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Hi Barbara, Thanks for the info. The second item was new to me and since Sophia Stevens was born Sophia Smith, I am always very interested in any Smith connections since I still trying to sort out all the Smith families in the Kingsclere area. We have now traced Robert Stevens. He was indeed the one you indicated and I expect a fuller account of him will appear on John's website soon. His son calling the home he had built Hurstbourne was a big clue and unlocked the puzzle. Regards, Nigel > Hello Nigel, > > Robert son of John and Mary STEPHENS living in Town, Kingsclere, occ > Carpenter baptised 25 November 1827 > As spelt in the Kingsclere Parish Register. > > There is the baptism of a daughter Frances to Daniel and Sophia > STEVENS of Town occ Carpenter born 8th August baptism > 1 September 1825. > > Kind regards > > Barbara Lewis Mallyon > Basingstoke, Hants. UK > BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nigel St C Gerdes" <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> > To: <eng-hampshire-kingsclere@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 6:39 PM > Subject: [King] John STEVENS born ca 1856 Kingsclere, Hants or near by >

On Wed, 12 May 2010 09:50:40 +0100 john lewis <zen57162@zen.co.uk> wrote: > I realised after ordering the Marriage Cert that both Emma's had a > father named William! So it won't be conclusive proof after all :-( The marriage cert has just arrived ;-) 1857. Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the parish of All Saints in the County of Southampton Entry no 149 March 26th James Hussey, full, widower, keeper, Back of the Walls, John Hussey, labourer Emma Kearsley, full, spinster, -, same place, William Kearsley, baker Married after banns by W A Crawford Both signed James Hussey, Emma Kersley Witnesses: both signed James Hunt, Jane Watts -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

Hello Nigel and John that is absolutely fantastic thank you both very much, I did wonder about Elizabeth Alexander but didn't have any evidence to link it. I had a walk round in Kingsclere a couple of weekends ago and located the old forge in George St which by my reckoning is where the Wheelers and Robert lived in 1841. I also found in the church yard in Ecchinswell a gravestone showing Richard Stevens died Oct 30 1854 aged 77 and his wife Mary died Nov 4 1851 aged 75, on your database you have a Richard baptised 28 mar 1777 same chap maybe. I have not been able to match but also found a John Stevens b July 16 1835 d jan 8 1892 and wife Margaret hard to read but i believe it is d sept 2 1925. also John Richard Stevens d 8 feb 1979, Dorothy May Stevens d 21 apr 1995, husband of the current Mrs Stevens who lives in the village, John 16 7 1938 to 9 5 2006. I have a little bit of work to do now, please let me know if you want photos of the stones once I get some cerificates back I will email you and send you copies if you wish. best regards Ady On 17 May 2010 00:14, Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > Ady, > > I think you have a result - see attachment. So pleased to be able to > help. > Look forward to hearing about the certificates when you get them. Looks > like > you can start tracing Elizabeth Alexander at Hurstbourne, Hants as well. > Please do drop a thank you to John, he works very hard helping trace > families > as do many others on the Rootsweb Kingsclere news group. We both have a > deep > knowledge of the folk in North Hampshire and often work together. His > database > is published on the web at: > > http://startx.co.uk:2317/Kingsclere? > > My smaller database using the same software is offline and concentrates > more > on the area around Basingstoke while John makes Kingsclere his core area. > We > overlap and keep correcting and refining our shared findings as we try to > map > out everybody in the area for which we have a great affinity and a shared > Smith family association going back to the early 1600's. > > Best wishes, > > Nigel > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> > To: john lewis <zen57162@zen.co.uk>, eng-hampshire-kingsclere@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 23:56:33 +0100 > Subject: Re: [King] John STEVENS born ca 1856 Kingsclere, Hants or near by > > On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:39:33 +0100 > > > > Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > > > Hi List, > > > > > > I am in correspondence with a researcher tracing their > > > Ecchinswell/Kingsclere STEVENS family. > > > > > > In the course of doing census searches I found in the 1881 census at > > > St Giles Reading, Berks at 23 Silver St an unmarried lodger called > > > John STEVENS giving his birth year as 1856 and a birthplace of > > > Kingsclere, Hants. His occupation was Shoeblack. > > > > > > He might be: > > > > > > Birth FreeBMD Whitchurch 1857 1Q 2c 176 STEVENS, John Alexander > > > > > > There is a Robert STEVENS and Elizabeth ALEXANDER on the same page at > > > Marriage FreeBMD Andover 1851 2Q 7 63. > > > > 1851 Census Hurstbourne Tarrant > > George Green, head, 36, grocer, Hurstbourne > > Mary , wife, 30, Hurstbourne > > Alfred George , son, 11, -, Hurstbourne > > John Alexander , son, 2 mo, -, Hurstbourne > > Robert Stevens, servant, 25, shoemaker, Ecchinswell > > Elizabeth Alexander, visitor, 32, -, Hurstbourne > > > > Is this too much of a co-incidence! > > > > John and List > > Terrific - A Result - The list working really well. Looks like Mary Green > could be the sister of Elizabeth Alexander. We now can go for the > certificates > with strong confidence. I had missed the visitor in the 1851 H/H and had > only > started thinking about a Stevens = Alexander marriage when I went looking > later in the area and spotted a FreeBMD birth for John Alexander Stevens > having seen a possible Stevens =Alexander marriage later in 1851 in > Andover > RD. John Alexander Stevens dies in 1883 St Pancras RD in London with a > given > age of 25. > > His father Robert by this stage had remarried to Jane Newby on 02 Oct 1870 > at > the Parish Church in Poplar. In the 1881 he was living with Jane at > Woking, > Surrey, as a Grocer and Shoemaker and in the 1891 was a Shoemaker and > Grocer > still living at Woking. A possible death for him age 88 is 1915 FreeBMD > Guildford 4Q 2a 123 and his wife Jane was born ca 1821 in Norfolk, with a > father Jonathan Newby who was a Farm Steward, has a possible death of 1894 > FreeBMD Guildford 1Q 2a 47. Jane and Robert do not appear to have had any > children and John Alexander's brother William Henry b 1854 Hants went on > to > marry Alice Emma Davey on 04 Aug 1883 at St Peter, West Hackney, Middlesex > (Wow - same church as were some of my Gerdes family were baptised at about > the > same time!). > > William Henry called his house in the 1901 and 1911 census 'Hurstbourne' > which > was a very helpful clue but stated on some occasions he was born at North > Waltham, Hants but finally stated in the 1911 he had been born near > Hurstbourne which is more likely since the FreeBMD looks to be Whitchurch > Hants RD for John Alexander Stevens. The family association with North > Waltham is not yet resolved. > > William and Alice Emma had three children Alfred William b ca 1885 Hackney > , > Ethel M. b ca 1886 Hackney and Violet A. b ca 1890 1 Nightingdale Road, > Clapton . The youngest was still with her parents in the 1911 census. > > A good development for the Stevens tree on the Kingsclere Website and a big > thank you to my e-mailer who provided the data for the search for William > Henry and his brother John who had proved, to date, hard to trace. Great to > see another person reunited with their Kingsclere Family. > > I will forward this email to her and I expect John you will get a big thank > you for spotting the last key piece in the jigsaw which I had overlooked. > > Regards, > > Nigel Gerdes > > > In 1861 Robert born Ecchinswell is in household of Henry & Emma Ford, > > Emma age 34, born Ecchinswell. Robert is described as brother. So that > > confirms Robert as a son of John Stevens & Mary Ann Rode. > > > > I think John Stevens must have died as Mary Ann Wheeler with 3 Stevens > > children is recorded in George Street, Kingsclere in 1841, Thomas > > Wheeler, 43, blacksmith is the husband (presumably). Too late at > > night to start checking for a marriage but will do so tomorrow. > > > > He did. Mary Ann Rode married John Stevens and after his death in 1828 her > second husband was Thomas Wheeler - so all is clear. Details are already > on > the Kingsclere Website. > > > Baptism entries have both Emma & Robert born Kingsclere Town but family > > could have moved to Ecchinswell and both thought they were born there. > > > > This Robert is recorded as a letter carrier in 1871, a boot/shoemaker & > > grocer in 1881/1891 but with a wife Jane. In 1871 he has a 14 year > > old son John > > > > Same Robert b ca 1827 Kingsclere Town see above for details. > > -- Regards Ady S

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> On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:39:33 +0100 > > Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > > Hi List, > > > > I am in correspondence with a researcher tracing their > > Ecchinswell/Kingsclere STEVENS family. > > > > In the course of doing census searches I found in the 1881 census at > > St Giles Reading, Berks at 23 Silver St an unmarried lodger called > > John STEVENS giving his birth year as 1856 and a birthplace of > > Kingsclere, Hants. His occupation was Shoeblack. > > > > He might be: > > > > Birth FreeBMD Whitchurch 1857 1Q 2c 176 STEVENS, John Alexander > > > > There is a Robert STEVENS and Elizabeth ALEXANDER on the same page at > > Marriage FreeBMD Andover 1851 2Q 7 63. > > 1851 Census Hurstbourne Tarrant > George Green, head, 36, grocer, Hurstbourne > Mary , wife, 30, Hurstbourne > Alfred George , son, 11, -, Hurstbourne > John Alexander , son, 2 mo, -, Hurstbourne > Robert Stevens, servant, 25, shoemaker, Ecchinswell > Elizabeth Alexander, visitor, 32, -, Hurstbourne > > Is this too much of a co-incidence! > John and List Terrific - A Result - The list working really well. Looks like Mary Green could be the sister of Elizabeth Alexander. We now can go for the certificates with strong confidence. I had missed the visitor in the 1851 H/H and had only started thinking about a Stevens = Alexander marriage when I went looking later in the area and spotted a FreeBMD birth for John Alexander Stevens having seen a possible Stevens =Alexander marriage later in 1851 in Andover RD. John Alexander Stevens dies in 1883 St Pancras RD in London with a given age of 25. His father Robert by this stage had remarried to Jane Newby on 02 Oct 1870 at the Parish Church in Poplar. In the 1881 he was living with Jane at Woking, Surrey, as a Grocer and Shoemaker and in the 1891 was a Shoemaker and Grocer still living at Woking. A possible death for him age 88 is 1915 FreeBMD Guildford 4Q 2a 123 and his wife Jane was born ca 1821 in Norfolk, with a father Jonathan Newby who was a Farm Steward, has a possible death of 1894 FreeBMD Guildford 1Q 2a 47. Jane and Robert do not appear to have had any children and John Alexander's brother William Henry b 1854 Hants went on to marry Alice Emma Davey on 04 Aug 1883 at St Peter, West Hackney, Middlesex (Wow - same church as were some of my Gerdes family were baptised at about the same time!). William Henry called his house in the 1901 and 1911 census 'Hurstbourne' which was a very helpful clue but stated on some occasions he was born at North Waltham, Hants but finally stated in the 1911 he had been born near Hurstbourne which is more likely since the FreeBMD looks to be Whitchurch Hants RD for John Alexander Stevens. The family association with North Waltham is not yet resolved. William and Alice Emma had three children Alfred William b ca 1885 Hackney , Ethel M. b ca 1886 Hackney and Violet A. b ca 1890 1 Nightingdale Road, Clapton . The youngest was still with her parents in the 1911 census. A good development for the Stevens tree on the Kingsclere Website and a big thank you to my e-mailer who provided the data for the search for William Henry and his brother John who had proved, to date, hard to trace. Great to see another person reunited with their Kingsclere Family. I will forward this email to her and I expect John you will get a big thank you for spotting the last key piece in the jigsaw which I had overlooked. Regards, Nigel Gerdes > In 1861 Robert born Ecchinswell is in household of Henry & Emma Ford, > Emma age 34, born Ecchinswell. Robert is described as brother. So that > confirms Robert as a son of John Stevens & Mary Ann Rode. > > I think John Stevens must have died as Mary Ann Wheeler with 3 Stevens > children is recorded in George Street, Kingsclere in 1841, Thomas > Wheeler, 43, blacksmith is the husband (presumably). Too late at > night to start checking for a marriage but will do so tomorrow. > He did. Mary Ann Rode married John Stevens and after his death in 1828 her second husband was Thomas Wheeler - so all is clear. Details are already on the Kingsclere Website. > Baptism entries have both Emma & Robert born Kingsclere Town but family > could have moved to Ecchinswell and both thought they were born there. > > This Robert is recorded as a letter carrier in 1871, a boot/shoemaker & > grocer in 1881/1891 but with a wife Jane. In 1871 he has a 14 year > old son John > Same Robert b ca 1827 Kingsclere Town see above for details.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:39:33 +0100 Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > Hi List, > > I am in correspondence with a researcher tracing their > Ecchinswell/Kingsclere STEVENS family. > > In the course of doing census searches I found in the 1881 census at > St Giles Reading, Berks at 23 Silver St an unmarried lodger called > John STEVENS giving his birth year as 1856 and a birthplace of > Kingsclere, Hants. His occupation was Shoeblack. > > He might be: > > Birth FreeBMD Whitchurch 1857 1Q 2c 176 STEVENS, John Alexander > > There is a Robert STEVENS and Elizabeth ALEXANDER on the same page at > Marriage FreeBMD Andover 1851 2Q 7 63. 1851 Census Hurstbourne Tarrant George Green, head, 36, grocer, Hurstbourne Mary , wife, 30, Hurstbourne Alfred George , son, 11, -, Hurstbourne John Alexander , son, 2 mo, -, Hurstbourne Robert Stevens, servant, 25, shoemaker, Ecchinswell Elizabeth Alexander, visitor, 32, -, Hurstbourne Is this too much of a co-incidence! In 1861 Robert born Ecchinswell is in household of Henry & Emma Ford, Emma age 34, born Ecchinswell. Robert is described as brother. So that confirms Robert as a son of John Stevens & Mary Ann Rode. I think John Stevens must have died as Mary Ann Wheeler with 3 Stevens children is recorded in George Street, Kingsclere in 1841, Thomas Wheeler, 43, blacksmith is the husband (presumably). Too late at night to start checking for a marriage but will do so tomorrow. Baptism entries have both Emma & Robert born Kingsclere Town but family could have moved to Ecchinswell and both thought they were born there. This Robert is recorded as a letter carrier in 1871, a boot/shoemaker & grocer in 1881/1891 but with a wife Jane. In 1871 he has a 14 year old son John -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

Hello Nigel, Robert son of John and Mary STEPHENS living in Town, Kingsclere, occ Carpenter baptised 25 November 1827 As spelt in the Kingsclere Parish Register. There is the baptism of a daughter Frances to Daniel and Sophia STEVENS of Town occ Carpenter born 8th August baptism 1 September 1825. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel St C Gerdes" <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> To: <eng-hampshire-kingsclere@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 6:39 PM Subject: [King] John STEVENS born ca 1856 Kingsclere, Hants or near by > Hi List, > > I am in correspondence with a researcher tracing their > Ecchinswell/Kingsclere > STEVENS family. > > In the course of doing census searches I found in the 1881 census at > St Giles > Reading, Berks at 23 Silver St an unmarried lodger called John > STEVENS giving > his birth year as 1856 and a birthplace of Kingsclere, Hants. His > occupation > was Shoeblack. > > He might be: > > Birth FreeBMD Whitchurch 1857 1Q 2c 176 STEVENS, John Alexander > > There is a Robert STEVENS and Elizabeth ALEXANDER on the same page > at Marriage > FreeBMD Andover 1851 2Q 7 63. > > If it all matches Robert STEVENS could be Robert STEVENS b 1827 > Kingsclere > Town baptised 25 Nov 1827 and described on John's website. We do > know Robert > b 1827 was a shoemaker and that he was at Hurstbourne Tarrant in the > 1851 > census > > Can anybody help with a PR baptism or his family, there are no > records for > this person on John's website? > > Thanks in advance for any assistance, before having to send for the > certificate to investigate. > > Regards, > > Nigel >

Hi List, I am in correspondence with a researcher tracing their Ecchinswell/Kingsclere STEVENS family. In the course of doing census searches I found in the 1881 census at St Giles Reading, Berks at 23 Silver St an unmarried lodger called John STEVENS giving his birth year as 1856 and a birthplace of Kingsclere, Hants. His occupation was Shoeblack. He might be: Birth FreeBMD Whitchurch 1857 1Q 2c 176 STEVENS, John Alexander There is a Robert STEVENS and Elizabeth ALEXANDER on the same page at Marriage FreeBMD Andover 1851 2Q 7 63. If it all matches Robert STEVENS could be Robert STEVENS b 1827 Kingsclere Town baptised 25 Nov 1827 and described on John's website. We do know Robert b 1827 was a shoemaker and that he was at Hurstbourne Tarrant in the 1851 census Can anybody help with a PR baptism or his family, there are no records for this person on John's website? Thanks in advance for any assistance, before having to send for the certificate to investigate. Regards, Nigel

Note: Forwarded as I forgot to post this to the list as well as to John. Postscript I have found the website that gave me the data. There is much more than the last time I looked and I have emailed the keeper with information on James Hussey marrying Emma Kersley. He describes Letitia's parents as Thomas and Mary. The Hampshire marriage index makes their identification as Thomas Prince and Mary Mears who married 12 Dec 1772 Old Basing straight forward. http://homepage.mac.com/g.cheeseman/firstfamilies.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear John and List, I have put some notes in line to reply to John. Hopefully it will help Kersley researchers if they 'google' up the news post. Regards, Nigel > On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:11:29 +0100 > > Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > > Since we have two Emma's in the 1861 it looks to me as if it is > > another Emma Ke(a)rsley who married James Hussey and not Emma Lawes > > as a widow Ke(a)rsley. > > > > And I think the wife of James Hussey will prove to be Emma Kersley > > born ca 1822 to William and Letitia Kersley nee Prince. Her father > > was a baker and grocer and had been baptised at Mapledurwell on 12 > > May 1793 with a mother Sarah Kersley who was born ca 1773. Now we can > > see how James Hussey moved from being a woodman to a baker, he may > > well have learnt the trade from his new father in law and then set up > > on his own. He might even have met his future wife while supplying > > wood for burning at the bakery. > > I have to admit I was wrong in thinking it was Emma Lawes that married > James Hussey, Emma Kersley, widow is to be found in census records from > 1851 to 1891, in 1871 she has her daughter Isabel P living with her in > Basingstoke, so couldn't possibly be the Emma who married in 1857. > > I already had the William & Letita Kearsley family in the database as > I think it was their son Thomas (Tom) who married Emma Lawes (but I > could just as well be wrong on this score also, so must look for a > Tom Kersley to be on the safe side). Dangerous to assume - even the IGI shows another possible Tom, and there might be more. There were many many Kersely families in the area - the marriage cert will help. My understanding is that the 'Tom' Kersley b ca 1828 was Thomas John Kersely born to William and Letitia Kersley and that he married Bridget Buckley 18 Mar 1856 at Ballarat, Victoria, Australia in a C of E church and went on to have 10 children. Thereafter he died 13 Aug 1896 St Arnaud, Victoria, Australian and was buried 16 Aug 1896 in the RC Cem, St Arnaud, Australia. He had been an innkeeper and a miner. I don't have a year of emigration or the circumstances. Perhaps it was the 'Gold Rush'. His brother Robert who was baptised at Mapledurwell 1 3Aug 1834 went to Australia in 1855 and married Catherine Murray on 16 May 1867 at Mudgee, NSW, Australia and had six children before dying 23 March 1915. One of his children was called Edgar Prince Kersley. > > I didn't have Letitia's maiden name as I hadn't found a marriage so > will be interested in knowing that details please Nigel. I don't have a marriage and neither do I have a reason recorded how I arrived at Letitia Prince. (Shame on me - I must try harder with notes and sources. ). I do have a burial for her 25 Nov 1836 at Mapledurwell with a given age of 42 but I have not traced her baptism. I think the marriage came from a website that described the Australians in the next generation. (See above.) Given the proximity to Odiham it is very possible the marriage was not a C of E one since there was a thriving large independent church at Odiham and the family baptisms might be there as well. > > I realised after ordering the Marriage Cert that both Emma's had a > father named William! So it won't be conclusive proof after all :-( > But the father's surname should be recorded so the certificate and witnesses should be a great help.

