Hi List/Nigel For some reason I became unsubscribed from the list so just catching up on some archives posted in August With Reference to Edith Hiscock & Frances John Hutchins Firstly Daughter Mary. I believe that Mary & Louisa May are the same person as the birth dates for their children are Louisa May b 18 Feb 1895 Ethel b 16 Aug 1896 Edith Elizabeth 07 May 1898 Annie b 07 Nov 1899 Albert Charles 1904 Sep Qtr Nora Evelyn b 05 Dec 1915 chr. 14 Mar 1916 Thanks Nigel I did not have a marriage for Louisa May Barabara I will pick menu items tonight :-) Bob Hutchins Email: [email protected] Website & Genealogy Database www.bobhutchins.me.uk From: Nigel Gerdes < [email protected]> Subject: [King] SMITH links to THATCHER, IRELAND, BANBURY, HUTCHINS, SAUNDERS,BUTLER and HISCOCK at Baughurst and Kingsclere Woodlands Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:33:08 +0100 *2.* Jane/3/ Hiscock (24430) was born in 1862. She witnessed the marriage of Albert William North (24427) and Matilda Smith (24426) on 26 Jan 1882 at Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. As of 1910, Jane Hiscock (24430) lived at Haughurst Hill, Kingsclere, Hants, UK. She married Alfred James Knowles (24436) on 26 Dec 1910 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. As of 26 Dec 1910, her married name was Knowles (24430). She died in 1917 at The Hook, Kingsclere, Hants, UK. She was buried on 25 Oct 1917 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. *3.* Ann/3/ Hiscock (24431) was born circa 1865. *4.* James/3/ Hiscock (24432) was born in 1867. He died in 1886. *5.* Charles/3/ Hiscock (19207) was born circa 1873 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He married Elizabeth Kent (1546), daughter of George Kent (1541) and Olive Monger (1542), circa Jan 1898 GRO Basingtoke RD 2c 289. *a)* Rose Annie/4/ Hiscock (19208) was born circa 1900 at Kingsclere, Hants, UK. *6.* Ada E./3/ Hiscock (24433) was born circa 1874. *7.* Edith/3/ Hiscock (24434) married Francis John Hutchins (24437), son of James Hutchins (24445) and Jane Banbury (24446). Her married name was Hutchins (24434). She was born circa 1877. *a)* Mary/4/ Hutchins (24438) was born circa 1895. *b)* Louisa May/4/ Hutchins (24439) married Edward Ernest Wheeler (24444). Her married name was Wheeler (24439). She was born circa 1896. *c)* Ethel/4/ Hutchins (24440). Her married name was Butler (24440). She was born circa 1897. She married William Thomas Butler (24443) on 9 Nov 1926 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. *d)* Edith/4/ Hutchins (24441) was born circa 1899. *e)* Annie/4/ Hutchins (24442) was born circa 1900. *L.* Patience/2/ Smith (22246) was born circa 1837 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 19 Feb 1837 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She married John Thatcher (24458) circa 1858 at Whitchurch RD. As of circa 1858, her married name was Thatcher (22246). *M.* John/2/ Smith (22247) was born circa 1839 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was baptized on 19 May 1839 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of 1861, John Smith (22247) lived at General Stores, Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was Ag Lab in 1861. Printed on: 27 Aug 2007 Prepared by: Nigel Gerdes (Copyright)

Hi All This is just a test email as much as anything as I have not had a message from the list arrive in my in box for some time, and wanted to check that I am still connected to the list. Barabara, my wife and I will be attending the lunch again this year at the which I believe is at the Crown on the 7th October Bob Hutchins Email: [email protected] Website & Genealogy Database www.bobhutchins.me.uk

Hello All, For all HGS members and those of you who knew Ron HALL. It is with great sadness at the news, that the former Chairman Ron Hall has died, he had been unwell for sometime and stood down with regret from the HGS Executive Committee. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin

Hello All, If anyone has any problems with the menu, can you please contact Peter GOFF at [email protected] I forgot to mention if you want to bring a partner, they are also welcome. If it is a nice day Peter will take us for a walk around the Kingsclere, if it rains there are other plans for us. Many thanks Peter Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin

Hi Peter, Nice to hear from you, I will certainly reserve you a place at the Annual Lunch, can you please send me your menu choice off line, many thanks. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter McNulty" <[email protected]> To: "'Barbara Mallyon'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:08 PM Subject: RE: [King] Kingsclere 6th Annual Lunch Sorry Barbara, I was reading my emails back-to-front this evening. I see the date now. Please include me. Best regards Peter McNulty Researching Sparshott families world-wide. www.sparshott.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Barbara Mallyon Sent: 01 September 2007 10:38 To: [email protected] Subject: [King] Kingsclere 6th Annual Lunch Hello All, The Kingsclere 6th Annual Lunch will be held on Sunday 7th October 2007 at the Crown Inn, Kingsclere. Please let me know if you would like to attend the Lunch and your choice of Menu, look forward to seeing and meeting you there. Menu Starters all £3.95 Prawn Cocktail. Vegetable Soup and Bread Roll Pate and Melba Toast Main Course Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding, Roast Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £6.95 Roast Pork, Yorkshire Pudding if wanted, Roast Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £6.95 Salmon in Hollandaise Sauce, New Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £5.95 Cheddar and Red Onion Tartlet, French Fries and Salad £6.95 Sweets all £3.25 Strawberry Gateaux, Cream or Ice Cream Apple Betty, Cream or Ice Cream Lemon Cheese Cake Cheese and Biscuits Tea and Coffee included Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin ---------------------------------------- >From Kingsclere.If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be >unsubscribed, please contact List Admin. [email protected] ---------------------------------------- Changing your Email address, unsubscribe with your old address and Subscribe to the List with your new email address. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/983 - Release Date: 01/09/2007 16:20

Sorry Barbara, I was reading my emails back-to-front this evening. I see the date now. Please include me. Best regards Peter McNulty Researching Sparshott families world-wide. www.sparshott.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Barbara Mallyon Sent: 01 September 2007 10:38 To: [email protected] Subject: [King] Kingsclere 6th Annual Lunch Hello All, The Kingsclere 6th Annual Lunch will be held on Sunday 7th October 2007 at the Crown Inn, Kingsclere. Please let me know if you would like to attend the Lunch and your choice of Menu, look forward to seeing and meeting you there. Menu Starters all £3.95 Prawn Cocktail. Vegetable Soup and Bread Roll Pate and Melba Toast Main Course Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding, Roast Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £6.95 Roast Pork, Yorkshire Pudding if wanted, Roast Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £6.95 Salmon in Hollandaise Sauce, New Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £5.95 Cheddar and Red Onion Tartlet, French Fries and Salad £6.95 Sweets all £3.25 Strawberry Gateaux, Cream or Ice Cream Apple Betty, Cream or Ice Cream Lemon Cheese Cake Cheese and Biscuits Tea and Coffee included Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin ---------------------------------------- >From Kingsclere.If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be unsubscribed, please contact List Admin. [email protected] ---------------------------------------- Changing your Email address, unsubscribe with your old address and Subscribe to the List with your new email address. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

And the date of the luncheon is...? Best regards Peter McNulty Researching Sparshott families world-wide. www.sparshott.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Barbara Mallyon Sent: 01 September 2007 14:46 To: [email protected] Subject: [King] Kingsclere 6th Annual Lunch Hello All, We have got the Crown Inn side room all to ourselves, this room used to be the old school room, also the old Court Room. We meet at 12.30pm for 1pm Lunch, please arrive early as this gives us all time to meet each other before we sit down to eat. Bring along any documents, information that you think that may be of interest, if John Lewis is at the Lunch, he usually brings along his Lap Top computer full of his Kingsclere Family Tree details. Have a look at:- Policing Kingsclere in the 19th century with Thomas Fey Kingsclere Petty Sessions, held on Friday August 30th, 1867, before Edmund .... Kingsclere Petty Sessions Friday June 28th. 1867 Before Wm Fox. Esq. ... www.hants.gov.uk/hchs/fey.html Warning you will need plenty of time to read the above, it goes on and on, but it could be your ancestors you are reading about. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin ---------------------------------------- >From Kingsclere.If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be unsubscribed, please contact List Admin. [email protected] ---------------------------------------- Changing your Email address, unsubscribe with your old address and Subscribe to the List with your new email address. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All, We have got the Crown Inn side room all to ourselves, this room used to be the old school room, also the old Court Room. We meet at 12.30pm for 1pm Lunch, please arrive early as this gives us all time to meet each other before we sit down to eat. Bring along any documents, information that you think that may be of interest, if John Lewis is at the Lunch, he usually brings along his Lap Top computer full of his Kingsclere Family Tree details. Have a look at:- Policing Kingsclere in the 19th century with Thomas Fey Kingsclere Petty Sessions, held on Friday August 30th, 1867, before Edmund .... Kingsclere Petty Sessions Friday June 28th. 1867 Before Wm Fox. Esq. ... www.hants.gov.uk/hchs/fey.html Warning you will need plenty of time to read the above, it goes on and on, but it could be your ancestors you are reading about. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin

Hello All, The Kingsclere 6th Annual Lunch will be held on Sunday 7th October 2007 at the Crown Inn, Kingsclere. Please let me know if you would like to attend the Lunch and your choice of Menu, look forward to seeing and meeting you there. Menu Starters all £3.95 Prawn Cocktail. Vegetable Soup and Bread Roll Pate and Melba Toast Main Course Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding, Roast Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £6.95 Roast Pork, Yorkshire Pudding if wanted, Roast Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £6.95 Salmon in Hollandaise Sauce, New Potatoes and 3 Vegetables £5.95 Cheddar and Red Onion Tartlet, French Fries and Salad £6.95 Sweets all £3.25 Strawberry Gateaux, Cream or Ice Cream Apple Betty, Cream or Ice Cream Lemon Cheese Cake Cheese and Biscuits Tea and Coffee included Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK [email protected] List Admin

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 john lewis wrote: > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:33:08 +0100 Nigel Gerdes > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> married Ephraim E. Ireland, son of Jane (--?--) > > > I have an amendment to offer > > She married Ephraim Cephas Ireland who was baptised at Wootton St. > Lawrence on 31 Mar 1830 to William & Harriet. He had the following > older siblings > > Maria ca 1812 George ca 1815 Susannah ca 1816 Charlotte ca 1821 > Cephas ca 1825-1826 > > William married Harriet Dent on 18 July 1811, Wootton St. Lawrence. > He was baptised in 1788 at Monk Sherborne (the BTs have no month > or day) to William & Sarah Ireland. He had two younger siblings > > Mary ca1790 Harriet ca 1796 > > and probably older siblings as the Monk Sherborne BTs have a Sarah > Ireland marrying John Povey on 21 Oct 1811. > I misread the C as an E on the census data, Thanks for the correction and new information. The 1851 census has Ephraim and his new wife living with his mother at Baughurst. She is named as Jane and widowed. I could not find a death for his father William, so something is potentially not quite right. Still - getting nearer. Perhaps she was Harriet Jane Dent? Now we can check her age at birth with baptism and place with census data. Regards, Nigel Gerdes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG1GRUIfLUp+iRBaARAtJ5AJ9roZtHI8w16HKA0kx6Ofq6U7/mUACgkzP0 pwMqAj98e02SYmdiLVM4CDk= =S6X5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:33:08 +0100 Nigel Gerdes <[email protected]> wrote: > Below is a description of the tree of James and Charity Smith of > Baughurst and their 13 children. It provides some new links not on > the Kingsclere families website at the moment. I have just up-loaded the amended tree to the Kingsclere Families website. Nigel's Smith family is at branch 83 at http://startx.co.uk:2317/Kingsclere?m=NG&n=Smith&t=N The Irelands are also updated at branch 4 together with some other Ireland families I came across in my wanderings today. ;-) In particular that of John Sanford Ireland & Elizabeth Mayers who was born in Kingsclere ca 1774. I'll need to look for her baptism another time. http://startx.co.uk:2317/Kingsclere?m=NG&n=Ireland&t=N please let me know if there are any errors. -- John Lewis Debian (Sid) with the GeneWeb genealogy package

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:33:08 +0100 Nigel Gerdes <[email protected]> wrote: > *J.* Louisa/2/ Smith (24403) was born circa 1833 at Baughurst, > Hants, UK. She was baptized on 31 Mar 1833 at Baughurst, Hants, > UK. She witnessed the marriage of Frederick Butler (24459) and > Caroline Smith (24450) circa 1850 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She > married Ephraim E. Ireland (24467), son of Jane (--?--) (24521), on > 13 Oct 1850 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. As of 13 > Oct 1850, her married name was Ireland (24403). She died circa Mar > 1907 FreeBMD Kingsclere RD 2c 171. I have an amendment to offer She married Ephraim Cephas Ireland who was baptised at Wootton St. Lawrence on 31 Mar 1830 to William & Harriet. He had the following older siblings Maria ca 1812 George ca 1815 Susannah ca 1816 Charlotte ca 1821 Cephas ca 1825-1826 William married Harriet Dent on 18 July 1811, Wootton St. Lawrence. He was baptised in 1788 at Monk Sherborne (the BTs have no month or day) to William & Sarah Ireland. He had two younger siblings Mary ca1790 Harriet ca 1796 and probably older siblings as the Monk Sherborne BTs have a Sarah Ireland marrying John Povey on 21 Oct 1811. -- John Lewis Debian (Sid) with the GeneWeb genealogy package

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Emma Devroey wrote: > > Hooray many many Thanks Nigel :) > > > Emma, Great to be able to help, I did not expect to find so much so easily. You even know he had two wives and Sarah was his second. I would suggest you continue to discuss Franklin/Cummins on the Kingsclere list as the area covered includes the villages of Burghclere and Ecchinswell and there are lots of folk who can help because they have the PRs on microform. Even if there is family in Berkshire we have Berkshire Burial Index CDs so having to consult PRs at a record office is last resort. If your Franklin family does come from Ecchinswell, (a beautiful village in wonderful countryside) the earliest record looks to be about 1525 so you might end up with a huge tree and a lot of very interesting wills. I would guess all the many many Frankin in Basingstoke come from the Ecchinswell root. There were other Franklins in Burghclere in 1780s. Take a look at John Lewis' website and type the surname Franklin. http://startx.co.uk/Kingsclere Your info will help those with an interest in what became of Sarah Cummins as there are several Cummins researchers on the list so do tell us more if you wish. Regards, Nigel Gerdes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG1DIBIfLUp+iRBaARApXdAJwLtbBk1nxMrauZqAoSGRdsG5V4rACdF1+5 E1AZAUJvRjFlsvandLdAQvY= =I//v -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Emma Devroey wrote: > I'm looking for the Ancestors of Joshua Franklin born in > Kingsclere. He married Sarah Cummins on 18th April 1805 in > Kingsclere. They had four children Mary Ann born 1805, Sarah born > 1808, James born 1810 and William Franklin born circa 1813. They > moved to Purley before 1810 and Joshua died Jul 1828 > > Can anyone help as I live in Belgium I only have the internet for > my research. > > Thanks Emma Emma, Further to my earlier reply to the list (that may have got lost or delayed due to HTML not being converted to plain text and signed correctly) the CALM (The Hampshire Record Office on-line search) has: http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServeA/search.htm *Collection* Kingsclere Parish Council *Section* Overseers *Item* Removal orders - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *Level* Item *FindingNo* 19M76/PO5/233 *Title* Joshua Franklin, wife Sarah and daughter Mary (6 montsh) also Abraham Franklin, son of Joshua and Mary (his former wife, deceased) removed from Kingsclere to Purley, Berks *Date* 1806 so with the previous finding I sent you repeated here, *Collection* Kingsclere Parish Council *Section* Overseers *Item* Settlement examinations - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *Level* Item *FindingNo* 19M76/PO4/56 *Title* Settlement examination for Joshua Franklin of Kingsclere; born in Walford, Berks, where his father was a parishoner *Date* 1806 *Description* 23 to 24 years ago hired at Michaelmas at Ibsley Fair by John Davis, bailiff to Mrs Vince of Purley, Berks as an odd man for a year at a wage of ?3.10s.; has a wife Sarah and two children Abraham (11) by a former wife and Mary (6 months) by his present wife I think you can be confident the IGI record here is his baptism: Baptism 20 June 1762 Wickham, Berks to David and Martha Franklin and his parents seem to have married in the next village to Kingsclere. (Which is, perhaps, why he came back to the area, hoping to settle.) David Franklin = Martha Bennett at Burghclere, Hants on 27 Aug 1753 David may be the one baptised to Edward and Mary Frankline 20 July 1729 at Wickham Berks. There are lots of CALM wills for Franklin at Burghclere and Ecchinswell, so Edward may have come from the Kingsclere area where there had been a Franklin family with enought to need wills in most generations. Regards, Nigel Gerdes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG1CfkIfLUp+iRBaARAjP9AJ9G2ejbbjmHNHN46oGUi3IQC6vS1wCghACS 0GIj9m/dBG3IRlzPOGlILWk= =1o40 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I'm looking for the Ancestors of Joshua Franklin born in Kingsclere. He married Sarah Cummins on 18th April 1805 in Kingsclere. They had four children Mary Ann born 1805, Sarah born 1808, James born 1810 and William Franklin born circa 1813. They moved to Purley before 1810 and Joshua died Jul 1828 Can anyone help as I live in Belgium I only have the internet for my research. Thanks Emma

