Hi Brian A William BAKER on the 1871 census for Hawkesbury aged 19 living with Thomas Robert WALKER it states he is a lodger. Regards Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Hi Brian It is quite a long time since I have looked at this research so I will have to check Hannah's death date. It seems that some of their children were (c) when they were older. How do you fit into this family? Regards Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Thanks for that, Cynthia. So Elizabeth and Selina are different are in adjacent years. Hannah is still with Onesimus in 1851 Census. So must be a different Hannah who died in 1843. Brian

The sibling I have for Jane Baker - William (1813) - John (1817) married Mary Ann Brown - Charles (1820) married Pricilla Lewis - Henry (1823) married Caroline Padington - Sarah ( ?) married William Allen - Selina 1831) - Elizabeth (1832) - and Humphrey (1834). Elizabeth and Selina married William Matcroft) married on the same day - 10th October 1854. I have Hannah's death as 1843. Onesimus died 1858. Regards Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Thanks, Cynthia for your details about Jane which is very close to what I have. I note you refer to her sister Elizabeth who by the dates you give would have been born in 1831 (died 1873 aged 42). This suggests that Selina/Seline born H 1831(Beavington and GFHS CD') is either the wrong name or that she had two names i.e. Selina + Elizabeth? Or was there a third dau abt that time? I think we can agree that Hannah's age (65 in 1851) precludes her from being 1843 Betsy's mother so Jane 9(being the elder girl) must be the mother referred to in the census.William the gson could have been the child of either girl. Jane married in 1853 - I wonder who he (William) was with in 1861? Plenty to think about. Best wishes Brian

Bob I don't know what happened there! I copied it from the original email but somehow an extra I has been stuck on the end. Nothing to do with the Italins I'm sure. Carole

Hi All, especially Bob This also came from my cousin in Australia. I haven't seen the 1891 census entry before. "Re Elizabeth Walbridge. In the 1881 Census Elizabeth is at 29 Royal Cresecent, Walcott, apparently a boarding house, and with her was Alice Watts, niece 11 born Hillesly. Elizabeth is still at 29 Royal Cresecnt Walcott in the 1891 Census and with her were Alice Watts, niece 21 born Kilcott, Arthur Watts, nephew 22 born Slaughterford and Mary Toghill visitor 60 single born Iron Acton occupation Cook. I think that Mary Toghill is the same Mary who was the housekeeper for Isaac Watts (1881 Census). Arthur Watts is the nephew who was with Isaac Watts in the 1881 Census. I wonder if Isaac died and young Arthur and Mary Toghill were 'taken on' by Elizabeth Walbridge; if my 'wonder' is right, then this would strengthen the 'thought' that Elizabeth was the sister of Isaac Watts" Any thoughts? Carole

Dear List, I Emailed [email protected] concerning my grandmother Alice TILLING and her siblings who entered the workhouse 1890 and received the following reply (edited) Chipping Sodbury Union Records The Gloucestershire Record Office does hold surviving material from the Chipping Sodbury Poor Law Union, but unfortunately this collection (Gro reference Number G/So does not contain very much material pertaining to the workhouse inmates. No admissions or discharge registers, for example, have survived. A member of staff did check the Workhouse Punishment Book(G/So 87) which has a name index but the name TILLING or TELLING was not mentioned. One possible source that may contain information regarding the family, are the Minutes of the Board of Guardians 1852-1930 (G/SO 8a/1-39. These minutes comprise some 39 volumes and may contain detail regarding the family's entry into the Union Workhouse and how they left. These records could be searched on your behalf, but this would attract a research fee. Details of the research service we offer together with an application form that can be downloaded and returned to us with payment can be found on our website (http://archives.gloucestershire.gov.uk). Research costs £18 perhour and we usually suggest that you send no more than £36 in the first instance, which would enable us to spend up to 2 hours on the work. They were very helpful and looked up a census for me, but I did not have the search done as there was no guarantee of there being anything significant in the minutes.They were all on the 1901 census, which people on this list kindly sent to me. I will likely never know what happened in the 10 years 1890 to 1901. Many regards, Jane, harold&[email protected]

Jane BAKER was the daughter of Onesimus BAKER and Hannah FERRIS. Her sister Elizabeth married Henry WHITE and the Ellen WHITE aged 11 an inmate at Yate Workhouse in 1881 was their daughter, the reason being that Elizabeth died in 1873 aged 42 and Henry died in 1877 aged 54. I think that Ellen brother James aged 9 was also an inmate. Their sister Eliza married James RAINES these were my ggrandparents. Regards Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Hi List, I wondered if anyone could help me yet again! People were good enough to discover that the family of Timothy Sherwin BROOK (BROOKES) was likely to come from Hawkesbury. Since you sent me the information I have been trying to prove this correct or not. Unfortunately I have been unlucky with this. So far nothing for the 1841 census or 1851 census for London. Have you any idea's on how to prove that I have found the right people? Regards Caroline Ps May I wish you and all the other's on the list a belated happy New Year! I hope you will all for give me if for sending this again just that my PC is playing up and I can not tell if I sent it before! Thank you Caroline ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

This extract might be of interest (sorry, haven't got the URL to find its source): "The new Chipping Sodbury Board of Guardians had their first meeting at Chipping Sodbury Town Hall on 31st March 1836. It was decided to build a new workhouse for the Union and a site of just under four acres was eventually found at Yate. The plot of land, known as "The Whalley" was purchased from the Alway family at a cost of £456. The architects for the new building were the partnership of George Gilbert Scott and William Bonython Moffatt. In November 1838, their plans were submitted to the Poor Law Commissioners for building to accommodate 160 inmates. The builder appointed for the project was James Chappell of Bath. The building contract for £2,090 stipulated that the exterior of the new building was to be completed by 20th August 1839, and the interior by 25th March 1840. In fact, the building was ready for use in May 1840. " The following Hawkesbruy folk were inmates in 1881: Mary STAFFORD, 21 William THOMPSON, 64 Emily WATTS, 2 Ellen WHITE, 11 Thomas HOPKINS, W, 69 Richard Teagle -----Original Message----- From: anthony sharp [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 16 January 2004 07:24 To: [email protected] Subject: [HWK] Mary Ann TOGHILL and children Hello Everyone, I have just received the following information from my cousin in Australia. It adds to our previous exchanges about the WATTS - TOGHILL families. "Mary Ann TOGHILLl and children Rosa and Walter. I have birth certificates for: (a)Rose Amelia TOGHILLl, born 21/10/1860 Starveall, Hawkesbury, no father, mother Mary Ann TOGHILL address Starveall Hawkesbury - birth registered by Mary Ann. (Registered 10/11/1880.) (b) Walter TOGHILL born 11/12/1883 Union Workhouse, Yate, no father, mother Mary TOGHILL of Hawkesbury Upton. Registered by Cecilia M CLAPP, Matron, Union Workhouse, Yate, (present at birth). (Registered 29/12/1883.) I wonder if there are records of the Yate Workhouse that may be of help? I did check to see if Mary Ann had died following the birth of Walter and checked BDM Indexes for Dec Q 1883 to Dec Q 1884. There is a Mary Ann TOGHILL who died Jun Q 1884 Barton Regis Dist 6a 90 but her age is shown as 56 which would suggest she is not Mary Ann TOGHILL nee CHAPPELL born in 1854." Do the Yate workhouse records survive? As always, all help appreciated. Carole ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

According to 1851 Census Jane had a sister or dau named Betsy BAKER and a son William BAKER. I can't find the right William in 1881 census but did find this Betsy (variant) who is the only one in 400 born 1841-45 from Hawkesbury. She appears as HAWKINS which I think I remember being discussed fairly recently. Any thoughts, anyone?? Household Record 1881 British Census Search results | Download Previous Household Next Household -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Charles HAWKINS Head M Male 48 North Petherton, Somerset, England Clay Digger Elizabeth HAWKINS Wife M Female 38 Hawkesbury Upton, Gloucester, England William HAWKINS Son U Male 21 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Fireman (Brickyard) Charles HAWKINS Son U Male 18 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Tile Maker Alice HAWKINS Daur U Female 16 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Gen Serv (Unemployed) Emily HAWKINS Daur Female 13 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Gen Serv (Unemployed) Albert HAWKINS Son Male 11 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Scholar George HAWKINS Son Male 9 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Scholar Ada HAWKINS Daur Female 7 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Scholar Elizabeth HAWKINS Daur Female 4 Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Scholar -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Mangotsfield Street Census Place Mangotsfield, Gloucester, England Family History Library Film 1341589 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 2446 / 132 Page Number 21 HOPES & GULWELL surnames- Guild of One Name Studies Main research: Gloucester; MORGAN; COOK; WHITE; GULLY; COLLAR/COLLER; CURNOCK; GLEEDSMART; FISHLOCK; HULBERT; BARRETT (Marshfield 1850 ONLY); OLIVE; AYLIFFE; FITZGERALD (Bristol 1840) London ; WILLIAM MORGAN/Newington 1880; Herefords; SANDERS/SAUNDERS; WOODHOUSE; LEIGHTON; BURTON; FOX; DAVIS; PREECE; WOMANS/WHOMANS; SHERIFFE; EWINS; SEABRIDGE; BOWKETT; Monmouth/Brecons; EDWARDS; FITZGERALD; HOPKINS; Swansea; FITZGERALD 1881; Ireland; DEEGAN; TUITE; KEALY; BOLGER

Hi Carole Not sure where you find them but I think the Yate Workhouse (Spike) registers still exist The building certainly does, I can just about see it through the trees from here, If a death occured at the workhouse the body was sent to the source Parish for burial at the Parish expense presumably if not claimed by the family, there are notes in Hawkesbury burial register to this effect. regards Robert Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "anthony sharp" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:23 AM Subject: [HWK] Mary Ann TOGHILL and children > Hello Everyone, > > I have just received the following information from my cousin in Australia. > It adds to our previous exchanges about the WATTS - TOGHILL families. > > "Mary Ann TOGHILLl and children Rosa and Walter. > I have birth certificates for: > > (a)Rose Amelia TOGHILLl, born 21/10/1860 Starveall, Hawkesbury, no father, > mother Mary Ann TOGHILL address Starveall Hawkesbury - birth registered by > Mary Ann. (Registered 10/11/1880.) > > (b) Walter TOGHILL born 11/12/1883 Union Workhouse, Yate, no father, mother > Mary TOGHILL of Hawkesbury Upton. Registered by Cecilia M CLAPP, Matron, > Union Workhouse, Yate, (present at birth). (Registered 29/12/1883.) > > I wonder if there are records of the Yate Workhouse that may be of help? > I did check to see if Mary Ann had died following the birth of Walter and > checked BDM Indexes for Dec Q 1883 to Dec Q 1884. There is a Mary Ann > TOGHILL who died Jun Q 1884 Barton Regis Dist 6a 90 but her age is shown as > 56 which would suggest she is not Mary Ann TOGHILL nee CHAPPELL born in > 1854." > > Do the Yate workhouse records survive? > > As always, all help appreciated. > > Carole > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Carole Thanks for that information. I note that the surname is spelt TOGHILLI on more than one occasion. An Italian connection, perhaps? I found the following in the 1881 census, and feel that this is probably the Mary Ann whose death was recorded in 1884. She is not listed in the 1891 Avon census index. I know nothing else about her. Dwelling: Campbell St 8 Census Place: Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucester, England Source: FHL Film 1341598 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2486 Folio 97 Page 38 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Mary An. TOGHILL W 53 F Taunton, Somerset, England Rel: Head Occ: Annuitant Alice E. TOGHILL U 26 F Cheltenham, Gloucester, England Rel: Dau Occ: Dress & Mantle Maker Frank A. TOGHILL 15 M Bristol Rel: Son Occ: Assist In Library Alice L. TOGHILL 6 F Bristol Rel: Dau Occ: Scholar Edmund IRELAND W 56 M Banandon, Rutland, England Rel: Lod Occ: Brewer Unemployed Harriet PERRY U 78 F Bristol Rel: Lod Occ: Retired School Mistress There is also another TOGHILL mystery, which someone may be able to help with. An Amelia TOGHILL was buried at Hawkesbury on 9 July 1880 age 3. Her birth was registered at Chipping Sodbury in the December quarter 1876. Could this be another of Mary Ann's children? If so, she would be the only legitimate one, and even then posthumous, since Hugh Watts TOGHILL died in the September quarter 1876. Alfred and the mysterious Daniel were born before the couple married, while Rosa and Walter came along several years after Hugh's death. Incidentally, I have no connection (I think) with COOPERs with whom the KEMMETs were living in 1880. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: anthony sharp [mailto:[email protected]] ¦Sent: 16 January 2004 07:24 ¦To: [email protected] ¦Subject: [HWK] Mary Ann TOGHILL and children ¦ ¦ ¦Hello Everyone, ¦ ¦I have just received the following information from my cousin in Australia. ¦It adds to our previous exchanges about the WATTS - TOGHILL families. ¦ ¦"Mary Ann TOGHILLl and children Rosa and Walter. ¦I have birth certificates for: ¦ ¦(a)Rose Amelia TOGHILLl, born 21/10/1860 Starveall, Hawkesbury, no father, ¦mother Mary Ann TOGHILL address Starveall Hawkesbury - birth registered by ¦Mary Ann. (Registered 10/11/1880.) ¦ ¦(b) Walter TOGHILL born 11/12/1883 Union Workhouse, Yate, no father, mother ¦Mary TOGHILL of Hawkesbury Upton. Registered by Cecilia M CLAPP, Matron, ¦Union Workhouse, Yate, (present at birth). (Registered 29/12/1883.) ¦ ¦I wonder if there are records of the Yate Workhouse that may be of help? ¦I did check to see if Mary Ann had died following the birth of Walter and ¦checked BDM Indexes for Dec Q 1883 to Dec Q 1884. There is a Mary Ann ¦TOGHILL who died Jun Q 1884 Barton Regis Dist 6a 90 but her age is shown as ¦56 which would suggest she is not Mary Ann TOGHILL nee CHAPPELL born in ¦1854." ¦ ¦Do the Yate workhouse records survive? ¦ ¦As always, all help appreciated. ¦ ¦Carole ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== ¦Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ¦ ¦============================== ¦Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration ¦Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. ¦http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ¦ ¦ ¦

Hello Everyone, I have just received the following information from my cousin in Australia. It adds to our previous exchanges about the WATTS - TOGHILL families. "Mary Ann TOGHILLl and children Rosa and Walter. I have birth certificates for: (a)Rose Amelia TOGHILLl, born 21/10/1860 Starveall, Hawkesbury, no father, mother Mary Ann TOGHILL address Starveall Hawkesbury - birth registered by Mary Ann. (Registered 10/11/1880.) (b) Walter TOGHILL born 11/12/1883 Union Workhouse, Yate, no father, mother Mary TOGHILL of Hawkesbury Upton. Registered by Cecilia M CLAPP, Matron, Union Workhouse, Yate, (present at birth). (Registered 29/12/1883.) I wonder if there are records of the Yate Workhouse that may be of help? I did check to see if Mary Ann had died following the birth of Walter and checked BDM Indexes for Dec Q 1883 to Dec Q 1884. There is a Mary Ann TOGHILL who died Jun Q 1884 Barton Regis Dist 6a 90 but her age is shown as 56 which would suggest she is not Mary Ann TOGHILL nee CHAPPELL born in 1854." Do the Yate workhouse records survive? As always, all help appreciated. Carole

That's very interesting Carole Does he give the names in between linking him to Mary Ann? Does he have her birth certificate? Regards Brian

My thanks to Robert, Brian and Alf BEARD for solving this little mystery. A quote from Alf "Mary Tudor was Mary Ann Gullwell from Hawkesbury Upton and was in fact my Great Great Grandmother". I'm not related to the family, as far as I know, although there were GULWELL & WATTS marriages. I'm sure someone will find a connection for me now!). .In 1901 the TUDORs were living next door to my gt grandmother's sister and her husband, Hugh and Annie ROACH. in Histfield. Cheers Carole

Hi Marylyn I don't remember Peter GULWELL he probably did n't have a sister? The GULWELL's were petty handy at changing names though regards Robert Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn moffat" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:27 PM Subject: RE: [HWK] 1901 census stray - TUDOR > > But that is how we always pronounced it at KLB School,... isn't it Robert? > (Or don't you remember Peter Gulwell from Cromhall?) > > Marilyn > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Morgan [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 15 January 2004 09:18 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [HWK] 1901 census stray - TUDOR > > > Thanks for that Carole and Robert! > > Here they are in 1881 with Mary Ann's brother George in tow, name misspelt > as GOWELL at Pains Hill, Limpsfield Surrey. > > Household Record 1881 British Census > > Search results | Download Previous Household Next Household > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Household: > > Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation > Disability > George TUDOR Head M Male 23 Stowe, Gloucester, > England Carter > Mary TUDOR Wife M Female 22 Hawkesbury Upton, > Gloucester, England > George GOWELL Bro In Law U Male 19 Hawkesbury Upton, > Gloucester, England Farm Laborer > > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: and Hawks" > bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be repeated. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be repeated. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Thought you might be interested in this piece from tonight's Bristol Evening Post: "A South Gloucestershire pub has won an accolade from real ale enthusiasts for the third year running. The Beaufort Arms in Hawkesbury Upton has just been named pub of the year by the Dursley and district branch of the Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA). Landlord Mark Steeds, who has run the pub for nearly 10 years, now has another certificate to put on the wall to add to those presented in 2002 and 2003. The Beaufort Arms is a regular entry in the annual CAMRA Good Beer Guide. The locally-made Wickwar BOB brew is a favourite with customers, who can also sample a wide range of guest beers from further afield. There is a no-smoking dining area in the pub and over the years, Mark has built up a collection of brewery and local memorabilia together with period dentists' chairs" Bob ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 **************************************

Not if you put a hyphen in between the 2 obvious words in the name Brian - that is just what Peter was called! - As I moved to Cromhall when I was 8, I spent some weeks at the Primary school being confused by what he was being called, especially as the Head had a nice line in sarcasm and used it against him frequently! -----Original Message----- From: Brian Morgan [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 15 January 2004 17:04 To: [email protected] Subject: [HWK] 1901 census stray - TUDOR Still misspelt even if written as heard! Brian ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be repeated. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237