 1907 John James b. 1879 Kingsland, Herefordshire. I know nothing about him after 1901 I think John James b. 1837 died in 1904 and MaryJames died in 1905. There other Daughter, Elizabeth James b. 1873 was my Great Grandmother and Married Charles Roger Pearce in the Parish of Orcop in 1899. Any help gratefully received Paul -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 31/03/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 31/03/2006

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C65897.195F4DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cathy, In case they help, attached are the Preece entries in Norton Canon and the Nichols entries in Kinnersley from the Herefordshire Burial Index 1813 to 1839 of the Herefordshire FHS. I checked, but there are no Preece entries in Weobley. By way of caution, there are 993 Preece and 1298 Price entries out of a total 76796 in the Index so far. The Burial Index is complete from 1813 to 1839. We are working -- gradually -- through the earlier registers. Happy hunting, Alec Whitfield from North Herefordshire UK [email protected] ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C65897.195F4DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; name="Preece - Price.txt"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Preece - Price.txt" Preece/Price Burials Norton Canon 1813-1839 PREECE,Jas, 23 Apr 1837, Pig St, 1 PREECE,Sarah, 5 Nov 1818, Norton, inf PREECE,Thomas, 16 Jul 1839, Pig St, 41 PREECE,Tracy, 31 Dec 1839, Pig St, 8m PRICE,Ann, 22 Nov 1835, Tump House, 47 Nicholas Burials Kinnersley 1813-1839 NICHOLAS,Eleanor, 9 May 1821, Sallies, 16 NICHOLAS,Elizabeth, 20 Nov 1825, Sallies, 67 NICHOLAS,Francis?, 7 Jun 1829, Sallies, 91, Cause of death given NICHOLAS,Mary, 9 May 1824, Sallies, 24 NICHOLAS,Thomas, 13 Sep 1822, Sallies, 83 NICHOLS,John, 10 Jun 1825, Kinnersley, 6m ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C65897.195F4DA0--

Now I'm guilty of mistranscribing - and I was trying to be so careful! Thanks for pointing that out, Polly. St Luke's isn't looking so doubtful now. It may help me find her in 1851. My mystery has deepened with the discovery of an 18yr old John Tolley in the 1881 Census (RG11/5247/42/18) born at Brecknock. The only one on freebdm born anywhere in Wales* 1860-63 is mine. *The family lived in Clifford which is in the Hay registration district. Still no sign of Celia. John snr married Eleanor Willis in Aston WAR in 1865, so Celia presumably (died?) Sep 1862-Dec 1865. -----Original Message----- From: Polly Rubery [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, 2 April 2006 8:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HEF] WATKINS/TOLLY of Clifford Hi Sandra >>In 1861 RG9/4226/54/7&8 she is listed as being born at St Luke's Middlesex (which I think is questionable given the "born in county" of the 1841 Census)<< Looking at the 1841 census image it has "No" for 'Born in County' for the Celia WATKINS living in Eardisley..... Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Lewis" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 1:40 AM Subject: [HEF] WATKINS/TOLLY of Clifford I'm looking for some help with a bit of a mystery. My 4xG Grandfather Thomas Bevan WATKINS's eldest daughter Celia was born circa 1837 (probably in Eardisley). She was not with her parents and siblings on the night of the 1851 Census, and cannot be found elsewhere in the 1851 Census. In 1861 RG9/4226/54/7&8 she is listed as being born at St Luke's Middlesex (which I think is questionable given the "born in county" of the 1841 Census), and has a son George WATKINS baptized 11 Jul 1860 in Clifford. She married John TOLLY 4 Jun 1861, and had a son John baptized 24 Aug 1862 in Clifford, then she and John jnr just disappear. Her husband had remarried by the 1871 Census. Her son George was living with his aunt (Celia's sister Sarah MOORE) in Birmingham and appears as George Watkins MOORE on the 1871 Census RG10/3096/37/11. I can't find George in 1881. There does not appear to be a death of Celia or her son John, (checked for Celia/Cecelia Tolly, Tolley, Tollie, Tully, Jolly, and Jollie). It seems unlikely that she would emigrate without her husband and elder son. Divorce also seems unlikely due to the cost at that time. I know that the marriage certificate for John TOLLY's 2nd marriage would indicate if he was a widower, but how reliable is that? - was it checked in those days, or just accepted as fact when stated? Can anyone suggest where else I should look to find what became of Celia? Sandra ==== ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ==== . ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ==== ENG-HEREFORD Mailing List ==== . ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429