Hello All, The Bracknell Fair (Berkshire) is being held on Sunday 26 January at the Bracknell Sports Centre, Bagshott Road, (A322) from 10am - 5pm The South of England's largest fair up to 200 stalls. Well worth a visit. Advisable to take a packed lunch with you, they do have a cafe but usually a long queue and slow service. Regards Barbara Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants, UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk Listowner

I thought I would just let the list know that, thanks to all your help, I have made an enormous amount of progress with my research into the Tidbury family. It now appears that Mary Ann had not three but four illegitimate children and there may well be others. The four children were: 1. Ellen Jane Tidbury, born in Sydmonton in 1850. She married William BELLINGER, an agricultural fogger, in the March quarter of 1873 in the Newbury District. 2. George Napoleon Frederick William Tidbury, born on 30th May 1856 in Sydmonton. (Curiously when he was baptised the names Napoleon and Frederick were omitted.) He married Sarah JOHNSON after banns on 10th October 1881 at St John's Church, Forton, Alverstoke. 3. Mary Ann Tidbury, born between about 1858 and 1869, probably in Sydmonton. She is mentioned in the 1871 census as being a sister of Matilda Tidbury (below) who was then aged one. No further information as yet. 4. Matilda Lavinia Christiana Tidbury, born in the June quarter of 1869, probably in Sydmonton. She married Henry/Harry (Boxer) HUTCHINS on 19th April 1897 at St Paul, Woodlands. I still have no clue about the father(s) of the above children. Perhaps we never will know. I have also spoken to Barbara's friend, Betty Tidbury and sent her some information about my Tidburys. Betty's brother has done some research into the Tidbury family but as far as I can gather they are now stuck with an Elizabeth Tidbury who was an illegitimate child born in the Workhouse (in Windsor I think) around 1800. As all my early Tidburys seem to come from Berkshire (Greenham) there may well be a connection somewhere along the line. Genealogical research is indeed a very funny business. I was surprised when researching my husband's BODGER family of Bourn, Cambridgeshire, to discover that one Ann Bodger had four illegitimate daughters and never married. Now I find the same pattern in my own family! Best wishes Debbie

Hello All, Have you seen this very good offer which relates to the 1873 owners of land returns. http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/acatalog/Archive_CD_Books_Miscellaneous_121.html SPECIAL OFFER FOR ONE WEEK ONLY FROM 14th JANUARY 2003. USUALLY £39.95 +VAT. COMPLETE SET FOR THE WHOLE OF ENGLAND Price: £11.00 (£12.93 Including VAT at 17.5% on deliveries to UK addresses) Rod is a very genuine guy and does a very good job producing CDs for the genealogist and is highly recommended. Regards Barbara Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants, UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk Listowner

I know that I must have many 'cousins' of varying degrees in the Kingsclere area but I didn't expect that I could be even remotely connected to my wife's family. It goes back to my teenage years when I was a keen racing cyclist and one of my team mates was a Brian WHITMARSH. Brian was a member of a church youth club and had persuaded the youth leader to provide a set of cycling 'rollers' as a way of tempting people to join the club. 'Rollers' are like the rolling roads used for testing cars and we used to go along a couple of nights a week to train on this equipment (and to chat up the girls). I ended up going out with one of these girls for a couple of years but we drifted apart and it wasn't until quite a few years later we met up again and married. Time passed and we became interested in our family backgrounds. One of my wife's family names is Barnett and she knew only that they had a connection to Pimperne in Dorset. I think I first spotted the name Robert WHITMARSH Barnett and suggested to her that his wife was probably a Whitmarsh. Sure enough this proved to be the case and before long she had made contact with several other people researching the name and now has a number of Whitmarsh cousins and a family line going back many generations. The Barnett family proved to have come from Wiltshire and so far we have the earliest of them as farmers in a small village just to west of Wilton. During her research she had made contact with a Rodney Whale who also has Barnett among his family names. So far he has them only in the eastern part of Wiltshire so there may be no connection between the two lots of Barnett, however he also has Whitmarsh ancestors and eventually it was established that Rodney and my wife have a common 10xgt or whatever grandparent. As you know I am trying to do a 'One Place Study' for Kingsclere, so have lots of data on Kingsclere families. Some time back Rodney asked for help with his Stocker family and I have been able to help him with info on the Ecchinswell Stockers. A couple of days ago he told me that one of these, John Stocker had married, as a widower, a Lucy Parsons. You may remember me asking the list for help in tracing the Parsons as they are one of my problem families. Somehow I had missed this Stocker/Parsons marriage when looking for Parsons connections so it was with interest I had a look at the marriage entry. It turns out Lucy Parsons' parents were Peter Pasons and Sarah Foster. Sarah was a daughter of John Foster who is one of my 4xgt-grandfathers, so Lucy is a definitely a relation of mine. I am not sure what relation John Stocker is to Rodney as I don't have that bit of his tree but it looks like we are connected in some fashion. So via my Parsons/Stocker connection to Rodney and his Whale/Whitmarsh connection to my wife, I am very, very, very distantly connected to my wife. As I said genealogy is a funny thing --- John Lewis <jayellatntlworlddotcom> from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. using Debian GNU/Linux and GeneWeb genealogy software

Hi Denis & List, I can't find Wernham anywhere, but there is a Vernhams Dean in Hampshire not far from Hurstbourne Tarrant. Regards, Ian Researching: DURHAM Kempsford Glos. 1800-1900 TRINDER Kempsford Glos. 1800-1900 HOCKLEY Kingsclere Hants pre 1915 PROUT Kingsclere Hants pre 1915 GFHS: 5339

On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:36:03 +0000 Mike Hutchins wrote: > was living locally and was stated to be illegitimate (so I > don't know her mother's name or where Matilda was born). Thanks to Debbie I have re-discovered the baptism entry that gave me 'The Pineapple' as place of birth and mother's name. Matilda was baptised as an adult at St. Paul, Woodlands on 21 April 1889. Mother's name recorded as Mary Ann Tidbury and abode as Pineapple, Woodlands. Thinking about this I suspect this was Matilda's abode at time of her baptism and _not_ where she was born. So I am provisionally putting her as born before 1869 at North Sidmonton. Only a birth certificate can clarify this. (The Pineapple is a pub near Ashford Hill and probably where Matilda was working) --- John Lewis <jayellatntlworlddotcom> from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. using Debian GNU/Linux and GeneWeb genealogy software

On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:36:03 +0000 Mike Hutchins wrote: > I can't really help you but perhaps you can tell me if Matilda > Lavinia Christina TIDBURY appears in your tree? > She appears in mine as she married Harry HUTCHINS (on 19/4/1897 > at Kingsclere Woodlands). She was apparently born about 1869, > was living locally and was stated to be illegitimate (so I > don't know her mother's name or where Matilda was born). Hi Mike if Debbie doesn't have her I do ;-) or rather I have her as illegit dau of Mary Ann Tidbury and born Pineapple, Ashford Hill about 1869. For some reason I haven't recorded a baptism for her tho' I'm fairly sure I did find it. Mary Ann seems to have had 2 other illegitimate children before Matilda, Ellen Jane born Sidmonton, bapt St. Lawrence, Ecchinswell 18 Aug 1850 and George William born Sidmonton 30 May 1856, bapt St. Lawrence 17 Jul 1860. May Ann's parents are David & Phoebe, other than David probably being born at Greenham about 1785 can't tell you much more about them. May Ann had 6 siblings all recorded as born Sidmonton (probably North Sidmonton) or Greenham. --- John Lewis <jayellatntlworlddotcom> from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. using Debian GNU/Linux and GeneWeb genealogy software

Hi Debbie I can't really help you but perhaps you can tell me if Matilda Lavinia Christina TIDBURY appears in your tree? She appears in mine as she married Harry HUTCHINS (on 19/4/1897 at Kingsclere Woodlands). She was apparently born about 1869, was living locally and was stated to be illegitimate (so I don't know her mother's name or where Matilda was born). Cheers...... Mike Researching: HUTCHINS, RABBITS, GODDON, HISCOCK in North Hampshire & West Berkshire LE BRETON in Jersey, Devon & London _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Hi Rod, I would be interested to see your Stocker tree. I have a Margaret Stocker born in 1790 in Winslade, any chance she would be there? Father was William he married Margaret Munday, 1789 in Winslade and they had another daughter, that I found in the regs, Martha 1795. I don't know where he came from, I don't think he was born in Winslade. regards, Carol ----- Original Message ----- From: "clargo" <clargo@tinyworld.co.uk> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-KINGSCLERE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 7:40 PM Subject: More re. the message of 7th Jan. Re: Surnames of Butler,Watts,Lee,Savage > Hello everybody, > Just a note to say that that the Abigail Stocker mentioned by John Lewis in > his message of 7th January, is indeed on my Stocker tree I shall be only too > happy to answer any queries about it . > I also have an extensive tree regarding the Butler family of Kingsclere area > sent to me in 1997 by Nicki Carpenter and John Butler of Cumbria. > Rod Whale, Andover. > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

I have a Marriage of a Frederick BROOKS to Jane WEST at St. Johns Church, Reading, Berks. I think I have found them - on the 1881 Census as Lodgers amongst many Lodgers living in this household in Reading. Frederick is stated as born in WERNHAM, Hampshire but I cannot find this place on any of my Maps. Jane is entered as Ann BROOKS [aged 20] and born in Tadley, Hampshire. There is an entry below them that just states Lodger - she is Ellen WEST aged One year born in Kingsclere, Hampshire - was she the Base Born child of Janet alias Ann? On the Marriage Certificate it states that Jane's father was John WEST [Labourer]. I have found two John WEST's living in Tadley, both married, one aged 40 [a Hoop Maker] and the other 42 [General Labourer]. Could anyone help in establishing where WERNHAM is, was Ellen WEST Base Born to Janet and which John was her father. Tall order but any help would be appreciated. Denis

Hello everybody, Just a note to say that that the Abigail Stocker mentioned by John Lewis in his message of 7th January, is indeed on my Stocker tree I shall be only too happy to answer any queries about it . I also have an extensive tree regarding the Butler family of Kingsclere area sent to me in 1997 by Nicki Carpenter and John Butler of Cumbria. Rod Whale, Andover.

Hi Debbie, I have a very good friend, we went to school together in Guildford, Surrey, her name is Betty TIDBURY, I have just telephone her to find out where her TIDBURY family came from :- Betty's father is Frederick Charles TIDBURY, her grandfather is Frederick Charles TIDBURY, she thinks they lived in the Windor, Berks area. Grandfather had a sister who married a man his surname was EWART. Betty mentioned a Paradise Farm at Waltham St. Lawrence, Hants, she said this was a main supplier of milk in the area, she also mentioned about an illegitimate child of a servant. Off line I will give you Betty's telephone, she has not got a computer, she looks forward to hearing from you. Regards Barbara Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants, UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-KINGSCLERE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:14 PM Subject: The TIDBURYS | I've recently started to research my maternal TIDBURY line and have made very | good progress thanks to Knightroots and the very helpful people on the | Hampshire Look-up Exchange. My early Tidburys came from Greenham, Berkshire, | and they then spent quite some time in the Ecchinswell/Sydmonton area. | | My great great grandfather, George Napoleon Frederick William TIDBURY, was | born on 30th May 1856 in Sydmonton. He was one of three illegitimate children | born to Mary Ann Tidbury. George Tidbury married Sarah JOHNSON on 10th | October 1881 after banns at St John's Church, Forton, Alverstoke. Sarah was | born in Kintbury, Berkshire, the daughter of George Johnson, a labourer. | George and Sarah had six children, the eldest of whom was my great | grandfather, George Napoleon Tidbury. (Knightroots have very kindly given me | the baptism details of the children who were baptised in Forton.) George | senior served in the Royal Marines and George junior was in the Royal Navy. | | It's probably an impossible task but I would like to find out the name of | George senior's father. The space for the father's name is left blank on his | birth certificate. On his marriage certificate the father's name is given as | David Tidbury, police constable, but there was no such person in the 1881 | census - David was in fact the name of George's grandfather. I already have | the 1851 census entry for Mary Ann Tidbury which provides no clues. | | The only possibility I can think of is that there might be a clue in the Poor | Law papers if Mary Ann Tidbury's welfare at any time became the | responsibility of the parish. I've found in my local library a published | transcription of the Poor Law papers for Berkshire and wondered if a similar | volume exists for Hampshire which I could perhaps order from my library via | inter-library loan. Any suggestions would be most welcome. | | With best wishes | | Debbie Kennett | Wokingham, Berkshire | | Researching: | TIDBURY Greenham, Ecchinswell, Sydmonton, Alverstoke, London | SAUNDERS Brockenhurst and London | CRUWYS anywhere and everywhere | CRUSE, BOUNDY, SQUIRE, DILLON, SYMONS, EASTMOND North Devon | WIGGINS, RATT(E)Y London and Middlesex | WO(O)LFENDEN, BODGER, BERRYMAN, WALKER, UNDERWOOD Cambs/Hunts | KENNETT All England (any with hunting connections) | | | ============================== | To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: | http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 |

