Carole Thanks for that further information. It may have solved one puzzle, but it leaves similar puzzles of who were Elizabeth Toghill and Mary Ann Toghill. My only suggestion for Elizabeth is that she was Jane's sister and the widow of Stephen Toghill. This means that she was born Elizabeth WATTS, who was baptised 30th March 1795 at Hawkesbury and married Stephen at Hawkesbury on 3rd May 1817. Stephen died at the Horse Shoe Inn, Downend on 18th June 1833. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find Elizabeth or Henry CROOM in the 1851 census for Bristol or Gloucestershire, so I cannot chcek her age. I have no idea who the Mary Ann Toghill was who married John Howell. Again, I have not been able to trace them in the 1851 census. The only Mary Howell is a 72 year old pauper widow living at Hawkesbury, who seems an unlikely candidate. Any suggestions would be most welcome. I do not have a birth date for Jane Toghill, although in the 1861 census she is 29, indicating 1832, but in 1881 she is 47. Her birthplace is shown in 1861 as being Nailsworth, which links with the birth of her brother Isaac two yaers later at Horsley. Her parents were married at Horsley in 1822, but were elsewhere between then and 1834. Many of these Toghills seem to be missing from the 1851 census. Someone who is there is Robert Toghill Watt, age 55, Gentleman, born Dyrham, living at West littleton as brother-in-law with Thomas Gregg, his wife Sophia and their children. Do you know anything about him? Bob ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: anthony sharp [mailto:[email protected]] ¦Sent: 17 December 2003 20:36 ¦To: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence ¦Cc: [email protected]; Kay Buchanan ¦Subject: WATTS, TOGHILL ¦ ¦ ¦Hello Bob, ¦I thought I was confused before! ¦I noticed the 2 WATTS/TOGHILL marriages on the BVRI but never thought they ¦were connected. Silly me! ¦ ¦The 2 witnesses were also TOGHILLs. Elizabeth TOGHILL married ¦Henry CROOM 27 ¦Oct 1834 Temple Bristol Mary Ann TOGHILL married John HOWELLS 22 Mar 1846 ¦St Philip & St Jacob Bristol. The fathers for the latter were John ¦HOWELLS & ¦Stephen TOGHILL.(Both marriages from the BVRI) ¦ ¦Do you have a birth date for Jane TOGHILL daughter of Thomas & Jane (nee ¦WATTS) please?. I don't have a record of her. I know we have speculated on ¦who George WATTS married before when we were trying to find the connection ¦with Rose COOPER age 10 who was staying with George WATTS & his ¦wife Jane on ¦the 1861 census. jane's surname then was not known. ¦ ¦Looks as if another little puzzle may be solved (fingers crossed). ¦ ¦Many thanks ¦Carole ¦ ¦----- Original Message ----- ¦From: "R.P. & A.L.Lawrence" <[email protected]> ¦To: <[email protected]> ¦Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:17 PM ¦Subject: [HWK] WATTS, TOGHILL ¦ ¦ ¦> Especially for Carole, who will like this. ¦> ¦> I went to Bristol Record Office, and checked two TOGHILL ¦marriages. Here ¦> are the details: ¦> ¦> 4th March 1851 St Philip and St Jacob ¦> Daniel WATTS, of full age, bachelor, Dealer of St Philips, father Daniel ¦> WATTS, Dealer ¦> married ¦> Jane TOGHILL, of full age, widow, of St Philips, Father Hugh ¦WATTS, Farmer ¦> Marriage by banns. Witnesses were Elizabeth Croom and Henry Naish. Henry ¦> Naish was a witness of most weddings at this church at this time. ¦> ¦> Jane was the daughter of Hugh WATTS and Betty JACKSON. She previously ¦> married Thomas TOGHILL at Horsley in 1822. Jane and Daniel were first ¦> cousins. ¦> ¦> ¦> 26th April 1856 St Michael on the Mount ¦> George WATTS, of full age, bachelor, mason of Griffin Lane. ¦Father Thomas ¦> WATTS, Farmer ¦> married ¦> Jane TOGHILL, of full age, spinster of Old Park. Father Thomas TOGHILL, ¦> Farmer ¦> Marriage by banns. Witnesses were W.T.Sladen and Mary Ann Howells. ¦> W.T.Sladen was a witness at most weddings at this church at this time. ¦> Jane and George were first cousins once removed ¦> ¦> The second Jane TOGHILL was the daughter of the first Jane. Daniel WATTS ¦and ¦> George WATTS were first cousins. ¦> ¦> Other relationships are too complicated to think about until after ¦> Christmas. ¦> ¦> It is interesting that the addresses and occupations differ from those in ¦> the census. Jane and Daniel were in Bristol on 4th March 1851, but back ¦> living in Oldbury for the census on 30th March. He was a farmer by then. ¦> ¦> Bob Lawrence ¦> ¦> ************************************** ¦> R.P.& A.L.Lawrence ¦> The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, ¦> Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. ¦> Phone: 0117 9504314 ¦> ************************************** ¦> ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