Hi Carole We are having a busy evening packing up old Dinky Toys which we have sold on e-bay, so I have not had a real chance to examine the information from Kay Buchanan. However, it all looks good to me, and is a sparkling example of what you can find out in a short space of time from online sources. The missing item seems to be the death of Edward Toghill, but I have found one in FamilyRelatives.org. Edward Toghill, age 23, died in Bath R.D. March quarter 1888. This is the same quarter that he was married. The reference is 5c 505. The birth of Edward George Toghill is recorded in Newport, Mon R.D. in the December quarter 1888. The reference is 11a 148. This means that Edward George never knew his father. We must all be grateful that Carole spends her time in cemeteries. Bob ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] ¦Sent: 19 May 2005 21:55 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL again ¦ ¦ ¦Hello again to all TOGHILL fans ¦ ¦I have some more information on Edward George Toghill died 20 Nov 1986 ¦aged 98 and his wife Kazie who were buried at Llandaff, Cardiff? ¦ ¦All of this detective work has been done by Kay who has concluded that ¦Edward George TOGHILL is another descendant of Moses TOGHILL and Mary ¦Ann CRYER. Perhaps Louise can confirm this? ¦ ¦Here are Kay's 3 emails: ¦ ¦If nobody has replied to your ‘lost notice’ for Edward George TOGHILL ¦who died 20/11/1986 I think that I may have some clues as to his ¦identity. ¦ ¦In the 1891 Census Ash Cottage Magor Monmouth: ¦James WOOD Head 1829 Redwick Mon Carpenter ¦Margaret WOOD Wife 1846 Bishton ¦Florence WOOD Dau 1875 Magor Mon ¦Kate WOOD Dau 1878 Magor Mon ¦James L WOOD Son 1881 Magor Mon ¦Emily PITT Dau 1868 M Magor Mon ¦Emily May PITT G Dau 1882 Magor Mon ¦Edward G TOGHILL G Son 1889 Magor Mon ¦ ¦In 1901 Census Prince Street Newport. ¦John JOHN Head 1866 Towe Cardiganshire ¦Elizabeth JOHN Wife 1864 Magor Mon ¦William JOHN Son 1899 Newport ¦Edward TOGHILL Stepson 1888 Magor Mon. ¦ ¦Elizabeth would be the mother of Edward G TOGHILL and would be a ¦daughter of James WOOD and Margaret. ¦ ¦In the 1891 Census at Church Farm, Redwick Mon ¦Elizabeth TOGHILL 1865 Magor Mon. Widow, Servant ¦ ¦In 1881 Census at Llanvrechva House, Lower Llanvrechva Mon Elizabeth ¦WOOD 1864 Magor Mon Single Servant ¦ ¦In 1871 Census Elizabeth WOOD is recorded as a daughter of James WOOD ¦and Margaret ¦ ¦There is a marriage of Edward TOGHILL to Elizabeth WOOD Mar Q 1888 Bath ¦5c 860. ¦ ¦In the 1881 Census at Pritchards Farm Cold Ashton ¦George TOGHILL Head 1843 Cold Ashton ¦Letticia TOGHILL Wife 1835 Cold Ashton ¦Edward George TOGHILL Son 1864 Cold Ashton ¦Wm Henry TOGHILL Son 1870 Cold Ashton ¦Mary Ann TOGHILL Dau 1872 Cold Ashton ¦Thomas Worthy TOGHILL Son 1876 Cold Ashton. ¦ ¦I suspect that Edward George TOGHILL is the Edward TOGHILL who married ¦Elizabeth WOOD and was the father of Edward G(eorge) TOGHILL born c 1889 ¦Magor Mon and who eventually died in 1986. ¦ ¦Kay ¦-------------------------------------------- ¦Some further details regarding the missing George TOGHILL. ¦I searched the 1901 Census for ‘KAZIE’ as Given Name and came up with ¦just one entry – Kazie BRIND born 1889 Maindee Monmouthshire daughter of ¦Edwin BRIND, Haulier, at 55 Gordon Street, Newport. In the 1891 Census, ¦also at 55 Gordon Street, the BRIND Family and Hilda K BRIND 1899 ¦Maindee. I searched 1837online and found a marriage for Hilda K BRIND ¦Mar Q 1911 Newport M 11a 379 and (as the entry is prior to Spouses names ¦being ¦included) I also searched for Edward TOGHILL for the Mar Q 1911 and ¦found Edward G TOGHILL also married Mar Q 1911 Newport M 11a 379. I am ¦sure TOGHILL aficionados will be able to follow up on this and the ¦earlier details. ¦------------------------------------------------------------ ¦I have just been looking in Bob Lawrence’s database for George TOGHILL ¦born 1843 Cold Ashton according to the 1881 Census, although Bob has him ¦as born 1841. Quoting from Bob’s data base : (a)George was the son of ¦Moses TOGHILL and Mary Ann CRYER (b)George married Leticia CAMBOURNE Mar ¦Q 1869 ¦(c) There were two children born prior to the marriage, Amelia CAMBOURNE ¦(1858) and Edward George Toghill CAMBOURNE who is the son Edward George ¦TOGHILL in the 1881 Census. ¦ ¦Whilst Bob has no further details for Edward George TOGHILL I am ¦confident that the information I have sent to you applies to this ¦person. ¦ ¦----------------------------------- ¦ ¦Any comments anyone? ¦ ¦Carole ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦-- ¦No virus found in this outgoing message. ¦Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ¦Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== ¦Look out for Get Togethers at The Beaufort: Next one is Sat 7th ¦May and then Sun 16th July. Contact Robert via his web site to book lunch. ¦ ¦============================== ¦Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the ¦areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. ¦Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx ¦ ¦ ¦

Hello again to all TOGHILL fans I have some more information on Edward George Toghill died 20 Nov 1986 aged 98 and his wife Kazie who were buried at Llandaff, Cardiff? All of this detective work has been done by Kay who has concluded that Edward George TOGHILL is another descendant of Moses TOGHILL and Mary Ann CRYER. Perhaps Louise can confirm this? Here are Kay's 3 emails: If nobody has replied to your ‘lost notice’ for Edward George TOGHILL who died 20/11/1986 I think that I may have some clues as to his identity. In the 1891 Census Ash Cottage Magor Monmouth: James WOOD Head 1829 Redwick Mon Carpenter Margaret WOOD Wife 1846 Bishton Florence WOOD Dau 1875 Magor Mon Kate WOOD Dau 1878 Magor Mon James L WOOD Son 1881 Magor Mon Emily PITT Dau 1868 M Magor Mon Emily May PITT G Dau 1882 Magor Mon Edward G TOGHILL G Son 1889 Magor Mon In 1901 Census Prince Street Newport. John JOHN Head 1866 Towe Cardiganshire Elizabeth JOHN Wife 1864 Magor Mon William JOHN Son 1899 Newport Edward TOGHILL Stepson 1888 Magor Mon. Elizabeth would be the mother of Edward G TOGHILL and would be a daughter of James WOOD and Margaret. In the 1891 Census at Church Farm, Redwick Mon Elizabeth TOGHILL 1865 Magor Mon. Widow, Servant In 1881 Census at Llanvrechva House, Lower Llanvrechva Mon Elizabeth WOOD 1864 Magor Mon Single Servant In 1871 Census Elizabeth WOOD is recorded as a daughter of James WOOD and Margaret There is a marriage of Edward TOGHILL to Elizabeth WOOD Mar Q 1888 Bath 5c 860. In the 1881 Census at Pritchards Farm Cold Ashton George TOGHILL Head 1843 Cold Ashton Letticia TOGHILL Wife 1835 Cold Ashton Edward George TOGHILL Son 1864 Cold Ashton Wm Henry TOGHILL Son 1870 Cold Ashton Mary Ann TOGHILL Dau 1872 Cold Ashton Thomas Worthy TOGHILL Son 1876 Cold Ashton. I suspect that Edward George TOGHILL is the Edward TOGHILL who married Elizabeth WOOD and was the father of Edward G(eorge) TOGHILL born c 1889 Magor Mon and who eventually died in 1986. Kay -------------------------------------------- Some further details regarding the missing George TOGHILL. I searched the 1901 Census for ‘KAZIE’ as Given Name and came up with just one entry – Kazie BRIND born 1889 Maindee Monmouthshire daughter of Edwin BRIND, Haulier, at 55 Gordon Street, Newport. In the 1891 Census, also at 55 Gordon Street, the BRIND Family and Hilda K BRIND 1899 Maindee. I searched 1837online and found a marriage for Hilda K BRIND Mar Q 1911 Newport M 11a 379 and (as the entry is prior to Spouses names being included) I also searched for Edward TOGHILL for the Mar Q 1911 and found Edward G TOGHILL also married Mar Q 1911 Newport M 11a 379. I am sure TOGHILL aficionados will be able to follow up on this and the earlier details. ------------------------------------------------------------ I have just been looking in Bob Lawrence’s database for George TOGHILL born 1843 Cold Ashton according to the 1881 Census, although Bob has him as born 1841. Quoting from Bob’s data base : (a)George was the son of Moses TOGHILL and Mary Ann CRYER (b)George married Leticia CAMBOURNE Mar Q 1869 (c) There were two children born prior to the marriage, Amelia CAMBOURNE (1858) and Edward George Toghill CAMBOURNE who is the son Edward George TOGHILL in the 1881 Census. Whilst Bob has no further details for Edward George TOGHILL I am confident that the information I have sent to you applies to this person. ----------------------------------- Any comments anyone? Carole -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005

Robert / Jenny Don't quote me on this one because I'm not 100% certain.. I think in the context of the 1545 Subsidy the term 'in bond' would effectively be a hangover from the old feudal system. Under the feudal system a Ceorl or Villein would be a freeman but would owe sworn allegiance to the Lord of the Manor. Although free, he would owe a bond of obligation to his Lord. This usually took the form of several days labour on the Lord's fields. I believe this practice continued in modified form throughout the 1500s. I guess it would be something to do with the fact that most of the land was held by their Lordships and that the majority of farmers were leaseholders. I wonder if it was common practice to include x days unpaid service as part of the terms of the lease? I agree with Roberts ideas but I think they may apply from say, 1650 onwards, at a period when more people were in employment rather than farming for themselves. Hope this makes sense. I would like to hear any other views. It would be nice to know how it all worked. Regards Sue Sissons