I've recently started to research my maternal TIDBURY line and have made very good progress thanks to Knightroots and the very helpful people on the Hampshire Look-up Exchange. My early Tidburys came from Greenham, Berkshire, and they then spent quite some time in the Ecchinswell/Sydmonton area. My great great grandfather, George Napoleon Frederick William TIDBURY, was born on 30th May 1856 in Sydmonton. He was one of three illegitimate children born to Mary Ann Tidbury. George Tidbury married Sarah JOHNSON on 10th October 1881 after banns at St John's Church, Forton, Alverstoke. Sarah was born in Kintbury, Berkshire, the daughter of George Johnson, a labourer. George and Sarah had six children, the eldest of whom was my great grandfather, George Napoleon Tidbury. (Knightroots have very kindly given me the baptism details of the children who were baptised in Forton.) George senior served in the Royal Marines and George junior was in the Royal Navy. It's probably an impossible task but I would like to find out the name of George senior's father. The space for the father's name is left blank on his birth certificate. On his marriage certificate the father's name is given as David Tidbury, police constable, but there was no such person in the 1881 census - David was in fact the name of George's grandfather. I already have the 1851 census entry for Mary Ann Tidbury which provides no clues. The only possibility I can think of is that there might be a clue in the Poor Law papers if Mary Ann Tidbury's welfare at any time became the responsibility of the parish. I've found in my local library a published transcription of the Poor Law papers for Berkshire and wondered if a similar volume exists for Hampshire which I could perhaps order from my library via inter-library loan. Any suggestions would be most welcome. With best wishes Debbie Kennett Wokingham, Berkshire Researching: TIDBURY Greenham, Ecchinswell, Sydmonton, Alverstoke, London SAUNDERS Brockenhurst and London CRUWYS anywhere and everywhere CRUSE, BOUNDY, SQUIRE, DILLON, SYMONS, EASTMOND North Devon WIGGINS, RATT(E)Y London and Middlesex WO(O)LFENDEN, BODGER, BERRYMAN, WALKER, UNDERWOOD Cambs/Hunts KENNETT All England (any with hunting connections)

Hello Vic I think that your grandfathers birthplace could have been Calthrop, Berkshire which is about 2 Km East of Thatcham and is now regarded as being Thatcham due to the expansion of the latter. The area is now mainly industrial buildings and warehousing Regards Peter Goff Kingsclere, Hampshire, UK www.kingsclere.org.uk All outgoing e-mails are scanned for viruses before despatch. There are no attachments to this message

forwarded by Barbara Mallyon to the list > I am a new subscriber. > Having just started to research my mother's family, I was > please to find a great site devoted to Kingclere Genealogy, as > this is where some of my great > grandparents lived. It has provided a week of interesting > reading that included the names of families that I believe were > my ancestors. > > As my family left England over seventy five years ago not much > history of the family in England has been retained Hi Vic Your email prompted me to look deeper into the Hiscock/Hitchcock/Hedgecock family (the names seem to be somewhat interchangeable) and have a bit more detail than I started with. > GRANDMOTHERS SIDE Daniel Hiscock 1835/? Born All Cannings - Wife Sarah Martin born ca 1841 Kingsclere, marriage date/place unknown at present. I have now recorded 12 children for this family including Louisa Hiscock bapt. 3 March 1859 at St. Mary, Kingsclere > Charles George Oliver 1854/? - Born Kingsclere - Family unknown I haven't found a Charles George Oliver but there is a Charles Oliver born Swan Street, Kingsclere bapt. 22 Oct 1854 to George and Sarah. George and Sarah had five more children, the last being born 2 years!! after the death of George who was buried on 3 Nov 1865 age 45. Sarah is listed at Kingclere Dell in 1881 age 60, born Overton with yougest dau Maria 16 years in household. Charles married Louisa Hiscock at St. Mary on 13 Oct 1881. witnesses were John and Maria Oliver. > May Ellen Beatrice Oliver, 2nd Child of Louisa 1898/1958 The problem arises with children as I cannot find a baptism for a May Ellen Beatrice in Kingsclere. The one child I did find was Annie Louisa HISCOCK baptised 14 May 1882 to Louisa Hiscock (afterwards wife of Charles Oliver). So it looks as tho' she was born before the marriage but not baptised till 6 months later and the parish clerk or whoever made the entry was aware of the circumstances. There is a Charles and Emily Oliver baptising 3 children in Kingsclere, Kathleen Emily in 1894, Leonie Velma in 1895 & Gladys Victoria in 1902. Cannot find a marriage for any Charles and Emily nor a death of Louisa so this is either another family or Louisa became Emily?? I cannot give any more details of George Oliver as he was not in Kingsclere for the 1851 census but as his widow was said to be born in Overton in the 1881 census it is possible he was born there also. --- John Lewis

Hello list I am hoping someone may be able to help me with some local geography. On all documentation I had seen, my grandfathers (William Charles Browning) birthplace in 1889 was always given as Thatcham, but recently I have come across two documents where he has given his birthplace as what appears to be, Calthreyn - Berkshire. I have not been able to find this village or settlement on any map. Could someone tell me if the place still exists, and where it is or was ? Regards Vic Middleton Perth Western Australia Kat3@iinet.net.au --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 1/01/03

Hello Vic & list, Could Calthreyn possibly be Colthrop, between Thatcham & Midgham. Regards, Ian

I have been trying to trace the BOOTH family who were farmers in Ecchinswell in the mid 1700s to mid 1800s and possible longer. In particular I am looking for a baptism and parents for a William Booth who married Deborah FOSTER in 1813 at St Mary, Kingsclere. Deborah is a 2xGreat Aunt of mine. I cannot find a William Booth anywhere locally but there is a William BATHE born at the right time in the right place - Ecchinswell. The Bathe family go a long way back in Ecchinswell although I have yet to find a continous line. Looking at Ecchinswell baptisms yesterday I noticed that Joseph George BATHE and his wife Lavinia baptised four children on the same day, 23 Sep 1849 and whoever entered the details in the register thoughtfully gave their dates of birth. Joseph George & Lavinia BATHE are recorded as residing at 125 Crawford? St., Portman Square, London and he is a Metal Manufacturer. The name that caught my attention was the third child, baptised as Lavinia BOOTH Bathe. William BOOTH and Deborah (FOSTER) had a dau Lavinia born Feb 1816 in Ecchinswell. The obvious conclusion is that Lavinia BOOTH had married George Joseph BATHE, but where and when? The Ecchinswell Marriage Register is still in the Parish so cannot easily check that. The first of the children was born in 1846 so I may be able to find the marriage in the CRO index so that awaits my next visit to a Records Office. The next question to be resolved is that of where William BOOTH was baptised, is he in fact William BATHE and are the two apparently different families really one and the same? Is anyone else researching these names and can give me some clues? My apologies if you see this more than once. --- John Lewis <jayellatntlworlddotcom> from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. using Debian GNU/Linux and GeneWeb genealogy software Main Family Names in HAM are: Kingsclere: BUTLER, COOPER, FISHER, FOSTER, GIRDLER, HAWKINS, SMITH Hazeley Heath: BARKER, CHANDLER, LEWINGTON, NEVILL(E) Main Family Names in GLA are: GRIFFITH, HOPKINS, JENKINS, LEWIS. MORGAN, PHILLIPS and CMN: HOPKINS, DAVIES

Hello List, Does anyone have any connection or information On my gg grandparents? George BOSHIER b around 1815 Hartley Wintney wife: Harriet MILES born 1815 Heckfield , Hampshire Thank you, Pat pbalcerzak@wzrd.com

Hello All, On Thursday the 2nd of January on our way home from Hereford where we spent the New Year, we were invited to call on Dorothy and Maurice BOWMAN, whom I have been writing to for 4 to 5 years and had never met them before. For those of you who do not know, there are 3 MILES family trees in Kingsclere and as far as I know they do not link up. If anyone has linked up any of the MILES family trees I would love to hear from you. In researching you can find that they went to each others weddings as witnesses, and lived next to each other, so I think there is a link somewhere. Dorothy has Benjamin MILES married to Sarah LEE November 1820 Hazel SILVERLOCK in Australia has William MILES married Mary WITHERS 30 October 1783 Thatcham, Berkshire. I have Joseph MILES married to Martha BRIDGMAN both born in Sydmonton, married 20 September 1780 Kingsclere. On our visit to Dorothy and Maurice I was given a copy of a very nice photo of Arthur BOWMAN b1856 married to Marian Theresa MILES of Ashford Hill. The photo was taken out side of a thatched cottage in Holly Bush Lane, Baughurst. If anyone would like a copy of this photo, please email me.. The story goes that Marian got her right foot run over by a horse and cart, it broke the bone in her foot and she could not get her shoes on, doctors were too expensive for her family. As time went by, the bone that had broke off, made its way through her foot to the outside and she was able to pull it out, after that she was able to wear her shoe again on that foot.