On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:11:29 +0100 Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > In the 1851 census William Kersley b ca 1793 was at Monk Sherborne > and his daughter Emma was with him. P.S. No wonder I didn't find them. Ancestry has transcribed name as HEISLEY -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:11:29 +0100 Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > Since we have two Emma's in the 1861 it looks to me as if it is > another Emma Ke(a)rsley who married James Hussey and not Emma Lawes > as a widow Ke(a)rsley. > > And I think the wife of James Hussey will prove to be Emma Kersley > born ca 1822 to William and Letitia Kersley nee Prince. Her father > was a baker and grocer and had been baptised at Mapledurwell on 12 > May 1793 with a mother Sarah Kersley who was born ca 1773. Now we can > see how James Hussey moved from being a woodman to a baker, he may > well have learnt the trade from his new father in law and then set up > on his own. He might even have met his future wife while supplying > wood for burning at the bakery. I have to admit I was wrong in thinking it was Emma Lawes that married James Hussey, Emma Kersley, widow is to be found in census records from 1851 to 1891, in 1871 she has her daughter Isabel P living with her in Basingstoke, so couldn't possibly be the Emma who married in 1857. I already had the William & Letita Kearsley family in the database as I think it was their son Thomas (Tom) who married Emma Lawes (but I could just as well be wrong on this score also, so must look for a Tom Kersley to be on the safe side). I didn't have Letitia's maiden name as I hadn't found a marriage so will be interested in knowing that details please Nigel. I realised after ordering the Marriage Cert that both Emma's had a father named William! So it won't be conclusive proof after all :-( -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:11:29 +0100 Nigel St C Gerdes <nigel.gerdes@milnet.uk.net> wrote: > Hi John and list, > > To take it a bit further........ > > James Hussey b ca 1815 and his wife Emma are to be found in the 1861 > census at Fair Oak, Kingsclere where he is a Baker Master i.e. > running his own business. This ties up well with the Kingsclere > Woodlands book saying he started the business ca 1860. In the 1861 > census Emma gives a birthplace of Mapledurwell, Hants (which is just > east of Basingstoke and famous for its watercress beds.) > > John indicated a widow Emma Ke(a)sley nee Lawes in the 1861 with her > parents. Emma gives her birthplace as Basingstoke. > > Since we have two Emma's in the 1861 it looks to me as if it is > another Emma Ke(a)rsley who married James Hussey and not Emma Lawes > as a widow Ke(a)rsley. > > And I think the wife of James Hussey will prove to be Emma Kersley > born ca 1822 to William and Letitia Kersley nee Prince. Her father > was a baker and grocer and had been baptised at Mapledurwell on 12 > May 1793 with a mother Sarah Kersley who was born ca 1773. Now we can > see how James Hussey moved from being a woodman to a baker, he may > well have learnt the trade from his new father in law and then set up > on his own. He might even have met his future wife while supplying > wood for burning at the bakery. > > In the 1851 census William Kersley b ca 1793 was at Monk Sherborne > and his daughter Emma was with him. I had already realized that it will need the marriage certificate to establish for certain who Emma was. I didn't find the second Emma when looking at for Kersley in the the 1851 Census. So I will have another look. I agree with you there is no baptism for an Emma in Mapledurwell and that was one factor which stopped me looking for an Emma Kersley once I'd found the Lawes/Kersley connection. I have now ordered the marriage cert for James & Emma and hope that will sort this out once and for all. -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

Hi John and list, To take it a bit further........ James Hussey b ca 1815 and his wife Emma are to be found in the 1861 census at Fair Oak, Kingsclere where he is a Baker Master i.e. running his own business. This ties up well with the Kingsclere Woodlands book saying he started the business ca 1860. In the 1861 census Emma gives a birthplace of Mapledurwell, Hants (which is just east of Basingstoke and famous for its watercress beds.) John indicated a widow Emma Ke(a)sley nee Lawes in the 1861 with her parents. Emma gives her birthplace as Basingstoke. Since we have two Emma's in the 1861 it looks to me as if it is another Emma Ke(a)rsley who married James Hussey and not Emma Lawes as a widow Ke(a)rsley. And I think the wife of James Hussey will prove to be Emma Kersley born ca 1822 to William and Letitia Kersley nee Prince. Her father was a baker and grocer and had been baptised at Mapledurwell on 12 May 1793 with a mother Sarah Kersley who was born ca 1773. Now we can see how James Hussey moved from being a woodman to a baker, he may well have learnt the trade from his new father in law and then set up on his own. He might even have met his future wife while supplying wood for burning at the bakery. In the 1851 census William Kersley b ca 1793 was at Monk Sherborne and his daughter Emma was with him. Regards, Nigel Note: No sign of a baptism for Emma at Mapledurwell in the Hampshire Baptism Index. > Whilst looking at the Husseys in Kingsclere I decided to find out who > the wife of the James Hussey who founded Hussey's Bakery actually was. > > 'Kingsclere Woodlands Story' says James Hussey started the business at > the age of 45 in about 1960........, he married Emma (nee Kearlsey) from > Mapledurham. > > I could not find any baptism for an Emma Kersley and I think > Mapledurham is wrong for birthplace although the 1861 Census has her > born Mappeldurham. Later Census have it as Mapledurwell. > > Marriages Mar 1857: HUSSEY James & Kearsley/Kersley Emma, Southampton > 2c 7 > > So I looked for in Census records for an Emma Kearsley/Kersley and found > > 1851 Census, Eastrop Lane, Basingstoke: > William Lawes, head, M, 55, carpenter, Basingstoke > Pamela Lawes, dau, 22, dress maker, Basingstoke > Emma Kersley, dau, wid, 26, miliner, Basingstoke > Pamela Kersley, gr-dau, 1, -, Basingstoke > > the child is > Births Jun 1850: Kersley Isabel Pamela, Basingstoke 7 56 > > and this marriage/death to match the census record > > Marriages Sep 1847: KEARSLEY Tom & LAWES Emma, Basingstoke 7 95 > Deaths Dec 1849: Kersley Tom, Basingstoke 7 41 > > Now for Emma LAWES, there is a baptism entry on 18 Jul 1824 in > Basingstoke for Emma, dau of William & Hannah LAWS. > > There are other baptism entries for children of William & Hannah LAWES. > Elizabeth ca 1813, Church Oakley > Stephen ca 1817, Cliddesden > William ca 1820, Ellisfield > George ca 1822, Ellisfield > Pamela ca 1829, Basingstoke > > the birth year of last of these matches that of the 22 year old > Pamela in the 1851 Census mentioned earlier, so I think they are all > siblings of Emma. > > Ther is no marriage for William & Hannah in the Hants Marriage Index > but this marriage from the IGI fits the age of first child > > WILLIAM LAWES & HANNAH MARSHMAN, 11 JAN 1813, Thatcham, Berks > and the 1861 Census seems to confirm this > > 1861 Census, London Street, Basingstoke: > Emma Kersley, head, wid, 35, milliner & dress maker, Basingstoke > // > William Laws, head, 64, carpenter & builder, Baughurst > Ann -do-, wife, 64, -, Thatcham > // > > the date of the Hussey/Kearsley marriage meant some of the children > recorded for James Hussey in the 1861 Census were born before that > marriage. > > So who was their mother, a check in the Bapt Index showed a James with > wife Mary Anne having children in Monk Sherborne. KWS says James came > from there, and the Marriage Index has this entry: > > 24 Dec 1835, Hussey James, Spencer Mary Ann, Pamber > > 1841 Census, Monk Sherborne > James Hussey, 25, woodman, Y > Mary Hussey, 22, -, Y > George Hussey, 5, -, Y > Betsy Hussey, 3, -, Y > Mary Hussey, 1, -, Y > > The 1851 Census has wife as Mary Ann, age 32, born Monk Sherborne > > It seems likely she died as result of birth of the youngest son of > this marriage: > Births Jun 1853: Hussey John, Basingstoke 2c 144 > Deaths Jun 1853: Hussey Mary Ann, Basingstoke 2c 107 > > I don't have an email address for Gary Cusworth or Roger Dobbs (authors > of KWS) but perhaps someone could pass this info on the them for > inclusion in a possible revised edition and perhaps the living Husseys > would be interested ;-) >

Whilst looking at the Husseys in Kingsclere I decided to find out who the wife of the James Hussey who founded Hussey's Bakery actually was. 'Kingsclere Woodlands Story' says James Hussey started the business at the age of 45 in about 1960........, he married Emma (nee Kearlsey) from Mapledurham. I could not find any baptism for an Emma Kersley and I think Mapledurham is wrong for birthplace although the 1861 Census has her born Mappeldurham. Later Census have it as Mapledurwell. Marriages Mar 1857: HUSSEY James & Kearsley/Kersley Emma, Southampton 2c 7 So I looked for in Census records for an Emma Kearsley/Kersley and found 1851 Census, Eastrop Lane, Basingstoke: William Lawes, head, M, 55, carpenter, Basingstoke Pamela Lawes, dau, 22, dress maker, Basingstoke Emma Kersley, dau, wid, 26, miliner, Basingstoke Pamela Kersley, gr-dau, 1, -, Basingstoke the child is Births Jun 1850: Kersley Isabel Pamela, Basingstoke 7 56 and this marriage/death to match the census record Marriages Sep 1847: KEARSLEY Tom & LAWES Emma, Basingstoke 7 95 Deaths Dec 1849: Kersley Tom, Basingstoke 7 41 Now for Emma LAWES, there is a baptism entry on 18 Jul 1824 in Basingstoke for Emma, dau of William & Hannah LAWS. There