Hi Thanks to Carole for unravelling the qustion of William NICHOLS and Mary Jane WATTS. I was beginning to think that this was all getting a bit distant from my own family, and the remembered that my gt-grandmother Rosina COOPER was staying with Mary Jane's parents George and Jane at the time of the 1861 census. This was before Mary Jane's birth, but it seems a fair bet that they all knew one another fairly well. It is also another reminder that there is often a connection between seemingly unconnected people. I have recently identified the young women living as a domestic servant with one of my Lawrence family in Illinois. She was the orphaned daughter of the daughter of his mother's half-sister. She had been born in Ontario, but her parents had followed other members of the family to Illinois. I am not sure about Brian's theory regarding TOGHILL and THURKILL. The Gloucestershire R.O.database lists wills by Nicholas TOGGELL (Hawkesbury, 1579) and Agnes TOKILL (Hawkesbury 1583), and the name seems to originate in the South Gloucestershire area. There is a story that one of the TOGHILL lines starts with a foundling discovered on the hill, but the name apparently predates that event. Incidentally, we went to the picnic site on Tog Hill before crashing the car at Tormarton last Saturday. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: Brian Morgan [mailto:[email protected]] ¦Sent: 19 January 2004 09:19 ¦To: [email protected] ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL - WATTS - NICHOLLS ¦ ¦ ¦Hi, Carole ¦She could be Mary's aunt? I've had such examples, where the relationship ¦turns out to be not to the householder but the spouse. ¦Tog Hill is a famous (and recently notorious) hill on the Wick to ¦Marshfield ¦Rd where it is crossed by the Freezing Hill road. At the top of the A420 ¦turn left (as from Wick) and you go on to Doynton, M4 and Hawkesbury. ¦I expect you already know that TOGHILL is a variant of THURKILL so the ¦coincidence of the names may be just that. I used to think that TOGHILL was ¦a surname after the place. ¦Regards ¦Brian ¦ ¦ ¦==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== ¦Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ¦ ¦============================== ¦Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration ¦Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. ¦http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ¦ ¦

Hi, Carole She could be Mary's aunt? I've had such examples, where the relationship turns out to be not to the householder but the spouse. Tog Hill is a famous (and recently notorious) hill on the Wick to Marshfield Rd where it is crossed by the Freezing Hill road. At the top of the A420 turn left (as from Wick) and you go on to Doynton, M4 and Hawkesbury. I expect you already know that TOGHILL is a variant of THURKILL so the coincidence of the names may be just that. I used to think that TOGHILL was a surname after the place. Regards Brian

Hi Bob and All You wrote: In 1901, there is a Mary TOGHILL living at Toghill Cottages (!), Doynton, age 75. She is living with William NICHOLS (38, born Doynton), his wife Mary (36, born Hawkesbury) and 5 children. Mary TOGHILL is described as "AUNT", which might indicate a connection in Hawkesbury were it not that William's father Thomas NICHOLS is shown in the 1881 census as having been born at Iron Acton. I have still not worked out how Mary can be William's aunt, however. Does this help? FreeBMD tells me that William Nichols married Mary Jane Watts Mar Q 1887 Chipping Sodbury 6a 259. Also that William Nichols born Jun Q 1861 Chipping Sodbury 6a 166. Mary Jane Watts daughter of George Watts and Jane Toghill was baptised 14/1/1866. Jane was the sister of Mary Toghill. Thus Mary Toghill is the aunt of Jane Nichols nee Watts . The 1881 census has a NICHOLS family at Doynton, parents Thomas & Sarah and 2 sons including William age 19 born Toghill Doynton!! Mary Jane WATTS would appear to be the Mary I WATTS servant to Frederick y RIBBANS, Clergyman at Tetbury. Mary is shown as U 15 born Hawkesbury Upton. That's the end of this instalment Best wishes Carole

Steve I wonder who George's mother was. I'm not certain that George or William were Hannah's sons. She only married William in 1839. Doug on 18/1/04 10:59 pm, Steve Baker at [email protected] wrote: > Doug, > Thank You for looking up COATES family on 1861 census, I have found George > on 1881 census but it states he was born in Hawkesbury (perhaps he did not > know), I wonder why he was born in Chepstow. I have listed his family in > 1881, they were living in Stapleton, Gloucestershire. > > Regards > Steve Baker > West Yorkshire >

Doug, Thank You for looking up COATES family on 1861 census, I have found George on 1881 census but it states he was born in Hawkesbury (perhaps he did not know), I wonder why he was born in Chepstow. I have listed his family in 1881, they were living in Stapleton, Gloucestershire. Regards Steve Baker West Yorkshire George COATES Head M Male 45 Hawkesbury Upton, Gloucester, England Labourer Emily COATES Wife M Female 41 Frampton Cotterell, Gloucester, England Landress Charles COATES Son Male 15 Stapleton, Gloucester, England Labourer Fredk. COATES Son Male 14 Stapleton, Gloucester, England Scholar Labr Henrietta COATES Daur Female 9 Stapleton, Gloucester, England Scholar George COATES Son Male 7 Stapleton, Gloucester, England Scholar Sidney COATES Son Male 2 Stapleton, Gloucester, England Dwelling Lodge Causeway Census Place Stapleton, Gloucester, England ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Thompson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [HWK] COATES family 1861 census look up > Here they are, in Back Street. > > COATES William Head Mar 50 Ag Lab > COATES Hannah Wife Mar 46 Sherston Magna > COATES George Son Unm 25 Ag Lab Chepstow > COATES Charles Son Unm 19 Ag Lab Hawkesbury Upton > COATES Mark Son Unm 16 Journeyman Butcher and Baker > Hawkesbury Upton > COATES Edwin Son Un 12 Ag Lab Hawkesbury Upton > COATES Alfred Son Unm 11 Ag Lab Hawkesbury Upton > COATES Frederick J Son Unm 4 Scholar Hawkesbury Upton > > Did you know they had been to Chepstow? > > Best wishes > Doug Thompson > > on 18/1/04 8:05 pm, Steve Baker at [email protected] > wrote: > > > Hello Everybody, > > I wondered if anybody had the 1861 census for Hawkesbury and could look up the > > below COATES family as I would like to know any new additions to family and > > what they were doing and where they lived. > > Thank You > > Steve Baker > > West Yorkshire > >> From 1851 census for Hawkesbury: > > > > COATES William 39 Ag Lab Hawkesbury > > Hannah 35 Sherston > > William 13 Lab Hawkesbury > > Hannah 11 Scholar Hawkesbury > > Charles 10 Scholar Hawkesbury > > Henrietta 8 Scholar Hawkesbury > > Mark 7 Scholar Hawkesbury > > Joseph 5 Scholar Hawkesbury > > Edwin 3 Scholar Hawkesbury > > Alfred 1 Hawkesbury > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be repeated. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Here they are, in Back Street. COATES William Head Mar 50 Ag Lab COATES Hannah Wife Mar 46 Sherston Magna COATES George Son Unm 25 Ag Lab Chepstow COATES Charles Son Unm 19 Ag Lab Hawkesbury Upton COATES Mark Son Unm 16 Journeyman Butcher and Baker Hawkesbury Upton COATES Edwin Son Un 12 Ag Lab Hawkesbury Upton COATES Alfred Son Unm 11 Ag Lab Hawkesbury Upton COATES Frederick J Son Unm 4 Scholar Hawkesbury Upton Did you know they had been to Chepstow? Best wishes Doug Thompson on 18/1/04 8:05 pm, Steve Baker at [email protected] wrote: > Hello Everybody, > I wondered if anybody had the 1861 census for Hawkesbury and could look up the > below COATES family as I would like to know any new additions to family and > what they were doing and where they lived. > Thank You > Steve Baker > West Yorkshire >> From 1851 census for Hawkesbury: > > COATES William 39 Ag Lab Hawkesbury > Hannah 35 Sherston > William 13 Lab Hawkesbury > Hannah 11 Scholar Hawkesbury > Charles 10 Scholar Hawkesbury > Henrietta 8 Scholar Hawkesbury > Mark 7 Scholar Hawkesbury > Joseph 5 Scholar Hawkesbury > Edwin 3 Scholar Hawkesbury > Alfred 1 Hawkesbury >

Hello Everybody, I wondered if anybody had the 1861 census for Hawkesbury and could look up the below COATES family as I would like to know any new additions to family and what they were doing and where they lived. Thank You Steve Baker West Yorkshire >From 1851 census for Hawkesbury: COATES William 39 Ag Lab Hawkesbury Hannah 35 Sherston William 13 Lab Hawkesbury Hannah 11 Scholar Hawkesbury Charles 10 Scholar Hawkesbury Henrietta 8 Scholar Hawkesbury Mark 7 Scholar Hawkesbury Joseph 5 Scholar Hawkesbury Edwin 3 Scholar Hawkesbury Alfred 1 Hawkesbury

Hi Brian Looking through my research I have Joseph GULWELL's death as 1859, but you say he died 1858. Perhaps I have the wrong Joseph. Regards Cynthia --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Brian, Alf, Cynthia My Great Grandmother was Ann Elizabeth WHITE b,1861 Hawkesbury (Married William CHAPPELL) was the daughter of Henry WHITE and Elizabeth BAKER b,1832 Hawkesbury, sister of Jane BAKER wife of Joseph GULWELL this is on my mothers side. As a coincidence My Paternal Grandfather Robert MILLARD's grandmother was Hannah GULWELL daughter of William GULWELL and Sarah CHAPPELL of Hawkesbury, he was born at Hill Nr Thornbury where we find George WHITE brother of Ann Elizabeth my maternal grand mother the two families would have known each other its a small world. George GULWELL and Pheobe appear at Park Street Hawkesbury on the 1901 census not Thornbury. regards Robert Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Morgan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:54 AM Subject: [HWK] TUDOR stray and Jane GULWELL nee BAKER > Hello, Alf (& Cynthia) > Thanks for the spelling of Histfield = Hystfield. Robert extracted the info > from the 1901 Census so either it was Histfield then or it was wrongly > written/transcribed at the Census. I've looked at the map to see where this > and the other villages are and am now that much wiser about the area! > > It might be worth getting Mary Ann GULWELL's birth certificate to see when > she was born. She was baptised on 26 Dec 1858, 11 m and 13 days after Joseph > was buried. She was described as being the daughter of Joseph and Jane. > There may well be a few months between her birth and her baptism, in which > case Joseph could be her father. > George, baptised 25 Dec 1861, her brother, was described as son of Jane > GULWELL. No father mentioned but his birth cert may well show more > information. Some people did treat the two records differently, so it is > possible that George's father is shown on the birth certificate but not in > the parish records (which are much more public). > > I wonder if Cynthia would provide us with the full household for Jane > (widow) in the 1861 census? She's already said that Jane's son William Baker > is there, and presumably Mary Ann and Samuel GULWELL also? > I've said previously that Samuel was Joseph's nephew. Actually he was his > son by Joseph's second wife Mary who was buried at Hawkesbury on Sept 12 > 1852, just 9 m before his marriage to Jane. This is the same Samuel who was > present in 1881 census so his age in 1861 would be 22. Joseph was 57 when he > married Jane who was just 25. > Incidentally Joseph was telling porkies about his age. The Rev even noted > his stated age as 40, Joseph seemingly forgetting he had given his age as 48 > in the 1851 census. Did he feel the age gap was too much? > At his burial Joseph's age was recorded as 62 which fits nicely with his > date of birth. > Finally I'd be pleased to add your connections Alf., i.e ggf, gf and > fathers' names and date such as you wish to disclose and to provide you with > the GULWELL forbears of Joseph. > Best wishes > Brian > (also a Gulwell descendant) living at Winsley, Wilts > > HOPES & GULWELL surnames- Guild of One Name Studies > Main research: Gloucester; MORGAN; COOK; WHITE; GULLY; COLLAR/COLLER; > CURNOCK; GLEEDSMART; FISHLOCK; HULBERT; BARRETT (Marshfield 1850 ONLY); > OLIVE; AYLIFFE; FITZGERALD (Bristol 1840) > London ; WILLIAM MORGAN/Newington 1880; > Herefords; SANDERS/SAUNDERS; WOODHOUSE; LEIGHTON; BURTON; FOX; DAVIS; > PREECE; WOMANS/WHOMANS; SHERIFFE; EWINS; SEABRIDGE; BOWKETT; > Monmouth/Brecons; EDWARDS; FITZGERALD; HOPKINS; > Swansea; FITZGERALD 1881; > Ireland; DEEGAN; TUITE; KEALY; BOLGER > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

This may be of interest to someone which was on the 1901 Census (I had money to use up or I would have lost it): GULWELL George 39 Ag Lab (b) Hawkesbury Phoebe 38 Hampton Mid ? William 16 Charles 12 Walter 10 Alice 8 Arthur 7 Nelly 5 Ethell 4 Ernest 13mths They were living in Park Street, Thornbury. All the children were born Hawkesbury. Could George be the son of Jane GULWELL? Regards Cynthia --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Bob, Sorry to hear about the car - hope you're OK Here's a little more from "down under". "Spent the day at the State Library poring over microfiche and managed to find three items of interest: 1.Elizabeth Watts married Henry Walbridge Dec Q 1865 Bath Regn Dist 5c 1271. 2. Isaac Watts, aged 66 died Mar Q 1887 Chipping Sodbury Regn Dist 6a 162 (Children of John Watts and Jane Pritchard). 3. Alfred Marquis Watts aged 39 died Mar Q 1901 Chipping Sodbury Regn Dist 6a 183." There is Henry WALBRIDGE in Clifton in 1851 (Beavington) and I guess he is Elizabeth WATTS's husband. "195 NUGER ?? / NEEG ?? Mary 60 Annuitant Ware Herts Margaret 29 London St James BAILEY Ann Servant 32 House Maid Winterbourne PAGAN Margaret Servant 30 Cook Ayreshire Kilmarnock WALBRIDGE Henry Servant 26 Butler Bath" I'll have another look at the WATTS connections now and let you know. Cheers Carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.P. & A.L.Lawrence" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 11:46 PM Subject: RE: [HWK] TOGHILL - WATTS - WALBRIDGE Hi to all, especially Carole Fresh from causing some serious damage this afternoon to my wife's car in an accident at a cross-roads in Tormarton, now seems a good time to throw in a few thoughts on the Toghill-Watts-Walbridge question. It certainly seems likely that Elizabeth WALBRIDGE is the same as the Elizabeth WATTS, who was baptised at Hawkesbury 27th February 1823, daughter of John WATTS and Jane nee PRITCHARD. I have only records of one Mary TOGHILL born Iron Acton at the right time, and there can surely be only one Arthur WATTS born Slaughterford about 1870. What is more difficult is working out why these people should be living together, who they are, and what happened to them. There is a death of Elizabeth Walbridge age 75 in Chipping Sodbury Reg District Jan-Mar 1898. She must be the right one. In 1901, there is a Mary TOGHILL living at Toghill Cottages (!), Doynton, age 75. She is living with William NICHOLS (38, born Doynton), his wife Mary (36, born Hawkesbury) and 5 children. Mary TOGHILL is described as "AUNT", which might indicate a connection in Hawkesbury were it not that William's father Thomas NICHOLS is shown in the 1881 census as having been born at Iron Acton. I have still not worked out how Mary can be William's aunt, however. I cannot find Arthur WATTS in the 1901 census. The 1881 census has Fred WATTS, age 12, born Slaughterford living at Hawkesbury with Alexander WATTS (68, born Cheltenham (?)) and described as his grandson. Fred is presumably Arthur WATTS's brother, but I cannot work out how Arthur can be the nephew of Isaac and Fred the grandson of Alexander. Perhaps Carole, with her encyclopaedic knowledge of the WATTS family can help. Finally, Elizabeth WALBRIDGE is a lodging-house keeper at a house in Royal Crescent, Bath in 1881, but does not appear to have any lodgers. All her neighbours are ex-colonial administrators and military or naval officers, which one might expect at such a prestigious address. What is going on? Think on't. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: anthony sharp [mailto:[email protected]] ¦Sent: 16 January 2004 20:26 ¦To: [email protected] ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL - WATTS - WALBRIDGE ¦ ¦ ¦Hi All, especially Bob ¦ ¦This also came from my cousin in Australia. I haven't seen the 1891 census ¦entry before. "Re Elizabeth Walbridge. In the 1881 Census ¦Elizabeth is at 29 ¦Royal Cresecent, Walcott, apparently a boarding house, and with her was ¦Alice Watts, niece 11 born Hillesly. Elizabeth is still at 29 ¦Royal Cresecnt ¦Walcott in the 1891 Census and with her were Alice Watts, niece 21 born ¦Kilcott, Arthur Watts, nephew 22 born Slaughterford and Mary ¦Toghill visitor ¦60 single born Iron Acton occupation Cook. ¦I think that Mary Toghill is the same Mary who was the housekeeper ¦for Isaac ¦Watts (1881 Census). Arthur Watts is the nephew who was with Isaac Watts in ¦the 1881 Census. I wonder if Isaac died and young Arthur and Mary Toghill ¦were 'taken on' by Elizabeth Walbridge; if my 'wonder' is right, then this ¦would strengthen the 'thought' that Elizabeth was the sister of ¦Isaac Watts" ¦Any thoughts? ¦ ¦Carole ¦ ______________________________

Hi Brian I have just looked at a copy of the original 1861 census and Mary Gulwell aged 2yrs was living with her mother and William. My connection to this family is through Elizabeth the sister of Jane Gulwell (nee Baker) who was my gggrandmother. Regards Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Hello, Alf (& Cynthia) Thanks for the spelling of Histfield = Hystfield. Robert extracted the info from the 1901 Census so either it was Histfield then or it was wrongly written/transcribed at the Census. I've looked at the map to see where this and the other villages are and am now that much wiser about the area! It might be worth getting Mary Ann GULWELL's birth certificate to see when she was born. She was baptised on 26 Dec 1858, 11 m and 13 days after Joseph was buried. She was described as being the daughter of Joseph and Jane. There may well be a few months between her birth and her baptism, in which case Joseph could be her father. George, baptised 25 Dec 1861, her brother, was described as son of Jane GULWELL. No father mentioned but his birth cert may well show more information. Some people did treat the two records differently, so it is possible that George's father is shown on the birth certificate but not in the parish records (which are much more public). I wonder if Cynthia would provide us with the full household for Jane (widow) in the 1861 census? She's already said that Jane's son William Baker is there, and presumably Mary Ann and Samuel GULWELL also? I've said previously that Samuel was Joseph's nephew. Actually he was his son by Joseph's second wife Mary who was buried at Hawkesbury on Sept 12 1852, just 9 m before his marriage to Jane. This is the same Samuel who was present in 1881 census so his age in 1861 would be 22. Joseph was 57 when he married Jane who was just 25. Incidentally Joseph was telling porkies about his age. The Rev even noted his stated age as 40, Joseph seemingly forgetting he had given his age as 48 in the 1851 census. Did he feel the age gap was too much? At his burial Joseph's age was recorded as 62 which fits nicely with his date of birth. Finally I'd be pleased to add your connections Alf., i.e ggf, gf and fathers' names and date such as you wish to disclose and to provide you with the GULWELL forbears of Joseph. Best wishes Brian (also a Gulwell descendant) living at Winsley, Wilts HOPES & GULWELL surnames- Guild of One Name Studies Main research: Gloucester; MORGAN; COOK; WHITE; GULLY; COLLAR/COLLER; CURNOCK; GLEEDSMART; FISHLOCK; HULBERT; BARRETT (Marshfield 1850 ONLY); OLIVE; AYLIFFE; FITZGERALD (Bristol 1840) London ; WILLIAM MORGAN/Newington 1880; Herefords; SANDERS/SAUNDERS; WOODHOUSE; LEIGHTON; BURTON; FOX; DAVIS; PREECE; WOMANS/WHOMANS; SHERIFFE; EWINS; SEABRIDGE; BOWKETT; Monmouth/Brecons; EDWARDS; FITZGERALD; HOPKINS; Swansea; FITZGERALD 1881; Ireland; DEEGAN; TUITE; KEALY; BOLGER

Hi to all, especially Carole Fresh from causing some serious damage this afternoon to my wife's car in an accident at a cross-roads in Tormarton, now seems a good time to throw in a few thoughts on the Toghill-Watts-Walbridge question. It certainly seems likely that Elizabeth WALBRIDGE is the same as the Elizabeth WATTS, who was baptised at Hawkesbury 27th February 1823, daughter of John WATTS and Jane nee PRITCHARD. I have only records of one Mary TOGHILL born Iron Acton at the right time, and there can surely be only one Arthur WATTS born Slaughterford about 1870. What is more difficult is working out why these people should be living together, who they are, and what happened to them. There is a death of Elizabeth Walbridge age 75 in Chipping Sodbury Reg District Jan-Mar 1898. She must be the right one. In 1901, there is a Mary TOGHILL living at Toghill Cottages (!), Doynton, age 75. She is living with William NICHOLS (38, born Doynton), his wife Mary (36, born Hawkesbury) and 5 children. Mary TOGHILL is described as "AUNT", which might indicate a connection in Hawkesbury were it not that William's father Thomas NICHOLS is shown in the 1881 census as having been born at Iron Acton. I have still not worked out how Mary can be William's aunt, however. I cannot find Arthur WATTS in the 1901 census. The 1881 census has Fred WATTS, age 12, born Slaughterford living at Hawkesbury with Alexander WATTS (68, born Cheltenham (?)) and described as his grandson. Fred is presumably Arthur WATTS's brother, but I cannot work out how Arthur can be the nephew of Isaac and Fred the grandson of Alexander. Perhaps Carole, with her encyclopaedic knowledge of the WATTS family can help. Finally, Elizabeth WALBRIDGE is a lodging-house keeper at a house in Royal Crescent, Bath in 1881, but does not appear to have any lodgers. All her neighbours are ex-colonial administrators and military or naval officers, which one might expect at such a prestigious address. What is going on? Think on't. Bob Lawrence ************************************** R.P.& A.L.Lawrence The Hazels, Sheepwood Road, Bristol, BS10 7BS, U.K. Phone: 0117 9504314 ************************************** ¦-----Original Message----- ¦From: anthony sharp [mailto:[email protected]] ¦Sent: 16 January 2004 20:26 ¦To: [email protected] ¦Subject: [HWK] TOGHILL - WATTS - WALBRIDGE ¦ ¦ ¦Hi All, especially Bob ¦ ¦This also came from my cousin in Australia. I haven't seen the 1891 census ¦entry before. "Re Elizabeth Walbridge. In the 1881 Census ¦Elizabeth is at 29 ¦Royal Cresecent, Walcott, apparently a boarding house, and with her was ¦Alice Watts, niece 11 born Hillesly. Elizabeth is still at 29 ¦Royal Cresecnt ¦Walcott in the 1891 Census and with her were Alice Watts, niece 21 born ¦Kilcott, Arthur Watts, nephew 22 born Slaughterford and Mary ¦Toghill visitor ¦60 single born Iron Acton occupation Cook. ¦I think that Mary Toghill is the same Mary who was the housekeeper ¦for Isaac ¦Watts (1881 Census). Arthur Watts is the nephew who was with Isaac Watts in ¦the 1881 Census. I wonder if Isaac died and young Arthur and Mary Toghill ¦were 'taken on' by Elizabeth Walbridge; if my 'wonder' is right, then this ¦would strengthen the 'thought' that Elizabeth was the sister of ¦Isaac Watts" ¦Any thoughts? ¦ ¦Carole ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== ¦When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: ¦and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be repeated. ¦ ¦============================== ¦Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration ¦Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. ¦http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ¦ ¦ ¦

Hi Brian The name Onesimus seems to have originated right back to Onesimus TAYLOR who's daughter Penelope married Charles BAKER in 1713 at Tockenham, Wilts. They called their first son Onesimus, it then missed a generation until we arrive at Onesimus in Hawkesbury. It makes researching so much easier with an unusual name !! Regards Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Hi Researchers I notice the name TUDOR / GULLWELL has got people buzzing up in the hills of Gloucestershire, well Awkesbury. A correction Histfield is spelt HYSTFIELD, having lived there for 45 years it was never spelt Histfield. My connection to Mary Ann Gullwell is my Grt Grt Grandmother, her father was Joseph, . Mary and George Tudor got married at All Saints, Stone, on the 16 May 1880, and Mary put Joseph as her father, the details were brief, and this record at the PRO Gloucester I do have a Tudors Tree and can bee seen on Rootsweb (worldconnect) If any person is connected to this union in any way I would like to hear from you many regard Alf Beard

Cynthia It's hard to imagine that the Hannah living with Onesimus could be other than his wife as she has the M symbol against her entry. Any idea where that name came from? I'm on the GULWELL tree. I was fascinated with Joseph's story. He had two wives previously and ended up with this young woman and they lost their first child. The program keeps telling me that Mary Ann and George were born too long after Joseph's death. I suspect that Joseph's nephew Sam who was living with the family may have had some contribution to the anomaly. They were still in the same house in 1881. Perhaps Joseph and Jane were married in name only? We'll never know. Brian

Cynthia, That's what I was hoping for. It seems fairly conclusive that William was her son from before her marriage to Joseph GULWELL, as shown in 1851 when Wm BAKER was 1 year old and living with Jane, Onesimus and Hannah. It doesn't rule out Joseph as the father because William along with Joseph and Samuel were strong names in the GULWELL family. I realise that William was also a very common name, but this juxtaposition points to a possibility and we know they weren't living together in 1851. It's all a lot tidier now. Brian

Brian Do you think that William was the son of Jane BAKER (GULWELL) who was a widow on the 1861 census but had her son William BAKER aged 11 living with her Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Hi Brian Sorry I made a mistake it was the 1891 census that I was looking at so this is not the same William BAKER sorry !! Cynthia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----