Hi Jenny As I understand it (probably wrong) a person ie worker was bonded to a master for a fixed term for a fixed payment called a bond similar to an apprentice indenture, so this bonded person had therefore limited rights and was not able to seek other employment before the end of his term. I supose it was an advantage to both parties. regards Robert Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Joyce" <jenny.joyce@writeme.com> To: <ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [HWK] 1545 Subsidy for Grumbalds Ash > Hi, > > Can anyone explain these "in bond" statements to me. A subsidy roll is > basically a tax list - what it the bond bit? > > Cheers > Jenny > ----- Original Message ----- > From: SSiss165@aol.com > To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HWK] 1545 Subsidy for Grumbalds Ash > Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:41 EDT > >> >> A few snippets which may be of interest to anyone researching BOOY, >> HARDING, >> HOLBOROW, IDOLLS, LONGDEN, VENN & WATTS. >> >> Sue Sissons >> Hemel Hempstead >> >> >> >> National Archive ref: E179/114/265 >> >> 1545 subsidy roll for Grumbalds Ash >> >> Very faded - Hawkesbury Upton, Didmarton and most of Oldbury are >> unreadable. >> Haven't yet got to grips with the handwriting but a quick struggle(!!!) >> has >> revealed one or two names of possible interest. Where I am not 100% >> certain >> of the name I have placed a ?. >> >> Kilcott >> John IDOLLS in bond >> William LONGDEN in bond >> John? LONGDEN in bond >> ??? VENE in bond >> ................... and others >> >> Little Badminton >> John HOLBOROWE in bond >> Henry? HOLBOROWE in bond >> Wyllm HOLBOROWE in bond >> ................... and others >> >> Oldbury on the Hill >> largely unreadable but.. >> John WATTS?? in bond - Carole, I'm not 100% certain on this one >> Richard HARDYNGE in bond >> ................... and others >> >> Alderley >> Johan WATTE wid in bond >> ................... and others >> >> Littleton upon Severn >> John BOYES in bond >> Robert BOYES in bond >> >> >> ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== >> Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in >> CAPITALS. >> >> ============================== >> Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for >> ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Visit Robert Millard's local and family history web pages at > http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Hi TOGHILL researchers – This is one I prepared earlier 0 back in 2001 to be precise! It seems to be appropriate to resurrect it now. Only problem is, I can’t lay my hands on the “extra details” I promised!! Have you lost Edward George Toghill died 20 Nov 1986 aged 98 and his wife Kazie? I came across their graves in Llandaff, Cardiff this morning and thought somebody might like the details. Couldn't find any TOGHILLs in Glamorgan in 1881 so its not a name common in this area. Let me know if you want more details. Carole # -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005

Hi Bob, Louise and Brian Kay informs me that Ancestry.com's index shows Taff Wells in Gloucestershire but the actual page has Glamorgan. The entries initially had 'do' following the entries with Doynton Gloucestershire but faintly overwritten is Glamorgan. So half a point to Bob Lawrence for his 'typo. Furthermore, it is indexed as "LAFFS WELL" - No doubt good for a long and loud 'laff'! Kay Carole -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005

Hi, Can anyone explain these "in bond" statements to me. A subsidy roll is basically a tax list - what it the bond bit? Cheers Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: SSiss165@aol.com To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] 1545 Subsidy for Grumbalds Ash Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:41 EDT > > A few snippets which may be of interest to anyone researching BOOY, HARDING, > HOLBOROW, IDOLLS, LONGDEN, VENN & WATTS. > > Sue Sissons > Hemel Hempstead > > > > National Archive ref: E179/114/265 > > 1545 subsidy roll for Grumbalds Ash > > Very faded - Hawkesbury Upton, Didmarton and most of Oldbury are unreadable. > Haven't yet got to grips with the handwriting but a quick struggle(!!!) has > revealed one or two names of possible interest. Where I am not 100% certain > of the name I have placed a ?. > > Kilcott > John IDOLLS in bond > William LONGDEN in bond > John? LONGDEN in bond > ??? VENE in bond > ................... and others > > Little Badminton > John HOLBOROWE in bond > Henry? HOLBOROWE in bond > Wyllm HOLBOROWE in bond > ................... and others > > Oldbury on the Hill > largely unreadable but.. > John WATTS?? in bond - Carole, I'm not 100% certain on this one > Richard HARDYNGE in bond > ................... and others > > Alderley > Johan WATTE wid in bond > ................... and others > > Littleton upon Severn > John BOYES in bond > Robert BOYES in bond > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Hi, All Some basic geography here, if you don't mind me butting in! I haven't followed the trail so I don't know which 1891 census was being referred to. However Taff''s Well is situated on the river Taff, north of Cardiff. It can never have been in Gloucestershire as there is the whole of Mon still to go before we get to Gloucs. I can only suggest this was an appalling transcription of Tog Hill which is in Gloucs. I hope this helps somewhat! Cheers Brian ANTHONY SHARP <sharpafc@btinternet.com> wrote: Hi Bob I have a better excuse now! I've had another look at the 1891 Index and find that it does not include Eglwysilan, since the Index covers the Cardiff District only. Strange that Taffs Well is not included since, as you say, it's just up the road from here.... although, in 1891 it seems to have been in Gloucestershire! I can't help you with the transcription. As far as I know I don't have any Monksilver, SOM connections to the WATTS family but there does seem to be a strange attraction between the WATTS & TOGHILL families - nothing would surprise me. Cheers Carole -----Original Message----- From: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence [mailto:lawrence@hazels.u-net.com] Sent: 17 May 2005 18:51 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. Hi Carole I suppose even the best family historians can make mistakes ... Is it just a typo, or does the 1891 census really identify Taffs Well as being in Gloucestershire? I have done some digging around with FreeBMD and FamilyRelatives, and found the following: Death of Joseph Toghill, age 69, Pontardawe R.D. Jul-Oct 1915, Ref 11a 467 Death of Harriet Toghill, age 66, Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1916, Ref 11a 573 Marriage of Edith Maitlida Toghill to Sydney Charles Burgess Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1898 Ref 11a 619 FreeBMD records the marriage of Kate Toghill in Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1910, reference 11a 847. There should be three names for each reference number in FreeBMD, but this time there are two women and one man listed. The man is Henry Charles WATTS. Is this another TOGHILL/WATTS marriage? I think we should be told. If it is, it seems from the 1881 census that Henry Charles was born Eglwysilan, but that his father James was a stone quarryman from Monksilver, Somerset. Incidentally, this all seems to be part of Louise's branch of the Toghill clan. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] ¦Sent: 17 May 2005 17:55 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦ ¦ ¦Apologies to One and All! ¦ ¦The TOGHILLs are in Glamorgan in 1891, just not on the index that I ¦have. Cousin Kay has marked my work and deducted points for inaccuracy! ¦ ¦This is what I should have found:- ¦1881 at Doynton Gloucestershire: ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1848 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦John ANSTEE Brother in Law 1842 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Labourer ¦Robert ANSTEE Brother in Law 1860 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Labourer ¦ (all children and both Brother in Laws single) ¦ ¦1891 at Cardiff Road Eglwysilan Glamorgan ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1849 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Sydney TOGHILL Son 1887 Taffs Well Gloucestershire ¦Edgar TOGHILL Son 1890 Taffs Well Gloucestershire ¦ (all children single) ¦ ¦ ¦1901 at Cardiff Road, Eglwysilan Glamorgan ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1847 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHJILL Wife 1851 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire Coal ¦Miner ¦Kattie TOGHILL Dau 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Sydney TOGHILL Son 1885 Taffs Well Glamorgan Coal ¦Miner ¦Edgar TOGHILL Son 1889 Taffs Well Glamorgan ¦ (all children single) ¦ ¦Cheers ¦Carole ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] ¦Sent: 17 May 2005 08:05 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦ ¦Hi Bob & Louise ¦Out of curiosity I've just looked for the cobbling TOGHILL in Taff's ¦Well on the 1891 Glamorgan census but he has not made it here by then. ¦For the record there were no TOGHILLs in Glamorgan then. ¦-------------- ¦ ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence [mailto:lawrence@hazels.u-net.com] ¦Sent: 16 May 2005 23:38 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦..... ¦Meanwhile, I have been looking up TOGHILLs on the Historical Directories ¦site at www.historicaldirectories.org. Many of those listed are people ¦we ¦already knew about, although I was not aware of a Joseph Toghill, hat ¦manufacturer in Stourport. I also found another Joseph Toghill, boot ¦maker ¦at Taff's Well in 1895, within boot throwing distance of Rhiwbina, where ¦Carole lives. ¦ ¦Bob Lawrence ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦-- ¦No virus found in this outgoing message. ¦Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ¦Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== ¦Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ¦ ¦============================== ¦Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ¦ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: ¦http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ¦ ¦ ¦ ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Hi All I've had a look at the PRs for Hawkesbury, Didmarton & Oldbury on the Hill. There was no sign of a P by any of the baptisms during the period 1783 - 1800, although I have seen a P at other times. There are some interesting entries in the Oldbury Register which appear to be on a printed form with manuscript additions: 14th February 1792 Received of the Revd Mr DEERE the Sum of three shillings and six pence for one year's duty on burials, christenings and marriages, due to the 1st October last from the parish of Oldbury on the Hill, Gloucester for the period of two years. £0.3s.6d signed ?H. WALLIS William PITT, Collector There is a similar manuscript entry dated January 1795 again for 3s 6d, which is split between Didmarton £0-2s-3d and Oldbury on the Hill £0-1s-3d. Cheers Carole -----Original Message----- From: Marilyn Moffat [mailto:marilyn@moffat-mk.co.uk] Sent: 17 May 2005 13:15 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] Baptisms After 1783 I'm cross posting to both lists as this little gem of information, posted by Eve McLaguhlin on the Usenet News genealogy forum is I think of interest. (It was news to me at least!!) I have had great difficulty with my HULBERTs in Biddestone because the baptism records are a shambles for the period from about 1780 to 1800. There are very few meaningful records for this period which means I have had trouble sorting out a whole flock of William and James baptisms, which makes identifying the "missing links" for this generation very difficult However - a tax on baptisms as suggested below may explain a lot. Can anyone with images explain what happened to the Hawkesbury baptisms in this period? This is where the one HULBERT I can trace (thanks to my gran keeping a marriage certificate!) ended up in 1819 .... <start quote> (from soc.genealogy.britain) >Whilst at Hampshire Record Office today, I came across the following entry >in the Baptism Register for Boldre. > >1783 >On subsequent baptisms (3> >new tax takes place. > >In the Register note the bracket symbol was joined to the bottom of the >figure 3. Does this denote a tax of three farthings, It was a national tax of 3d, imposed on all baptisms entered in the parish register. The clergy resented being used as tax collectors, and having to account to the excise man from time to time. There was an exemption for paupers, and the clergy tended to use this as a get out 'exempting' everyone who didn't actually pay Land tax. Result, cvast numbers of 'P' marked entries, which didn;['t mean 90% of the parish had suddenly gone on the parish overseers'/ <end quote> ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Visit Robert Millard's local and family history web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005

Hi Bob I have a better excuse now! I've had another look at the 1891 Index and find that it does not include Eglwysilan, since the Index covers the Cardiff District only. Strange that Taffs Well is not included since, as you say, it's just up the road from here.... although, in 1891 it seems to have been in Gloucestershire! I can't help you with the transcription. As far as I know I don't have any Monksilver, SOM connections to the WATTS family but there does seem to be a strange attraction between the WATTS & TOGHILL families - nothing would surprise me. Cheers Carole -----Original Message----- From: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence [mailto:lawrence@hazels.u-net.com] Sent: 17 May 2005 18:51 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. Hi Carole I suppose even the best family historians can make mistakes ... Is it just a typo, or does the 1891 census really identify Taffs Well as being in Gloucestershire? I have done some digging around with FreeBMD and FamilyRelatives, and found the following: Death of Joseph Toghill, age 69, Pontardawe R.D. Jul-Oct 1915, Ref 11a 467 Death of Harriet Toghill, age 66, Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1916, Ref 11a 573 Marriage of Edith Maitlida Toghill to Sydney Charles Burgess Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1898 Ref 11a 619 FreeBMD records the marriage of Kate Toghill in Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1910, reference 11a 847. There should be three names for each reference number in FreeBMD, but this time there are two women and one man listed. The man is Henry Charles WATTS. Is this another TOGHILL/WATTS marriage? I think we should be told. If it is, it seems from the 1881 census that Henry Charles was born Eglwysilan, but that his father James was a stone quarryman from Monksilver, Somerset. Incidentally, this all seems to be part of Louise's branch of the Toghill clan. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] ¦Sent: 17 May 2005 17:55 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦ ¦ ¦Apologies to One and All! ¦ ¦The TOGHILLs are in Glamorgan in 1891, just not on the index that I ¦have. Cousin Kay has marked my work and deducted points for inaccuracy! ¦ ¦This is what I should have found:- ¦1881 at Doynton Gloucestershire: ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1848 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦John ANSTEE Brother in Law 1842 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Labourer ¦Robert ANSTEE Brother in Law 1860 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Labourer ¦ (all children and both Brother in Laws single) ¦ ¦1891 at Cardiff Road Eglwysilan Glamorgan ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1849 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Sydney TOGHILL Son 1887 Taffs Well Gloucestershire ¦Edgar TOGHILL Son 1890 Taffs Well Gloucestershire ¦ (all children single) ¦ ¦ ¦1901 at Cardiff Road, Eglwysilan Glamorgan ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1847 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHJILL Wife 1851 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire Coal ¦Miner ¦Kattie TOGHILL Dau 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Sydney TOGHILL Son 1885 Taffs Well Glamorgan Coal ¦Miner ¦Edgar TOGHILL Son 1889 Taffs Well Glamorgan ¦ (all children single) ¦ ¦Cheers ¦Carole ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] ¦Sent: 17 May 2005 08:05 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦ ¦Hi Bob & Louise ¦Out of curiosity I've just looked for the cobbling TOGHILL in Taff's ¦Well on the 1891 Glamorgan census but he has not made it here by then. ¦For the record there were no TOGHILLs in Glamorgan then. ¦-------------- ¦ ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence [mailto:lawrence@hazels.u-net.com] ¦Sent: 16 May 2005 23:38 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦..... ¦Meanwhile, I have been looking up TOGHILLs on the Historical Directories ¦site at www.historicaldirectories.org. Many of those listed are people ¦we ¦already knew about, although I was not aware of a Joseph Toghill, hat ¦manufacturer in Stourport. I also found another Joseph Toghill, boot ¦maker ¦at Taff's Well in 1895, within boot throwing distance of Rhiwbina, where ¦Carole lives. ¦ ¦Bob Lawrence ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦-- ¦No virus found in this outgoing message. ¦Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ¦Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== ¦Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ¦ ¦============================== ¦Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ¦ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: ¦http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ¦ ¦ ¦ ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005

Hi Carole I suppose even the best family historians can make mistakes ... Is it just a typo, or does the 1891 census really identify Taffs Well as being in Gloucestershire? I have done some digging around with FreeBMD and FamilyRelatives, and found the following: Death of Joseph Toghill, age 69, Pontardawe R.D. Jul-Oct 1915, Ref 11a 467 Death of Harriet Toghill, age 66, Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1916, Ref 11a 573 Marriage of Edith Maitlida Toghill to Sydney Charles Burgess Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1898 Ref 11a 619 FreeBMD records the marriage of Kate Toghill in Pontypridd R.D., Jan-Mar 1910, reference 11a 847. There should be three names for each reference number in FreeBMD, but this time there are two women and one man listed. The man is Henry Charles WATTS. Is this another TOGHILL/WATTS marriage? I think we should be told. If it is, it seems from the 1881 census that Henry Charles was born Eglwysilan, but that his father James was a stone quarryman from Monksilver, Somerset. Incidentally, this all seems to be part of Louise's branch of the Toghill clan. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] ¦Sent: 17 May 2005 17:55 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦ ¦ ¦Apologies to One and All! ¦ ¦The TOGHILLs are in Glamorgan in 1891, just not on the index that I ¦have. Cousin Kay has marked my work and deducted points for inaccuracy! ¦ ¦This is what I should have found:- ¦1881 at Doynton Gloucestershire: ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1848 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦John ANSTEE Brother in Law 1842 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Labourer ¦Robert ANSTEE Brother in Law 1860 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Labourer ¦ (all children and both Brother in Laws single) ¦ ¦1891 at Cardiff Road Eglwysilan Glamorgan ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1849 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Sydney TOGHILL Son 1887 Taffs Well Gloucestershire ¦Edgar TOGHILL Son 1890 Taffs Well Gloucestershire ¦ (all children single) ¦ ¦ ¦1901 at Cardiff Road, Eglwysilan Glamorgan ¦Joseph TOGHILL Head 1847 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire ¦Shoemaker ¦Harriett TOGHJILL Wife 1851 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire Coal ¦Miner ¦Kattie TOGHILL Dau 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire ¦Sydney TOGHILL Son 1885 Taffs Well Glamorgan Coal ¦Miner ¦Edgar TOGHILL Son 1889 Taffs Well Glamorgan ¦ (all children single) ¦ ¦Cheers ¦Carole ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] ¦Sent: 17 May 2005 08:05 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦ ¦Hi Bob & Louise ¦Out of curiosity I've just looked for the cobbling TOGHILL in Taff's ¦Well on the 1891 Glamorgan census but he has not made it here by then. ¦For the record there were no TOGHILLs in Glamorgan then. ¦-------------- ¦ ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence [mailto:lawrence@hazels.u-net.com] ¦Sent: 16 May 2005 23:38 ¦To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ¦..... ¦Meanwhile, I have been looking up TOGHILLs on the Historical Directories ¦site at www.historicaldirectories.org. Many of those listed are people ¦we ¦already knew about, although I was not aware of a Joseph Toghill, hat ¦manufacturer in Stourport. I also found another Joseph Toghill, boot ¦maker ¦at Taff's Well in 1895, within boot throwing distance of Rhiwbina, where ¦Carole lives. ¦ ¦Bob Lawrence ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦-- ¦No virus found in this outgoing message. ¦Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ¦Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== ¦Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ¦ ¦============================== ¦Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ¦ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: ¦http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx ¦ ¦ ¦

Apologies to One and All! The TOGHILLs are in Glamorgan in 1891, just not on the index that I have. Cousin Kay has marked my work and deducted points for inaccuracy! This is what I should have found:- 1881 at Doynton Gloucestershire: Joseph TOGHILL Head 1848 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire Shoemaker Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire John ANSTEE Brother in Law 1842 Doynton Gloucestershire Labourer Robert ANSTEE Brother in Law 1860 Doynton Gloucestershire Labourer (all children and both Brother in Laws single) 1891 at Cardiff Road Eglwysilan Glamorgan Joseph TOGHILL Head 1849 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire Shoemaker Harriett TOGHILL Wife 1852 Doynton Gloucestershire Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire George TOGHILL Son 1876 Doynton Gloucestershire Edith TOGHILL Dau 1878 Doynton Gloucestershire Kate TOGHILL Dau 1880 Doynton Gloucestershire Sydney TOGHILL Son 1887 Taffs Well Gloucestershire Edgar TOGHILL Son 1890 Taffs Well Gloucestershire (all children single) 1901 at Cardiff Road, Eglwysilan Glamorgan Joseph TOGHILL Head 1847 Cold Ashton Gloucestershire Shoemaker Harriett TOGHJILL Wife 1851 Doynton Gloucestershire Henry TOGHILL Son 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire Coal Miner Kattie TOGHILL Dau 1875 Doynton Gloucestershire Sydney TOGHILL Son 1885 Taffs Well Glamorgan Coal Miner Edgar TOGHILL Son 1889 Taffs Well Glamorgan (all children single) Cheers Carole -----Original Message----- From: ANTHONY SHARP [mailto:sharpafc@btinternet.com] Sent: 17 May 2005 08:05 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. Hi Bob & Louise Out of curiosity I've just looked for the cobbling TOGHILL in Taff's Well on the 1891 Glamorgan census but he has not made it here by then. For the record there were no TOGHILLs in Glamorgan then. -------------- -----Original Message----- From: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence [mailto:lawrence@hazels.u-net.com] Sent: 16 May 2005 23:38 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. ..... Meanwhile, I have been looking up TOGHILLs on the Historical Directories site at www.historicaldirectories.org. Many of those listed are people we already knew about, although I was not aware of a Joseph Toghill, hat manufacturer in Stourport. I also found another Joseph Toghill, boot maker at Taff's Well in 1895, within boot throwing distance of Rhiwbina, where Carole lives. Bob Lawrence -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005

Doug, Thanks for that bit on THOMPSON. That's more or less what I have been sitting on for years now and was hoping someone may have tripped over the space ship! When I get a sec I'll try to search some Wills to see if there are any clues. Do you know if there are any records of these applications to move into another Parish extant. May be the odd clue there. Anne. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

Yes, Joseph and Harriet are part of my tree,Joseph was the 6th child of Moses TOGHILL and Mary CRYER Louise.

Thankyou for your reply, it could well be me on genesreunited, I joined last Oct. but under my first name AWDREY TOGHILL, I was contacted by a lady in Corby who was a TOGHILL before marriage, her branch is the London one, we are in touch often,would it be ok to tell her about the London site? Louise.

As far as I can remember the tax of 3d was from 1783 to 1794, but that the baptism ceremony could be performed regardless of whether the tax was paid, but the baptism could only be entered in the parish register if the tax was paid or if "P" was entered for an excempt pauper. I think that something applied to burials as well but would need to check that. Around that period, I had a number of "missing" baptisms. Some were later found either where all children of a family of various ages all baptised together late 1790s or so, or in the early 1800s individually as adult baptisms. However, I also came across some examples where the baptism must have taken place at the time as it had been recorded in the Bishop's Transcripts for a parish but had not been recorded in the original parish register - was this a form of tax evasion? Worth checking the BTs as well as the PRs during this period. There were also I seem to recall taxes on civil BMDs during the civil war. Also I noted once (but not the source) that a charge/tax was made for births(2s), burials (4s) and marriages (2/6d) between 1694 and 1706 to raise money for a war against France - and that there were fines for attempted evasion and fines for children not baptised. I'm sure our ancesters found ways of evading the tax then too, so could expalin missing entries in registers during that period. Richard (Apologies if any Welsh appears below, I've tried stopping it appearing) -----Original Message----- From: Marilyn Moffat [mailto:marilyn@moffat-mk.co.uk] Sent: 17 May 2005 13:15 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] Baptisms After 1783 I'm cross posting to both lists as this little gem of information, posted by Eve McLaguhlin on the Usenet News genealogy forum is I think of interest. (It was news to me at least!!) I have had great difficulty with my HULBERTs in Biddestone because the baptism records are a shambles for the period from about 1780 to 1800. There are very few meaningful records for this period which means I have had trouble sorting out a whole flock of William and James baptisms, which makes identifying the "missing links" for this generation very difficult However - a tax on baptisms as suggested below may explain a lot. Can anyone with images explain what happened to the Hawkesbury baptisms in this period? This is where the one HULBERT I can trace (thanks to my gran keeping a marriage certificate!) ended up in 1819 .... <start quote> (from soc.genealogy.britain) >Whilst at Hampshire Record Office today, I came across the following entry >in the Baptism Register for Boldre. > >1783 >On subsequent baptisms (3> >new tax takes place. > >In the Register note the bracket symbol was joined to the bottom of the >figure 3. Does this denote a tax of three farthings, It was a national tax of 3d, imposed on all baptisms entered in the parish register. The clergy resented being used as tax collectors, and having to account to the excise man from time to time. There was an exemption for paupers, and the clergy tended to use this as a get out 'exempting' everyone who didn't actually pay Land tax. Result, cvast numbers of 'P' marked entries, which didn;['t mean 90% of the parish had suddenly gone on the parish overseers'/ <end quote> ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Visit Robert Millard's local and family history web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

I'm cross posting to both lists as this little gem of information, posted by Eve McLaguhlin on the Usenet News genealogy forum is I think of interest. (It was news to me at least!!) I have had great difficulty with my HULBERTs in Biddestone because the baptism records are a shambles for the period from about 1780 to 1800. There are very few meaningful records for this period which means I have had trouble sorting out a whole flock of William and James baptisms, which makes identifying the "missing links" for this generation very difficult However - a tax on baptisms as suggested below may explain a lot. Can anyone with images explain what happened to the Hawkesbury baptisms in this period? This is where the one HULBERT I can trace (thanks to my gran keeping a marriage certificate!) ended up in 1819 .... <start quote> (from soc.genealogy.britain) >Whilst at Hampshire Record Office today, I came across the following entry >in the Baptism Register for Boldre. > >1783 >On subsequent baptisms (3> >new tax takes place. > >In the Register note the bracket symbol was joined to the bottom of the >figure 3. Does this denote a tax of three farthings, It was a national tax of 3d, imposed on all baptisms entered in the parish register. The clergy resented being used as tax collectors, and having to account to the excise man from time to time. There was an exemption for paupers, and the clergy tended to use this as a get out 'exempting' everyone who didn't actually pay Land tax. Result, cvast numbers of 'P' marked entries, which didn;['t mean 90% of the parish had suddenly gone on the parish overseers'/ <end quote>

Hi Carole, Thanks again for your information. In my notes I didn't have Alexander as brother to George and Sarah WATTS. Thanks Nikki

Hi Bob & Louise Out of curiosity I've just looked for the cobbling TOGHILL in Taff's Well on the 1891 Glamorgan census but he has not made it here by then. For the record there were no TOGHILLs in Glamorgan then. This looks like George Toghill KNIGHT in 1851 1944 1851 CENSUS HO107/1944 FF.0034 - 0049 ED.3B BITTON 1 Piece: 1944 Folio: 0044 Schedule: 059 Address: White Hart Inn KNIGHT George T. HD M 36 Victualler GLS Chipping Sodbury (c1815) KNIGHT Emily WI M 27 Innkeeper's Wife GLS Chipping Sodbury (c1824) KNIGHT James SO - 6 Scholar GLS Bitton (c1845) KNIGHT Oriell SO - 4 - GLS Bitton (c1847) KNIGHT Thomas SO - 2 - GLS Bitton (c1849) SMITH John SV U 44 Inn Ser Ostler GLS Bitton (c1807) PREWETT Eliza SV U 18 Dom Ser Bar Maid GLS Bristol (c1833) BATT Betsy SV U 16 Dom Ser House Servant GLS Siston (c1835) Any ideas on his parents? Cheers Carole -----Original Message----- From: R.P. & A.L.Lawrence [mailto:lawrence@hazels.u-net.com] Sent: 16 May 2005 23:38 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. Hi Louise We have corresponded in the past about the TOGHILLs, and I have little new to add to what I have already sent you. However, you may find it interesting to look at the archives of the Hawkesbury list, where you will find various postings about the TOGHILLs, but not your particular branch of the family. You may also find it useful to look at the genesreunited site at http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/, since there is someone there who has listed a whole line of TOGHILLs, including some of your own ancestors. Meanwhile, I have been looking up TOGHILLs on the Historical Directories site at www.historicaldirectories.org. Many of those listed are people we already knew about, although I was not aware of a Joseph Toghill, hat manufacturer in Stourport. I also found another Joseph Toghill, boot maker at Taff's Well in 1895, within boot throwing distance of Rhiwbina, where Carole lives. Following up a previous theme of Toghills in the licensed trade, I found a George Toghill Knight at the White Hart, Bitton in 1852-3. Perhaps his mother was a Toghill. I have heard the foundling story before, but am not sure about the real truth of it. There seem to have been Toghills around for a long time. There was a Nicholas Toggell of Hawkesbury who left a will in 1579, and an Alice Tokell of Hawkesbury who left a will in 1583. Happy hunting. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** |-----Original Message----- |From: Hawker41forest@aol.com [mailto:Hawker41forest@aol.com] |Sent: 16 May 2005 20:17 |To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com |Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. | | |Hello everyone, My name is Louise Hawker nee Toghill, I am fairly new to |research but old in years!! I want to leave a record for my |G.Grandchildren, I |have found some ancestors in Cold Ashton and Marshfield, I have |got to my GGG |G/father George Toghill born around 1790 married to Mary Davis |1811 there the |trail runs out he doesn't seem to have parents, I have heard the |story of the | FOUNDLING with my luck I'll bet it is him. | Wondering where to look next, Louise. | | |==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== |Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. | |============================== |Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for |ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: |http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx | | | ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Look out for Get Togethers at The Beaufort: Next one is Sat 7th May and then Sun 16th July. Contact Robert via his web site to book lunch. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005

Hi Louise We have corresponded in the past about the TOGHILLs, and I have little new to add to what I have already sent you. However, you may find it interesting to look at the archives of the Hawkesbury list, where you will find various postings about the TOGHILLs, but not your particular branch of the family. You may also find it useful to look at the genesreunited site at http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/, since there is someone there who has listed a whole line of TOGHILLs, including some of your own ancestors. Meanwhile, I have been looking up TOGHILLs on the Historical Directories site at www.historicaldirectories.org. Many of those listed are people we already knew about, although I was not aware of a Joseph Toghill, hat manufacturer in Stourport. I also found another Joseph Toghill, boot maker at Taff's Well in 1895, within boot throwing distance of Rhiwbina, where Carole lives. Following up a previous theme of Toghills in the licensed trade, I found a George Toghill Knight at the White Hart, Bitton in 1852-3. Perhaps his mother was a Toghill. I have heard the foundling story before, but am not sure about the real truth of it. There seem to have been Toghills around for a long time. There was a Nicholas Toggell of Hawkesbury who left a will in 1579, and an Alice Tokell of Hawkesbury who left a will in 1583. Happy hunting. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** |-----Original Message----- |From: Hawker41forest@aol.com [mailto:Hawker41forest@aol.com] |Sent: 16 May 2005 20:17 |To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com |Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL FAMILY. | | |Hello everyone, My name is Louise Hawker nee Toghill, I am fairly new to |research but old in years!! I want to leave a record for my |G.Grandchildren, I |have found some ancestors in Cold Ashton and Marshfield, I have |got to my GGG |G/father George Toghill born around 1790 married to Mary Davis |1811 there the |trail runs out he doesn't seem to have parents, I have heard the |story of the | FOUNDLING with my luck I'll bet it is him. | Wondering where to look next, Louise. | | |==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== |Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. | |============================== |Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for |ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: |http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx | | |