Thank you Charani and those who gave some information. That part of the tree may become a dead end for a while, but atleast on the husbands side I can still work on. I have another question, but this is not regarding a birth. Mary's husband, Stephen James HOLMES worked at a Gun Powder Factory in Bartley, or around there in the late 1800s. Is it still there? This information came from the birth certificate of their son, Albert William HOLMES. Also, I would like to know if there are any HOLMES descendants of John and Kitty (SPRATT) HOLMES, Stephen and Elizabeth (WINKWORTH) HOLMES still living in the Hampshire areas of Titchfield, Bartley, Minstead, Lyndhurst, Bramshaw? Thanks again, Jace -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charani Sent: Friday, 23 March 2007 8:23 a.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Birth Certificate Jason Holmes wrote: > Hello all. I was asking a while ago about Mary Ann SPRATT. I have now > received her birth certificate, but now stuck with it. I mean, her mother > is listed, but no father and no father occupation. As many of you > mentioned, it appeared that she may be illegitimate and I think this proves > it. However, is there a way to ever find out who the father is? I have > located the marriage certificate and have ordered that today, but don't know > what British certificates have on them. I was thinking that Harriet Jane > SPRATT (mother of Mary Ann) had Mary with her 'boyfriend' Henry Smith before > they got married. However, it dawned on me that she could have got together > with anyone before she married Henry. Is there a way to find her real > father? You have very little chance of finding out who the father was unless there's a bastardy order, ie Harriet sought maintenance from the father for the child. The man Harriet married may or may not have been the father of her child but err on the side that he wasn't even if the child took his name. All an *English/Welsh* certificates will have on it is the name of the parties concerned, their ages (if you're lucky, if not, it'll just say "full age", occupation of the groom, addresses for both parties, the fathers' names and occupation. You'll also get the witnesses. And that is it. (Scottish certificates have a lot more information on them.) Things to be aware of are (1) that full age is supposed to mean 21 and over, but most people have at least one example in their trees where one or both supposedly full age parties were actually underage. (2) An illegitimate child can, and often did, invent a father for the sake of appearances, who was deceased. (3) Just because a father is not shown as deceased doesn't mean he was actually still alive. Conversely a deceased father (if not invented) might actually still be living. You'll find this site useful for what is and is not on English/Welsh certificates: http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm -- Charani (UK) ............................................. Want to contact the local community? Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk ............................................. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message