are other baptism entries for children of William & Hannah LAWES. Elizabeth ca 1813, Church Oakley Stephen ca 1817, Cliddesden William ca 1820, Ellisfield George ca 1822, Ellisfield Pamela ca 1829, Basingstoke the birth year of last of these matches that of the 22 year old Pamela in the 1851 Census mentioned earlier, so I think they are all siblings of Emma. Ther is no marriage for William & Hannah in the Hants Marriage Index but this marriage from the IGI fits the age of first child WILLIAM LAWES & HANNAH MARSHMAN, 11 JAN 1813, Thatcham, Berks and the 1861 Census seems to confirm this 1861 Census, London Street, Basingstoke: Emma Kersley, head, wid, 35, milliner & dress maker, Basingstoke // William Laws, head, 64, carpenter & builder, Baughurst Ann -do-, wife, 64, -, Thatcham // the date of the Hussey/Kearsley marriage meant some of the children recorded for James Hussey in the 1861 Census were born before that marriage. So who was their mother, a check in the Bapt Index showed a James with wife Mary Anne having children in Monk Sherborne. KWS says James came from there, and the Marriage Index has this entry: 24 Dec 1835, Hussey James, Spencer Mary Ann, Pamber 1841 Census, Monk Sherborne James Hussey, 25, woodman, Y Mary Hussey, 22, -, Y George Hussey, 5, -, Y Betsy Hussey, 3, -, Y Mary Hussey, 1, -, Y The 1851 Census has wife as Mary Ann, age 32, born Monk Sherborne It seems likely she died as result of birth of the youngest son of this marriage: Births Jun 1853: Hussey John, Basingstoke 2c 144 Deaths Jun 1853: Hussey Mary Ann, Basingstoke 2c 107 I don't have an email address for Gary Cusworth or Roger Dobbs (authors of KWS) but perhaps someone could pass this info on the them for inclusion in a possible revised edition and perhaps the living Husseys would be interested ;-) -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

On Tue, 04 May 2010 19:59:43 -0700 "kweber@smartt.com" <kweber@smartt.com> wrote: > Charles PEARCE b 1855 @ Burghclere > married Elizabeth ELLIOTT b 1855 @ Tadley > > > > > I sent for a birth certificate for Elizabeth ELLIOTT but do not > know if I have the > right one as it says her mother is Harriet and I was expecting one > with Hannah ELLIOTT > to tie her into the Gideon ELLIOTT family. Further correspondence has confirmed that the Birth Certificate Ken obtained is for the wrong Elizabeth. It was that of Elizabeth, dau of William Elliott and Harriet Bond of Swan Street, Kingsclere. There is only one Elizabeth Elliott in FreeBMD born in Kingsclere RD 1854-1856 and none born Newbury/Reading areas. It seems likely that Elizabeth's mother was either Hannah or Jane, both daus of Gideon & Hannah Elliott. Jane was still living at home in 1861 when Elizabeth was recorded in household of Gideon & Hannah as a grand-dau age 6. I can find no trace of her after 1861 and no marriages or deaths I can identify as being hers. In 1851 Hannah was a house servant age 19 at Hannington in household of William & Sophia Webb. (William had a 17 year old son William who could be the father!) In 1861 Hannah was in Hammersmith and in 1871 she was in Taplow, Bucks, a servant in both places. I cannot find her after 1871 and like Jane no marriages or deaths. I think the only possible source of a solution to this question are the Tadley Baptism Registers. If anyone is visiting Hants RO in the near future would they take a look at Tadley baptisms around 1855 for an Elizabeth Elliott, please. -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

good morning gerald- the details on her birth certificate are : #166 born- eleventh September 1855 @ swan strreet kingsclere. elizabeth - girl father - William ELLIOTT agriculture laborer mother - Harriet ELLIOTT formerly BOND registered twenty second October 1855 Henry DALE registrar hope this helps -- ken On Sun, 9 May 2010 06:14:45 EDT, Gbsoper49@aol.com wrote: > Elizabeth Elliott daughter of William & Harriet Bond is linked to my > Elliott ancestors. Her father William was the brother of my gggfather John > > Elliott. I think she died Q3 1877 in Kingsclere RD (2c,127) aged 22. > Details of > her exact date of birth would be appreciated. > > I am afraid I cannot throw any light on the other Elizabeth Elliott, she > does not appear to be linked at all to my Kingsclere Elliott family. > > Gerald Soper

Elizabeth Elliott daughter of William & Harriet Bond is linked to my Elliott ancestors. Her father William was the brother of my gggfather John Elliott. I think she died Q3 1877 in Kingsclere RD (2c,127) aged 22. Details of her exact date of birth would be appreciated. I am afraid I cannot throw any light on the other Elizabeth Elliott, she does not appear to be linked at all to my Kingsclere Elliott family. Gerald Soper In a message dated 09/05/2010 10:05:42 GMT Daylight Time, zen57162@zen.co.uk writes: On Tue, 04 May 2010 19:59:43 -0700 "kweber@smartt.com" <kweber@smartt.com> wrote: > Charles PEARCE b 1855 @ Burghclere > married Elizabeth ELLIOTT b 1855 @ Tadley > > > > > I sent for a birth certificate for Elizabeth ELLIOTT but do not > know if I have the > right one as it says her mother is Harriet and I was expecting one > with Hannah ELLIOTT > to tie her into the Gideon ELLIOTT family. Further correspondence has confirmed that the Birth Certificate Ken obtained is for the wrong Elizabeth. It was that of Elizabeth, dau of William Elliott and Harriet Bond of Swan Street, Kingsclere. There is only one Elizabeth Elliott in FreeBMD born in Kingsclere RD 1854-1856 and none born Newbury/Reading areas. -- John Lewis Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server --------------------------------------- >From Kingsclere. ALL surnames in CAPITAL letter please. Christian name Lawrence, surname LAWRENCE. If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be unsubscribed, please email eng-hampshire-kingsclere-admin@rootsweb.com Make sure your Anti Virus Protection is updated and do a weekly backup of your files. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAMPSHIRE-KINGSCLERE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Everyone, Have your tried looking for Wills on this website. Just enter the word Kingsclere and click on search. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp Lots of interesting information for you John. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk List Admin

Hi All, Ann Hussey b ca 1758 (described below) was my 5x grandmother. I believe she married Richard Cheeseman on 14 Oct 1790 at Beenham, Berks and their daughter Elizabeth b ca 1793 and baptised 11 May 1793 at St Mary Beenham married Stephen Smith 26 Feb 1810 at Thatcham, Berks. Ann b 1758 and Martha b 1763 were sisters and the parents were John and Sarah Hussey nee Champ who married 20 July 1752 at Bradfield, Berks. They had at least four other siblings. Thank you for sharing the information given below of an additional child in 1789. I shall update my records. I would be very pleased to have further information on Fanny Hussey born ca 1790 since that is all I know about her at the moment. There is another Froud connection Elizabeth Cheeseman's brother Richard baptised 10 April 1791 at Beenham married Hannah Froud on 04 Feb 1821 at Beenham. At the moment I do not know if John and Hannah Froud were close blood relatives. Regards, Nigel Gerdes > Hello Everyone, > > This message was sent to me by Peter GOFF, as the message comes from a > non subscriber to the Kingsclere List. > regards > Barbara Lewis Mallyon > Basingstoke, Hants. UK > BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk > List Admin > > > Good afternoon Peter > > I have been enjoying your website, particularly the section related > to > my Hussey ancestor, Fanny Hussey, the daughter of Martha who was born > c1790, as the illegitimate daughter of Martha. I do not know whether > you > want more information on her, but am happy to provide it if you so > wish. > > John Lewis's work has been very informative but I do have to point > out > that it includes a couple of small related errors which he may wish > to > correct. > > By 1792, the above Martha Hussey born c 1763 (mother of William > Smallbone Hussey and Frances) was married to Edward Chandler, so John > Lewis' accreditation of a further illegitimate birth to her (John > Hussey > in 1805) is incorrect. He may have overlooked there was a second > Martha > Hussey in Beenham who was born in 1789 as the illegitimate daughter > of > Ann Hussey. It was this second Martha Hussey (not the first) that > married John Froud in 1807 and John from 1805 was her base born > child. > Probability suggests that the John born 1805 was also John Froud's > child, but as no father was on his baptism, it is impossible to say > with > any certainty whether he was a full or half brother of the other two > Froud children. > > Have tried to contact John Lewis direct to get him to discuss these > minor alterations, but none of the e-mail addresses I have seem to be > active so perhaps you could pass this on. Apart from these > corrections, > I want to discuss the connection of the Beenham Husseys with the town > of > Basingstoke, for around 1813, my Frances, a James and an Ann were all > living in Cliddesden near there. > > Roy Grant > roy.grant15@yahoo.co.uk > > --------------------------------------- > > >From Kingsclere. ALL surnames in CAPITAL letter please. Christian name > > Lawrence, surname LAWRENCE. > > If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be unsubscribed, please email > eng-hampshire-kingsclere-admin@rootsweb.com > > Make sure your Anti Virus Protection is updated and do a weekly backup of > your files. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HAMPSHIRE-KINGSCLERE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >