Hi Francis, I just wonder if Wassen is a variation on Wasson (name appearing in London 1881-1998) - which is from Old Northern French Wace, so possibly unconnected. There are no Wosens or Wossens in this year's Southampton/Winchester 'phone book, nor in Leicester University's library of commercial directories 1760-1920. There was a family of Wossens in Wiltshire 1898 (and a Wossencraft). 1 family of Wosens lived in Pennsylvania in 1920 (and 1 of Wossen in next-door New York State) - but the names can have separate Ethiopian and Middle Eastern origins so these are maybe irrelevant. Regards, David

The Hants RO CALM database has these two removal orders. Any idea how someone could be removed twice ? Perhaps they successfully appealed the first one. Any thoughts welcome. Francis Auckland, NZ 56M83/PO27/47 Removal order to Milton: John Adams, wife Mary, 4 children 1753 from Hilton, Dorset 56M83/PO27/48 Removal order to Milton: John Adams, wife Mary, 5 children 1759 from Hilton, Dorset

Francis Payne wrote: > Thanks for that. So I presume the family just went back hoping nobody would > notice ! Quite possibly or they hoped they'd be able to get work that would allow them to remain. > Would you think that given twice sent back to Milton, that that was > their original source? Or more correctly, the husband's origin at least ? Yes.

Francis Payne wrote: > For instance my 3g-grandparents marriage at Christchurch has: > > "John LANE m Elizabeth WOSSEN on 24 April 1808, John of Chch, she a > sojourner" > > This WOSSEN name has got me puzzled. There is a Betty WOSEN who had > a base-born daughter in Milton in 1802. Is nearby Milton far enough > away for someone to be called a sojourner ? Yes. As you know, sojourner just means someone who was temporarily resident in a place other than that in which they had residency. At that time it didn't matter if the place was 100 miles away or a quarter of a mile away, especially if that short distance put them across a parish boundary and thus another parish's responsibility if the sojourner should become a charge on the parish of temporary residence.

Francis Payne wrote: > A few queries: > > How were they able to come back - did they need permission or just went > anyway ? They just went. If they needed permission, it wouldn't have been granted because they'd already been removed once. > How were removal orders physically enforced if people didn't want to go ? The family were put in a cart along with their possessions such as they might have been and taken back to their own parish. It didn't matter if they didn't want to go. There was a legal court order for their removal. End of subject. If a family was a charge on the parish, then the overseers would have paid their rent, paid for fuel for cooking and heating, paid for the clothes on their backs, bedding, repairs to or new shoes and given them an allowance for food, plus paid for any medical care necessary. Over a year that could amount to a lot of money and the overseers only had a limited amount to disperse, just what they could raise from anyone liable for poor rates. Therefore they wouldn't want to pay for a family who had become a charge to the parish if that family didn't belong to them. A family could stay if their parish of origin was willing to pay for them and sent the money to the parish where the family was resident. If the parish of origin wasn't willing to do that, then out the family went. > Were people removed to their original parish ? Yes. Families who were not from their parish of residence were examined before magistrates and any claims were checked. It could be quite a costly business so it wouldn't have been undertaken lightly. I have seen one instance where the head of a family was temporarily out of work and his parish of residence supported him even though he was not from that parish. The head of the family was only in receipt of parish relief for a couple of months before finding work again. Sometimes the overseers would employ someone who would otherwise be on parish relief. Reading the poor laws books gives a very good insight into what life was like in a village. You'll find that the parish relief scheme was not so very far removed from our modern unemployment scheme. In some ways it was actually better than today's but it did vary from place to place and from one set of appointed overseers to he next.

A sojourner is a temporary resident so maybe she was visiting at the John and they decided to marry while she was there. Chris . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Payne" <francisp@xtra.co.nz> To: <eng-hampshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 8:32 AM Subject: [ENG-HANTS] Meaning of SOJOURNER >I know the literal meaning of the word, of course, and can see how it > applies to parish record entries. However, does anyone have practical > experience of how it was applied. For instance my 3g-grandparents marriage > at Christchurch has: > > "John LANE m Elizabeth WOSSEN on 24 April 1808, John of Chch, she a > sojourner" > > This WOSSEN name has got me puzzled. There is a Betty WOSEN who had a > base-born daughter in Milton in 1802. Is nearby Milton far enough away for > someone to be called a sojourner ? > > Francis > > Auckland, NZ > > > ............................................. > Want to contact the local community? > Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings > http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk > ............................................. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HAMPSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Francis Payne wrote: > The Hants RO CALM database has these two removal orders. Any idea how > someone could be removed twice ? Perhaps they successfully appealed the > first one. You can't appeal a removal order once it's been proved that the parish of residence is not the parish the person or persons belong to. What it means is that the family were removed but went back again so had to be removed a second time. I've seen it happen in other parishes elsewhere.

Hi Francis, my guess is that Wossen is derived from a place-name, probably from Woolston (just across the River Itchen from Southampton [there are others]) - my reason for saying this is that Wosencroft is definitely from Woolstonecroft [i.e., Wolstancroft]). You need only move one parish away to be regarded as a sojourner by the parish authorities, ever-mindful of possible drains on the parish rates (sojourners, rather than residents, could be returned to their birth parish if they turned out to be an expense). Old Milton was more than one parish away so qualifies well. New Milton (1904) even further and Milton proper is in Soiuthampton. Regards, David

Maureen can you please contact me ASP Chris .

There was an EYRES family in Totton during the 50s and 60s they ran a chemist shop in Junction Road and had a son called Timothy and a daughter whose name I forget see my website http://www.southernlife.org.uk/eling.htm under MEMORIES OF TOTTON AND TESTWOOD AND if you put EYRES in the search engine on the opening page you will find several pages featuring EYRE and EYRES in various locations in the county Chris SOUTHERN LIFE(UK) History of the villages of Hampshire, Dorset and the Isle of Wight http://southernlife.org.uk . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hillier" <robert@hillieruk.demon.co.uk> To: <eng-hampshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-HANTS] Eyres in Hampshire > Derek, Does the Hampshire Gen. Society Marriage index disc give extra > details for other marriages? In other words, would it as a matter of > course omit the extra details I'd love to see for all marriages and not > just this one? Or, in yet other words, is there still hope that the > Fordingbridge register itself might have the home parish of Phineas EYRES? > I shan't take you up on your very kind offer of furnishing details of > other Hampshire EYRES events since, even by limiting my project to > Dorset, unscrambling the EYRES lines there is already a mammoth task and > adding Hampshire would be definitely ott. I've only dared stray over the > border with Phineas EYRES' Fordingbridge marriage since his name is > unusual and is characteristic of one branch of the Dorset EYRES over > two centuries, so I've reasonable hopes of him being a Dorset stray who > subsequently came back home with a Hampshire wife. > Many thanks for the lookups you've done for me so far, > Best wishes, > Robert > > ............................................. > Want to contact the local community? > Please visit Hampshire Parish Jottings > http://hants.parishjottings.org.uk > ............................................. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-HAMPSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Derek, Does the Hampshire Gen. Society Marriage index disc give extra details for other marriages? In other words, would it as a matter of course omit the extra details I'd love to see for all marriages and not just this one? Or, in yet other words, is there still hope that the Fordingbridge register itself might have the home parish of Phineas EYRES? I shan't take you up on your very kind offer of furnishing details of other Hampshire EYRES events since, even by limiting my project to Dorset, unscrambling the EYRES lines there is already a mammoth task and adding Hampshire would be definitely ott. I've only dared stray over the border with Phineas EYRES' Fordingbridge marriage since his name is unusual and is characteristic of one branch of the Dorset EYRES over two centuries, so I've reasonable hopes of him being a Dorset stray who subsequently came back home with a Hampshire wife. Many thanks for the lookups you've done for me so far, Best wishes, Robert

Is anyone researching the Spinks/Allen tree . They were both born about 1875 and were married on 13th April 1896.They had 2 children Alice Rena May, and Doris Myra. Any help would be appreciated. Marion Haynes

Hello Robert, I consulted the Hampshire Gen. Society Marriage index disc and found your EYRES/MARTIN marriage at Fordingbridge. Whilst it confirms the details you already have, it does not add anything else. The Marriage and Burial records for Hampshire do show a number of EYERS/EYRES records, indicating that there may be other clans of the family in the county. I found only one other event in Fordingbridge :- Henry EYRES married Hannah MICHELL 31 Aug 1818. Hampshire total revealed that there were 8 EYRES (female) marriages between 1758 and 1816 17 EYRES (male) marriages 1762 - 1833 16 EYERS (female) marriages 1756 - 1837 24 EYERS (male) marriages 1762 1837 and between 1400 - 1837 82 EYRES burials 49 EYERS burials Several other entries with variants of the name. Contact me if you would like details of these events. Regards Derek ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:12:07 +0100 From: Robert Hillier <robert@hillieruk.demon.co.uk> Subject: [ENG-HANTS] Fordingbridge parish register lookup request To: ENG-HAMPSHIRE@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <48AC88A7.4090509@hillieruk.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I have an online informal one-name study of EYRES / EYERS / EARS (etc) name in Dorset . As part of this I would be very grateful if anyone with access to a transcript or film of the parish registers for Fordingbridge for 1765 could check the following IGI reference for me: IGI: Phineas Eyres Marriages: Spouse: Mary Martin Marriage: 28 MAY 1765 Fordingbridge, Hampshire, England Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date. Source Information: Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: M146612 1739 - 1789 1041293 I suspect that Phineas EYRES is a stray from Dorset and would like confirmation - perhaps I'll be lucky and the PR will give his home parish. Even if not , perhaps the witness names ( if any) might give a useful clue. I am not related , as far as I know , to Phineas EYRES but it would help a number of other researchers if this tribe of EYRES could be unscrambled from all the others. Thanks for reading this, Robert Hillier, Poole, Dorset The Dorset EYRES Project is online at http://www.gencircles.com/users/roberthillier/8 -- Derek R. Smith.

I have an online informal one-name study of EYRES / EYERS / EARS (etc) name in Dorset . As part of this I would be very grateful if anyone with access to a transcript or film of the parish registers for Fordingbridge for 1765 could check the following IGI reference for me: IGI: Phineas Eyres Marriages: Spouse: Mary Martin Marriage: 28 MAY 1765 Fordingbridge, Hampshire, England Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date. Source Information: Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: M146612 1739 - 1789 1041293 I suspect that Phineas EYRES is a stray from Dorset and would like confirmation - perhaps I'll be lucky and the PR will give his home parish. Even if not , perhaps the witness names ( if any) might give a useful clue. I am not related , as far as I know , to Phineas EYRES but it would help a number of other researchers if this tribe of EYRES could be unscrambled from all the others. Thanks for reading this, Robert Hillier, Poole, Dorset The Dorset EYRES Project is online at http://www.gencircles.com/users/roberthillier/8

Thanks again to Rob & Valerie for the information on the families above. Rob.... all of the entries you found do belong to 'my' Marsh family and it was all new information. Gill -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.5/1619 - Release Date: 18/08/2008 17:39

Hello all Today we have uploaded as follows: FORDINGBRIDGE BAPTISMS 1831- 1834 TRANSCRIBED BY LIZ LANE BISHOPSTOKE BANNS AND MARRIAGES 1754 - 1837 TRANSCRIBED BY CHRIS SPENSLEY ST MAURICE WINCHESTER BAPTISMS - 1734 - 1754 TRANSCRIBED BY CHRIS SPENSLEY HURSLEY BURIALS 1706 - 1711 TRANSCRIBED BY LAWRENCE DANIELL HURSLEY MARRIAGES 1706 - 1710 TRANSCRIBED BY LAWRENCE DANIELL HURSLEY BAPTISMS 1706-1710 TRANSCRIBED BY LAWRENCE DANIELL AMPORT BURIALS 1771 -1773 & 1791 TRANSCRIBED BY FIONNGHAL AMPORT BAPTISMS 1770-1773 TRANSCRIBED BY FIONNGHAL Thank you to all of our volunteer transcribers - their hard work should be appreciated by all Hampshire researchers and their copyright respected. You can check on these and all of the other transcriptions FREE online at www.knightroots.co.uk and click on Online Transcriptions. We are always looking for donations of transcriptions or microfiche, village histories and photographs (MUST BE YOUR OWN COPYRIGHT)or of course, volunteer transcribers. Contact hampshireopc@btinternet.com for details. To find an entry, either use the CTRL+Find on an individual parish page - or use the site search engine on the left hand navigation pane. Take care Linda & Tony Hampshire OPC Co-ordinators

Hi again Jill, Still cannot find the family unit in 1851, but I found these 1851 Census Elizabeth Marsh abt 1831 Landport, Hampshire, England Servant Portsea, HampshireMartha Marsh abt 1834 Landport, Hampshire, England Servant Portsea, Hampshire Both working for Daniel M Cooke in Landport Road, St Pauls, Portsea Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1659; Folio: 342; Page: 3; GSU roll: 193565-193566. and Marriages All Saints Portsea no 446 December 13 1856 Charles BALL, 29, bachelor, Rope Maker, 23 Orange Street & Amelia Jane MARSH, 23, spinster, 1 Baker Street Landport, after Registrar's Registration, fathers Henry BALL, Shipwright HM DY & William MARSH, Sawyer HM DY, in the presence of Henry BALL & Martha MARSH I have a feeling they were omitted from the 1851 census, Rob Kenchington _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/107571435/direct/01/

Claire/Valerie/Rob Many thanks for your replies about the Marshes & Bellingers. Were James & Ann Bellingers both born in Hampshire? By the way, Valerie, they eventually had at least 11 children. You managed to add one more I didn't know about. As a result of the info about the Bellingers, I have now found out a bit about Baffins Farm in Copnor..... absolutely great ... thanks. William & Honor were in Frederick Street, Portsea in 1841 and in Baker Street, Portsea in 1871. I have no idea where they were in 1851 but I would have thought that they were probably still in Portsea. Gill -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1617 - Release Date: 17/08/2008 12:58

Hello Listers In checking some info on my database, I was struck by the number of ROBINS family members of Hampshire (or who had Hampshire connections) with surnames for their middle names. The earliest I know of is Thomas Lowton ROBINS born cir 1760, with Richard Brazier ROBINS (2 of them) born 1779 & 1785, followed by William Wilson ROBINS (1788), another Thomas Lowton ROBINS (1793), Joseph Bromwich ROBINS (1798), John Lyall ROBINS (1802), Nelson Hardy ROBINS (1807), Edward Berry ROBINS (1817), George Ward Godwin ROBINS (1820), Henry Jenkins ROBINS (1823), Emily Jones ROBINS (1825), Ellen Jenkins Pye ROBINS (1825), Emma Sarah Jones ROBINS (1827), Stewart Town ROBINS (1828), Susanna Jenkins ROBINS (1832) and Thomas Gould ROBINS (1838). Some of these are related; others are not known to be related. Then there's the Channel Islands connection, mostly in Guernsey. I have record of a family of Joseph Copplestone ROBINS (birthplace unknown, but father of Thomas Gould ROBINS above), with some other children with surnames for middle names. My interest is because I have the same thing for four siblings of my ROBINS great-grandfather. He was called plain Joseph, but there were Ann Howard ROBINS (1801), William Dear ROBINS (1802), John Gunn ROBINS (1804) and George Lynch ROBINS (1809). They were all born in Guernsey but were in Alverstoke before 1822. Also their paternal grandfather, another Joseph ROBINS, was Hampshire-born. I haven't been able to make any link between my Hampshire ROBINSes and these others in Hampshire. But given what looks like a family custom, I'm wondering if there is a link somewhere. 3 x ggf Joseph ROBINS was born in Hampshire in 1754, 2 x ggf Joseph ROBINS (who moved to Hampshire - apparently working at the Dock Yard - before 1822) was born in Chichester in 1778. Is there anyone 'out there' who has an interest in ROBINSes of round Portsmouth or in this apparent custom of using surnames for middle names for some of their children. Any other comments would be welcome. Many thanks. Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia

Happy to help Gill and yes all the Bellingers were born Hampshire Good luck best wishes Valerie