Hi folks I've spent a very enjoyable afternoon transcribing the Will of James BATES of Frobury Farm [HRO Ref: 1808A/8] but it's going to take a while to type it. In the meantime, I want to rectify an omission in the excerpts posted on the list in 2002 as I've discovered that James' eldest son John BATES featured in the legatees 28 January 1807: Mary, Wife, benefits of property etc so long as she remained his Widow, Joint Executrix Edward, Joint Executor, to inherit after death of his Mother Freehold Estate called Clarks, Kingsclere + £210 Thomas, to inherit after death of his Mother Freehold & Copyhold Estates called Ham, Baughurst Eldest Son John BATES £200 Son William £180 Son Charles £200 Daughter Hannah wife of William RUDDLE £200 Daughter Sophia wife of Joseph SMITH £200 Son Samuel £200 I know this will be of interest to Beverley Smith as it provides the possibility of a link to the John of Kintbury, but it also identifies the Baughurst holdings. The earlier Will [dated 1782] of Thomas BATES, Yeoman of Kingsclere, is not so informative as he leaves everything to Wife Mary for the term of her natural life, then amongst such of his children as shall be living at the time of his wife's death, share and share alike. Sadly, no property is named and children's names are not mentioned. Mary, duly sworn to execute 13 April 1786, ..... 'and that the Effects of the Testator at the time of his Decease did not extend to Three hundred pounds as she verily believes.' The Will of Edward BATES [1815] of The Rookery, Kingsclere [proved 1826] is worded in a strange way as he lists Hannah wife of James ALLEN Elizabeth wife of Joel GOLD Charlotte wife of William RUMBOLD 'The Daughters of my Wife Elizabeth BATES', to whom he leaves £5 each. Son Edward, Executor, to inherit property after Widow Elizabeth's death. Burial in Wolverton Churchyard in a brick grave with head and foot stone. If anyone would like copies of the full transcriptions, when typed, please contact me off-list. I don't anticipate they will be available for a while! Dorothy J.

On Wednesday 08 August 2007 21:59, Dorothy Jones wrote: > Hi folks > > I've spent a very enjoyable afternoon transcribing the Will > of James BATES of Frobury Farm [HRO Ref: 1808A/8] but it's > going to take a while to type it. In the meantime, > > Thomas, to inherit after death of his Mother Freehold & > Copyhold Estates called Ham, Baughurst Dear Listers - especially BATES researchers, Little Ham Farm, Baughurst was sold (estate rights not outright) to James Bates of Kingsclere in 1730 by Ralph Harmsworth. James placed his elder brother Thomas Bates in posession of the copyhold. Thomas Bates died March 1758 age 73 and his brother James was admitted to the tenure. James Bates was buried 10 March 1762 age ca 62. His son James Bates (II) who farmed Frobury Farm at Kingsclere succeeded him. His successor was James Bates (III), who was the son of Thomas Bates (the one described in the will ?), who apparently died in 1822 age 62. The estate passed in 1822 to his son James Bates (IV) with another son Edward acting as his brother's customary tenant in trust. Edward the tenant died in 1842 and was succeeded by his brother Samuel Bates. The proprietor Thomas Bates died at Eversley in 1845 where he had his own farm. The farm was left to the executors neither had the surname Bates (William Stone and Samuel Cordery) who sold it to the Revd Lovelace Bigg-Wither of Tangier Park at Wotton St Lawrence in 1846 for £445. In 1851 Thomas Hiles from Yorkshire was farming Little Ham Farm for the Revd L B-W. So the Bates were involved in Little Ham Farm, Baughurst from 1730 to 1845. This confirms and extends with James Bates (III) et seq, the tree that John has on the Kingsclere Families website. It also introduces the older brother, to James, Thomas born ca 1685. There is an IGI baptism at Kingsclere 20 Feb 1683 to Thomas and Judith. This must be him. Additionally one Thomas Bate was a Tithingman of Baughurst in 1740-41. This information is based on secondary records which come from a reliable sources, two published books of excellent scholarship ( The History of the Manor of Manydown Vol1 Part 1 and Part 2 by Ken Smallbone) The primary records should be consulted for surity. Regards, Nigel Gerdes

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:32:25 +0100 Nigel Gerdes <[email protected]> wrote: > This confirms and extends with James Bates (III) et seq, the tree > that John has on the Kingsclere Families website. It also > introduces the older brother, to James, Thomas born ca 1685. There > is an IGI baptism at Kingsclere 20 Feb 1683 to Thomas and Judith. > This must be him. I have added this Thomas to the family of Thomas & Judith but the baptism date needs checking as the IGI entry is a member submitted one. It will actually have birth year as 1684 due to the problem of dealing with the English year ending in March at that time. My software will not accept the 1683/84 dating that is really needed. My sets of Kingsclere fiche start at March 1682 so the February baptism, if correct, will be on the earlier series. I think, if memory serves me correctly, that HRO have an indexed typescript transcription of these early records so it should be a fairly simple to check if anyone happens to be visiting Winchester. :-) > Additionally one Thomas Bate was a Tithingman of Baughurst in > 1740-41. I am currently adding Nigel's notes re Ham Farm to the page for James ca1697-1762 and re-reading them reminds me I also need to add the James (III) Nigel mentions -- John Lewis Debian (Sid) with the GeneWeb genealogy package

On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:59:44 +0100 "Dorothy Jones" <[email protected]> wrote: > The Will of Edward BATES [1815] of The Rookery, Kingsclere > [proved 1826] is worded in a strange way as he lists > Hannah wife of James ALLEN no idea who these are > Elizabeth wife of Joel GOLD IGI has a Joel Gould bapt at Aldermaston on 4 Jul 1802 to Joel Gould and Elizabeth HINE, They were married on 25 Nov 1801 at Aldermaston. There are no Hine baptisms in the Aldermaston batch and no other Gould. No Gould/Gold entries for Kingsclere > Charlotte wife of William RUMBOLD This is an interesting bequest as I have Charlotte HINE (recorded as Hinds in my database) married William Rumbold in 1810. I can find no link to Edwards wife but the BTs for Wolverton are missing quite a few years. > 'The Daughters of my Wife Elizabeth BATES', to whom he > leaves £5 each. This suggests she may have had baseborn children of whom Charlotte could be one. > Son Edward, Executor, to inherit property after Widow > Elizabeth's death. He is the only one of these for whom I have a positive link to Edward & Elizabeth with a baptism at St. Mary on 8 May 1790. Abode was given as Common which at that time referred to a large part of the area north of Kingsclere. > Burial in Wolverton Churchyard in a brick grave with head > and foot stone. at least he was buried at Wolverton according to Hants Burial Index :-) -- John Lewis Debian (Sid) with the GeneWeb genealogy package