On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:49:24 EDT DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 22/09/2009 11:23:29 GMT Daylight Time, > zen57162@zen.co.uk writes: > > There is no Eliza Tidbury born 1822 in HBapI but there is an EGLAH > illegitimate dau of Sarah Tidbury of North Sydmonton bapt on 27 Jan > 1822. The actual entry in Baptism Register is hard to read but it > does look like Eglah or Ealah rather than Eliza > > I already have her as EULAH Tidbury ca1822 in the database, her > mother Sarah (ca1800, dau of William & Charlotte Andrews) had another > illegitimate dau, Hannah in 1833, before marrying William Kewell in > 1826. > > John > > I don't think Eglah/Eulah Tidbury is not the same person who married > Francis Twitchen. I think she is the Heghlow (?) Tidbury, 20, of > Crookham who married Isaac Wilmot, 20, labourer of Crookham, on 30th > January 1842 at St Mary's Church, Thatcham. Isaac's father was John > Wilmot, labourer. The name of Heghlow's father was not shown. The > witnesses were Henry Wilmot and Elizabeth Wilmot. I've not tried to > locate the family as yet in any of the censuses. If you are right, and I suspect you are considering you know more about the Tidburys than anyone else on the list, we are still left with an Eliza born in Ecchinswell ca1822 (according to the 1851 Census) to find. If we now accept the marriage entry recording Eliza's father as Peter Tidbury as being correct then who was he. We know there was a Peter bapt on 20 Nov 1803 in the Kingsclere St. Mary register but he is the only Peter Tidbury I know about. Peter Tidbury and wife Charlotte are recorded as lodgers in household of Charles & Sarah Miles at Rydes Hill, Worplesdon Kent in 1851. Peter born ca1804 Sidmonton and Charlotte ca1820 Barnack Leics (true to form the Ancestry transcription has surname as Tedbury) There is no marriage entry on FreeBMD or on the IGI and I haven't found him in 1841 to know if he had any children. He could be the Peter given as father of Eliza but there are no entries in HBapI for children of any Peter Tidbury and he would be rather young at only 19 years of age in 1822. -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

> That does confirm Francis was the one born in Micheldever in 1817 > This might explain him missing on Census 1861 Re Marriage, this time though he is listed as Francis Walter, but Father is again Richard - Publican as with the first marriage. Name: Francis Walter Twitchin Age: Full Age Spouse Name: Emma Nicholls Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 21 Apr 1861 Parish: Saint Pancras Parish Church County: Middlesex Borough: Camden Father Name: Richard Twitchin Spouse Father Name: Thomas Nicholls Bob -- Genealogy Web Database http://www.bobhutchins.me.uk Bob recommends Linux Ubuntu 9.04

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:11:27 +0100 Bob Hutchins <bob@bobhutchins.me.uk> wrote: > Does your message indicate that you think the Francis who married i9n > Islington is the son of John & Rose Anne, as the marriage entry in the > parish register is: > > Name: Francis Twitchin Age: Full Age Spouse Name: Eliza Tidbury > Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 14 May 1854 Parish: Saint Mary > County: Middlesex Borough: Islington Father Name: Richard Twitchin > Spouse Father Name: Peter Tidbury That does confirm Francis was the one born in Micheldever in 1817 But father given for Eliza is most intriguing as the only Peter Tidbury I have was a younger brother of Sarah the mother of Eulah/Eliza!!! -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:22:00 +1000 "Joe Twitchin" <jo.boy@bigpond.com> wrote: > John I have just looked up my records regarding deaths in Islington > and found theses which *may* relate to the Francis/Eliza family. > Henry age 0 4th qtr 1850 ref 3 812 > Francis Walter age 0 4th qtr 1850 ref 3 810 > Eliza 3rd qtr (age not stated) 1856 ref 1b 113 > No sign of father Francis. Thanks Joe, I'll follow up on family of Francis & Eliza later. I persevered with the Wm Tarrant approach and found in HBapI a William born in Micheldever in 1817 and then found him in the 1851 Census NOT 1861 Census living next door to Francis and Eliza, Francis age 33, railway lab, born Micheldever so this fits with the Francis son of Richard & Caroline bapt 28 Nov 1817. His wife Eliza age 29 was born in Ecchinswell There is no Eliza Tidbury born 1822 in HBapI but there is an EGLAH illegitimate dau of Sarah Tidbury of North Sydmonton bapt on 27 Jan 1822. The actual entry in Baptism Register is hard to read but it does look like Eglah or Ealah rather than Eliza I already have her as EULAH Tidbury ca1822 in the database, her mother Sarah (ca1800, dau of William & Charlotte Andrews) had another illegitimate dau, Hannah in 1833, before marrying William Kewell in 1826. So that seems to have answered Nigel's original question regarding Eliza's origins. It looks rather like Francis & Eliza were not married when the 1851 Census was taken but doesn't explain why I cant find them in 1861. The Francis, son of John & Rosa Ann, born in Kingsclere in 1831 has to be the 18mth old Francis of Market Place buried at St. Mary in Mar 1833 -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

In a message dated 22/09/2009 12:32:44 GMT Daylight Time, zen57162@zen.co.uk writes: Peter Tidbury and wife Charlotte are recorded as lodgers in the household of Charles & Sarah Miles at Rydes Hill, Worplesdon Kent in 1851. Peter born ca1804 Sidmonton and Charlotte ca1820 Barnack Leics (true to form the Ancestry transcription has surname as Tedbury) John Thanks for finding this census entry. The mystery deepens. Did you see the previous two households? In the house next door was: Aaron Tidbury Head M 60 Ag lab born Bradfield, Berkshire Sarah Tidbury Wife M 58 Laundress Worplesdon Surrey Next door to them were: George Wheeler Head M 33 Labour Worplesdon Surrey Harriet Wheeler Wife M 28 Laundress Peper Harow Surrey Alfred Wheeler Son 1 Worplesdon Surrey Henry Tidbury Brother-in-law Ag Lab 24 Peper Harow Surrey Ann Tidbury Sister-in-law 21 Laundress Peper Harow Surrey There is a baptism on the IGI for Aaron Tidbury who was baptised on 21st June 1789 in Bradfield, Berkshire, the son of Mark and Ann Tidberry. However I can't see any connection with these Tidburys and Peter and Charlotte Tidbury. It surely cannot be a coincidence that they are all living so close together. Debbie

On Mon, 2009-09-21 at 15:53 +0100, Nigel St C Gerdes wrote: > Hi List, > > While refreshing the Twitchin tree, I found this marriage at St Mary Islington > which took place after three sets of banns on 14 May 1854. Both were of the > parish of Islington. > > A one name study of Twitchin (en) makes it fairly confident to identify that > Francis was born 12 Sept 1831 and baptised 23 Nov 1831 at Kingsclere, Hants > to John and Rose Anne Twitchen nee Chance. But who is ElizaTidbury and does > she have any other assoication with the Tidbury family of North Hampshire/ > Berkshire? Can anybody help? Hi Nigel, Does your message indicate that you think the Francis who married i9n Islington is the son of John & Rose Anne, as the marriage entry in the parish register is: Name: Francis Twitchin Age: Full Age Spouse Name: Eliza Tidbury Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 14 May 1854 Parish: Saint Mary County: Middlesex Borough: Islington Father Name: Richard Twitchin Spouse Father Name: Peter Tidbury Bob Genealogy Web Database http://www.bobhutchins.me.uk Bob recommends Linux Ubuntu 9.04

Hello John, Just a little input re Francis and Eliza (nee Tidbury)1851 he living at 17 Albany Place Isington with wife Eiza and at same address is Wm and Chatlotte Tarrant also from Micheldever. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "john lewis" <zen57162@zen.co.uk> To: <eng-hampshire-kingsclere@rootsweb.com> Cc: <eng-hampshire-kingsclere@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [King] Francis TWITCHEN = Eliza TIDBURY > On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:53:59 +0100 > Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > I have that Francis dying in 1833!! I cannot find him in any census nor > can I find any Francis with a wife Eliza in 1861. Have you managed to > find him? > > -- > John Lewis > Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:25:53 +1000 "Joe Twitchin" <jo.boy@bigpond.com> wrote: > Just a little input re Francis and Eliza (nee Tidbury)1851 he living > at 17 Albany Place Isington with wife Eiza and at same address is Wm > and Chatlotte Tarrant also from Micheldever. Hi Joe even with that help I still cannot find them in the 1861 census, if you are using the Ancestry transcription what is the exact spelling of your input into the search fields please. -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

The Peter Tidbury who was born in 1803 in Kingsclere (son of William Tidbury and Charlotte Andrews) was possibly transported to Australia. He is listed in the Criminal Registers 1791-1892 on Ancestry: Peter Tidbury Easter Session 1821 Crime: Larceny Sentence: Transportation 7 years. The name Peter Tidbury also appears in the Criminal Petitions Index 1819 -1839: TIDBURY Peter Felony HAM 13 May 1825 7y Penitentiary; Retribution; FP 1824 76 Ok48. I don't know if this means that the sentence was changed on appeal and he was sent to prison rather than being transported. I've got a note that the Criminal Petitions Index records are at the National Archives under HO 17. I've not yet checked out any of these records. I have no marriage for Peter Tidbury and have been unable to find him in any censuses. I don't have a record of any other Peter Tidburys. Debbie

In a message dated 22/09/2009 11:23:29 GMT Daylight Time, zen57162@zen.co.uk writes: There is no Eliza Tidbury born 1822 in HBapI but there is an EGLAH illegitimate dau of Sarah Tidbury of North Sydmonton bapt on 27 Jan 1822. The actual entry in Baptism Register is hard to read but it does look like Eglah or Ealah rather than Eliza I already have her as EULAH Tidbury ca1822 in the database, her mother Sarah (ca1800, dau of William & Charlotte Andrews) had another illegitimate dau, Hannah in 1833, before marrying William Kewell in 1826. John I don't think Eglah/Eulah Tidbury is not the same person who married Francis Twitchen. I think she is the Heghlow (?) Tidbury, 20, of Crookham who married Isaac Wilmot, 20, labourer of Crookham, on 30th January 1842 at St Mary's Church, Thatcham. Isaac's father was John Wilmot, labourer. The name of Heghlow's father was not shown. The witnesses were Henry Wilmot and Elizabeth Wilmot. I've not tried to locate the family as yet in any of the censuses. Debbie Kennett

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:53:59 +0100 Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > While refreshing the Twitchin tree, I found this marriage at St Mary > Islington which took place after three sets of banns on 14 May 1854. > Both were of the parish of Islington. > > A one name study of Twitchin (en) makes it fairly confident to > identify that Francis was born 12 Sept 1831 and baptised 23 Nov 1831 > at Kingsclere, Hants to John and Rose Anne Twitchen nee Chance. But > who is ElizaTidbury and does she have any other assoication with the > Tidbury family of North Hampshire/ Berkshire? Can anybody help? Hi Nigel I have that Francis dying in 1833!! I cannot find him in any census nor can I find any Francis with a wife Eliza in 1861. Have you managed to find him? -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

Hi List, While refreshing the Twitchin tree, I found this marriage at St Mary Islington which took place after three sets of banns on 14 May 1854. Both were of the parish of Islington. A one name study of Twitchin (en) makes it fairly confident to identify that Francis was born 12 Sept 1831 and baptised 23 Nov 1831 at Kingsclere, Hants to John and Rose Anne Twitchen nee Chance. But who is ElizaTidbury and does she have any other assoication with the Tidbury family of North Hampshire/ Berkshire? Can anybody help? Regards, Nigel

I received this yesterday, which may be of interest to some of you. It's completely free and loads onto browsers IE, Firefox (Windows, Mac & Linux) and Safari. Not only does it provide links to all the usual sites, but also quite a few I had never heard of. On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 16:18 -0600, irl-tipperary-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > There is a new genealogy toolbar, created by Manchester & Lancashire > Family > History Society. > It is heavy on English, Scottish and Irish resources. Not US. > I found it interesting. There are links to important sites. > If you think this would be of interest, you can download the toolbar > at: > http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/ -- Genealogy Web Database http://www.bobhutchins.me.uk Bob recommends Linux Ubuntu 9.04

Hi List, I have found and share a new link between the ROLFE and COPPERTHWAITE Kingsclere families both from arising from Kingsclere but living at Winchester St, Overton, Hants and next door to each other in the 1841 census. John Copperthwaite was an apprentice blacksmith in the H/H of John Dodd (started in 1840for six years) and married the girl next door but the marriage took place (perhaps because of her young age or that she was in service) up in Chelsea RD in 1848. He must have watched her growing up and waited until she was of age and his apprenticeship was finished. This material extends one of the Rolfe trees with more data. Details are below, It does call into question exactly who was the Joseph Rolfe who was the father of Isaac Rolfe (1834-1835) at Kingsclere. A younger couple than Joseph and Mary Rolfe nee Nash I would expect. John Stevens Rolfe was baptised John Stephen Rolfe. The 1841 census has Joseph Rolfe b ca 1773 in Overton and his son and daughter in law and grandchildren are in the same household including Mary Rolfe who married John Copperthwaite.The spelling of Copperthwaite is highly variable in the census data and even gets as far as Coppersmith. Can anybody add any more details on either family? Regards, Nigel Details. Joseph Rolfe of Kingsclere (36868), b. circa 1773 at Kingsclere Town, Hants, UK, d. between 1849 and 1850 +Mary Nash (45412), b. circa 1772 at Overton, Hants, UK, m. 11 Feb 1802 at Overton, Hants, UK, d. circa 1837 Overton |-- John Stevens Rolfe (45395), b. circa 1804 at Overton, Hants, UK, d. circa 1879 Overton | +Sarah Beal (45396), b. circa 1800 at Hants, m. 13 Apr 1826 at Overton, Hants, UK, d. before 1861 (perhaps the death just recorded in Whitchurch H. RD as Female Rolfe) | |-- William Rolfe (45397), b. circa 1827 at Overton, Hants, UK | | +Louisa (--?--) (45411), b. circa 1834 at Kensington, Middlesex, UK | |-- Mary Rolfe (24966), b. circa 1831 at Weston, Hants, d. circa Sep 1899 | | +John Coperthwaite (19266), b. circa 1824 at Kingsclere, Hants, UK, m. circa 1848, d. circa Dec 1889 | | |-- Elizabeth Coperthwaite (24967), b. circa 1849 at Weston, Hants, UK | | | +(--?--) Unknown (25057), m. circa Mar 1878 | | |-- Annie Maria Copperthwaite (24968), b. circa 1850 at Weston, Hants, UK | | | +(--?--) Unknown (25065), m. circa Mar 1873 | | \-- Mary Jane Coperthwaite (25062), b. circa Jun 1861 | |-- James Rolfe (45398), b. circa 1834 at Hants, UK | |-- Charles Rolfe (45399), b. circa 1838 at Hants, UK | \-- Henry Rolfe (45400), b. circa 1840 at Overton, Hants, UK | +Catherine Goodwin Rudd (45404), b. circa 1844 at Limmerick, Ireland, UK, m. circa 1868 | |-- George Rolfe (45405), b. circa 1867 at Chelsea, Middlesex, UK | |-- Catherine Rolfe (45406), b. circa 1870 at Chelsea, Middlesex, UK | |-- Mary Rolfe (45407), b. circa 1872 at Chelsea, Middlesex, UK | |-- Elizabeth Rolfe (45408), b. circa 1874 at Chelsea, Middlesex, UK | |-- Clara Rolfe (45409), b. circa 1879 at Chelsea, Middlesex, UK | \-- James Rolfe (45410), b. circa 1880 at Chelsea, Middlesex, UK |-- Elizabeth Anne Rolfe (45413), b. circa 1805 |-- Sarah Rolfe (45415), b. circa 1808 \-- Joseph Rolfe (45414), b. circa 1810, d. circa 1830

On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:27:23 +0100 Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > Jane Cummins was baptised 12 Feb 1770 at Kingsclere to William and > Sarah Cummins nee Webb so if she was born the same year then she > would have been 45 in 1815 for the birth of her last child, late but > not impossible. She was buried at All Saints, Hannington on 10 Oct > 1849 so clearly was in good health to live 79 years. Her parents > married 06 Nov 1769 at Kingsclere and Jane Cummins appears to be the > first of four children. Since she was not recorded as baseborn then > she is very likely to have been born between Nov 1769 and Feb 1770. Thanks Nigel, I had her born in 1868 which as you point out is unlikely, have amended her birth to ca Jan 1770 -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

Good morning Nigel I have more than one possible Mary Randall in my data base I'll look them out and contact you asap but have to go out now. Do you have any idea of her age at all? Regards Beverley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel St C Gerdes" <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> To: <eng-hampshire-kingsclere@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [King] RANDALL > Hi Shelia, Beverley and list, > > Just a long shot, I have a Mary Randal in my family tree. She married > Abraham Waterage 05 Feb 1749 Dummer, Hants (a few miles south of > Kingsclere). > They had three daughters and lived at Wootton St Lawrence which is where > the > Waterage family came from. > > I don't have a baptism or parents for Mary, has anybody got any more on > her? > > Regards, > > Nigel Gerdes > > PS. Longparish lives up to its name and sometimes it was easier to baptise > infants in the neighbouring parishes of Barton Stacey and Hurstbourne > Tarrant > to the south and north respectively. > >> Many thanks Beverley, unfortunately I don't have any information about >> her >> parents. >> >> The marriage record states that she was from Longparish but a kind lister >> looked at the PR for Longparish but failed to find her. >> >> Hannah has been a brick wall of mine for many years. >> >> >> Regards >> Sheila >> NSW >> >> Subject: Re: [King] RANDALL >> >> > Hi! Sheila >> > Do you have any idea of parents for Hannah?I'll keep a look out for >> > you. >> > Regards Beverley >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> >From Kingsclere. ALL SURNAMES IN CAPITAL LETTERS PLEASE. >> >> --------------------------------------- >> If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be unsubscribed, please email >> eng-hampshire-kingsclere-admin@rootsweb.com >> --------------------------------------- >> Make sure your Anti Virus Protection is updated and do a weekly backup of >> your files. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-HAMPSHIRE-KINGSCLERE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > --------------------------------------- >>From Kingsclere. ALL SURNAMES IN CAPITAL LETTERS PLEASE. > --------------------------------------- > If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be unsubscribed, please email > eng-hampshire-kingsclere-admin@rootsweb.com > --------------------------------------- > Make sure your Anti Virus Protection is updated and do a weekly backup of > your files. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HAMPSHIRE-KINGSCLERE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.92/2364 - Release Date: 09/11/09 17:51:00

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 08:32:14 +0100 "beverley anne smith" <jm.ba.smith@talktalk.net> wrote: > July 13th 1929 at Newbury Congregational ,by A H Fowler M.A. > Winifred Gladys Leslie Frost , age 23yrs spinster, address 68 West > St Newbury, Father William Frederick Frost a Coach Fitter to > Ebeneezer Frank Prismall age 27yrs, Occupation;Compositor . address; > 59 Oakdene Road, Watford, Father Ernest Edward Prismall ; Veterinary > Surgeon. The witnesses were ; R Huntley (don't know this name) K.E > Frost (sister) , E.E. Prismall (Father) W.F. Frost (Father) Ernest Edward Prismall married Clara Jane Durrant Sep Qtr 1890, Mutford RD, Sufolk. This marriage is on the website but not the three children born before Ebeneezer Frank Marion R ca 1895 Arthur D ca 1897 Christopher E ca 1898 all born in Chievely E E Prismall's father was Samuel Prismall born ca 1819, Kingsclere -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:17:29 +0100 Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > It look like Caroline Pocock nee Birchley is the mother in law of > Jane Kewell, but I have not yet seen a baptism for Jane's husband > Thomas to place him in his family, there is a gap at just the right > time for him ca 1824 and > it looks as if he was a replacement child for an older Thomas who > died very young using the data on John's website. this is news to me, have I missed something ;-) There is no baptism for a Thomas born in East Woodhay in Hants Bapt Index. There is one born Ecchinswell on 27 Jan 1823 and bapt at St. Lawrence on 1 May 1825 (St. Mary register). His parents were John & Mary Ann. > Thomas was a bricklayer so was James the husband of Caroline. Ten > years earlier James was a mason. It looks high probable this is the > right family for Thomas Pocock b ca 1824 East Woodhay. Agreed and will put him there for now, despite no evidence -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:58:13 EDT DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com wrote: > The Alice Kewell born c.1875 cannot be the daughter of Robert Kewell > and Martha Chandler as Robert Kewell died in 1873 in Enborne and was > buried on 15th April 1873 in Enborne age 37 years. I presume she was > born illegitimately after Robert's death. possible father John Cooper ?? -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

Hi Shelia, Beverley and list, Just a long shot, I have a Mary Randal in my family tree. She married Abraham Waterage 05 Feb 1749 Dummer, Hants (a few miles south of Kingsclere). They had three daughters and lived at Wootton St Lawrence which is where the Waterage family came from. I don't have a baptism or parents for Mary, has anybody got any more on her? Regards, Nigel Gerdes PS. Longparish lives up to its name and sometimes it was easier to baptise infants in the neighbouring parishes of Barton Stacey and Hurstbourne Tarrant to the south and north respectively. > Many thanks Beverley, unfortunately I don't have any information about her > parents. > > The marriage record states that she was from Longparish but a kind lister > looked at the PR for Longparish but failed to find her. > > Hannah has been a brick wall of mine for many years. > > > Regards > Sheila > NSW > > Subject: Re: [King] RANDALL > > > Hi! Sheila > > Do you have any idea of parents for Hannah?I'll keep a look out for you. > > Regards Beverley > > --------------------------------------- > > >From Kingsclere. ALL SURNAMES IN CAPITAL LETTERS PLEASE. > > --------------------------------------- > If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be unsubscribed, please email > eng-hampshire-kingsclere-admin@rootsweb.com > --------------------------------------- > Make sure your Anti Virus Protection is updated and do a weekly backup of > your files. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HAMPSHIRE-KINGSCLERE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message