It is about time you lot heard from me. My apologies if I have been neglecting you. Have been up to my eyes in Australina paperwork and have as a result severe eye, head, neck and eveything else ache. Wallet ache too at the end of the month when the phone bills start arriving. Anyway to business - Hi Robert hope you and yours are well. Each time I phone your fax kicks in. Isaac according to the 51 census is not a youngster. So it is possible that it is he that married Ann MILLS at Hawkesbury on the 16th of June 1821. The next marriage is in 1849 at Hawkesbury so hopefully this will give you her fathers name. Next up Eliza (boy I have had fun with this lot this afternoon). The online IGI under the Hawkesbury "C" batch number gives a christening of the 14th Feb 1836 as a child of Isaac and Elizabeth GINGELL. Now I have a feeling from memory that the vicar at Hawkesbury at the time was in the habit of putting the mothers maiden name in the register. Fortunately Eliza was fairly easy to find in 1881 where she was living with her husband George and their children at Hainses, (Berkeley) Hamfallow (and before you ask I've no idea where that is). The online IGI gives the marriage date as 22nd February 1860 at Berkeley. That marriage certificate will of course give you her dad's name (hopefully though he is dead by then he won't just be recorded as deceased). So its become a job of tracking down an Isaac GINGELL on the death registers and with a bit of luck he will have survived into the summer of 37 when registration came in. More parish register searchers after that looking for the marriage. Maybe his tombstone if there is one will have a clue. Now this is where my brain really starts to wake up......Is Jane GINGELL really a GINGELL ? Is she perhaps Jane CHAPPELL and a niece or other relative of some sort to Isaac CHAPPELL. There is an Jane CHAPPELL christened in 1838 who isn't at home with her parents in 1851. I wonder if this could be one of Gordon's transcription errros. We know there are some. It could be a enumerators error. Or something else. Hope all this gives you some clues Robert. Happy Hunting Geoffro The Pond Dipper