Hi Pat The name DAVIES caught my attention. My line were from Standish (next to Stroud) so could be related but not necessarily. Anyway, had a look through the index and could not find a George DAVIES from Stroud but did find a George DAVIS, aged 20 (a bit off, but not so far off that he should be ruled out) born in Stroud, living in Paganhill which is part of Stroud. I know that with my own DAVIS/DAVIES the "e" was added or removed frequently so you must always search both. Here is the entry, just in case: SECTION XV Pagans Hill Toll gate , Pagan Hill North West. Mayo's at Puckshole, Farm Hill, The Palins, Whiteshill including Mr George Hodges Houses Pages 24 Persons 216 Male 211 Female 427 Total Enumerator Samuel Browning END OF PAGANHILL 83 TITTE ??? William 41 Brewer Cellerman Randwick Elizabeth 46 Weaver Stroud DAVIS George SinL 20 Tailor Stroud Mary A 17 Weaver Stroud Ellen Grand Daughter 1m Stroud If you ever find that your DAVIS/DAVIES line have any link to Longney then we are no doubt related. Anyway, good luck with George. Karen Davies Vancouver, BC, Canada Researching in Hawkesbury: HOPKINS, WOODRUFF, HICKS, WHITWORTH, ROBERTSON, PITCHER

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10315151&wwwflag=2& imagepos=5 Here's a picture of one - curiosity got the better of me and I had to Google! -----Original Message----- From: Lee Paltridge [mailto:leeridge@vianet.net.au] Sent: 05 April 2005 04:41 To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] RE: A Digression Hello John I have an illustration of a man using a breast plough, described as "a large spade for removing turf, having a cross piece pushed from the breast". The drawing is tiny, less than an inch square, and faint with no detail of the implement itself, but you can see how it was pushed. I can scan and send you the page if you would like it, but as you have already seen the painting you already know what it looks like. My little picture comes from an illustrated dictionary edited by the great Arthur Mee, entitled "I See All" which was issued in the 1920s in periodical - I think fortnghtly - sections. My late mother-in-law collected them all as a teaching aid, containing 'a hundred thousand pictures', and had them bound into three large volumes. It's surprising how often I've used these books since I started on the family history trail. Cheers Lee Perth Oz -----Original Message----- From: john stinchcombe [mailto:johnst@waitrose.com] Sent: Monday, 4 April 2005 7:14 PM To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: A Digression Hello Folks, Our local lib has a book, Recording Britain, Mellor,Saunders,Wright,1990 describing a project to provide work for artists in early stages of WW2. An item in it which has puzzled me is a painting by A.S.Hartrick of Breast Plough at Tresham--he had lived there for c10 yrs around 1900. In his autobiog A Painters Pilgrimage,1939,he describes life in Edwardian Cotswolds and says he bought the Tresham plough and presented it to the Horniman Museum at Forest Hill, S London. Now I went to the Horniman and asked what they knew about it--young archivist blushed a little and said she would look into it, but heard no more. It may be tucked away in a warehouse of reserve stock,rarely visited,but was discouraged from pursuing this further. Massingham and Hennell,Country Relics,1939 discuss the use of this manually operated wooden implement for cleaning light land of stubble and weeds but have never been able to conjure up image of it going on in our domain--the real surprise is an implication that it went on into early 20c when we think of cultivation by horse about to give way to tractor Any thoughts would be welcome,and apologies if I've asked about it before! ps will return to issue of "how many Thos and Nicholas do we have" when present wave of worries is burnt out--my own line certainly has a couple of points where we have to take Options A or B,without a definitive answer, and I have to rest with that as a reality. bye js ______________________________ ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 01/04/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 01/04/2005

Hello John, May be the plough is stored at the Museum's Study Collection in Greenwich? Looking at the website for the Horniman Museum it says they have a 'computerised collections management system.' so they should know whether it's there or not! http://www.horniman.ac.uk/collections/objects.php Best wishes Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: "john stinchcombe" <johnst@waitrose.com> To: <ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:14 PM Subject: [HWK] A Digression > Hello Folks, > Our local lib has a book, Recording Britain, Mellor,Saunders,Wright,1990 > describing a project to provide work for artists in early stages of WW2. > An item in it which has puzzled me is a painting by > A.S.Hartrick of Breast Plough at Tresham--he had lived there for c10 yrs > around 1900. In his autobiog > A Painters Pilgrimage,1939,he describes life in Edwardian Cotswolds and > says he bought the Tresham plough and presented it to the Horniman Museum > at Forest Hill, S London. Now I went to the Horniman and asked what they > knew about it--young archivist blushed a little and said she would look > into it, but heard no more. It may be tucked away in a warehouse of > reserve stock,rarely visited,but was discouraged from pursuing this > further. > Massingham and Hennell,Country Relics,1939 discuss the use of this > manually operated wooden implement for cleaning light land of stubble and > weeds but have never been able to conjure up image of it going on in our > domain--the real surprise is an implication that it went on into early 20c > when we think of cultivation by horse about to give way to tractor > Any thoughts would be welcome,and apologies if I've asked about it > before! > > ps will return to issue of "how many Thos and Nicholas do we have" when > present wave of worries is burnt out--my own line certainly has a couple > of points where we have to take Options A or B,without a definitive > answer, and I have to rest with that as a reality. bye js > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in > CAPITALS. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Hi Jenny When I originally tried to sort the STINCHCOMBE's into some kind of digital order I had understood there was a line of 5 Thomas STINCHCOMBE's that the last Thomas had shown when in court to prove his claim to the major part of Chawkley manor these records are at Kew JS has seen them and made notes I seem to have miss-understood this as it appears there are 4 Thomas's and 1 Nicholas, I will be getting a digital copy of the pleadings some time this year. this next question also relates to the above Thomas (died 1557) married Elizabeth MARTIN dtr of Nicholas MARTIN, Nicholas MARTIN says so in his will of 1551 his post mortem inquisition also gives Elizabeth's age as 27 in 1551 and lists details of her 4 sisters as well, in his will of 1551 Nicholas MARTIN gives a bullock to his godson Nicholas STINCHCOMBE this must be the eldest child of Thomas and Elizabeth, he also gives a bullock to his godson Nicholas VIZARD son of Arthur and Katherine nee MARTIN so we can safely say in this case godson is grandson, my concern was that if we had a line of Thomas's (5 as I thought) why was Thomas not mentioned but as we now have a Nicholas this explains it, also means we can fairly accurately date births, if Nicholas S was alive in 1551 then if Thomas is second child he must be born between 1551 and 1556 as in 1557 Thomas has remarried to Mohanne BOWSER and become deceased (in that order I hope) this may also explain his Will where he only places the 3 elder children Nicholas, Thomas and Jane with his relies but Cicerley and John must have remained with Mohanne they were probably hers, given the time scale 1551-1556 unless Elizabeth had twins I can't really see her having 4 children. Nicholas S appeared in Hawkesbury 1575 as he is listed as a leading Juror on the parish court rolls for 20 years until 1595 again JS has researched this, To be in this position you would need to read and write and as the older court rolls are in Latin then presumably would need to be able to read Latin any scholar of this time would naturally be taught both as Latin was the official language of authority left over from the Roman invasion.Nicholas is referred to as a tenant of Stoke this is an area roughly between St Mary's and farm pool where the old manor house of Stoke once stood. William CREW was mentioned in Thomas's Will of 1557 where he asks Arthur CREW to take his daughter Jane but if he was not willing William CREW, William lived at Alderley, Jane was married at Alderley, William was the grandfather of Dorothy CREW who Nicholas S jnr married at Alderley in 1609 he later lived at Tortworth we know this because I found a marriage settlement for Mathew CREW grand son of William and nephew to Dorothy, Nicholas STINCHCOMBE jnr had signed and sealed the document as a co-bondsman and was described as a gent of Tortworth. "Q Thomas was brought up by Arthur VIZAR at Le Barnes Hawkesbury" Arthur VIZAR lived at a farm called "le Barnes" A picture of it is on my web site its next to the farm pool, near pool farm I think it is now called home farm? there is an explanation of how we know this under the picture. " Q we know by 1608 he is living in Wotton under edge, and when he dies he says he is leasing a house in Wotton Under Edge which he leaves the lease to son Nicholas (of Kilcott)" The 1608 Men and Armour lists Thomas STINCHCOMBE living a Wotton Under Edge, in his will 1623 he leaves his lease for his house in W-U-E where his wife now lives to Nicholas (of Kilcott) his son. hope that helps regards Robert Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk

Hello Folks, Our local lib has a book, Recording Britain, Mellor,Saunders,Wright,1990 describing a project to provide work for artists in early stages of WW2. An item in it which has puzzled me is a painting by A.S.Hartrick of Breast Plough at Tresham--he had lived there for c10 yrs around 1900. In his autobiog A Painters Pilgrimage,1939,he describes life in Edwardian Cotswolds and says he bought the Tresham plough and presented it to the Horniman Museum at Forest Hill, S London. Now I went to the Horniman and asked what they knew about it--young archivist blushed a little and said she would look into it, but heard no more. It may be tucked away in a warehouse of reserve stock,rarely visited,but was discouraged from pursuing this further. Massingham and Hennell,Country Relics,1939 discuss the use of this manually operated wooden implement for cleaning light land of stubble and weeds but have never been able to conjure up image of it going on in our domain--the real surprise is an implication that it went on into early 20c when we think of cultivation by horse about to give way to tractor Any thoughts would be welcome,and apologies if I've asked about it before! ps will return to issue of "how many Thos and Nicholas do we have" when present wave of worries is burnt out--my own line certainly has a couple of points where we have to take Options A or B,without a definitive answer, and I have to rest with that as a reality. bye js

Hi Robert, I'm afraid I'm getting tired and confused these days. Can we take take you (highly detailed) email a couple of points at a time. > I also understood we had a documented > line of 5 Thomas's linked to Chalkley, that's not the case we have > 4 Thomas's and a Nicholas. Can you expand of this - what is the connection of the Stinchcombe's to Chawkley, are what are the sources of this information. > Thomas of Tortworth who died 1557 had 5 children we know from > Nicholas MARTENS will he left something to Nicholas > but nothing to any other child which because I thought there were 5 > Thomas's was a little odd no mention of Thomas. Two thoughts on this. Maybe the other grandchildren were born between 1551 and 1557. Second thought is that Nicholas Marten's will refers to "Nicholas Stynchcombe by godson". We have often seen the terms godson and grandson used almost interchangeably. However, I have also seen it used in a way that implies godson in the modern sense. Maybe it was common or traditional to name grandparents as godparents. This would explain the singling out of Nicholas amongst his grandchildren - this grandchild being the only one who was also his godson. I'm certain that in those days the position of a godparent was taken far more seriously than it is today. These are just my thoughts, and I defer to others who have greater knowledge in this area. > We have a Nicholas STINCHCOMBE appearing in Hawkesbury in 1575 and where do we ge this information? > we know he is a tenant at Stoke in Hawkesbury and almost certainly > able to read and write and probably fluent in Latin he must be born where does the Stoke stuff come from and how do we know he could read and write and was probably fluent in Latin? > William CREW of Alderley who may be the William CREW mentioned by > Thomas d1557 Nicholas Junior we know later lived in Tortworth and > is referred to as a gent of Tortworth in 1634. when/where was William Crew mentioned by Thoms? Which Nicholas are we talking about and how do we know he later lived in Tortworth (where is the reference to him as a gent of Tortworth?) > Thomas was brought up by Arthur VIZAR at Le Barnes Hawkesbury but how do we have the Le Barnes connection? Does anyone have a high scale map of Hawkesbury, showing these farms. The only one