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Emma Devroey wrote: > I'm looking for the Ancestors of Joshua Franklin born in > Kingsclere. He married Sarah Cummins on 18th April 1805 in > Kingsclere. They had four children Mary Ann born 1805, Sarah born > 1808, James born 1810 and William Franklin born circa 1813. They > moved to Purley before 1810 and Joshua died Jul 1828 > > Can anyone help as I live in Belgium I only have the internet for > my research. > > Thanks Emma ---------------------------------------- >> From Kingsclere.If you get unsubscribed and did not ask to be >> unsubscribed, please contact List Admin. >> [email protected] > ---------------------------------------- Changing your Email > address, unsubscribe with your old address and Subscribe to the > List with your new email address. ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > Hi Emma, This is what you want: [ 156 ] <http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServeA/cgi-bin/CIdleTcl.exe?dsqServer=ist-iis02&dsqIni=DServe.ini&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqX=155&dsqDx=1&dsqSearch=%28%28text%29=%27franklin%27%29> 19M76/PO4/56 Settlement examination for Joshua Franklin of Kingsclere; born in Walford, Berks, where his father was a parishoner 1806 In full: *Collection* Kingsclere Parish Council *Section* Overseers *Item* Settlement examinations - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *Level* Item *FindingNo* 19M76/PO4/56 *Title* Settlement examination for Joshua Franklin of Kingsclere; born in Walford, Berks, where his father was a parishoner *Date* 1806 *Description* 23 to 24 years ago hired at Michaelmas at Ibsley Fair by John Davis, bailiff to Mrs Vince of Purley, Berks as an odd man for a year at a wage of ?3.10s.; has a wife Sarah and two children Abraham (11) by a former wife and Mary (6 months) by his present wife Not often it is that easy! http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServeA/search.htm with FRANKLIN as the search text and the finding was item 156 in the list. Regards, Nigel Gerdes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG1B7mIfLUp+iRBaARAvH+AJ4hsZzyIsrCUjocVBWvf6GXixUMVACfRVvX 7rIpoN/1CHeVRk44qhp9iTQ= =yUbd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 john lewis wrote: > > > If I am correct and John did marry again, the reference to 'John > the younger' suggests his father was also a John, neither of the > two Tadley families mentioned above would fit this idea. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Children's details snipped but clearly I have some additions to > make and possibly some 're-arrangement' of marriages. Thanks Joh for more info, it will take a while to digest. I shall be at the HRO later this week so I will pick up the Smiths from the Tadley registers. It is becoming clear that the only way to tackle the Kingsclere Smiths who are so linked with the Wolverton and Baughurst ones is to cast the net wider. On census data, HBI, and Hampshire Baptisms 1813-1841 CDs alone it is clear Richard is top name in the Tadley area. And Woodlands and Baughurst were first port of call as they expanded towards Kingsclere. By using the advanced search on ancestry.com it is possible to see how they migrated from one village to the next by comparing place of birth with place of residence for a selected name. Baughurst comes out top for the Tadley born Smiths to move into ca 1851. Latter Woodlands seems to have expanded faster than anywhere else, evidenced by the need for the church of St Paul. They also seem very keen on the name Caroline as well. Many of the Romany on settling, as they did in the heathlands of the Hants/Berks borders, used to take the name Smith, so I think we have the rapidly expanding Romany Smith population inter-mingled but only geographically with the Yeoman farming community of Smiths and Fosters and additionally many ag labs and woodmen, carpenters, gardeners and even Smith tailors over at Ecchinswell. No wonder with Romany and long established yeoman (who could outbreed due to relative prosperity and hence better diet thereby reducing infant mortality) North Hampshire has the highest density of Smith in the UK. I will check out Pamber as well because of course it is not included in the IGI. BTW: There are two Sarah Lovelocks in the area, one born ca 1780 and one born ca 1790. I think you may have at the moment the wrong one married to Warwick because the other one married to Richard Smith was still producing children in 1835 as described in 1841 census at Tadley and I doubt if she could do that at age 55. I expect Lovelock = Warwick was noted only one Sarah Lovelock had been found. There is a Sarah Warwick death in 1838 that would fit the older Sarah Lovelock very well. It also sorts out which Sarah Lovelock had a baseborn child very early in the 19th century. Lovelock at Hannington and into Tadley are much more linked than I had first thought. I am expecting Smith to come the other way from Tadley into Hannington but that is proving very difficult to build a case with evidence. The Robert Smith at Steventon in the 1851 but born at Foscot (nr Hannington but sometimes described as part of Kingsclere - aka Kingsclere in Hannington!) is the one I am investigating. The John of Steventon buried at Baughurst cries out to be checked out. There is a William Smith who later lives at Ibworth who might be a brother to Robert even John as well but no evidence found yet. Regards, Nigel Gerdes. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Cygwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG1BCfIfLUp+iRBaARAmz/AKCbBnKc7C8fuQ83ExR5j8z1uWpe+QCeKgt1 YdMqVCxwv15Btb15I2ktvNs= =+YdW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:58:42 +0100 john lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > Did John remarry? > 2 Jan 1804 John Smith the younger & Martha Paice, widow > with > Sarah bapt. 15 Jul 1804, > John 28 Dec 1806, > Harriet 5 May 1809, On further checking I realise this has to be another John as he is still alive in 1851 age 73, so born ca 1778. He is living with son John ca1806 and wife Amy in Baughurst. FreeBMD has a death for a John Smith in Mar Qtr 1853, Kingsclere RD which is likely to be him tho' no age given. He was recorded as a widower in 1841 and FreeBMD has Martha died Sep Qtr 1840. I originally had this John as the son of John & Mary Browne and born ca1781 but was doubtful about these being the right parents so have now modified this and John is now a twiglet all on his own ;-( So who are his parents?? 1851 Census has him born in Kingsclere. Martha Paice was born Martha Cripps and married John Paice at Baughurst on 24 Sep 1786. John P was buried at Baughurst on 22 Apr 1799. -- John Lewis Debian (Sid) with the GeneWeb genealogy package

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:33:08 +0100 Nigel Gerdes <[email protected]> wrote: > *I.* James/1/ Smith (19485) was born circa 1786 at Kingsclere, > Hants, UK. He married Charity Marshall (22242) on 23 Mar 1818 at > Brimpton, Berks, UK. He was Ag Lab in 1841. As of 1841, James > Smith (19485) lived at Haughurst Hill, Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of > 1851, James Smith (19485) lived at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was > Woodman in 1851. He was Ag Lab in 1861. As of 1861, James Smith > (19485) lived at General Stores, Baughurst, Hants, UK. FreeBMD has these deaths after 1861 Deaths Mar 1865: SMITH James, Kingsclere 2c 159 Deaths Dec 1865: Smith James, Kingsclere 2c1[5_]6 Deaths Mar 1870: Smith James 66, Kingsclere 2c 166 Smith James 88, Kingsclere 2c 164 Neither of the last two fit a birth date of 1786 particularly well. checking the baptism fiche again I have spotted this entry which I seem to have missed, which will be the closest baptism to a 1786 birth in my database:- Sep 1784 Jas. the son of John & Sarah Smith, labr, Comn, 23 This is the only baptism to a John & Sarah at St. Mary, as far as I can see I don't have any John & Sarah either, but IGI has 3 'member submitted' entries for John Smith about 1758 of Tadly marrying Sarah Prior at Baughurst on 10 Oct 1783. BTs for Baughurst confirm the date and brides name. At least 2 Smith families were baptising daughters in Tadley in the 1750s, Richard & Maria and William & Judith. (IGI Batch C146551 which has female baptisms only) Baptisms for John & Sarah at Baughurst are Lucy 28 Mar 1790, David 29 July 1792, Hannah & Mary 4 Jan 1795, Letty 1 Jul 1796, John 18 Jun 1797, 15 Jan 1800, Sarah wife of John Smith buried. 28 Oct 1801 John Smith buried (no age in BTs or HBI) 25 Apr 1802 John - John Smith of Steventon HBI has 26 May 1831 Smith John 74, so born ca 1757 which fits the age of the John of Tadly above. Did John remarry? 2 Jan 1804 John Smith the younger & Martha Paice, widow with Sarah bapt. 15 Jul 1804, John 28 Dec 1806, Harriet 5 May 1809, There are no entries for John & Martha of Baughurst in Hants Bap Index. If I am correct and John did marry again, the reference to 'John the younger' suggests his father was also a John, neither of the two Tadley families mentioned above would fit this idea. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Children's details snipped but clearly I have some additions to make and possibly some 're-arrangement' of marriages. Thanks Nigel -- John Lewis Debian (Sid) with the GeneWeb genealogy package

Below is a description of the tree of James and Charity Smith of Baughurst and their 13 children. It provides some new links not on the Kingsclere families website at the moment. The aim is to give hope to those who have encountered a Smith brickwall in their own trees. Since my own family is Smith it is easier working the other way. It resolves which Charlotte Smith was the mother of Matilda Smith. Witnesses at weddings gave clues. However for example the number of Joseph Smiths and uncertain dates of birth from the 1841 census means it is going to get very hard in the previous generations to resolve who is who in the Smiths. I have put copyright on to discourage commercial use of the data. For non-profit activity you are welcome to use freely so long as you acknowledge the source. The numbers in brackets can be ignored they are unique person identification local to my database. Regards, Nigel Gerdes *I.* James/1/ Smith (19485) was born circa 1786 at Kingsclere, Hants, UK. He married Charity Marshall (22242) on 23 Mar 1818 at Brimpton, Berks, UK. He was Ag Lab in 1841. As of 1841, James Smith (19485) lived at Haughurst Hill, Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of 1851, James Smith (19485) lived at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was Woodman in 1851. He was Ag Lab in 1861. As of 1861, James Smith (19485) lived at General Stores, Baughurst, Hants, UK. *A.* John/2/ Smith (24451) was born in 1819 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was baptized on 4 Jul 1819 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He died in 1833 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *B.* Thomas/2/ Smith (24452) was born circa 1821 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was baptized on 11 Mar 1821 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He married Ann Thatcher (24468) circa Mar 1844 at FreeBMD Kingsclere 7 151. As of 1851, Thomas Smith (24452) lived at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was Ag Lab in 1851. He was Ag Lab in 1861. As of 1861, Thomas Smith (24452) lived at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *1.* Jane/3/ Smith (24469) was born circa 1847 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was dumb in 1851. *2.* Elizabeth/3/ Smith (24470) was born circa 1849 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *3.* Lucy/3/ Smith (24472) was born circa 1852 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *4.* Kate/3/ Smith (24473) was born circa 1855 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *5.* Gilbert/3/ Smith (24471) was born circa 1858 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *6.* Clara/3/ Smith (24474) was born circa 1860 at 4m in 1861 cenus, Baughurst, Hants, UK. *C.* Harriet/2/ Smith (24453) was born in 1822 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 11 Aug 1822 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of circa Jun 1841, her married name was Banbury (24453). She married George Banbury (24456) circa Jun 1841 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She died in 1886. *D.* Jane/2/ Smith (24454) was born in 1824 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 29 Feb 1824 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She died in 1827. *E.* Charles/2/ Smith (24527) married Catherine (--?--) (24528). He was born circa 1825 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was baptized on 25 Dec 1825 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of 1851, Charles Smith (24527) lived at Kintbury, Berks, UK. He was Ag Lab in 1861. As of 1861, Charles Smith (24527) lived at Blewbury Road, West Ilsley, Berks, UK. *1.* Emily/3/ Smith (24529) was born circa 1852 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *2.* James/3/ Smith (24530) was born circa 1854 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *3.* Charles/3/ Smith (24531) was born circa 1856 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *4.* Ellen/3/ Smith (24532) was born circa 1860 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *F.* Mary/2/ Smith (24455) was born in 1827 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She died in 1827 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 4 Mar 1827 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *G.* Ann/2/ Smith (24449) was baptized on 23 May 1828 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was born circa 1829 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She married George Saunders (24457) circa 1849 at Kingsclere RD. As of circa 1849, her married name was Saunders (24449). *H.* Caroline/2/ Smith (24450) was born circa 1830 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 14 Feb 1830 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She married Frederick Butler (24459), son of William Butler (24462) and Charlotte Wickens (24461), circa 1850 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of circa 1850, her married name was Butler (24450). She witnessed the marriage of Ephraim E. Ireland (24467) and Louisa Smith (24403) on 13 Oct 1850 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. *1.* Hannah/3/ Butler (24460) was born circa 1850. As of 1861, Hannah Butler (24460) lived at General Shop, Baughurst, Hants, UK. *I.* James/2/ Smith (22244) was also known as James Smith (22244). He was born circa 1831 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was baptized on 11 Sep 1831 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He married Rachel Edgin(g)ton (24482) circa Jun 1855 at FreeBMD Cookham 2c 607. He was Woodman in 1861. As of 1861, James Smith (22244) lived at Woodley, Berks, UK. *1.* Thomas/3/ Smith (24483) was born circa 1857 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. *2.* James/3/ Smith (24484) was born circa 1860 at Woodley, Berks, UK. *J.* Louisa/2/ Smith (24403) was born circa 1833 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 31 Mar 1833 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She witnessed the marriage of Frederick Butler (24459) and Caroline Smith (24450) circa 1850 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She married Ephraim E. Ireland (24467), son of Jane (--?--) (24521), on 13 Oct 1850 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. As of 13 Oct 1850, her married name was Ireland (24403). She died circa Mar 1907 FreeBMD Kingsclere RD 2c 171. *1.* John/3/ Ireland (24526) was born circa 1869 at West Sherborne, Hants, UK. *2.* Jane/3/ Ireland (24524) was born circa 1871 at West Sherborne, Hants, UK. *3.* Susan/3/ Ireland (24525) was born circa 1873 at West Sherborne, Hants, UK. *4.* Antony P./3/ Ireland (24523) was born circa 1875 at West Sherborne, Hants, UK. *K.* Charlotte/2/ Smith (19482) was born circa 1835 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 1 Mar 1835 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of 1861, Charlotte Smith (19482) lived at at an unknown place. She married Walter Hiscock (19481), son of Charles Hedgecock (21862) and Jane Appleford (19484), on 31 May 1862 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. She died before 1907. *1.* Matilda/3/ Smith (24426) was born circa 1856 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. The father is most likely to be Walter Hiscock who later marries Charlotte. She was baptized on 26 Jul 1856 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of 1861, Matilda Smith (24426) lived at General Store, Baughurst, Hants, UK. She married Albert William North (24427) on 26 Jan 1882 at Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. As of 26 Jan 1882, her married name was North (24426). She died circa Mar 1889 Farnham RD, Surrey, UK. *a)* Mable/4/ North (24428) was born circa 1884. *b)* Walter W./4/ North (24429) was born circa 1888. *2.* Jane/3/ Hiscock (24430) was born in 1862. She witnessed the marriage of Albert William North (24427) and Matilda Smith (24426) on 26 Jan 1882 at Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. As of 1910, Jane Hiscock (24430) lived at Haughurst Hill, Kingsclere, Hants, UK. She married Alfred James Knowles (24436) on 26 Dec 1910 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. As of 26 Dec 1910, her married name was Knowles (24430). She died in 1917 at The Hook, Kingsclere, Hants, UK. She was buried on 25 Oct 1917 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. *3.* Ann/3/ Hiscock (24431) was born circa 1865. *4.* James/3/ Hiscock (24432) was born in 1867. He died in 1886. *5.* Charles/3/ Hiscock (19207) was born circa 1873 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He married Elizabeth Kent (1546), daughter of George Kent (1541) and Olive Monger (1542), circa Jan 1898 GRO Basingtoke RD 2c 289. *a)* Rose Annie/4/ Hiscock (19208) was born circa 1900 at Kingsclere, Hants, UK. *6.* Ada E./3/ Hiscock (24433) was born circa 1874. *7.* Edith/3/ Hiscock (24434) married Francis John Hutchins (24437), son of James Hutchins (24445) and Jane Banbury (24446). Her married name was Hutchins (24434). She was born circa 1877. *a)* Mary/4/ Hutchins (24438) was born circa 1895. *b)* Louisa May/4/ Hutchins (24439) married Edward Ernest Wheeler (24444). Her married name was Wheeler (24439). She was born circa 1896. *c)* Ethel/4/ Hutchins (24440). Her married name was Butler (24440). She was born circa 1897. She married William Thomas Butler (24443) on 9 Nov 1926 at St Paul, Kingsclere Woodlands, Hants, UK. *d)* Edith/4/ Hutchins (24441) was born circa 1899. *e)* Annie/4/ Hutchins (24442) was born circa 1900. *L.* Patience/2/ Smith (22246) was born circa 1837 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She was baptized on 19 Feb 1837 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. She married John Thatcher (24458) circa 1858 at Whitchurch RD. As of circa 1858, her married name was Thatcher (22246). *M.* John/2/ Smith (22247) was born circa 1839 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was baptized on 19 May 1839 at Baughurst, Hants, UK. As of 1861, John Smith (22247) lived at General Stores, Baughurst, Hants, UK. He was Ag Lab in 1861. Printed on: 27 Aug 2007 Prepared by: Nigel Gerdes (Copyright)