Is it possible that Sarah is Amy's mother or sister? If so she may have later adopted Lydia as her own daughter. I have seen examples of illegitimate grandchildren being shown as daughters of the head of household on censuses. Regards, Lynda ----- Original Message ----- > I realise that this probably isn’t the right list as this is a question > about interpreting a birth certificate, but it’s related to a Hampshire > birth and I’m hoping that someone might be able to either help me or point > me in the right direction. > > According to the 1881 and 1891 censuses, Lydia is the daughter of John > Madagascar and Sarah Quinn. However, the birth certificate tells me > otherwise. I can’t attach it as an image so I’ve transcribed the columns > below. > > 1879 birth in the sub-district of Southampton in the County of the same Town > 1 Where and when born – 4th January 1879, 52 Northam Street > 2 Name – Lydia > 3 Sex – Girl > 4 Name and surname of father – [Nathaniel Quinn - crossed out] (8) > 5 Name, surname and maiden name of mother – Amy Quinn [formerly – crossed > out] (9) a Tailoress > 6 occupation of father – blank > 7 Signature, description and residence of informant – Sarah Quinn present at > the birth 52 Northam Street, Southampton > > The words ‘Eight M’ and ‘Nine M’ are written to the left of the first > column. I've never seen this before and haven't got a clue what it means. > Presumably they relate to the bracketed 8 and 9 in columns 4 and 5. > > My first thought was that a mistake had been made on the certificate for > another birth - can they void a line in the register or does every line > number have to be accounted for and used? > > Alternatively, could Amy have changed her mind about putting a father's name > on the certificate for any reason? I'm not aware as yet of any male Quinn > relatives with the name Nathaniel. Could Amy have given a boyfriend's name > as if they were married? Her eventual husband's name is Albert James > Haysom. > > Sorry - loads of queries and possibilities! > > Grateful for anyone's help and advice. > > > Jo

Hi David, Thanks for the speedy reply. A few more variations to follow up! Liz In einer eMail vom 04.03.2007 15:30:15 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt [email protected]: Hi Liz, SPUREL, Thomas, 'Norwich Deeds' II 1314 SPURWILL, James, 'Protestation Returns for Devon' 1642 SPURRELL, James, 'Hearth Tax Returns for York' 1672 Name believed to originate in Spirewell, Wembury, Dorset; or Spurells Cross, Ugborough, Devon (latter comes from Spurwell). Regards, David

Hello everyone, Has anyone come across the name SPURRELL in their research? I am still coming in sideways trying to sort out my DIMMERs. Elizabeth SPURRELL, born Devon ca 1810 married David DORRELL Sept 1834 at St Thoms', Portsea. Her sister Caroline born ca 1815 in Devon, married Wm DIMMER 21 Jul 1831 at St Mary's Portsea. I believe thier father was Joseph SPURRELL who was born in Hampshire. He was with Elizabeth and David in 1841, entered as independent. As his daughters were born in Devon (Plymouth or Stonehouse) he was probably a navy man. Best wishes, Liz in Munich

I realise that this probably isn’t the right list as this is a question about interpreting a birth certificate, but it’s related to a Hampshire birth and I’m hoping that someone might be able to either help me or point me in the right direction. According to the 1881 and 1891 censuses, Lydia is the daughter of John Madagascar and Sarah Quinn. However, the birth certificate tells me otherwise. I can’t attach it as an image so I’ve transcribed the columns below. 1879 birth in the sub-district of Southampton in the County of the same Town 1 Where and when born – 4th January 1879, 52 Northam Street 2 Name – Lydia 3 Sex – Girl 4 Name and surname of father – [Nathaniel Quinn - crossed out] (8) 5 Name, surname and maiden name of mother – Amy Quinn [formerly – crossed out] (9) a Tailoress 6 occupation of father – blank 7 Signature, description and residence of informant – Sarah Quinn present at the birth 52 Northam Street, Southampton The words ‘Eight M’ and ‘Nine M’ are written to the left of the first column. I've never seen this before and haven't got a clue what it means. Presumably they relate to the bracketed 8 and 9 in columns 4 and 5. My first thought was that a mistake had been made on the certificate for another birth - can they void a line in the register or does every line number have to be accounted for and used? Alternatively, could Amy have changed her mind about putting a father's name on the certificate for any reason? I'm not aware as yet of any male Quinn relatives with the name Nathaniel. Could Amy have given a boyfriend's name as if they were married? Her eventual husband's name is Albert James Haysom. Sorry - loads of queries and possibilities! Grateful for anyone's help and advice. Jo Take a look at my family history: www.users.waitrose.com/~jonewman -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.6/709 - Release Date: 03/03/2007 08:12 BullGuard Anti-virus has scanned this e-mail and found it clean. Try BullGuard for free: www.bullguard.com

