Hi, all We have the example of GULLY and GULWELL. GULWELL seems to have grown out of GULLY and at times (late 18c) one family was swapping from one to the other. Some were baptised GULWELL and reverted to GULLY, some the other way. GULWELL has consolidated and is particular to Gloucestershire, so that everyone with that name had their origins in that county. Was the original GULWELLl a result of bastardy? I don't think so - it goes back to mid 1500s and GULLY to 12c. I suspect family feuding might be more relevant, suggest as disputes about the correct name. Same thing happened with HOPES, which i believe to be a variant of HOPE that started in the Bitton area. Later families seemed to want to revert to HOPE and one of those were to be the ancestors of Bob HOPE. He should have been HOPES but his gf decided to settle on HOPE. Although the gf was born without a named father (which would have been ENGLISH) there was already some uncertainty in the Corston, Som., branch of HOPES as to H! OPES or HOPE; some switched more than once so they were 'aka'. The gf decided to be HOPE. I wish I knew why! Cheers Brian Morgan Richard Teagle <r.teagle@wales.ac.uk> wrote: Hi Sue and others - Bastardy is probably the cause in many cases, but among my JACOB ancesters from N Wilts in 1600s/1700s I came across a declaration in a Will that where there was no male heir to carry on the JACOB name, the eldest son of the eldest daughter was to take the surname JACOB, and if the eldest daughter had no sons it was to the the eldest son of the second born daughter and so on. Fortunately his only son survived him, otherwise I could see a potential problem for us genealogists in the future, but have been wondering if situations such as this occurred in other families and could be another possible explanation for the two surnames separated by "alias". Was one the birth surname and the other the acquired surname? Richard ----Original Message----- From: SSiss165@aol.com [mailto:SSiss165@aol.com] Sent: 15 April 2005 10:18 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] MARTEN als WATTS and sim. names Just an idle thought ....... and please shoot me down in flames if need be. I've been puzzling about the incidence of 'als' names - especially as some examples seem to continue for several generations. We have Carole's example of MARTEN als WATTS. In the Oldbury registers we have ALLENE als CHAPPE and I seem to recall seeing *** als POWELL somewhere along the line. Some 'one off' instances appear to result from bastardy. I can't help wondering whether some other instances may just be early examples of double barrelled names, e.g. a MARTEN married a WATTS and combined the surname to be MARTIN-WATTS. This would explain why the combined name survived for several generations - perhaps only ceasing when there were no males to carry it forward to the next generation. What do you think? Sue ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Visit Robert Millard's local and family history web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx Cyflogydd Cyfleoedd Cyfartal / An Equal Opportunities Employer::::: Mae cynnwys yr e-bost hwn wedi ei fwriadu ar gyfer y person y'i cyfeiriwyd ato yn unig. Mae'r e-bost yn cynnwys gwybodaeth a allai fod yn gyfrinachol ac a allai fod yn freiniol. Os nad chi yw'r person a enwir (neu os nad ydych wedi'ch awdurdodi i dderbyn ar ran y person a enwir) ni chewch ei gopïo na'i ddefnyddio, na'i ddatgelu i unrhyw berson arall. Os ydych wedi ei dderbyn mewn camgymeriad, gofynnir i chi ein hysbysu ar unwaith ac yna'i ddileu. Mae unrhyw farn neu safbwynt a gyflwynir yn yr e-bost hwn yn eiddo i'r awdur yn unig ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli barn na safbwynt Prifysgol Cymru. Mae gan Brifysgol Cymru bolisi dwyiethrwydd. Mae croeso i chi ohebu â'r Brifysgol yn y Gymraeg neu'r Saesneg, ac fe'ch gwahoddir i roi gwybod i'r Brifysgol ym mha iaith yr hoffech ohebu yn y dyfodol. ////////// The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. The email contains information which may be confidential and which may also be privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. A ny views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Wales. The University of Wales has a bilingual policy. You are welcome to correspond with the University either in Welsh or in English and you are invited to let the University know in which language you wish to correspond in future. ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Visit Robert Millard's local and family history web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Yes, I don't know why GULWELL was so popular in Hawkesbury. It was interesting to read that some names may have been like hyphenated names, but I don't think GULLY GULWELL would work. So must be a matter of choosing which name they wanted to use that day. Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: "BRIAN MORGAN" <brian.morgan9@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:53 PM Subject: [HWK] Alias names GULLY/GULWELL/HOPE/HOPES > Hi, all > We have the example of GULLY and GULWELL. GULWELL seems to have grown out > of GULLY and at times (late 18c) one family was swapping from one to the > other. Some were baptised GULWELL and reverted to GULLY, some the other > way. GULWELL has consolidated and is particular to Gloucestershire, so > that everyone with that name had their origins in that county. Was the > original GULWELLl a result of bastardy? I don't think so - it goes back to > mid 1500s and GULLY to 12c. I suspect family feuding might be more > relevant, suggest as disputes about the correct name. Same thing happened > with HOPES, which i believe to be a variant of HOPE that started in the > Bitton area. Later families seemed to want to revert to HOPE and one of > those were to be the ancestors of Bob HOPE. He should have been HOPES but > his gf decided to settle on HOPE. Although the gf was born without a named > father (which would have been ENGLISH) there was already some uncertainty > in the Corston, Som., branch of HOPES as to H! > OPES or > HOPE; some switched more than once so they were 'aka'. The gf decided to > be HOPE. I wish I knew why! > Cheers > Brian Morgan > > Richard Teagle <r.teagle@wales.ac.uk> wrote: > > Hi Sue and others > > - Bastardy is probably the cause in many cases, but among my JACOB > ancesters from N Wilts in 1600s/1700s I came across a declaration in a > Will that where there was no male heir to carry on the JACOB name, the > eldest son of the eldest daughter was to take the surname JACOB, and if > the eldest daughter had no sons it was to the the eldest son of the second > born daughter and so on. Fortunately his only son survived him, otherwise > I could see a potential problem for us genealogists in the future, but > have been wondering if situations such as this occurred in other families > and could be another possible explanation for the two surnames separated > by "alias". Was one the birth surname and the other the acquired surname? > > Richard > > ----Original Message----- > From: SSiss165@aol.com [mailto:SSiss165@aol.com] > Sent: 15 April 2005 10:18 > To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HWK] MARTEN als WATTS and sim. names > > > Just an idle thought ....... and please shoot me down in flames if need > be. > > I've been puzzling about the incidence of 'als' names - especially as some > examples seem to continue for several generations. We have Carole's > example > of MARTEN als WATTS. In the Oldbury registers we have ALLENE als CHAPPE > and I > seem to recall seeing *** als POWELL somewhere along the line. > > Some 'one off' instances appear to result from bastardy. I can't help > wondering whether some other instances may just be early examples of > double > barrelled names, e.g. a MARTEN married a WATTS and combined the surname to > be > MARTIN-WATTS. This would explain why the combined name survived for > several > generations - perhaps only ceasing when there were no males to carry it > forward to > the next generation. > > What do you think? > > Sue > > > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Visit Robert Millard's local and family history web pages at > http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > Cyflogydd Cyfleoedd Cyfartal / An Equal Opportunities Employer::::: > Mae cynnwys yr e-bost hwn wedi ei fwriadu ar gyfer y person y'i cyfeiriwyd > ato yn unig. > Mae'r e-bost yn cynnwys gwybodaeth a allai fod yn gyfrinachol ac a allai > fod yn freiniol. > Os nad chi yw'r person a enwir (neu os nad ydych wedi'ch awdurdodi i > dderbyn ar ran y person a enwir) ni chewch ei gopïo na'i ddefnyddio, na'i > ddatgelu i unrhyw berson arall. > Os ydych wedi ei dderbyn mewn camgymeriad, gofynnir i chi ein hysbysu ar > unwaith ac yna'i ddileu. > Mae unrhyw farn neu safbwynt a gyflwynir yn yr e-bost hwn yn eiddo i'r > awdur yn unig ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli barn na safbwynt > Prifysgol Cymru. > Mae gan Brifysgol Cymru bolisi dwyiethrwydd. > Mae croeso i chi ohebu â'r Brifysgol yn y Gymraeg neu'r Saesneg, ac fe'ch > gwahoddir i roi gwybod i'r Brifysgol ym mha iaith yr hoffech ohebu yn y > dyfodol. ////////// > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. > The email contains information which may be confidential and which may > also be privileged. > Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive for the > addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. > If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy > it. A > ny views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Wales. > The University of Wales has a bilingual policy. > You are welcome to correspond with the University either in Welsh or in > English and you are invited to let the University know in which language > you wish to correspond in future. > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Visit Robert Millard's local and family history web pages at > http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in > CAPITALS. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >