On Mon, 7 May 2007 08:30:32 +0100 "Beverley Smith" <[email protected]> wrote: > I would like to thank John Lewis for his kind answer re the > Bates/Smiths. I'm really grasping at straws here, but I think I'm > on the right track, I have a marriage at Hamstead Marshall > Berkshire in 1796 of a Rose Green to George Matthews a Sophia Bates > was a witness. There is no other Sophia Bates that we can find that > might fit. I can now confirm the family of James & Mary Bates of Frobury Farm consisted of James ca 1766 John ca 1767 Thomas ca 1769-1769 William ca 1770 Thomas ca 1771 Mary ca 1773 Charles ca 1774 Hannah ca 1777 &ca 1800 James Ruddle Moses ca 1778-1779 Sophia ca 1780 &1802 Joseph Smith Samuel ca 1782 Elizabeth 1785 all these have abode of parents as Frobury with one exception and that is the first child James but given his name matches his father I think it likely he is part of the family. I cannot prove one way or another which Mary (Green or Gallant) is the mother but given the marriage to Mary Green took place on 28 Jul 1766 and James was baptised in Dec 1766 I think it likely that Mary Green _is_ the mother. >Also the name Sophia has been used constantly in our > Family since this time.It would help if Mary Green had a sister or > relative called Rose we have no proof of who Rose Green was.So if > we could find baptisims for Mary and Rose it would be great also > for the James Bates. We have also a John Bates marrying a Betty > Matthews at Hamstead Marshall in 1793 , on the IGI if one puts in > the parents James Bates and Mary Green one gets quite a list of > offspring and there is a John b 1767 which would fit . Once again > thankyou. I really appreciate it. Regards Beverley Smith I'll have a look to see what I can find regarding the Greens later. I'm still looking at Bates and am curious about these census entries: 1851 Census, St. Mary Street, Bridgnorth: Mary Bates, head, U, 39 grocer and confectioner, Hampshire Jane Pearce, , U, 30, grocer and confectioner, Shrops Sarah Gwennop, sister, wid, 37, fund holder, Hampshire Sarah Louise Gwennop, niece, 8, London Lucy Ann Pearce, niece, 12, Shrops 1861 Census, Alveley, Shrops: Mary Bates, head, U, 49, farmer of 49 acres, Kingsclere Jane Pearce, partner, U, 40, Salop Sarah Gwennap, boarder, wid, 47, landed proprietor, Kingsclere James Gwennap, boarder, U, 18 annuitant, Hampton, Middx (this census entry is far from clear) 1871 Census, Hen Green House, Alveley, Shrops: Jane Pearce, head, U, 52, farmer of 41 acres, Stockton, Salop Sarah Gwinnap, sister, wid, 58, Kingsclere Mary ca1810 and Sarah Bates ca1812 were sisters born to Richard and Mirriam in Kingsclere Town where Richard was an Innkeeper (one of the few Bates I've looked at who were not yeoman farmers). But I have no idea who Jane Pearce is or how she is related to Sarah. FreeBMD has Marriages Dec 1841: BATES Sarah & GWENNAP Thomas, St Jas Westr 1 88. The only Thomas I could find in the 1841 census was a 70 year old :-) yet Sarah Gwennap seems to have had 2 children Sarah Louisa ca 1842 and James ca 1843 both born in Middlesex. Sarah L Gwennap married RYLEY James B, Sep Qtr 1866, Bridgnorth 6a 995 and 1871 Census has 1871 Census, Rectory Road, Woolwich: James B Ryley, head, 30, general practioner, Delhi, East Indies Sarah Louisa, wife, 27, Middlesex, London -- John Lewis Debian (Sid) with the GeneWeb genealogy package