In a message dated 04/03/2007 08:55:43 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: My first thought was that a mistake had been made on the certificate for another birth - can they void a line in the register or does every line number have to be accounted for and used? Alternatively, could Amy have changed her mind about putting a father's name on the certificate for any reason? I'm not aware as yet of any male Quinn relatives with the name Nathaniel. Could Amy have given a boyfriend's name as if they were married? Her eventual husband's name is Albert James Haysom. Jo, Since Amy was still unmarried in 1881, I would say that all the evidence points to Amy being the mother, her mother Sarah being the informant was, I guess, trying to cover up the fact that Amy was unmarried. By that time, the father of an illegitimate child had to be present at the registration to be included on the certificate, hence the crossing out. The eight M and nine M would relate to the alterations the Registrar made, any alteration had to be noted. Jennifer

ravdav wrote: > I've never come across something like this, could it mean a death > abroad perhaps? I'm baffled. A death abroad woould be listed in the Overseas Death Indices, not the normal death indices. -- Charani (UK)

----- Original Message ----- From: "ravdav" <[email protected]> > You are such a knowledgeable bunch, can you please help me with this one? > "OGWR" as a placename in the registration of a death. GRO Index 1975 > March Qtr I have: > > Dorey, Frederick George d.o.b. 26 Jan 1913 OGWR Vol.27 Pg 0997 Dear Rosemary, Ogwr is a registration district in Glamorgan, Wales. It is based around the town of Bridgend I believe but will include all the surrounding villages etc. best wishes Paul

Hello Everyone, You are such a knowledgeable bunch, can you please help me with this one? "OGWR" as a placename in the registration of a death. GRO Index 1975 March Qtr I have: Dorey, Frederick George d.o.b. 26 Jan 1913 OGWR Vol.27 Pg 0997 I've never come across something like this, could it mean a death abroad perhaps? I'm baffled. Many thanks Rosemary

Rosemary. OGWR is Mid Glamorgan. You can look it up on Free BMD. Jennifer

Jo A little more reading last night confirmed that the company that ran the ferries to the Island was actually referred to as "The Joint Railway Company", so I think it is almost certain that your ancestor was a fireman (or a stoker) on the ferries. I know that it is possible to find out information about railway workers for some companies, but not sure whether this would cover the maritime branches, or where you would start for the Joint Company (i.e. would the records have been held by the LSWR or the LBSCR). The Joint Railway operated the railway lines from Portsmouth & Southsea station to Portsmouth Harbour and also from Ryde Pier Head to Ryde St Johns Road on the Island, so it was a "natural" extension to exploit these lines by providing the link as well. The ships he may have worked on were the Victoria, Duchess of Edinburgh, Duchess of Connaught, Duchess of Albany and from 1893 the Princess Margaret. He may have also been employed on the Stokes Bay to Ryde ferry which was also operated by the JRC. Your ancestor may have also been employed on the screw driven steam tugs that were used to transport goods (vehicles, livestock etc) and which were the precursor of the car ferries, these had the less romantic names, Number 1, Number 2 etc :-) There are many books about the Island Railways that contain some information on the ferries as well, since the two were inextricably linked. Hope this helps. Jon Baker Jo wrote: I don't suppose I will ever find out for which of the joint railway companies he was working at the time unless, of course, anybody out there in genealogy land knows any different!

Jo The most likely explanation, given that he was living in Portsmouth in 1891, was that he was a fireman on the (steam) paddle steamers that ran from Portsmouth to the Isle of Wight, operated by the London & South Western and London Brighton & South Coast Railway Companies (LSWR & LBSCR), the assets of which would have been in a joint stock company I would think. The word "packet" is the clue that this is a shipping organization. This joint railway company was merged into the Southern Railway in 1923. Jon Baker After a lot of searching I've just found someone I've been looking for on the 1891 census (the surname has been transcribed incorrectly which is why I haven't found him before now). He was living in Portsea, Hampshire. He is noted as being employed as a Fireman (Joint Railway Packet Coy). The word 'Seas' has been written above the word 'Fireman' in a different hand. A quick Google search has turned up zilch on this company, as has a quick look at the companies list at the online search at Companies House. Does anyone have any ideas or can point me in the direction of the correct Rootsweb list? I have also sent this request to the Mariners list, just in case . Jo

G'day Sandra SNLR indicates Services No Longer Required, probab;y appled to him as a sailor who could have been considered a 'troublemaker'. He might not have done anything necessarily 'bad' but might have stood up for his rights, few as they were. Naval discipline in the Victorian and Edwardian era was still harsh and any lower deck sailor who overstepped the mark could expect little understanding or leniency. Hope this helps Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia Surname Interests in Hampshire: Denny; Churchman http://www.LostCousins.com/?ref=LC894461 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra J Smith Sent: Friday, 2 March 2007 6:19 AM To: ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L Subject: [ENG-HANTS] SNLR? Any Royal Navy buffs out there who could help with this? My great Uncle Ernest PICKETT was discharged from the Royal Navy in 1908 and the reason given is S.N.L.R. It mentions a confidential memo although this doesn't appear in the record. Looking at his record he would appear to have been in various "wrongdoings" with several periods of jail sentences prior to the discharge. So what was S.N.L.R.? As an aside on this, finding his service papers answers a very long-standing conundrum. We have often wondered how my Nan, Ernest Pickett's Southampton born sister, met her future husband, who came from Buckinghamshire and joined the RN in Birkenhead in 1904. He obviously ended up in Portsmouth and he and Ernest Pickett served on the same ship HMS Firequeen at the same time. We now believe that Ernest took his mate Harry home for a weekend where he obviously took a shine to Ernest's sister....and the rest is history! Regards Sandra ............................................. Want to contact the local community? Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk ............................................. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear All I'm on digest mode so please forgive the one response! What Chris says about my ancestor working on a steamship makes sense. He was in the Royal Navy for 23 years, pensioned off in 1874. On the 1881 census his occupation is 'Fireman on a steamship'. I had always assumed that he was in the Merchant Navy but, I guess with his advancing years, he would have been working closer to home. I don't suppose I will ever find out for which of the joint railway companies he was working at the time unless, of course, anybody out there in genealogy land knows any different! My thanks also to Brad and Linda & Tony for replying. I have saved all of this information for future use. Best wishes Jo -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 01/03/2007 14:43 BullGuard Anti-virus has scanned this e-mail and found it clean. Try BullGuard for free: www.bullguard.com

(S)ervices (N)o (L)onger (R)equired ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra J Smith" <[email protected]> To: "ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:19 AM Subject: [ENG-HANTS] SNLR? > Any Royal Navy buffs out there who could help with this? > > My great Uncle Ernest PICKETT was discharged from the Royal Navy in 1908 > and the reason given is S.N.L.R. It mentions a confidential memo > although this doesn't appear in the record. Looking at his record he > would appear to have been in various "wrongdoings" with several periods > of jail sentences prior to the discharge. > So what was S.N.L.R.? >

Thank you to all who replied to this request. Obvious now!!! Regards Sandra john selfe wrote: >(S)ervices (N)o (L)onger (R)equired > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sandra J Smith" <[email protected]> >To: "ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L" <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:19 AM >Subject: [ENG-HANTS] SNLR? > > > > >>Any Royal Navy buffs out there who could help with this? >> >>My great Uncle Ernest PICKETT was discharged from the Royal Navy in 1908 >>and the reason given is S.N.L.R. It mentions a confidential memo >>although this doesn't appear in the record. Looking at his record he >>would appear to have been in various "wrongdoings" with several periods >>of jail sentences prior to the discharge. >>So what was S.N.L.R.? >> >> >> > >............................................. >Want to contact the local community? >Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings >http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk >............................................. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Windows Vista Some of you may be purchasing a new computer system with Windows Vista or upgrading your current one. Please remember most current programs (software and data CDs that require an install) weren't written for Windows Vista. Some may work in a 'legacy' mode some may not. Adobe Reader (latest version) should work on Windows Vista so you should not have problems with data CDs that contain pdfs. You may need to download the latest version though. This is a free download from adobe's website. Chris

Jo You say above the word Fireman someone has written 'Seas' this could mean he was a stoker or a fireman at sea maybe a ferry or sea going vessel Chris "Jo" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jo, > He is noted as being employed as a Fireman (Joint Railway Packet > Coy). The word 'Seas' has been written above the word 'Fireman' in a > different hand. A quick Google search has turned up zilch on this > company, as has a quick look at the companies list at the online > search at Companies House. I suspect it's not a company name, but a description of a company that operated rail & packet steamers. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" The public gets what the public wants Going Underground - The Jam

Lists of parishes and periods in the BVRI for each county of England, Scotland, and Wales can be downloaded from http://genoot.com/downloads/BVRI2/ Alan McGowan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete and Pam Codlin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:31 PM Subject: [ENG-HANTS] Vital Records 2nd edition Could someone please tell me the parishes covered in Hampshire on the Vital Records 2nd Edition or is there a website which will tell me the details? Many thanks from Pam (New Zealand).

Yes it is Service No Longer Required The confidential memo is probably referring to this and it would not necessarily be included with his personal record but kept in the record office itself depending on why he was dishonourably discharged for, as this is normally what S N L R normally refers to. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Prince" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] SNLR? hi sandra, not a navy expert but could it be service no longer required dawn tad >From: Sandra J Smith <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: ENG-HAMPSHIRE-L <[email protected]> >Subject: [ENG-HANTS] SNLR? >Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:19:01 +0000 > >Any Royal Navy buffs out there who could help with this? > >My great Uncle Ernest PICKETT was discharged from the Royal Navy in 1908 >and the reason given is S.N.L.R. It mentions a confidential memo >although this doesn't appear in the record. Looking at his record he >would appear to have been in various "wrongdoings" with several periods >of jail sentences prior to the discharge. >So what was S.N.L.R.? > >As an aside on this, finding his service papers answers a very >long-standing conundrum. We have often wondered how my Nan, Ernest >Pickett's Southampton born sister, met her future husband, who came from >Buckinghamshire and joined the RN in Birkenhead in 1904. He obviously >ended up in Portsmouth and he and Ernest Pickett served on the same ship >HMS Firequeen at the same time. We now believe that Ernest took his >mate Harry home for a weekend where he obviously took a shine to >Ernest's sister....and the rest is history! >Regards >Sandra > > >............................................. >Want to contact the local community? >Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings >http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk >............................................. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 ............................................. Want to contact the local community? Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk ............................................. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000719-0, 02/28/2007 Tested on: 3/1/2007 11:13:05 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com

A Joint Railway Company was the result of two railway companies amalgamating or two railway companies jointly operating together. There were quite a lot of these all over the Country - eg Somerset & Dorset, Midland & Great Northern. See http://www.answers.com/topic/joint-railway for more info. Linda & Tony -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad Rogers Sent: 01 March 2007 21:51 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Joint Railway Packet Company On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:31:05 -0000 "Jo" <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jo, > He is noted as being employed as a Fireman (Joint Railway Packet > Coy). The word 'Seas' has been written above the word 'Fireman' in a > different hand. A quick Google search has turned up zilch on this > company, as has a quick look at the companies list at the online > search at Companies House. I suspect it's not a company name, but a description of a company that operated rail & packet steamers. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" The public gets what the public wants Going Underground - The Jam ............................................. Want to contact the local community? Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk ............................................. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message