On surfing the net this morning found one of my ancestors mentioned in a lovely site telling about the church St Michael and All Angels Sopley. It read "The stained glass window is to the memory of Mary Anne Paris who, in 1867 at the age of only 19, was drowned in the Avon Run at Mudeford." Could someone supply me with an address to write to the church at Sopley to see if any living members of that family attend, as from time to time I send a few letters from addresses in the phone book, but to date have had no success. Thanking you in advance for any help received. Bette from Bribie Island Australia

Thanks Bette That is our website Southern Life(UK) http://southernlife.org.uk We try and cover all the villages in Hampshire and its surrounding counties, so far around 1,900 and still growing! But Hampshire Genealogy Society have an update (2004) on their pages for 2 fiche covering areas including Sopley http://www.hgs-online.org.uk/updated_pages.htm I tried http://findachurch.co.uk and it has it listed but no details, I also did a search on Google, I think it comes under hte parish of Bransgore as could find not homepage to it or contacts. Chris Southern Life(UK) http://southernlife.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bette" <bettew@hotkey.net.au> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 12:21 AM Subject: [ENG-HANTS] ST.MICHAEL AND ALL ANGELS - > On surfing the net this morning found one of my ancestors mentioned in a > lovely site telling about the church St Michael and All Angels Sopley. > It read > "The stained glass window is to the memory of Mary Anne Paris who, in 1867 > at the age of only 19, was drowned in the Avon Run at Mudeford." > > Could someone supply me with an address to write to the church at Sopley > to see if any living members of that family attend, as from time to time I > send a few letters from addresses in the phone book, but to date have had > no success. > Thanking you in advance for any help received. > > Bette from Bribie Island Australia > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

1851 Census H107 1480 page 708 6 York Street, St Margaret Westminster, London John NORTHOVER, Servant, unmarried, age 48, born Southampton Thomas ROUT, Visitor, unmarried, age 35, Servant, born Andover, Hants 1851 Census H107 1480 page 710 9 York Street, St Margaret Westminster, London William BROWES, age 29, General Dealer, born Suffolk Eliza BROWES, wife, age 40, General Dealer, born Isle of Wight Linda Tasmania, Australia

In a message dated 28/08/2005 01:00:48 GMT Standard Time, chris@chayles.freeserve.co.uk writes: But Hampshire Genealogy Society have an update (2004) on their pages for 2 fiche covering areas including Sopley http://www.hgs-online.org.uk/updated_pages.htm I tried http://findachurch.co.uk and it has it listed but no details, I also did a search on Google, I think it comes under hte parish of Bransgore as could find not homepage to it or contacts. Hi all Just to be pedantic, the Society is the Hampshire Genealogical Society (not Genealogy). Turning to Sopley, the parish lies to the north of Christchurch and the church was granted to the priory of Christchurch in appx 1140. It is very picturesque overlooking the River Avon which runs close by. According to the VCH, registers commenced in 1678. Over the door is a stone figure of St Michael and on either side of the door are stone carvings of a Squire and wife believed to be the church founders. It is a small parish - in 1801, the population was just 840 but had reduced to 791 by 1901. Hope this helps Tony Knight Publicity Officer HGS

1851 Census H107 1480 page 668 9 and a Half Broadway, St Margaret Westminster, London George WEBB, age 24, Smith, born Southampton Caroline WEBB, wife, age 24, born Lambeth, Surrey Mary Ann WEBB, dau, age 3, born Westminster Linda Tasmania, Australia

1851 Census H107 1480 page 611 12 Castle Court, St Margaret Westminster, London James BRADLEY, Head, unmarried, age 35, Horse Nosebag Maker, born Ireland Mary McCARTHY, Sister, married, age 33, Assistant Nosebag Maker, born Ireland Dennis McCARTHY, Brother-in-law, married, age 30, Labourer, born Isle of Wight 1851 Census H107 1480 page 622 13 Little Chapel Street, St Margaret Westminster, London Jane BYE, Servant, age 15, born Sherborne, Hants 1851 Census H107 1480 page 664 2 Broadway, St Margaret Westminster, London Ann EDWARDS, Servant, age 17, born Romsey, Hants Linda Tasmania, Australia

Hello All Looking for the baptisms of two daughters of Benjamin & Sarah READ, Ruth born abt 1831 married Richard LONGLAND 1856 at Milford. Fanny a minor when she married George West in 1850 at Pennington. I have already checked the fiche for Milford, Milton & Pennington I would appreciate any help or suggestions as to where I could look. Also looking for a marriage in Portsmouth Sep Q 1905 of Frederick James Liebermann & Elizabeth Harriet ???. Would also like to contact anyone researching these names. Thank you. Patricia researching: READ, WARE, FLIGHT, STRICKLAND, WEST, LONGLAND, LIEBERMANN, WARWICK in Pennington, Milford, Milton and Lymington area.

1851 Census H107 1480 page 593 8 Great Chapel Street South Side, St Margaret Westminster, London Edward ROBERTS, age 41, Butcher, born St Pancras, Middlesex Margaret ROBERTS, wife, age 31, born St Pancras, Middlesex Mary Anne RUTHERFORD, Niece, age 8, born St Margaret Westminster George LIGHT, Father, widower, age 75, born Winchester, Hampshire Linda Tasmania, Australia

Robert's mother had three illegitimate children by three different fathers. She then married a Presbyterian Missionary! It is possible that Robert never knew his father. He may have been told that he was dead. Alan McGowan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> Hi Alan, Not come across this before, but you are the 2nd person on the list who has this in their family tree. Could the reason be family estrangement? Perhaps a long separation and the bride or groom believing they must be dead? I can't think of any other reason, can you? Sandra > Alan McGowan wrote: > When my great-grandfather Robert McGowan married in > Edinburgh in 1896, the entry stated that his father was deceased. > His father was not deceased; he died in 1903. > >Alan McGowan

In a message dated 26/08/2005 15:27:38 GMT Standard Time, rottimum@platinum.ca writes: I had not realized that civil registration was not mandatory until 1875 It was mandatory from 1837 BUT there was no penalty for non compliance until 1875 Linda & Tony

Hi Dorothy, Many thanks, but I have a copy of the 1861 thru 1901 census, its the 1851 census that I need, as the father, John who would, I believe, be still alive then. At the time of all the others he was already dead. I'm hoping that it will show a different location for his birth than just "Leicester". I might then be able to make some progress in tracing, at least him, further back. They must have been very violently opposed to Civil Registration, as the only civil records, apart from the census, one daughter's wedding, and some deaths, which of course were mandatory, they would not register any births. Apparently, registration of births were only made mandatory after 1875. They also seem to not have been C of E, as there are no records of christenings. Very unusual. Where abouts are you in our great country? Regards, Dave in Quebec.

I am searching for a Michael Baker born about 1828 at Hartley Wintney. I believe he married Eliza Duffy who gave birth to a Walter Duffy at the House of Industry IOW in 1852. The birth certificate shows no father but the HOI records show a Michael Baker to be the father. The 1881 census shows a Michael and Eliza Baker and several children living at Black Bush, Eveltham. If someone has access to the 1851-1871 censuses could they please look up these individuals. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Brenda Wangaratta - Australia

Hi List Wrong answers in official documents seem to me to fall into three classes: 1: Really not knowing the right answer, and guessing - wrongly. 2: Deliberate deception, for a variety of reasons. 3: My favourite, the inadvertent error or cock-up theory. May result from mishearing or misunderstanding the question. "Is your father no longer with us?" may seem a perfectly clear question to the euphemistic official, but not to the addressee whose father left the family home some years ago. Cheers, Dave Jacobs ================ At 23:36 25/08/2005, you wrote: >Hi Alan, >Not come across this before, but you are the 2nd person on the list who >has this in their family tree. Could the reason be family >estrangement? Perhaps a long separation and the bride or groom believing >they must be dead? I can't think of any other reason, can you? >Sandra > >Alan McGowan wrote: > >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>The father was only entered as deceased if the parties concerned were >>>> >>asked the question. If they werent asked then if the father was >>deceased would not be shown as such. The only thing you can be certain >>of is that if it states deceased then he should be dead. >> >> >> >>****** >>Not that certain. When my great-grandfather Robert McGowan married in >>Edinburgh in 1896, the entry stated that his father was deceased. His >>father was not deceased; he died in 1903. >> >>Alan McGowan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>============================== >>View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >>marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >>http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> > > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > " Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910) Fashion is something barbarous, for it produces innovation without reason and imitation without benefit. -George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)

I think this probably more common than we realise. My parents married in 1932 and my father stated his father was dead. Infact my mother thought both his parents were dead. It wasn't until about six years ago when I started doing my family history I discovered his father hadn't died until 1959 - his mother left her husband and kids in 1918, no one knows what happened to her. Dad left behind his father and siblings in 1922 and never saw them again. So ten years later I guess it was just easier to say they were both deceased. Dad died in 1988 and mum never did know the truth until I found it some ten years later. Rather sad, but as you said estrangement, embarrassment etc. can make people say things that aren't necessarily true. On a happier note I was able to find and meet dad's sister who at that time was still alive, and I've met various cousins for the first time. All who were amazed at my existence! Linda At 23:36 25/08/2005, you wrote: >Hi Alan, >Not come across this before, but you are the 2nd person on the list who >has this in their family tree. Could the reason be family >estrangement?

Not really sure Dave as sent from Canada!! But thought the words were great!! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Jacobs" <dave@jacobs.net> To: <ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Epitaphs > At 12:15 25/08/2005, you wrote: >>Found on a tombstone. > > > > A REALLY BIG tombstone, apparently! > > Dave J > ===============================

Hi Alan, Not come across this before, but you are the 2nd person on the list who has this in their family tree. Could the reason be family estrangement? Perhaps a long separation and the bride or groom believing they must be dead? I can't think of any other reason, can you? Sandra Alan McGowan wrote: >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> >>> >>> > > > >>>The father was only entered as deceased if the parties concerned were >>> >>> >asked the question. If they werent asked then if the father was >deceased would not be shown as such. The only thing you can be certain >of is that if it states deceased then he should be dead. > > > >****** >Not that certain. When my great-grandfather Robert McGowan married in >Edinburgh in 1896, the entry stated that his father was deceased. His >father was not deceased; he died in 1903. > >Alan McGowan > > > > > > > >============================== >View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > >

>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sandra J Smith" <sandra.s@ntlworld.com> >> The father was only entered as deceased if the parties concerned were asked the question. If they werent asked then if the father was deceased would not be shown as such. The only thing you can be certain of is that if it states deceased then he should be dead. >> ****** Not that certain. When my great-grandfather Robert McGowan married in Edinburgh in 1896, the entry stated that his father was deceased. His father was not deceased; he died in 1903. Alan McGowan

Thanks to Alan McGowan , David Jacobs, Sandra Smith and Chris for the information abot burial registers. Magdalen

Hello Listers, Like others, I found out that what's on a marriage or on a birth certificate is not always correct - or as in my case, it may be only partly correct. My Example: My GG grandfather Thomas Briggs 24yrs married Maria Richards 22yrs in 8 May 1854 (Sheerness) His son Thomas.F.R.Briggs was born 8 April 1855. The baby's birth certificate states Father = Thomas Briggs. That is true. I knew Thomas (Snr) had died young before the 1861 census. Going by the information on his son's birth certificate I spent a couple of years searching for his death between the years 1855 (Sons birth) to 1861 (wife a widow on census) - to no avail. Finally I gave in and sent money for a death certificate search. It came back within 3 weeks showing that Thomas (Snr) had in fact not been alive when his son was born. He died 9 Aug 1854, 3 months to the day of his marriage to Maria. He died of "purpura"(haemorrhage)...........I don't know what type of haemorrhage(ie.brain,lung,skin or from an accident). If only the birth certificate had stated father=Thomas Briggs (deceased) it would have saved me a lot of time and anguish looking for his death records. Once I found this death record I was quite upset for some time...that he had died so young, leaving his new wife pregnant and alone. Luckily she had good family around her but Maria did not re-marry until 1885 and died in 1907. Their son Thomas .F.R. Brggs married, had 5 children, became a master Tailor, and died young aged 48yrs of Apoplexy. He died at 41 Fratton Road, Landport. A few years later one of his sons,Charles (my grandfather) came to Australia. God luck with your research. Ann in Australia explorer@smartchat.net.au .

At 12:15 25/08/2005, you wrote: >Found on a tombstone. A REALLY BIG tombstone, apparently! Dave J =============================== >Chris > >If with pleasure you are viewing, >Any work a man is doing, >If you love him or respect him, >Tell him now. >Don't withhold your approbation, >Till the Parson's last oration, >And he lies at rest, >With lillies on his brow. >For no matter how you shout it, >He won't really care about it, >Nor will he see the teardrops, >You have shed. >If a little praise is due him, >Now's the time to slip it to him, >For he cannot read his tombstone, >When he's dead. > > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > " Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910) Fashion is something barbarous, for it produces innovation without reason and imitation without benefit. -George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)