Jon. What a complication!! My first action here would be to check the ship's muster rolls for George Parsons. You put ?? as his ship - does this mean you dont know the name or you cant read it in the register? From the ship's musters you can trace his naval career from ship to ship and it should tell you if he was lost at sea. Without a body, Elizabeth would have had to wait seven years in order to have him declared deceased and then be free to marry again. The new database on the national archives site (Register of Seamen's Services) is far from complete, but there is an entry for a George Parsons enlisting in 1824. Let me know if you cant find the database - it is on the documents online section of the site. You say you havent been able to trace the marriage of Elizabeth Parsons or Elizabeth Childs to George Aubrey/Allberry. Have you checked the GRO indexes rather than just FreeBMD which is far from complete? Also, because of the 7 year rule the marriage may well have taken place a lot later than you thought. Of course, it is possible that they never married - just set up home together. Divorce was a very rare event at this time, usually only available to the very wealthy by Private Members Bills in Parliament. I would think that divorce was not the reason for the disposal of her various partners! Another small point - deceased father's were not always recorded on the marriage certificate. It depended on whether the question was actually asked. The only conclusion you can draw from the marriage cert is that the father is dead if recorded as deceased, any other scenario, he could be either living or deceased. I'd be very interested to know if you ever sort this one out. It is possibly one of the most complicated scenarios I have heard of in 40 years of genealogical research!! Regards Sandra J P NIXEY wrote: >thanks to everyone who replied on this subject. > >I've thought about it some more and there could be another reason why she >called herself widowed. > >I'll paint the picture as I'm currently aware of it. I'll just use the year >rather than exact dates for ease. > >In 1825, George Parsons who was aboard HMS ?? married Elizabeth childs at St >Marys, Portsea. so far, I have only been able to find 2 children, Elizabeth >b1832/d1832, and Sarah Jane b1835, both girls born in fareham. >In 1843, Elizabeth had another daughter, Rhoda, the father being George >Allberry and Elizabeth's surname was Parsons on Rhoda's birth certificate. >rhoda was chr with the surname Aubrey. >Elizabeth had a son James in 1846, surname spelled as Aldbury, and this time >Elizabeth's surname matched George's. James was chr with the surname Aubrey. >So it would appear that George and Elizabeth were married between 1843 and >1846, although there's not a sign of a marriage anywhere. Neither is there a >sign of George Parsons' death, could he have been lost at sea, presumed >dead? Did Elizabeth simply take on George's surname as she couldn't marry >him because she couldn't prove her husband was dead? >In 1847 another son is born, Henry, surname spelled Aubery, and he was to >become my wife's great grandfather. >In 1851 the family name appears as Allbray on the census for Fareham, and >George is alive and well working as a labourer. >In 1858 Henry was chr at St Johns, Forton, gosport with the surname Albury. >his father George is recorded as a labourer from Fareham, with no mention of >him being deceased. There appears to be almost a year's discrpancy with >regards Henry's date of birth, the chr details saying Dec 4 1848, and Dec 17 >1847 on his birth certificate. >In 1861 Elizabeth shows up at Gosport with the surname of williams, and she >is recorded as a widow. All 3 children, Rhoda, James and Henry also have the >Williams surname. >there is no record yet found of a marriage between an Elizabeth >Childs/Parsons/Albray (or variant) and someone by the name of Williams, >although on her death certificate in 1887, Elizabeth is recorded as the >widow of the late Genge Williams. I can't find any trace on him either! >In 1868 Rhoda married henry Hawkins, and her father is recorded as George >Albray, again no mention of him being deceased. >In 1871 Henry married Charlotte Harvey, and this is the first time that >George albray is recorded as deceased. From 1843 through to 1858, george was >always recorded as a labourer, but on Henry's marriage certificate he was >recorded as a seaman. >I've thought about the possiblity of George Parsons and George albray being >the same person, and even maybe Genge Williams, but, if that is the case, >why would Rhoda's birth certificate have her parents as George Allberry and >Elizabeth Parsons? >Did george albray just disappear off the scene between 1858 and 1861, and >Elizabeth decide to change her surname for some reason, and if so who on >earth is Genge Williams? did the widow comment refer to George Parsons, not >george albray? >So many questions, and yet, so far, not a single answer. > >If anyone has picked up any possible senarios after reading this, I'd love >to hear from them, before I totally lose my mind! lol > >Kind regards to everyone, > >Jon > > > > >

I noticed you are referring to actual records of seaman online could you give me the link for this registry and also link for the GRO Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: [Ham] ] A Question - divorce / Widowed > Jon. > What a complication!! > My first action here would be to check the ship's muster rolls for George > Parsons. You put ?? as his ship - does this mean you dont know the name > or you cant read it in the register? From the ship's musters you can > trace his naval career from ship to ship and it should tell you if he was > lost at sea. Without a body, Elizabeth would have had to wait seven years > in order to have him declared deceased and then be free to marry again. > The new database on the national archives site (Register of Seamen's > Services) is far from complete, but there is an entry for a George Parsons > enlisting in 1824. Let me know if you cant find the database - it is on > the documents online section of the site. > > You say you havent been able to trace the marriage of Elizabeth Parsons or > Elizabeth Childs to George Aubrey/Allberry. Have you checked the GRO > indexes rather than just FreeBMD which is far from complete? Also, > because of the 7 year rule the marriage may well have taken place a lot > later than you thought. Of course, it is possible that they never > married - just set up home together. > > Divorce was a very rare event at this time, usually only available to the > very wealthy by Private Members Bills in Parliament. I would think that > divorce was not the reason for the disposal of her various partners! > > Another small point - deceased father's were not always recorded on the > marriage certificate. It depended on whether the question was actually > asked. The only conclusion you can draw from the marriage cert is that > the father is dead if recorded as deceased, any other scenario, he could > be either living or deceased. > > I'd be very interested to know if you ever sort this one out. It is > possibly one of the most complicated scenarios I have heard of in 40 years > of genealogical research!! > Regards > Sandra > > J P NIXEY wrote: > >>thanks to everyone who replied on this subject. >> >>I've thought about it some more and there could be another reason why she >>called herself widowed. >> >>I'll paint the picture as I'm currently aware of it. I'll just use the >>year >>rather than exact dates for ease. >> >>In 1825, George Parsons who was aboard HMS ?? married Elizabeth childs at >>St >>Marys, Portsea. so far, I have only been able to find 2 children, >>Elizabeth >>b1832/d1832, and Sarah Jane b1835, both girls born in fareham. >>In 1843, Elizabeth had another daughter, Rhoda, the father being George >>Allberry and Elizabeth's surname was Parsons on Rhoda's birth certificate. >>rhoda was chr with the surname Aubrey. >>Elizabeth had a son James in 1846, surname spelled as Aldbury, and this >>time >>Elizabeth's surname matched George's. James was chr with the surname >>Aubrey. >>So it would appear that George and Elizabeth were married between 1843 and >>1846, although there's not a sign of a marriage anywhere. Neither is there >>a >>sign of George Parsons' death, could he have been lost at sea, presumed >>dead? Did Elizabeth simply take on George's surname as she couldn't marry >>him because she couldn't prove her husband was dead? >>In 1847 another son is born, Henry, surname spelled Aubery, and he was to >>become my wife's great grandfather. >>In 1851 the family name appears as Allbray on the census for Fareham, and >>George is alive and well working as a labourer. >>In 1858 Henry was chr at St Johns, Forton, gosport with the surname >>Albury. >>his father George is recorded as a labourer from Fareham, with no mention >>of >>him being deceased. There appears to be almost a year's discrpancy with >>regards Henry's date of birth, the chr details saying Dec 4 1848, and Dec >>17 >>1847 on his birth certificate. >>In 1861 Elizabeth shows up at Gosport with the surname of williams, and >>she >>is recorded as a widow. All 3 children, Rhoda, James and Henry also have >>the >>Williams surname. >>there is no record yet found of a marriage between an Elizabeth >>Childs/Parsons/Albray (or variant) and someone by the name of Williams, >>although on her death certificate in 1887, Elizabeth is recorded as the >>widow of the late Genge Williams. I can't find any trace on him either! >>In 1868 Rhoda married henry Hawkins, and her father is recorded as George >>Albray, again no mention of him being deceased. >>In 1871 Henry married Charlotte Harvey, and this is the first time that >>George albray is recorded as deceased. From 1843 through to 1858, george >>was >>always recorded as a labourer, but on Henry's marriage certificate he was >>recorded as a seaman. >>I've thought about the possiblity of George Parsons and George albray >>being >>the same person, and even maybe Genge Williams, but, if that is the case, >>why would Rhoda's birth certificate have her parents as George Allberry >>and >>Elizabeth Parsons? >>Did george albray just disappear off the scene between 1858 and 1861, and >>Elizabeth decide to change her surname for some reason, and if so who on >>earth is Genge Williams? did the widow comment refer to George Parsons, >>not >>george albray? >>So many questions, and yet, so far, not a single answer. >> >>If anyone has picked up any possible senarios after reading this, I'd love >>to hear from them, before I totally lose my mind! lol >> >>Kind regards to everyone, >> >>Jon >> >> >> >> > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: [Ham] ] A Question - divorce / Widowed You said: "What a complication!!" Hi Sandra, you're telling me!! lol "You put ?? as his ship - does this mean you dont know > the name or you cant read it in the register?" Tony and Linda Knight very kindly sent me the entry for their marriage from the parish records in May 1825, and they obviously couldn't read which vessel he was with at that time. Being totally blind, I don't stand an earthly's in seeing it any better? lol "The new database on the national archives site (Register of Seamen's Services) is far from complete, but there is an entry for a George Parsons enlisting in 1824." That sounds a good possiblity, I must say. Are these records digital images or transcriptions? Transcriptions are within reach of my text reader, sadly digital images aren't. "You say you havent been able to trace the marriage of Elizabeth Parsons or Elizabeth Childs to George Aubrey/Allberry. Have you checked the GRO indexes rather than just FreeBMD which is far from complete?" I haven't personally checked myself due to the digital image problem again, but a friend in Southampton did search 1837online for me, but there was no index even remotely close to being them. I am keeping my "eyes" open on Free BMD though, just in case. "because of the 7 year rule the marriage may well have taken place a lot later than you thought. Of course, it is possible that they never married - just set up home together." I must say the latter of these two suggestions seems far more likely at the moment? On James and Henry's birth certificates though, Elizabeth's details are clearly written down as Elizabeth Aldbury (or Aubery) late Parsons formerly childs. That's almost like a legal declaration that she is married to George, but, as you know, nothing is apparent to prove that. "The only conclusion you can draw from the marriage cert is that the father is dead if recorded as deceased" Yes, so from henry's marriage cert, I at least know that the very latest George was alive was 1871. However, with Elizabeth changing her surname to Williams in 1861 for whichever reason, out of choice or another marriage, I'm pretty certain I'm looking prior to 1861, and possibly after Henry's baptism in 1858. "> I'd be very interested to know if you ever sort this one out. It is possibly one of the most complicated scenarios I have heard of in 40 years of genealogical research!!" Believe me Sandra, when or if this lot gets sorted, the whole wide world will know! lol thanks for your reply and very helpful suggestions, it's all very much appreciated! Kindest regards, Jon -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/77 - Release Date: 8/18/05