I have a little problem to put to the wise and much learned of the list. I have from the 1881 Census RG11 1146/75 Page 28 Residence 4 Camden Alley (Royal George) probably a pub, relations which are a bit confusing. Sarah NEWELL b 1837 Havant, Beer House keeper, Widowed, Head of household. Also in the residence is Charles L HOLLIS Brother in Law, Married, Age 47, born Newport Isle of Wight, Retail Tobacconist. Now I have both HOLLIS and NEWELL ancestors. If Sarah is a widow then I would have thought her maiden name would have been something else, and if Charles is a brother in law then her husband would have been HOLLIS. So do I look for a Sarah HOLLIS or NEWELL in later Census and Kelly's. If SKS can help with Kelly's around that time to see who the pub licencee was before or after 1881 it may be able to clear the mystery up. Regards Bob Newell

----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Willcocks" <martinwill2@comcast.net> To: <ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 6:11 AM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Portsmouth Education in 1906-16 > Hi All: > > Can anyone tell me more about the following educational organizations in > Portsmouth, please? > > My father I know went to Portsmouth Grammar School between February 1894 > and about 1898. This school is of course still in existence. We visited > Portsmouth in 1991 and in 1997, and I have located it on the Web. > I have just received the military records of my uncle, Percy Squire > WILLCOCKS. Among the information he gave in his application for officer > cadet training, he stated that he was educated at Portsmouth Boys > Secondary School, and Portsmouth Municipal College. Assuming he entered > secondary school 10-11 years after his birth on 12 Feb 1896, this would > mean he started there about 1906. I would guess at a five year period > there, followed by a spell at the college, probably 1911-1914. > > As he was trained as a chemist and druggist and qualified on 9 Jul 1919, > he must have had some period of apprenticeship to an established chemist. > His older brother Edmund qualified as a chemist and druggist on 8 Oct > 1908. At that time, his residence was given as 142 High St., Walthamstow, > Essex. It is also clear from the record that Percy was at the same > address when he was recruited by the Army. He was placed in A1 condition > by the Recruiting Medical Board in Dec 1916 at Leytonstone, Essex. (this > address is close to Whipps Cross Hospital in Leytonstone.) He enlisted, > according to the record, on 22 Jan 1917. This address was used throughout > his career in the Army, and he was promoted to 2nd. Lieut. after seeing > action at the Battle of Arras, on 28 Mar 1918. He gave the same address > when he qualified as a chemist, but there is one other address on his > military record, 8 Burlington Rd., Portsmouth. > > He also mentioned as references Dr. G. J. Parks, c/o Boys Secondary > School, Portsmouth, and Rev. P.. Clayton, c/o St. Mary's Vicarage, > Portsea, Portsmouth. This was part of an application he signed and dated > 3 Feb 1918. > > Questions: > 1. Is the Boys Secondary School a different entity from Portsmouth > Grammar School? Where is it located, if still in existence, or where was > it located in 1906-1911? Are any school records available? I would > expect his reference was probably head of that school; between what years > was he there (possibly he was head in 1918 still)? > > 2. When was the Rev. Clayton the incumbent at St. Mary's Portsea? > > 3. Is there a baptism record for Percy at St. Mary's Portsea, shortly > after 12 Feb 1896? > > 4. Who was living at 8 Burlington Rd., Portsmouth, in October 1918? His > father, Edmund Squire Willcocks, died in 1908, and Edmund's widow, Alice > Ann Willcocks, may still have lived in the area, and would have been about > 57. > > 5. Is the Municipal College still in existence? Where is (or was) it > located? Would this be likely to have provided an > upper school education in chemistry in the 1911-1914 period? And are > there any records of students there for those years that could be searched > for Percy? > > As always, in this research, there are more questions raised by about > every answer! > > Percy was the only uncle my brother and I ever met. Louis Horace > Willcocks seems to be a complete mystery, though we are aware that he > married, and may have one son. > Any help on these topics (Portsmouth related) would be appreciated. > > TIA and regards, > Martin Willcocks > Taylorsville, UT, USA. > > > > > ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== > Family historian love graveyards they are the sort of places they like to > visit to meet up with old relatives > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > >Hello Martin, I went to two of the establishments you mention so I might be able to help. a) the Portsmouth Grammar School is an old established foundation and you appear to know of it, b) I believe it was the 1906 Eductaion Act that set up secondary education and from which we get the Portsmouth Northern Secondary School and the Portsmouth Southern Secondary School. The latter came first and was located in Victoria Road South as someone has said. To the best of my knowledge the boys were eventually in Albert Road and the girls just near Fratton Bridge. The Northern started off in the St. Mary's Institute and then moved to a purpose built school in Mayfield Road, North End. It is now a comprehensive. I went there in 1941 but the school had been evacuated to Winchester. In 1944 a further education act promoted the 2 secondary schools to grammar schools so there were, at one time, three in Portsmouth. c) Portsmouth Municipal College was set up late in the 19thC, I believe, to provide tertiary education. I believe it then became a cCollege of Technology and then a Polytechnic and eventually formed the basis for the University of Portsmouth.in combination eith the teacher's training college at Milton. I may be wrong with some of this but don't think I'm that far wrong. Regards Ken Grubb Cheltenham Glos.

Thanks very much to Brian for the details of the Council Secondary School (Boys) which with the headmaster's name confirms it to have been the right school. Also for the information about the Municipal College, and its chemistry teacher. Thanks also to Ken for the details of the history of these schools, from which I would guess that if any records survive from the early 1900's they would likely be in the present day U of P archive and whatever the Portsmouth Secondary School became after its upping to a grammar school. Does anyone know where these places can be contacted or if they are on the Web like PGS? Regards Martin Willcocks Taylorsville, UT, USA. Brian wrote: >From Kellys 1911 - Council Secondary School (Boys), Victoria Rd North. built 1892 and enlarged 1911, and is under the control of the Higher Education Committee. The buildings include well equipped laboratories for practical chemistry & physics, workshops for for wood & metalwork, & lecture rooms; preparation is given for preceptors' , dockyard apprentices' & Civil Service examinations & public examinations generally: the school is available for 440 boys: George John Parks D.Sc. Univ. of London, head master. The Borough of Portsmouth Municipal College was in Park Rd, Landport. Fred Beddow D.Sc, Ph.D. was Instructor of chemistry. Ken wrote: b) I believe it was the 1906 Education Act that set up secondary education and from which we get the Portsmouth Northern Secondary School and the Portsmouth Southern Secondary School. The latter came first and was located in Victoria Road South as someone has said. To the best of my knowledge the boys were eventually in Albert Road and the girls just near Fratton Bridge. The Northern started off in the St. Mary's Institute and then moved to a purpose built school in Mayfield Road, North End. It is now a comprehensive. I went there in 1941 but the school had been evacuated to Winchester. In 1944 a further education act promoted the 2 secondary schools to grammar schools so there were, at one time, three in Portsmouth. -- (What is it now?) c) Portsmouth Municipal College was set up late in the 19thC, I believe, to provide tertiary education. I believe it then became a College of Technology and then a Polytechnic and eventually formed the basis for the University of Portsmouth, in combination with the teacher's training college at Milton.

Hi Tony & LInda, I was looking up some info for a friend, and found the marriage concerned at Alverstoke on the IGI. do you have the full parish details for this entry please?: Edwin John Sharp and Elizabeth Grunsell married September 9, 1855, alverstoke Cheers, Jon -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.15 - Release Date: 5/22/05

Received a reply from Simon in Canberra re the above header - managed to delete before I replied - could he please contact me off line - pam@shoalhaven.net.au. Apologies Linda and Tony - but we had a week of rain and have been celebrating!! - Pamela

Hi Martin, Can't help you with much I am afraid. School logs and admission records are a very good source for information and very often overlooked. Unfortunately many schools kept these on the premises with the result that the 1941 air raids destroyed a number. Those that have survived may have found their way to the Record Office who might be able to help. I have a postcard of the Higher Grade School, Portsmouth written by the Headmaster Mr G J Parks postmarked March 22 nd 1904.but I have no idea where it was situated. Mike Hill Waterlooville

Hi All: Can anyone tell me more about the following educational organizations in Portsmouth, please? My father I know went to Portsmouth Grammar School between February 1894 and about 1898. This school is of course still in existence. We visited Portsmouth in 1991 and in 1997, and I have located it on the Web. I have just received the military records of my uncle, Percy Squire WILLCOCKS. Among the information he gave in his application for officer cadet training, he stated that he was educated at Portsmouth Boys Secondary School, and Portsmouth Municipal College. Assuming he entered secondary school 10-11 years after his birth on 12 Feb 1896, this would mean he started there about 1906. I would guess at a five year period there, followed by a spell at the college, probably 1911-1914. As he was trained as a chemist and druggist and qualified on 9 Jul 1919, he must have had some period of apprenticeship to an established chemist. His older brother Edmund qualified as a chemist and druggist on 8 Oct 1908. At that time, his residence was given as 142 High St., Walthamstow, Essex. It is also clear from the record that Percy was at the same address when he was recruited by the Army. He was placed in A1 condition by the Recruiting Medical Board in Dec 1916 at Leytonstone, Essex. (this address is close to Whipps Cross Hospital in Leytonstone.) He enlisted, according to the record, on 22 Jan 1917. This address was used throughout his career in the Army, and he was promoted to 2nd. Lieut. after seeing action at the Battle of Arras, on 28 Mar 1918. He gave the same address when he qualified as a chemist, but there is one other address on his military record, 8 Burlington Rd., Portsmouth. He also mentioned as references Dr. G. J. Parks, c/o Boys Secondary School, Portsmouth, and Rev. P.. Clayton, c/o St. Mary's Vicarage, Portsea, Portsmouth. This was part of an application he signed and dated 3 Feb 1918. Questions: 1. Is the Boys Secondary School a different entity from Portsmouth Grammar School? Where is it located, if still in existence, or where was it located in 1906-1911? Are any school records available? I would expect his reference was probably head of that school; between what years was he there (possibly he was head in 1918 still)? 2. When was the Rev. Clayton the incumbent at St. Mary's Portsea? 3. Is there a baptism record for Percy at St. Mary's Portsea, shortly after 12 Feb 1896? 4. Who was living at 8 Burlington Rd., Portsmouth, in October 1918? His father, Edmund Squire Willcocks, died in 1908, and Edmund's widow, Alice Ann Willcocks, may still have lived in the area, and would have been about 57. 5. Is the Municipal College still in existence? Where is (or was) it located? Would this be likely to have provided an upper school education in chemistry in the 1911-1914 period? And are there any records of students there for those years that could be searched for Percy? As always, in this research, there are more questions raised by about every answer! Percy was the only uncle my brother and I ever met. Louis Horace Willcocks seems to be a complete mystery, though we are aware that he married, and may have one son. Any help on these topics (Portsmouth related) would be appreciated. TIA and regards, Martin Willcocks Taylorsville, UT, USA.

Can anyone shed light on this individual - it's a while since I was on this list so hopefully there might be someone "new" who can help find the missing pieces of my jigsaw puzzle! My G-grandmother, Mary Jane ROUTLEDGE is listed on the 1881 and 1901 census as being born in Gosport and from these I have calculated her birth as being circa 1855. However, the 1891 census gives a different age for her and suggests she was born in 1852 . The inscription on her headstone states she died 02/Apr/1923, in her 70th year - that gives a birth date of approx 1853 . Her parents were Mary (?surname) and William ROUTLEDGE - at the time I believe he may have been serving in the Royal Artillery and was based in the Gosport area, having been born in Hayton, Cumbria. However, I have been unable to find a valid birth record for Mary Jane in Gosport or it's environs. If her father was in the army at the time would they have had a specific chapel for baptisms or marriages? Any ideas? regards, Sue --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends online?

Forton St John church could be the church. We could check to see if we can find a baptism if this would help? Linda & Tony My G-grandmother, Mary Jane ROUTLEDGE is listed on the 1881 and 1901 census as being born in Gosport and from these I have calculated her birth as being circa 1855. However, the 1891 census gives a different age for her and suggests she was born in 1852 . The inscription on her headstone states she died 02/Apr/1923, in her 70th year - that gives a birth date of approx 1853 . Her parents were Mary (?surname) and William ROUTLEDGE - at the time I believe he may have been serving in the Royal Artillery and was based in the Gosport area, having been born in Hayton, Cumbria. However, I have been unable to find a valid birth record for Mary Jane in Gosport or it's environs. If her father was in the army at the time would they have had a specific chapel for baptisms or marriages?

Hi Rich, you may be able to find some info on 1837 on-line, click on the BMD overseas (plus WW1 and WW2) it is not a very costly excersise so worth a try. I found my wife's people on this site. Good luck, Mike -----Original Message----- From: Rich [mailto:richvr@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 21 May 2005 21:26 To: ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Off Topic Marriage in Holland WW2 I am trying to trace a marriage which is supposed to have taken place between 1945 and 1951 in Holland, possibly in the Utrecht area. The bride was a Dutch national and the groom was serving in the RAF. Both are now deceased. Can anyone please give me any ideas how I might go about finding if, where and when this marriage may have taken place? I am not very mobile, so travelling is rather difficult. Many thanks Rich -- Rich Can't we just take the warning labels off everything and let society's stupidity problem solve itself? For Views from my Windows, visit http://www.richvr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== Are they called brickwalls because there is always MORTAR find? ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005

I am trying to trace a marriage which is supposed to have taken place between 1945 and 1951 in Holland, possibly in the Utrecht area. The bride was a Dutch national and the groom was serving in the RAF. Both are now deceased. Can anyone please give me any ideas how I might go about finding if, where and when this marriage may have taken place? I am not very mobile, so travelling is rather difficult. Many thanks Rich -- Rich Can't we just take the warning labels off everything and let society's stupidity problem solve itself? For Views from my Windows, visit http://www.richvr.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Sorry Linda & Tony, I replied without thinking. Slapped wrists Rosemary

Hi Bob, Me too!! Rosemary ----- Original Message ----- From: <bob.newell@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:03 PM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Off List > Sorry this off list a bit but is any one encountering the same problems with > being swamped with Lottery and offers to clear African money scams or is it > just me > > Bob > > > ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== > practice safe text - tell the Listowners about virus worries - DON'T > SPREAD IT ON THE LIST! > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >

Sorry this off list a bit but is any one encountering the same problems with being swamped with Lottery and offers to clear African money scams or is it just me Bob

Slapped wrists not needed . Take care,Linda and Tony Sorry Linda & Tony, I replied without thinking. Slapped wrists Rosemary

Please if anyone has problems which they know or believe is off topic would they please write to us OFF LIST. Thanks Linda and Tony: Sorry this off list a bit but is any one encountering the same problems with being swamped with Lottery and offers to clear African money scams or is it just me Bob

Sorry to have troubled you, Paul. Thanks for your reply. Rosemary ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL STACEY" <pbkstacey@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Portsmouth families. > Sorry Rosemary > > Rowlands Castle is too far out for me. > > Best wishes > > Paul > > Rosemary Valentine <rosemary.valentine@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Hi Paul, > If your directories extend to Rowlands Castle, may I jump in and ask for a > look up for any HUDSON's you might find? Possibly an H. Hudson? > Many thanks > Rosemary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "PAUL STACEY" > > To: > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 4:11 PM > Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Portsmouth families. > > > > Hi Audrey > > > > I have some old street directories for Portsmouth from 1930 to 1975 if you > have any address's I could look them up for you. > > > > I have a William Galloway living in the Cosham area of Portsmouth " the > only one in 1948". Also David Gander living in Southsea area of Portsmouth. > > > > If you need address please contact my off list. > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > Audrey wrote: > > Hello, I subscribed to your list recently in the hope of helping a friend > > put together his family tree and hopefully find some living half brothers. > > > > He is William GALLOWAY born 1943 to William GALLOWAY and Lillian Beatrice > > DAY. This was Lillians second marriage, She married ? GANDER in > > Portsmouth July 1/4 1929. She married William Galloway in 1941. > > Children Ronald in 1930 > > David 1934 > > Brian 1935 were born to the GANDER /DAY marriage and > > William Alec born in 1943 was the first child of the second marriage. > > His father was: > > WILLIAM ALEC GALLOWAY(2) born 1917 was the son of William Campbell > Galloway > > and Elizabeth Cox. (Spooner name is attached to this fgamily somewhare, > > maybe a second marriage. > > his mother was: > > LILLIAN BEATRICE DAY born 1909 Portsmouth daughter of Albert George Day > > and Lillie Selina Green( dau of Charles William Green, Market > > gardener )Portsmouth.. > > > > Albert George Day was also known as George, Alfred G, George A, > > > > I hope this makes some sense, and I would dearly love to help him. > > We are hoping his siblings by the GANDER marriage may still be alive. > > I would appreciate any knowledge at all of these names. > > I am finding it hard to move forward as most of the initial research is > > post 1900 and that complicates life from this side of the world. > > > > Thank you all. > > Audrey Green > > Hobart, Tasmania > > Australia > > > > -----Original Message > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/05 > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== > > Visit the knightroots website at www.knightroots.co.uk > > > > ============================== > > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends > online? > > > > > > ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== > > Spring clean your tree and see if you can dust off some new rellies > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== > Visit the knightroots website at www.knightroots.co.uk > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends online? > > > ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== > Granny SMITHs aren't just the name of an apple they are in many a family tree too > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

Hi, These are scams -- do not touch with a barge pole. Don't let us talk about it on-list. Delete-delete-delete! Edna - Ottawa ----- Original Message ----- From: <bob.newell@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 12:03 PM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Off List Sorry this off list a bit but is any one encountering the same problems with being swamped with Lottery and offers to clear African money scams or is it just me Bob ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== practice safe text - tell the Listowners about virus worries - DON'T SPREAD IT ON THE LIST! ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Thought you might be interested -- there was a lot of concern about the Great War Medal Index cards and whether they were to be destroyed. Edna - Ottawa ---- "Some friends were at a local Western Front Association meeting ( they have an interest in WW1 history, for those who are unaware of the WFA ) and found that they have been granted custodianship of the Great War Medal Index Cards and the women's cards are going to the Imperial War Museum - it looks like the Ministry of Defence are not going to destroy them after all !! The WFA are hoping to digitally record the back of the cards too - apparently 5% of the cards have information on the reverse. If you would like to read more about this, here is the link to the website. http://www.westernfront.co.uk/news/ "

Sorry Barbara, No Thomas Pickles. Regards Paul John White <whthouse@telus.net> wrote: Hello Paul, May i also ask a big favour? If you happen across a Thomas Pickles i would appreciate info. Many thanks, Barbara ==== ENG-HAM-PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT Mailing List ==== Visit the knightroots website at www.knightroots.co.uk ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends online?