Bob, The link for the Records of Seamen is: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/default.asp The index is free and it costs £3.50 to download the actual image. But bear in mind that only 20% is currently available. The incomplete original GRO indexes can be viewed at FreeBMD and then can be supplemented from www.1837online.com, although the latter costs 10p per page to view. Alternatively. LDS family history centres have the fiche available for viewing, as do many central libraries and County Record Offices in the UK - free of course. However, the GRO indexes were created from copies of copies of the originals, with all the fallability of the indexing process. Regards Sandra bob.newell@ntlworld.com wrote: > I noticed you are referring to actual records of seaman online could > you give me the link for this registry and also link for the GRO > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" > <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> > To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:44 AM > Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: [Ham] ] A Question - divorce / Widowed > > >> Jon. >> What a complication!! >> My first action here would be to check the ship's muster rolls for >> George Parsons. You put ?? as his ship - does this mean you dont >> know the name or you cant read it in the register? From the ship's >> musters you can trace his naval career from ship to ship and it >> should tell you if he was lost at sea. Without a body, Elizabeth >> would have had to wait seven years in order to have him declared >> deceased and then be free to marry again. >> The new database on the national archives site (Register of Seamen's >> Services) is far from complete, but there is an entry for a George >> Parsons enlisting in 1824. Let me know if you cant find the database >> - it is on the documents online section of the site. >> >> You say you havent been able to trace the marriage of Elizabeth >> Parsons or Elizabeth Childs to George Aubrey/Allberry. Have you >> checked the GRO indexes rather than just FreeBMD which is far from >> complete? Also, because of the 7 year rule the marriage may well >> have taken place a lot later than you thought. Of course, it is >> possible that they never married - just set up home together. >> >> Divorce was a very rare event at this time, usually only available to >> the very wealthy by Private Members Bills in Parliament. I would >> think that divorce was not the reason for the disposal of her various >> partners! >> >> Another small point - deceased father's were not always recorded on >> the marriage certificate. It depended on whether the question was >> actually asked. The only conclusion you can draw from the marriage >> cert is that the father is dead if recorded as deceased, any other >> scenario, he could be either living or deceased. >> >> I'd be very interested to know if you ever sort this one out. It is >> possibly one of the most complicated scenarios I have heard of in 40 >> years of genealogical research!! >> Regards >> Sandra >> >> J P NIXEY wrote: >> >>> thanks to everyone who replied on this subject. >>> >>> I've thought about it some more and there could be another reason >>> why she >>> called herself widowed. >>> >>> I'll paint the picture as I'm currently aware of it. I'll just use >>> the year >>> rather than exact dates for ease. >>> >>> In 1825, George Parsons who was aboard HMS ?? married Elizabeth >>> childs at St >>> Marys, Portsea. so far, I have only been able to find 2 children, >>> Elizabeth >>> b1832/d1832, and Sarah Jane b1835, both girls born in fareham. >>> In 1843, Elizabeth had another daughter, Rhoda, the father being George >>> Allberry and Elizabeth's surname was Parsons on Rhoda's birth >>> certificate. >>> rhoda was chr with the surname Aubrey. >>> Elizabeth had a son James in 1846, surname spelled as Aldbury, and >>> this time >>> Elizabeth's surname matched George's. James was chr with the surname >>> Aubrey. >>> So it would appear that George and Elizabeth were married between >>> 1843 and >>> 1846, although there's not a sign of a marriage anywhere. Neither is >>> there a >>> sign of George Parsons' death, could he have been lost at sea, presumed >>> dead? Did Elizabeth simply take on George's surname as she couldn't >>> marry >>> him because she couldn't prove her husband was dead? >>> In 1847 another son is born, Henry, surname spelled Aubery, and he >>> was to >>> become my wife's great grandfather. >>> In 1851 the family name appears as Allbray on the census for >>> Fareham, and >>> George is alive and well working as a labourer. >>> In 1858 Henry was chr at St Johns, Forton, gosport with the surname >>> Albury. >>> his father George is recorded as a labourer from Fareham, with no >>> mention of >>> him being deceased. There appears to be almost a year's discrpancy with >>> regards Henry's date of birth, the chr details saying Dec 4 1848, >>> and Dec 17 >>> 1847 on his birth certificate. >>> In 1861 Elizabeth shows up at Gosport with the surname of williams, >>> and she >>> is recorded as a widow. All 3 children, Rhoda, James and Henry also >>> have the >>> Williams surname. >>> there is no record yet found of a marriage between an Elizabeth >>> Childs/Parsons/Albray (or variant) and someone by the name of Williams, >>> although on her death certificate in 1887, Elizabeth is recorded as the >>> widow of the late Genge Williams. I can't find any trace on him either! >>> In 1868 Rhoda married henry Hawkins, and her father is recorded as >>> George >>> Albray, again no mention of him being deceased. >>> In 1871 Henry married Charlotte Harvey, and this is the first time that >>> George albray is recorded as deceased. From 1843 through to 1858, >>> george was >>> always recorded as a labourer, but on Henry's marriage certificate >>> he was >>> recorded as a seaman. >>> I've thought about the possiblity of George Parsons and George >>> albray being >>> the same person, and even maybe Genge Williams, but, if that is the >>> case, >>> why would Rhoda's birth certificate have her parents as George >>> Allberry and >>> Elizabeth Parsons? >>> Did george albray just disappear off the scene between 1858 and >>> 1861, and >>> Elizabeth decide to change her surname for some reason, and if so >>> who on >>> earth is Genge Williams? did the widow comment refer to George >>> Parsons, not >>> george albray? >>> So many questions, and yet, so far, not a single answer. >>> >>> If anyone has picked up any possible senarios after reading this, >>> I'd love >>> to hear from them, before I totally lose my mind! lol >>> >>> Kind regards to everyone, >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ============================== >> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

Thanks Sandra I can now have a look see Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: [Ham] ] A Question - divorce / Widowed > Bob, > > The link for the Records of Seamen is: > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/default.asp > The index is free and it costs £3.50 to download the actual image. But > bear in mind that only 20% is currently available. > The incomplete original GRO indexes can be viewed at FreeBMD and then can > be supplemented from www.1837online.com, although the latter costs 10p per > page to view. Alternatively. LDS family history centres have the fiche > available for viewing, as do many central libraries and County Record > Offices in the UK - free of course. However, the GRO indexes were created > from copies of copies of the originals, with all the fallability of the > indexing process. > Regards > Sandra > bob.newell@ntlworld.com wrote: > >> I noticed you are referring to actual records of seaman online could you >> give me the link for this registry and also link for the GRO >> >> Bob >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" >> <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> >> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:44 AM >> Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: [Ham] ] A Question - divorce / Widowed >> >> >>> Jon. >>> What a complication!! >>> My first action here would be to check the ship's muster rolls for >>> George Parsons. You put ?? as his ship - does this mean you dont know >>> the name or you cant read it in the register? From the ship's musters >>> you can trace his naval career from ship to ship and it should tell you >>> if he was lost at sea. Without a body, Elizabeth would have had to wait >>> seven years in order to have him declared deceased and then be free to >>> marry again. >>> The new database on the national archives site (Register of Seamen's >>> Services) is far from complete, but there is an entry for a George >>> Parsons enlisting in 1824. Let me know if you cant find the database - >>> it is on the documents online section of the site. >>> >>> You say you havent been able to trace the marriage of Elizabeth Parsons >>> or Elizabeth Childs to George Aubrey/Allberry. Have you checked the GRO >>> indexes rather than just FreeBMD which is far from complete? Also, >>> because of the 7 year rule the marriage may well have taken place a lot >>> later than you thought. Of course, it is possible that they never >>> married - just set up home together. >>> >>> Divorce was a very rare event at this time, usually only available to >>> the