Hi all The whole point is that the enumerators despite having set instructions as to how to separate households often failed to do so and so we would add that it is not possible to say a census is unambiguous. Given that the image we are all viewing (except Jon for obvious reasons) *IS* a transcript completed by the enumerator from the individual sheets completed by the householders, there is plenty of room for error. BTW Ian, the age of Rebecca is 60 not 50. Regards Linda & Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Thirlwell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Fw: 1841 census entry help please > Jenny, > the problem with the 1841 census is the difficulty of knowing what any > relationship may be between individuals even in the same household. I > recently had a 2-year old I thought was the daughter of the assumed head > of the family, only to find her in a later census as his grand-daughter, > and in another census as the neice of one of his other children. I still > don't know who her parents were, though fortunately she was born after > the introduction of civil registration so a birth certificate may be > available. > Without any other evidence one can't draw any conclusion regarding > relationships between the inhabitants of the two houses in the census > under discussion. > BTW I was looking at the images not a transcription and the separation > between houses and households according to the enumerator's marks is > unambiguous. It is impossible to say without knowledge from elsewhere > regarding the people involved if they are connected in any way. > Cheers, > Ian > > > Jenny M Benson wrote: >> Ian Thirlwell wrote >> >>> But there's a double dash between Eliza Stevens (NB not Hevens) and >>> Mary Blackman plus a separate 1 for occupied house. Mary and Susan are >>> not in the same house as Eliza and the previous individuals. The >>> previous house is occupied from Rebecca Willie down to Eliza Stevens, >>> as indicated by the double dashes and occupied house indicators. >>> >> >> I take your point, but I think in this particular instance it's very >> difficult to be sure exactly what the arrangement was. It would >> certainly be very usual to find a family of Independent Means with >> living-in Servants, and *perhaps* a little less usual to find 3 >> unrelated people, all Servants, living together. >> >> I do think the OP should try and get a look at the image and form >> his/her own opinion. I just offered an opinion. >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny M Benson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Fw: 1841 census entry help please > I do think the OP should try and get a look at the image and form > his/her own opinion. I just offered an opinion. "OP"......? Please excuse my ignorance, but what's "OP"? In case it's referring to me, other person, original person, etc, being totally blind I wish I could look at the image and make my own mind up. But, as I can't, that's why I asked the list for help with this particular census entry. Seeing as Susan's age was more or less right, maybe 1 or 2 years too young, I couldn't see a 12 or 13 year old being in a household on her own which she appears to be going by ancestry's transcription. Thanks Jenny and Ian for your replies on this, regards, JOn

Jenny, the problem with the 1841 census is the difficulty of knowing what any relationship may be between individuals even in the same household. I recently had a 2-year old I thought was the daughter of the assumed head of the family, only to find her in a later census as his grand-daughter, and in another census as the neice of one of his other children. I still don't know who her parents were, though fortunately she was born after the introduction of civil registration so a birth certificate may be available. Without any other evidence one can't draw any conclusion regarding relationships between the inhabitants of the two houses in the census under discussion. BTW I was looking at the images not a transcription and the separation between houses and households according to the enumerator's marks is unambiguous. It is impossible to say without knowledge from elsewhere regarding the people involved if they are connected in any way. Cheers, Ian Jenny M Benson wrote: > Ian Thirlwell wrote > >> But there's a double dash between Eliza Stevens (NB not Hevens) and >> Mary Blackman plus a separate 1 for occupied house. Mary and Susan are >> not in the same house as Eliza and the previous individuals. The >> previous house is occupied from Rebecca Willie down to Eliza Stevens, >> as indicated by the double dashes and occupied house indicators. >> > > I take your point, but I think in this particular instance it's very > difficult to be sure exactly what the arrangement was. It would > certainly be very usual to find a family of Independent Means with > living-in Servants, and *perhaps* a little less usual to find 3 > unrelated people, all Servants, living together. > > I do think the OP should try and get a look at the image and form > his/her own opinion. I just offered an opinion. >

Ian Thirlwell wrote >But there's a double dash between Eliza Stevens (NB not Hevens) and >Mary Blackman plus a separate 1 for occupied house. Mary and Susan are >not in the same house as Eliza and the previous individuals. The >previous house is occupied from Rebecca Willie down to Eliza Stevens, >as indicated by the double dashes and occupied house indicators. I take your point, but I think in this particular instance it's very difficult to be sure exactly what the arrangement was. It would certainly be very usual to find a family of Independent Means with living-in Servants, and *perhaps* a little less usual to find 3 unrelated people, all Servants, living together. I do think the OP should try and get a look at the image and form his/her own opinion. I just offered an opinion. -- Jenny M Benson

But there's a double dash between Eliza Stevens (NB not Hevens) and Mary Blackman plus a separate 1 for occupied house. Mary and Susan are not in the same house as Eliza and the previous individuals. The previous house is occupied from Rebecca Willie down to Eliza Stevens, as indicated by the double dashes and occupied house indicators. Cheers, Ian Jenny M Benson wrote: > Ian Thirlwell wrote > >> she's at the same address, in Bury Road, as a Mary Blackman, whose age >> is given as 40 and who is a female servant. These two are within the >> same pair of double dashes in the enumerator's book, so in the same >> house, and are separated by a single dash, so in different households. >> > > I have often found that members of the same household, where not of the > same family, are often separated by the single dash in the 1841 Census. > > In this case, looking at how the enumerator has marked "do" for each > following household in Bury Road, at how he has indicated "1" for each > occupied house and at the fact that there is no double dash at the foot > of the previous page, I believe that the complete household comprised 6 > people, 3 of whom are on the previous page: > > Rebecca Willie, 50, Independent > Isabella Powney, 25, Independent > Isabella Eliza Powney, 2 > Eliza Hevens, 24, Female Servant > Mary Blackman, 40, Female Servant > Susan Johnson, 12 > > It's not unreasonable to suppose that the first 3 are Grandmother, > Mother and Daughter and it's quite probable that Susan was also a > servant. >

Ian Thirlwell wrote >she's at the same address, in Bury Road, as a Mary Blackman, whose age >is given as 40 and who is a female servant. These two are within the >same pair of double dashes in the enumerator's book, so in the same >house, and are separated by a single dash, so in different households. I have often found that members of the same household, where not of the same family, are often separated by the single dash in the 1841 Census. In this case, looking at how the enumerator has marked "do" for each following household in Bury Road, at how he has indicated "1" for each occupied house and at the fact that there is no double dash at the foot of the previous page, I believe that the complete household comprised 6 people, 3 of whom are on the previous page: Rebecca Willie, 50, Independent Isabella Powney, 25, Independent Isabella Eliza Powney, 2 Eliza Hevens, 24, Female Servant Mary Blackman, 40, Female Servant Susan Johnson, 12 It's not unreasonable to suppose that the first 3 are Grandmother, Mother and Daughter and it's quite probable that Susan was also a servant. -- Jenny M Benson

Jon, she's at the same address, in Bury Road, as a Mary Blackman, whose age is given as 40 and who is a female servant. These two are within the same pair of double dashes in the enumerator's book, so in the same house, and are separated by a single dash, so in different households. Cheers, Ian jonnixey.fh wrote: > Oopse sorry sent from the wrong Email account. > > Jon > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:36 PM > Subject: 1841 census entry help please > > > Hi everyone, > > I have a Susan Johnson at Alverstoke in the 1841 census, she is aged 12, but appears to be on her own according to the transcript. Could someone please check the image for me to see which household she is actually with? > > Many thanks, Jon > > 1841 > Name: Susan Johnson > Age: 12 > Estimated birth year: abt 1829 > Gender: Female > Where born: Hampshire, England > Civil parish: Alverstoke > Hundred: Meon Stoke (Upper Half) > County/Island: Hampshire > Country: England > Source information: HO107/388/3 > Registration district: Alverstoke > Sub-registration district: Alverstoke > ED, institution, or vessel: 13 > Folio: 20 > Page: 9 > Line number: 3 > GSU Number: 288794 >

Oopse sorry sent from the wrong Email account. Jon ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:36 PM Subject: 1841 census entry help please Hi everyone, I have a Susan Johnson at Alverstoke in the 1841 census, she is aged 12, but appears to be on her own according to the transcript. Could someone please check the image for me to see which household she is actually with? Many thanks, Jon 1841 Name: Susan Johnson Age: 12 Estimated birth year: abt 1829 Gender: Female Where born: Hampshire, England Civil parish: Alverstoke Hundred: Meon Stoke (Upper Half) County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Source information: HO107/388/3 Registration district: Alverstoke Sub-registration district: Alverstoke ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Folio: 20 Page: 9 Line number: 3 GSU Number: 288794

Hi Seamus, Yes it must be repairable. I had a similar problem with a Singer sewing Machine 80 yrs old and that drive band for that was still available at the local sewing machine shop. Thats working now so I have got to look around. Mike

Thanks to everyone for their help. Particularly Sarah and Margaret - I have him at last! Thanks again Lindi -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Margaret Sent: 25 February 2007 16:57 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] E Spiller Photographer Hi Lindy, if you look on the historicaldirectories.org website there is a Kelly's Directory for Hampshire dated 1898 which has the photographer, Edward Spiller listed at the address in Lake Road. Just put Spiller into the search box. He was not there in 1911. Regards Margaret ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lindy, if you look on the historicaldirectories.org website there is a Kelly's Directory for Hampshire dated 1898 which has the photographer, Edward Spiller listed at the address in Lake Road. Just put Spiller into the search box. He was not there in 1911. Regards Margaret

Good afternoon, I am new to this list as most of my research takes place in Yorkshire and Wakefield in particular. However I have a photograph taken by E SPILLER, 107 Lake Road, Portsmouth which I believe to be either my Great Uncle or my Gt, Gt, Grandfather. Would anyone have a local directory from say, 1900 (ish) and be able to check when this photographer was working? Alternatively, does anyone know where I might find a suitable directory please. Fingers crossed Lindi Best Wishes Lindy Groom (Craven) Researching Cravens in Wakefield and surrounding area

A very useful website for Isle of Wight BMD's Isle of Wight family history society.http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/index.htm. The Isle of Wight BMD site gives maiden name of mother and/or previous name/s if married before very useful for double checking as another source and double checking for censuses etc. Also please note the following taken from the Isle of Wight record Office site http://www.iwight.com/library/record_office/default.asp ISLE OF WIGHT RECORD OFFICE The County Record Office will be closed from 5th to the 8th March inclusive to allow staff to transfer the most frequently used items from the Local Collection to the main Record Office building. The office will be open as usual on Friday 9th March Linda & Tony

Hi All, A couple of years ago a local photographic dealer in Fareham told me they could still get spares for Eumig projectors. They had a new projector bulb in stock. You can copy old family cine film at home if you have a modern video camera or can borrow one. The secret is to use a darkened room and set the video camera up on a tripod on the same level as the cine projector. Then zoom in the video camera on the screen and record the projected image running on the screen. The results match the professional dealers who offer this service - at great expense. Best of luck Peter

Try Richard Heaton's site at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dutillieul/index.html Although a Wiltshire dominance, there are stories about Hampshire. Use the Freefind search box for best results (at top of page) Linda & Tony -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 24 February 2007 15:19 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] Historical newspapers online? Does anyone know of a site similar to Historical directories that deals with newspapers and their articles? Thanks Sarah ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers I am new to this list and hope that someone may be able to help. My Great-uncle, Victor Arthur Barker married Bertha Winifred Howis in 1910 in Penzance. They had a son called Arthur Maxwell Barker, who was born in Penzance on 02 Jun 1911. Victor fought and died during WWI and Bertha remarried to a Richard H Smale towards the end of 1918. I believe that Bertha and Richard moved to Portsmouth. I do not know much about my Great Uncle and am hoping to find a descendant of his son Arthur or his wife, Bertha in the hope of finding out further information about him. Is there anyone out there who knows anything about any of these people? Here's hoping. Regards Debbie (Brisbane, Australia)

Hi Mike. Is the projector not repairable ? You said the drive band had karked it, Can it be replaced ? The film can be cut & rejoined easily enough. I remember many years ago an old wood lathe of mine, decided to shred the small drive band. At the time I couldn't get a replacement so, used a small pump band from a Hoover washing machine. Worked fine for years until I sold it. Seamus....(tout á fait chevalier) System protected by system mechanics/Kaspersky -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, 24 February 2007 7:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] COPYING Hi Lynne, Thanks for that. I have a scanner/printer / copier which the children gave me for Christmas which I am getting used to. Its an HP photosmart all in one! Very fond memories of a visit to Halifax in 1975 when we spent three weeks in the Naval Base self maintenance when I was serving on HMS Hermes as the Captains Secretary. Hope that Peggy's Cove remains unspoilt. Mike ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know of a site similar to Historical directories that deals with newspapers and their articles? Thanks Sarah

Hi Mike, You can also buy a scanner, relatively cheaply, that will scan in slides and negatives, as well as prints. I have one and have been able to print (from my computer) negatives for which I have never seen the prints. (I was so cute when I was young!) Lynne - snowy Halifax. Quoting Edna <[email protected]>: > Hi, There are companies that will transfer slides, photos, etc. but you > will have to search for them. > Try the Yellow Pages in your phone book. > > Edna - sunny Ottawa > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 3:01 PM > Subject: [PORTSMOUTH-GOSPORT] COPYING > > > Hi Everyone, > > I am sure some of you are suffering from the same dilemma as myself. > Foillowing the technogy growth of the last hundred years I have a mass of > black and > white photos (with their negatives in some cases) coloured slides, super 8 > cine film, video film etc all of which I would like to convert to digital > and > store on my computer. > > This was brought home to me yesterday when I recovered the cine projector > from the archival attic to run through some excellent super 8 cine of life > at > sea in the good ship Andromeda prior to the reunion in Torquay this weekend. > Hardly had I started when the film slowed down and the heat from the lamp > quickly burnt a hole in that frame. A quick examination revealed that the > rubber > band driving the mechanism had decided to give up the ghost after nearly > forty > years of neglect! So I now have 3000ft of cine that will never be seen > again! OK I have done a quick search on the internet but only found a > spare lamp > so far. > > Is there any way of transferring slides, cine and video to digital/computer > without complex and expensive kit? > > Mike > Waterlooville > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lynne, Thanks for that. I have a scanner/printer / copier which the children gave me for Christmas which I am getting used to. Its an HP photosmart all in one! Very fond memories of a visit to Halifax in 1975 when we spent three weeks in the Naval Base self maintenance when I was serving on HMS Hermes as the Captains Secretary. Hope that Peggy's Cove remains unspoilt. Mike