Hello List, Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not sidelined as a prison hulk. Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would be most welcome! Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon

Did you try TheShips-L: http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/Crocodile1.htm ---- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile Hello List, Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not sidelined as a prison hulk. Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would be most welcome! Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this web site seems to list only commercial ships, not Royal Navy (i.e., military) vessels. I was looking for a possible ancestor of mine who *may* be somebody shown on the HMS Alexandra in the 1881 British Census, but the web site shows that the "Alexandra" that it knows about was built in 1897 (i.e., after the census). I suppose that a ship for the wives of naval personnel might not be a Royal Navy one (i.e., it may be the "HMS Crocodile" that Pam's after and is shown on TheShips-L in your link), or the web site may have "gaps" or errors. A very interesting and useful site all the same. Thanks for the link! Doug - Toronto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edna" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > Did you try TheShips-L: > > http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/Crocodile1.htm > > ---- > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > > Hello List, > > Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for > wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, > the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census > apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS > Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the > HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison > ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from > 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a > troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not > sidelined as a prison hulk. > > Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't > emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in > 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, > pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who > was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she > doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. > > Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would > be most welcome! > > Thanks, > > Pam Perryman > Eugene, Oregon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

There was, Doug, a HMS Alexandra, launched in 1875 an Ironclad Battleship, 1st Class armoured, She was in the Mediterranean during the period 1881-2, and took part in the bombardment of Alexandria in 1882. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lacy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > Correct me if I'm wrong, but this web site seems to list only commercial > ships, not Royal Navy (i.e., military) vessels. > > I was looking for a possible ancestor of mine who *may* be somebody shown on > the HMS Alexandra in the 1881 British Census, but the web site shows that > the "Alexandra" that it knows about was built in 1897 (i.e., after the > census). I suppose that a ship for the wives of naval personnel might not be > a Royal Navy one (i.e., it may be the "HMS Crocodile" that Pam's after and > is shown on TheShips-L in your link), or the web site may have "gaps" or > errors. > > A very interesting and useful site all the same. Thanks for the link! > > Doug - Toronto > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edna" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Did you try TheShips-L: >> >> http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/Crocodile1.htm >> >> ---- >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM >> Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile >> >> >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HMS CROCODILE was an "Indian Troopship" used to transport British troops from Britain to India and back. The 1881 census describes her as "at sea or in a foreign port". In addition to her naval crew she was transporting members of the military- RMLI, RA and a number of foot regiments - and government employees She was presumably on route to India, as the passengers include members of the 62nd and other Regiments which were in 1881 stationed in India. It is obvious that some of the women and children on board are the families of these men. So I have doubts if Georgina BYRNE is a naval wife. However these are the accommodation arrangements on HMS Crocodile. Wives with babies lived on the deck below the saloon and their part of the ship was called the "Nursery". Single women lived on the same deck but in an easily segregated area named "The Dovecot". Unmarried subalterns lived below the waterline in "The Pandemonium". The NCO's and men were even lower but they had the benefit of the daily naval rum ration. The CROCODILE was reputed to have the best food of the Indian Troop Ships.. It was however, both slow and increasingly overcrowded as the numbers crept up to 1800 a voyage. David . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > Hello List, > > Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for > wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, > the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census > apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS > Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the > HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison > ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from > 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a > troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not > sidelined as a prison hulk. > > Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't > emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in > 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, > pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who > was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she > doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. > > Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would > be most welcome! > > Thanks, > > Pam Perryman > Eugene, Oregon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I came across the Crocodile when researching the Drummond family in Hampshire. It was because a sub-branch of the family were represented by one of their number who was married to a man who was later to become the most senior Colnel of the Royal Army Medical Corps. At the time he was Surgeon-Major John Maturin (then of the Army Medical Service) who was accompaned by his wife Adeline (nee Drummond) and a 5 of their sons. Maturin was from Protestant Irish stock and was a close relative of the Vicar of Lymington. He was later in partnership with his brother, after having been the GP in Fawley. The reports indicate that on the night of the census the ship was commanded by Captain F P Doughty, RN and they were accompanied by Lord Ralph Kerr, Lieutenant-Colonel, 10th Hussars, later to become a Major-General and Colonel of the 10th. Adeline's father, Lt.Col. William Charles Drummond, was retired from the 10th Hussars. Also on board were serving soldiers and familys associated with some 33 regiments or corps. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Parker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > HMS CROCODILE was an "Indian Troopship" used to transport British > troops from Britain to India and back. The 1881 census describes her as > "at sea or in a foreign port". In addition to her naval crew she was > transporting members of the military- RMLI, RA and a number of foot > regiments - and government employees She was presumably on route to India, > as the passengers include members of the 62nd and other Regiments which > were in 1881 stationed in India. It is obvious that some of the women and > children on board are the families of these men. So I have doubts if > Georgina BYRNE is a naval wife. > > > > However these are the accommodation arrangements on HMS Crocodile. > > > > Wives with babies lived on the deck below the saloon and their part of the > ship was called the "Nursery". > > Single women lived on the same deck but in an easily segregated area named > "The Dovecot". > > Unmarried subalterns lived below the waterline in "The Pandemonium". > > The NCO's and men were even lower but they had the benefit of the daily > naval rum ration. > > > > The CROCODILE was reputed to have the best food of the Indian Troop > Ships.. It was however, both slow and increasingly overcrowded as the > numbers crept up to 1800 a voyage. > > > > David . > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >