I can assure you that HMS Crocodile was a Royal Navy vessel, I went and checked the navy lists in the Portsmouth Guildhall Library Special Collections Library. You will notice from my previous posting that the Crocodile was commanded by Captain Doughty, RN. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lacy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > Correct me if I'm wrong, but this web site seems to list only commercial > ships, not Royal Navy (i.e., military) vessels. > > I was looking for a possible ancestor of mine who *may* be somebody shown > on > the HMS Alexandra in the 1881 British Census, but the web site shows that > the "Alexandra" that it knows about was built in 1897 (i.e., after the > census). I suppose that a ship for the wives of naval personnel might not > be > a Royal Navy one (i.e., it may be the "HMS Crocodile" that Pam's after and > is shown on TheShips-L in your link), or the web site may have "gaps" or > errors. > > A very interesting and useful site all the same. Thanks for the link! > > Doug - Toronto > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edna" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Did you try TheShips-L: >> >> http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/Crocodile1.htm >> >> ---- >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM >> Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile >> >> >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

Does anyone know about the Portsmouth Vignettes? This would seem to be a series of publications. I'm interested in No. 10, "The elusive Burneys", by 'JM'. I don't know the publication date or anything else about it. I found the reference in a bibliography that is part of a 1999 dissertation about Burney's Academy in Gosport. I searched the web without scoring a hit. Thanks, Peter Gawn Sechelt, B.C., Canada.

Doug Lacy wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong, but this web site seems to list only commercial > ships, not Royal Navy (i.e., military) vessels. > > I was looking for a possible ancestor of mine who *may* be somebody shown on > the HMS Alexandra in the 1881 British Census, but the web site shows that > the "Alexandra" that it knows about was built in 1897 (i.e., after the > census). I suppose that a ship for the wives of naval personnel might not be > a Royal Navy one (i.e., it may be the "HMS Crocodile" that Pam's after and > is shown on TheShips-L in your link), or the web site may have "gaps" or > errors. > > A very interesting and useful site all the same. Thanks for the link! > > Doug - Toronto > There are basically two places to look for ships in the 1881 census on Ancestry: 1) having selected the 1881 census to search, browse down the page to the list of counties; one of these is "Royal Navy" and selecting this gives a list of the naval ships in the census. 2) in each county there is a district "Vessels"; this lists the commercial vessels in that county at the census Cheers, Ian

I came across the Crocodile when researching the Drummond family in Hampshire. It was because a sub-branch of the family were represented by one of their number who was married to a man who was later to become the most senior Colnel of the Royal Army Medical Corps. At the time he was Surgeon-Major John Maturin (then of the Army Medical Service) who was accompaned by his wife Adeline (nee Drummond) and a 5 of their sons. Maturin was from Protestant Irish stock and was a close relative of the Vicar of Lymington. He was later in partnership with his brother, after having been the GP in Fawley. The reports indicate that on the night of the census the ship was commanded by Captain F P Doughty, RN and they were accompanied by Lord Ralph Kerr, Lieutenant-Colonel, 10th Hussars, later to become a Major-General and Colonel of the 10th. Adeline's father, Lt.Col. William Charles Drummond, was retired from the 10th Hussars. Also on board were serving soldiers and familys associated with some 33 regiments or corps. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Parker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > HMS CROCODILE was an "Indian Troopship" used to transport British > troops from Britain to India and back. The 1881 census describes her as > "at sea or in a foreign port". In addition to her naval crew she was > transporting members of the military- RMLI, RA and a number of foot > regiments - and government employees She was presumably on route to India, > as the passengers include members of the 62nd and other Regiments which > were in 1881 stationed in India. It is obvious that some of the women and > children on board are the families of these men. So I have doubts if > Georgina BYRNE is a naval wife. > > > > However these are the accommodation arrangements on HMS Crocodile. > > > > Wives with babies lived on the deck below the saloon and their part of the > ship was called the "Nursery". > > Single women lived on the same deck but in an easily segregated area named > "The Dovecot". > > Unmarried subalterns lived below the waterline in "The Pandemonium". > > The NCO's and men were even lower but they had the benefit of the daily > naval rum ration. > > > > The CROCODILE was reputed to have the best food of the Indian Troop > Ships.. It was however, both slow and increasingly overcrowded as the > numbers crept up to 1800 a voyage. > > > > David . > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

There was, Doug, a HMS Alexandra, launched in 1875 an Ironclad Battleship, 1st Class armoured, She was in the Mediterranean during the period 1881-2, and took part in the bombardment of Alexandria in 1882. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lacy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > Correct me if I'm wrong, but this web site seems to list only commercial > ships, not Royal Navy (i.e., military) vessels. > > I was looking for a possible ancestor of mine who *may* be somebody shown on > the HMS Alexandra in the 1881 British Census, but the web site shows that > the "Alexandra" that it knows about was built in 1897 (i.e., after the > census). I suppose that a ship for the wives of naval personnel might not be > a Royal Navy one (i.e., it may be the "HMS Crocodile" that Pam's after and > is shown on TheShips-L in your link), or the web site may have "gaps" or > errors. > > A very interesting and useful site all the same. Thanks for the link! > > Doug - Toronto > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edna" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Did you try TheShips-L: >> >> http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/Crocodile1.htm >> >> ---- >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM >> Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile >> >> >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Vision of Britain - another good site: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=843 Edna - Ottawa

Yes, David, that's him, born about 1883. Georgina may have had her sister Frances Mary Nelson come help out around Reginald's birth. A year later, Frances Mary is married to Charles Neve, a photographer who grew up near Canterbury and could have been working there. Frances and Charles Neve are the aunt and uncle who take in Reginald after his parents and then his grandparents seem to disappear / die. I find it also interesting that Georgina seems to have married an Irish born military man -- her father, Matthew Nelson, was an Irish born Master Gunner RA. When you pay close attention to dates and places, it's amazing the stories they suggest -- although "suggest" is about all it can be for most of the story. There's only so much we can document . . . Thanks for your help with this branch of the family! Pam On Jan 20, 2007, at 6:38 PM, David Parker wrote: > Hi Pam, > > The only Reginald Byrne that I can find on- > line in the > 1901 census was born in Canterbury. > Is this your man? If so, the mobility of the father could suggest > his > being in the Army. > Whatever, I would get the marriage certificate. - I have given > you the > reference. This would confirm or otherwise if these are the right > people. > If they are, you will learn the occupation of the husband, and if > he is > Army, it will probably give his regiment or if navy probably give > his ship. > Hopefully it will give you his service number. This information > will open > up a number of avenues to you. > > David > > From: "Pam Perryman" [email protected] > To: "Ports-Gosport" <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:02 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMMS Crocodile > > >> Thanks for the suggestions folks. I had found the possibly marriage >> to John Byrne in West Derby in 1877 and discounted it as too far >> from > >> Portsmouth to be reasonable (the names were fairly common -- could be >> a coincidence, etc.). Thanks so much for suggesting it, David, >> because now things are beginning to click together. I recently found >> Goergina's aunt, Ann Perryman, working as a cook in West Derby in the >> 1881 census. In 1861 Ann Perryman was the licensed victualler at the >> Mitre Tavern, Alverstoke, and Georgina's family were living at the >> tavern. By 1871 Georgina was a bar maid at the Mitre and Ann had >> moved into private service as a cook for a family in Portsea. By 1881 >> Ann's in West Derby cooking at a parsonage. Georgina could have gone >> to West Derby to work a job Ann got for her and married there, ending >> up back in Portsmouth harbor for the 1881 census. Looks like I may >> have to break down and buy a marriage certificate for this one. >> >> Is there any place I can check to see whether John Byrne or Georgina >> Byrne are in India between 1882 and 1891? Her son, Reginald J. Byrne >> (born about 1883), is in England in 1891 and 1901, living first with >> Georgina's parents (1891), then Georgina's sister and husband (1901). >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAM- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A good site if you are planning to visit Britain ~ http://www.visitbritain.com/ Edna ~ Ottawa

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this web site seems to list only commercial ships, not Royal Navy (i.e., military) vessels. I was looking for a possible ancestor of mine who *may* be somebody shown on the HMS Alexandra in the 1881 British Census, but the web site shows that the "Alexandra" that it knows about was built in 1897 (i.e., after the census). I suppose that a ship for the wives of naval personnel might not be a Royal Navy one (i.e., it may be the "HMS Crocodile" that Pam's after and is shown on TheShips-L in your link), or the web site may have "gaps" or errors. A very interesting and useful site all the same. Thanks for the link! Doug - Toronto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edna" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > Did you try TheShips-L: > > http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/Crocodile1.htm > > ---- > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > > Hello List, > > Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for > wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, > the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census > apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS > Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the > HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison > ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from > 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a > troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not > sidelined as a prison hulk. > > Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't > emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in > 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, > pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who > was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she > doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. > > Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would > be most welcome! > > Thanks, > > Pam Perryman > Eugene, Oregon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

Hi Pam, The only Reginald Byrne that I can find on-line in the 1901 census was born in Canterbury. Is this your man? If so, the mobility of the father could suggest his being in the Army. Whatever, I would get the marriage certificate. - I have given you the reference. This would confirm or otherwise if these are the right people. If they are, you will learn the occupation of the husband, and if he is Army, it will probably give his regiment or if navy probably give his ship. Hopefully it will give you his service number. This information will open up a number of avenues to you. David From: "Pam Perryman" [email protected] To: "Ports-Gosport" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:02 PM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMMS Crocodile > Thanks for the suggestions folks. I had found the possibly marriage > to John Byrne in West Derby in 1877 and discounted it as too far from > > Portsmouth to be reasonable (the names were fairly common -- could be > a coincidence, etc.). Thanks so much for suggesting it, David, > because now things are beginning to click together. I recently found > Goergina's aunt, Ann Perryman, working as a cook in West Derby in the > 1881 census. In 1861 Ann Perryman was the licensed victualler at the > Mitre Tavern, Alverstoke, and Georgina's family were living at the > tavern. By 1871 Georgina was a bar maid at the Mitre and Ann had > moved into private service as a cook for a family in Portsea. By 1881 > Ann's in West Derby cooking at a parsonage. Georgina could have gone > to West Derby to work a job Ann got for her and married there, ending > up back in Portsmouth harbor for the 1881 census. Looks like I may > have to break down and buy a marriage certificate for this one. > > Is there any place I can check to see whether John Byrne or Georgina > Byrne are in India between 1882 and 1891? Her son, Reginald J. Byrne > (born about 1883), is in England in 1891 and 1901, living first with > Georgina's parents (1891), then Georgina's sister and husband (1901). > > Thanks, > > Pam Perryman > Eugene, Oregon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message

Pamela, LDS site www.familysearch/org shows '81 Census for HMS Crocodile -- your info looks correct. Edna - Ottawa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile Thanks Edna and David -- I had checked the ShipsList site and she didn't appear on the list for the Crcodile. Perhaps I misread the census pages previous to the one with Georgina on it and got the wrong ship name. The photocopy I have here gives the reference as RG11/5633/16, pg.19. Georgina Byrne appears on line 19, married, 25, right to be my relative. Could someone with access to the 1881 census check to see if this is really the Crocodile? Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon On Jan 20, 2007, at 11:23 AM, David Parker wrote: > HMS CROCODILE was an "Indian Troopship" used to transport > British troops from Britain to India and back. The 1881 census > describes her as "at sea or in a foreign port". In addition to > her naval crew she was transporting members of the military- RMLI, > RA and a number of foot regiments - and government employees She > was presumably on route to India, as the passengers include members > of the 62nd and other Regiments which were in 1881 stationed in > India. It is obvious that some of the women and children on board > are the families of these men. So I have doubts if Georgina BYRNE > is a naval wife. > > > > However these are the accommodation arrangements on HMS Crocodile. > > > > Wives with babies lived on the deck below the saloon and their part > of the ship was called the "Nursery". > > Single women lived on the same deck but in an easily segregated > area named "The Dovecot". > > Unmarried subalterns lived below the waterline in "The Pandemonium". > > The NCO's and men were even lower but they had the benefit of the > daily naval rum ration. > > > > The CROCODILE was reputed to have the best food of the Indian Troop > Ships.. It was however, both slow and increasingly overcrowded as > the numbers crept up to 1800 a voyage. > > > > David . > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her >> death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAM- >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >> the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAM- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You can check the '81 on the LDS site www.familysearch.org/ Edna - Ottawa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile Thanks Edna and David -- I had checked the ShipsList site and she didn't appear on the list for the Crcodile. Perhaps I misread the census pages previous to the one with Georgina on it and got the wrong ship name. The photocopy I have here gives the reference as RG11/5633/16, pg.19. Georgina Byrne appears on line 19, married, 25, right to be my relative. Could someone with access to the 1881 census check to see if this is really the Crocodile? Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon On Jan 20, 2007, at 11:23 AM, David Parker wrote: > HMS CROCODILE was an "Indian Troopship" used to transport > British troops from Britain to India and back. The 1881 census > describes her as "at sea or in a foreign port". In addition to > her naval crew she was transporting members of the military- RMLI, > RA and a number of foot regiments - and government employees She > was presumably on route to India, as the passengers include members > of the 62nd and other Regiments which were in 1881 stationed in > India. It is obvious that some of the women and children on board > are the families of these men. So I have doubts if Georgina BYRNE > is a naval wife. > > > > However these are the accommodation arrangements on HMS Crocodile. > > > > Wives with babies lived on the deck below the saloon and their part > of the ship was called the "Nursery". > > Single women lived on the same deck but in an easily segregated > area named "The Dovecot". > > Unmarried subalterns lived below the waterline in "The Pandemonium". > > The NCO's and men were even lower but they had the benefit of the > daily naval rum ration. > > > > The CROCODILE was reputed to have the best food of the Indian Troop > Ships.. It was however, both slow and increasingly overcrowded as > the numbers crept up to 1800 a voyage. > > > > David . > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her >> death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAM- >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >> the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAM- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I had found the possibly marriage to John Byrne in West Derby in 1877 and discounted it as too far from Portsmouth to be reasonable (the names were fairly common -- could be a coincidence, etc.). Thanks so much for suggesting it, David, because now things are beginning to click together. I recently found Goergina's aunt, Ann Perryman, working as a cook in West Derby in the 1881 census. In 1861 Ann Perryman was the licensed victualler at the Mitre Tavern, Alverstoke, and Georgina's family were living at the tavern. By 1871 Georgina was a bar maid at the Mitre and Ann had moved into private service as a cook for a family in Portsea. By 1881 Ann's in West Derby cooking at a parsonage. Georgina could have gone to West Derby to work a job Ann got for her and married there, ending up back in Portsmouth harbor for the 1881 census. Looks like I may have to break down and buy a marriage certificate for this one. Is there any place I can check to see whether John Byrne or Georgina Byrne are in India between 1882 and 1891? Her son, Reginald J. Byrne (born about 1883), is in England in 1891 and 1901, living first with Georgina's parents (1891), then Georgina's sister and husband (1901). Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon

Thanks Edna and David -- I had checked the ShipsList site and she didn't appear on the list for the Crcodile. Perhaps I misread the census pages previous to the one with Georgina on it and got the wrong ship name. The photocopy I have here gives the reference as RG11/5633/16, pg.19. Georgina Byrne appears on line 19, married, 25, right to be my relative. Could someone with access to the 1881 census check to see if this is really the Crocodile? Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon On Jan 20, 2007, at 11:23 AM, David Parker wrote: > HMS CROCODILE was an "Indian Troopship" used to transport > British troops from Britain to India and back. The 1881 census > describes her as "at sea or in a foreign port". In addition to > her naval crew she was transporting members of the military- RMLI, > RA and a number of foot regiments - and government employees She > was presumably on route to India, as the passengers include members > of the 62nd and other Regiments which were in 1881 stationed in > India. It is obvious that some of the women and children on board > are the families of these men. So I have doubts if Georgina BYRNE > is a naval wife. > > > > However these are the accommodation arrangements on HMS Crocodile. > > > > Wives with babies lived on the deck below the saloon and their part > of the ship was called the "Nursery". > > Single women lived on the same deck but in an easily segregated > area named "The Dovecot". > > Unmarried subalterns lived below the waterline in "The Pandemonium". > > The NCO's and men were even lower but they had the benefit of the > daily naval rum ration. > > > > The CROCODILE was reputed to have the best food of the Indian Troop > Ships.. It was however, both slow and increasingly overcrowded as > the numbers crept up to 1800 a voyage. > > > > David . > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > > >> Hello List, >> >> Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for >> wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, >> the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census >> apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS >> Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the >> HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison >> ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from >> 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a >> troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not >> sidelined as a prison hulk. >> >> Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't >> emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in >> 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, >> pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who >> was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she >> doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her >> death. >> >> Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would >> be most welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pam Perryman >> Eugene, Oregon >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAM- >> [email protected] with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >> the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-HAM- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

HMS CROCODILE was an "Indian Troopship" used to transport British troops from Britain to India and back. The 1881 census describes her as "at sea or in a foreign port". In addition to her naval crew she was transporting members of the military- RMLI, RA and a number of foot regiments - and government employees She was presumably on route to India, as the passengers include members of the 62nd and other Regiments which were in 1881 stationed in India. It is obvious that some of the women and children on board are the families of these men. So I have doubts if Georgina BYRNE is a naval wife. However these are the accommodation arrangements on HMS Crocodile. Wives with babies lived on the deck below the saloon and their part of the ship was called the "Nursery". Single women lived on the same deck but in an easily segregated area named "The Dovecot". Unmarried subalterns lived below the waterline in "The Pandemonium". The NCO's and men were even lower but they had the benefit of the daily naval rum ration. The CROCODILE was reputed to have the best food of the Indian Troop Ships.. It was however, both slow and increasingly overcrowded as the numbers crept up to 1800 a voyage. David . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile > Hello List, > > Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for > wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, > the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census > apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS > Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the > HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison > ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from > 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a > troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not > sidelined as a prison hulk. > > Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't > emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in > 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, > pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who > was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she > doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. > > Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would > be most welcome! > > Thanks, > > Pam Perryman > Eugene, Oregon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

An interesting site through Nottingham University ~ http://longford.nottingham.ac.uk/spotlight/story003/page9.asp Edna - Ottawa

Did you try TheShips-L: http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/Crocodile1.htm ---- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Perryman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] HMS Crocodile Hello List, Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not sidelined as a prison hulk. Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would be most welcome! Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello List, Does anyone have information about troopships used as places for wives of naval personnel to live? I have found Georgina Nelson Byrne, the daughter of a sister of a great grandfather, in the 1881 census apparently married to one Michael Byrne. He is serving on the HMS Hector (probably an ordinary seaman), and she's recorded aboard the HMS Crocodile. It occurred to me that she could also be on a prison ship, but I googled the Crocodile and found the one that existed from 1867 to 1894, even a nice picture at the Maritime Museum -- it was a troopship and looks like it was in continuous service as such, not sidelined as a prison hulk. Were there arrangements for wives to live on ships? She wasn't emigrating; she stayed in England. I think it is her death I found in 1888, J/A/S qtr. St. Saviour, Southwark, London, Surrey. Vol. 1d, pg. 5. The age, 34, matches. She had a son, Reginald J., in 1883 who was living with Georgina's parents in the 1891 census, and she doesn't appear in that census, so it looks like that would be her death. Any info. that would shed some light on the 1881 census entry would be most welcome! Thanks, Pam Perryman Eugene, Oregon

Hello I have recently made a website to show my family history research. I am looking to find more links. If anyone finds anything interesting within the site please contact me. You can use this link to reach the site. www.robsfamilyhistory.co.uk <http://www.robsfamilyhistory.co.uk/> Thanks Rob Waterhouse