very wealthy by Private Members Bills in Parliament. I would think >>> that divorce was not the reason for the disposal of her various >>> partners! >>> >>> Another small point - deceased father's were not always recorded on the >>> marriage certificate. It depended on whether the question was actually >>> asked. The only conclusion you can draw from the marriage cert is that >>> the father is dead if recorded as deceased, any other scenario, he could >>> be either living or deceased. >>> >>> I'd be very interested to know if you ever sort this one out. It is >>> possibly one of the most complicated scenarios I have heard of in 40 >>> years of genealogical research!! >>> Regards >>> Sandra >>> >>> J P NIXEY wrote: >>> >>>> thanks to everyone who replied on this subject. >>>> >>>> I've thought about it some more and there could be another reason why >>>> she >>>> called herself widowed. >>>> >>>> I'll paint the picture as I'm currently aware of it. I'll just use the >>>> year >>>> rather than exact dates for ease. >>>> >>>> In 1825, George Parsons who was aboard HMS ?? married Elizabeth childs >>>> at St >>>> Marys, Portsea. so far, I have only been able to find 2 children, >>>> Elizabeth >>>> b1832/d1832, and Sarah Jane b1835, both girls born in fareham. >>>> In 1843, Elizabeth had another daughter, Rhoda, the father being George >>>> Allberry and Elizabeth's surname was Parsons on Rhoda's birth >>>> certificate. >>>> rhoda was chr with the surname Aubrey. >>>> Elizabeth had a son James in 1846, surname spelled as Aldbury, and this >>>> time >>>> Elizabeth's surname matched George's. James was chr with the surname >>>> Aubrey. >>>> So it would appear that George and Elizabeth were married between 1843 >>>> and >>>> 1846, although there's not a sign of a marriage anywhere. Neither is >>>> there a >>>> sign of George Parsons' death, could he have been lost at sea, presumed >>>> dead? Did Elizabeth simply take on George's surname as she couldn't >>>> marry >>>> him because she couldn't prove her husband was dead? >>>> In 1847 another son is born, Henry, surname spelled Aubery, and he was >>>> to >>>> become my wife's great grandfather. >>>> In 1851 the family name appears as Allbray on the census for Fareham, >>>> and >>>> George is alive and well working as a labourer. >>>> In 1858 Henry was chr at St Johns, Forton, gosport with the surname >>>> Albury. >>>> his father George is recorded as a labourer from Fareham, with no >>>> mention of >>>> him being deceased. There appears to be almost a year's discrpancy with >>>> regards Henry's date of birth, the chr details saying Dec 4 1848, and >>>> Dec 17 >>>> 1847 on his birth certificate. >>>> In 1861 Elizabeth shows up at Gosport with the surname of williams, and >>>> she >>>> is recorded as a widow. All 3 children, Rhoda, James and Henry also >>>> have the >>>> Williams surname. >>>> there is no record yet found of a marriage between an Elizabeth >>>> Childs/Parsons/Albray (or variant) and someone by the name of Williams, >>>> although on her death certificate in 1887, Elizabeth is recorded as the >>>> widow of the late Genge Williams. I can't find any trace on him either! >>>> In 1868 Rhoda married henry Hawkins, and her father is recorded as >>>> George >>>> Albray, again no mention of him being deceased. >>>> In 1871 Henry married Charlotte Harvey, and this is the first time that >>>> George albray is recorded as deceased. From 1843 through to 1858, >>>> george was >>>> always recorded as a labourer, but on Henry's marriage certificate he >>>> was >>>> recorded as a seaman. >>>> I've thought about the possiblity of George Parsons and George albray >>>> being >>>> the same person, and even maybe Genge Williams, but, if that is the >>>> case, >>>> why would Rhoda's birth certificate have her parents as George Allberry >>>> and >>>> Elizabeth Parsons? >>>> Did george albray just disappear off the scene between 1858 and 1861, >>>> and >>>> Elizabeth decide to change her surname for some reason, and if so who >>>> on >>>> earth is Genge Williams? did the widow comment refer to George Parsons, >>>> not >>>> george albray? >>>> So many questions, and yet, so far, not a single answer. >>>> >>>> If anyone has picked up any possible senarios after reading this, I'd >>>> love >>>> to hear from them, before I totally lose my mind! lol >>>> >>>> Kind regards to everyone, >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ============================== >>> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >>> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >>> >> >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> >> >> > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >