No, I guess I can't say for certain, but the father and mother were married in 1895, their first child born in 1896, he was born next in 1898, another sister in 1900, a brother in 1903 and another sister in 1906. Father was stationed at Newhaven Fort at the time of his birth. Family was there with him. On the 1901 census, he is referred to as a son. I have no reason to think that there was any possibility he was not his father. I know that he (my grandfather) was with him in Gibralter because he said to members of my family that he learned to swim in Gibralter (he was an olympic level swimmer or water polo player and that is how he met my grandmother). Mandy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: Information on marriage certificate > Mandy, > Usually, if a father's name is missing from a marriage certificate it > usually means the father is unknown, in other words the child was > illegitimate or born out of wedlock. You say you "know" he was raised by > his father until at least 14 years of age. How certain are you that he > was actually his father? I have seen a number of instances where a child > was labelled "son" in the census returns, but was actually a son of the > wife - could this be the case here? > Regards > Sandra > > Mandy Fenyvesi wrote: > >> what would you make of him being missing althogether? I know my fellow >> was raised by his father until he was atleast 14 years of age. His >> family stayed together through a tour in Gibralter. The returned to >> Southsea Hants and retired there in 1911. But when the son got married >> in 1924, there is no father on the marriage certificate. does that sound >> more like estranged than deceased? >> >> Mandy >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" >> <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> >> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: Information on marriage certificate >> >> >>> Dorothy. >>> The father was only entered as deceased if the parties concerned were >>> asked the question. If they werent asked then if the father was >>> deceased would not be shown as such. The only thing you can be certain >>> of is that if it states deceased then he should be dead. If it doesn't >>> state deceased then the father could be either alive or dead. >>> Regards >>> Sandra >>> >>> Dorothy Spence wrote: >>> >>>> I would like to find out if on a marriage certificate it would ALWAYS >>>> say deceased if the father of either bride or groom were dead. I do >>>> have one that says that but I am wondering about another where I think >>>> a father might not be around any more. >>>> >>>> I would appreciate any input from SKS. >>>> >>>> Dorothy, Calgary, Canada >>>> >>>> ============================== >>>> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >>>> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >>>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ============================== >>> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >>> New content added every business day. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: >>> 8/23/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: 8/23/2005 > >

Hi Mandy It certainly appears from the evidence you have that the father on his birth certificate (I presume you have this?) and in the 1901 census was really his. You said you knew he was "raised by his father until he was at least 14 years of age", which begs a question or two. Why not his mother as well? What is the source of this piece of info, oral history? He would have been 14 in 1912. Wasn't on the Titanic was he? ! I also take it you have not found the father's death anywhere, but how hard have you looked? If the father was genuine, his absence from the marriage certificate does indeed suggest a family break-up. "I have no father" sort of thing. Any evidence or hint of the usual cause, like drunkenness, philandering, wanderlust, etc.? Cheers, Dave Jacobs ================ At 04:28 25/08/2005, you wrote: >No, I guess I can't say for certain, but the father and mother were >married in 1895, their first child born in 1896, he was born next in 1898, >another sister in 1900, a brother in 1903 and another sister in >1906. Father was stationed at Newhaven Fort at the time of his >birth. Family was there with him. On the 1901 census, he is referred to >as a son. > >I have no reason to think that there was any possibility he was not his >father. I know that he (my grandfather) was with him in Gibralter because >he said to members of my family that he learned to swim in Gibralter (he >was an olympic level swimmer or water polo player and that is how he met >my grandmother). > > > > >Mandy. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> >To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:17 PM >Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: Information on marriage certificate > > >>Mandy, >>Usually, if a father's name is missing from a marriage certificate it >>usually means the father is unknown, in other words the child was >>illegitimate or born out of wedlock. You say you "know" he was raised by >>his father until at least 14 years of age. How certain are you that he >>was actually his father? I have seen a number of instances where a child >>was labelled "son" in the census returns, but was actually a son of the >>wife - could this be the case here? >>Regards >>Sandra >> >>Mandy Fenyvesi wrote: >> >>>what would you make of him being missing althogether? I know my fellow >>>was raised by his father until he was atleast 14 years of age. His >>>family stayed together through a tour in Gibralter. The returned to >>>Southsea Hants and retired there in 1911. But when the son got married >>>in 1924, there is no father on the marriage certificate. does that >>>sound more like estranged than deceased? >>> >>>Mandy >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> >>>To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:53 PM >>>Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Re: Information on marriage certificate >>> >>> >>>>Dorothy. >>>>The father was only entered as deceased if the parties concerned were >>>>asked the question. If they werent asked then if the father was >>>>deceased would not be shown as such. The only thing you can be certain >>>>of is that if it states deceased then he should be dead. If it doesn't >>>>state deceased then the father could be either alive or dead. >>>>Regards >>>>Sandra >>>> >>>>Dorothy Spence wrote: >>>> >>>>>I would like to find out if on a marriage certificate it would ALWAYS >>>>>say deceased if the father of either bride or groom were dead. I do >>>>>have one that says that but I am wondering about another where I think >>>>>a father might not be around any more. >>>>> >>>>>I would appreciate any input from SKS. >>>>> >>>>>Dorothy, Calgary, Canada >>>>> >>>>>============================== >>>>>View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >>>>>marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >>>>>http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>============================== >>>>Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >>>>New content added every business day. Learn more: >>>>http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: 8/23/2005 >>>> >>> >>> >>>============================== >>>Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>>last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >>>http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >>> >>> >> >> >>============================== >>Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >>http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: 8/23/2005 >> > > >============================== >View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > " Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910) Fashion is something barbarous, for it produces innovation without reason and imitation without benefit. -George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)