The SMITH families are one of the stinker puzzles I referred to in my reply to Barbara. I have just decided that my Gt-Aunt Alice Cooper was Alice Elizabeth Smith, b. 1877 at Sandford Farm, Kingsclere to Joseph and Merab (Mirab in 1881 census). The name Merab re-appears with a grandchild of Alice being called Gertrude Dianne Merab (Cooper) and it is this that makes me fairly certain I have the right Alice Elizabeth as Merab is fairly uncommon. I cannot find Alice's marriage to Seth Cooper in the parish registers so it may have been a civil marriage. Their first child was baptised in St. Mary, Kingsclere in 1895 and they are recorded as living Holdup Hill (where Seth and his parents were recorded in the 1891 census) so I would have expected a baptism at St Peter, Headley or St. Paul, Woodlands. If Alice was born same year as her baptism (and this isn't certain as her parents seem to have baptised later children in batches) she would have been only 18 when child born. I have tried tracing Joseph Smith and Merab ?, both are said to be born in Kingsclere in 1881 census. Joseph is, I think, the son of Joseph and Maria Smith and bapt. at St. Paul, Woodlands in Nov. 1848. I can find only one other child of Joseph and Maria and that is Rachell bapt Jul 1846 also at St. Paul, but the 1851 census index suggests there could be other children and it really needs me to look at the 'as enumerated' to sort the 1851 Smiths into family groups. Joseph may be the one born about 1811 to James and Sarah ? but there the fun begins, who are James parents? He could be James ca 1758 son of Richard and Mary (Gammon), James ca 1761 son of William and Elizabeth (Mercer), James ca 1779 son of Joseph and Mary (?), James ca 1783 son of John and Mary Brown, James ca 1787 son of Thomas and Sarah (Rolfe) or James ca 1794 son of Thomas and Letitia Jemima (?) There are several other James in the right time frame who are married but who could have been a widowed and remarried. And that is only one forename, as you can see there are also John, William, Joseph and Thomas all married to Mary or Sarah or Elizabeth, I have 82 Smith 'branches' to try to sort into a coherent family. So two questions! Firstly, does anyone else have Smiths in their tree and can let me have a copy to compare with my efforts at sorting them out. Secondly, does any one claim Merab ? as an ancestor -- John Lewis <jayell@ntlworld.com> from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK using Mandrake GNU/Linux 8.0 and Geneweb genealogy software Main Family Names in HAM are: Kingsclere area: BUTLER, COOPER, FISHER, FOSTER, GIRDLER, HAWKINS Hazeley Heath: BARKER, CHANDLER, LEWINGTON, NEVILL(E) Main Family Names in GLA are: Vale of Glamorgan: GRIFFITH Rumney: LEWIS Aberdare: HOPKINS & JENKINS and CMN: HOPKINS & DAVIES