I have is the Ordinance Survey Explorer serier 2.5 inches to 1 mile map > we know by 1608 he is living in Wotton under edge, and when he dies > he says he is leasing a house in Wotton Under Edge which he leaves > the lease to son Nicholas (of Kilcott) > source? I think that is enough to question for this email. Further questions will follow as my brain absorbs it all. Regards Jenny P.S. Tommy (who is my son for those of you who don't know) is doing really well at his new school. We have transferred him to a private school (called a public school in England) starting at Year 5. I am really happy with the school - they really seems to care about the boys, and they really don't tolerate bullying (Tommy had always been a victim of bullying at his old school). The school is managing to bring out so much in him, and encourage him to put in the effort to show what he is capable of! And - very importantly - he is still interested in his family history!! -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Hi Martin here they are in Newent Higb street about 8 doors down from the Crown Inn on the opposite side of it from Park lane 1960 0175037 High Street SWIFT Edward HD M 40 Labourer SOM Bedminster 1960 0175037 High Street SWIFT Sophia WI M 40 Seamstress GLS Hasfield 1960 0175037 High Street HATCH James - M 26 Labourer GLS Hartpury 1960 0175037 High Street HATCH Sarah - M 24 Seamstress HEF Ledbury 1960 0175037 High Street HATCH Mary Ann - U 4 Scholar GLS Newent 1960 0175037 High Street HATCH James - U 4M - GLS Newent 1960 0175037 High Street PREEDY James - U 22 Tailor GLS Newent 1960 0175037 High Street SANDY John - U 31 Labourer HEF Ledbury 1960 0175037 High Street SANDY Mary - U 30 Seamstress HEF Ledbury regards Robert Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Yerbury" <martin@connections.cdsinternet.com> To: <ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [HWK] 1851 census > Hi folks; if anyone has the 1851 census for Gloucestershire on CD could I > beg a huge favour? I'm having a bit of trouble making sense of part of my > wife's Tree and it would be useful if someone had Newent (RG8 pce 1960) - > Gordon Beavington hasn't given us the folio number but the household in > question looks like this on his ts: > > (Newent, Glos. section VI) schedule #37 > > SWIFT Edward 40 Labourer Bedminster > > Sophia Seamstress Hasfield > > HATCH James 26 Labourer Hartpury > > Sarah 24 Seamstress Ledbury > > Mary Ann 4 Scholar Newent > > James 4m Newent > > PREEDY James 22 Tailor Newent > > SANDY John 31 Labourer Ledbury > > SANDY Mary 20+ Seamstress Ledbury > > > I know it's rather out of area, but any assistance would be greatly > appreciated. > > Regards and thanks in advance > > Martin Yerbury > > PS a note for STINCHCOMB(E) watchers - we've now identified the man who > married Sarah STINCHCOMBE, d/o Joseph & Caroline (Hamonds); he was Edward > ANDREWS born Hawkesbury 1854 s/o James a Bootmaker & Rachel (née Arthurs) > and they wed at Stroud Register Office in 1879 so Robert, your prediction > seems to have come about - the ANDREWS/ARTHURS connection lives on. > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: and > Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be repeated. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

Hi Jenny We should be constantly reviewing all the early stuff as we find more little snippets to add, when I first compiled my tree it was to try and solve some of the confusion but with so many Thomas and Nicholas's its a problem, I also understood we had a documented line of 5 Thomas's linked to Chalkley, that's not the case we have 4 Thomas's and a Nicholas. Unfortunately we only have a series of facts we are lacking the evidence to link them in an absolute way, we may not ever be able to do so, we do know certain facts Thomas of Tortworth who died 1557 had 5 children we know from Nicholas MARTENS will he left something to Nicholas but nothing to any other child which because I thought there were 5 Thomas's was a little odd no mention of Thomas. In Thomas will of 1557 we see he requests Arthur VIZAR his brother in law has Thomas, John SERNEY of Tortworth is to have Nicholas and Arthur CREW or if not willing William CREW to have Jane. We have a Nicholas STINCHCOMBE appearing in Hawkesbury in 1575 and we know he is a tenant at Stoke in Hawkesbury and almost certainly able to read and write and probably fluent in Latin he must be born abt 1545-1550, in 1608 we know only Nicholas and son Nicholas are listed in Hawkesbury this must be Nicholas above and his son Nicholas who was a young man, he married Dorothy CREW in Alderley in 1609 and had a son Mathew, Dorothy is the grand daughter of William CREW of Alderley who may be the William CREW mentioned by Thomas d1557 Nicholas Junior we know later lived in Tortworth and is referred to as a gent of Tortworth in 1634. Thomas was brought up by Arthur VIZAR at Le Barnes Hawkesbury but we know by 1608 he is living in Wotton under edge, and when he dies he says he is leasing a house in Wotton Under Edge which he leaves the lease to son Nicholas (of Kilcott) The reason I placed Edith as wife of Nicholas is Nicholas is clearly leasing 3 acres of land in Hawkesbury by 1600 and there appears to be no other STINCHCOMBE's in Hawkesbury if Edith is not his wife and she can't be his sister if this is Nicholas senior. At that date1600 its probably to early to be Nicholas junior he would probably not be of legal age, the John mentioned might be a son but could also be John the younger brother of Nicholas we also have and early marriage of 1609 at Hawkesbury for Jane S the logical parent for her is Nicholas he had a sister Jane, this cannot be his sisters marriage as she married at Alderley in 1562 consistent with being raised by the CREW family of Alderley. The problem I have is with the line of in heritance of the Chawkley Estate it is divided into 5, a part to each MARTIN daughter if Nicholas is in Hawkesbury in 1575 and is the elder son of Thomas and Elizabeth nee MARTIN why is he leasing 3 acres he should own a fair bit more?, plus the three acres he is leasing is from the portion that Alice ELEY nee MARTIN his aunt was in control of and was sold to John BRIDGES of Nind Kingswood who in 1600 is selling to Lawrence ALWAY who was leasing from Alice and it appears in occupation of Chawkley manor house at or before this date. Nicholas died 1624 or did he? this could be Nicholas of Kilcott, as chancellery documents say Nicholas died a year before Thomas which would be 1621?. So how did Thomas in 1622 get so much of Chawkley much more that a fifth, and why if Nicholas senior was the elder brother why did Thomas inherit when Nicholas had a son Nicholas junior. Another little bit of info John BRIDGES above (who Nicholas is leasing from) his eldest daughter Alice married William CREW brother of Dorothy the wife of Nicholas junior. If we had it all worked out already what would be left for our descendants to find. regards Robert Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Joyce" <jenny.joyce@writeme.com> To: <ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [HWK] Nicholas Stinchcombe - MORE > Hi Doug, > > So it looks like most of what I have about Nicholas (son of Thomas and > Elizabeth Marten) is wild speculation (at best). We know he exists from > his father's will, where it is requested that John Serney raise him. This > is presumably what moves him from Tortworth to Hawkesbury. > > Thereafter I have the following speculation. > > Married Edith. Had a son Nicholas, a daughter Jane and a son John. Is > possibly/probably the Nicholas mentioned in Men and Armour in 1608. > Buried in 16624. None of the dates for these events is in the parish > register - haven't checked the BTs yet. > > SO.... SAS/PB/808 *suggests* he was married to Edith and had a son John. > > As far as ages of the subject of these documents, when I look at > SAS/PN/957, I think this must refer to Samuel, the son of Thomas and > Elizabeth Neale bap 1646, which makes him about 11 at the time of this > lease. Now, from what I have read about leases for the term of 3 lives, > adding someone young to the lease name would not be strange, however, this > is a lease for the term of 2000 years and Samuel is the only person to > whom the lease is assigned. > > This is making my brain hurt! > > Jenny > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Thompson" <doug.thompson@virgin.net> > To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HWK] Nicholas Stinchcombe - MORE > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:34:42 +0100 > >> >> Hi Jenny >> >> My comments are interspersed - >> >> > >> > Hmm... looking at what I have put together in my database I seem to >> > have >> > Edith's coming out of my ears! Apart from having one married to >> > Nicholas of >> > Killcott, I've got one married to Nicholas son of Thomas and Elizabeth >> > Marten >> > - is that who you meant by the Nicholas b before 1557? >> >> Yes >> >> > Do we have any idea of which Nicholas or John SAS/PN/808 refers to? It >> > says >> > "And also a parcel of coppice of wood and wood ground containing 3 >> > acres in >> > Hawkesburye in the occupation of Nichs. Stinchcombe and Edith >> > Stinchcombe and >> > Jhon Stinchcombe" >> >> Only speculation based on the known possibilities. >> >> > >> > By my reckoning there are 2 Nicholas's alive and possibly in Hawkesbury >> > at >> > this date - first the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten >> >> Agreed >> >> > and second the son of >> > Nicholas (who is the also the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten). The >> > 2nd >> > one married Dorithy Crewe in 1607. >> >> I have yet to see any evidence for this son of Nicholas - so he's not in >> my >> files. The marrriage to Dorithy is A Nicholas, but which one is unclear. >> >> > The second Nicholas has a brother John. >> >> I think you'll find this John is a speculation, based on an >> interpretation >> of SAS/PN/808. >> >> > The first one had one, who lived at Avening, who had died in 1569. >> > >> > So it looks to me like we have 2 options - >> > >> > the Nicholas and John mentioned in this Bargain and Sale where the >> > grandsons >> > of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten. Edith is not likely to be Nicholas's >> > wife, >> > since Nicholas married in 1607 and there is no death of an Edith >> > in Hawkesbury >> > before that. That leaves 2 options. First, she is their sister >> > or second she >> > is their mother. >> > >> > Second option is that the document refers to the first Nicholas >> > above, and his >> > son John, and his wife or daughter Edith. >> >> >> Even if the son Nicholas exists I think he might be too young to be the >> subject. The way the occupation of the ground is described sounds to me >> more >> like a man, his wife and son than anything else. So the second option is >> the >> one I go for. The first relies on too much speculation for me. Having >> said >> that, the second option is speculative too. I keep it as a note, hinting >> at >> a wife Edith and a son John for this Nicholas, but awaiting confirmation. >> >> > This is all so complicated! How I wish they'd been more original with >> > names! >> >> But then it would be too easy!! >> >> Best wishes >> >> Doug >> >> >> ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== >> Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in >> CAPITALS. >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in > CAPITALS. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Hi folks; if anyone has the 1851 census for Gloucestershire on CD could I beg a huge favour? I'm having a bit of trouble making sense of part of my wife's Tree and it would be useful if someone had Newent (RG8 pce 1960) - Gordon Beavington hasn't given us the folio number but the household in question looks like this on his ts: (Newent, Glos. section VI) schedule #37 SWIFT Edward 40 Labourer Bedminster Sophia Seamstress Hasfield HATCH James 26 Labourer Hartpury Sarah 24 Seamstress Ledbury Mary Ann 4 Scholar Newent James 4m Newent PREEDY James 22 Tailor Newent SANDY John 31 Labourer Ledbury SANDY Mary 20+ Seamstress Ledbury I know it's rather out of area, but any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Regards and thanks in advance Martin Yerbury PS a note for STINCHCOMB(E) watchers - we've now identified the man who married Sarah STINCHCOMBE, d/o Joseph & Caroline (Hamonds); he was Edward ANDREWS born Hawkesbury 1854 s/o James a Bootmaker & Rachel (née Arthurs) and they wed at Stroud Register Office in 1879 so Robert, your prediction seems to have come about - the ANDREWS/ARTHURS connection lives on.

Hi Doug, So it looks like most of what I have about Nicholas (son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten) is wild speculation (at best). We know he exists from his father's will, where it is requested that John Serney raise him. This is presumably what moves him from Tortworth to Hawkesbury. Thereafter I have the following speculation. Married Edith. Had a son Nicholas, a daughter Jane and a son John. Is possibly/probably the Nicholas mentioned in Men and Armour in 1608. Buried in 16624. None of the dates for these events is in the parish register - haven't checked the BTs yet. SO.... SAS/PB/808 *suggests* he was married to Edith and had a son John. As far as ages of the subject of these documents, when I look at SAS/PN/957, I think this must refer to Samuel, the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Neale bap 1646, which makes him about 11 at the time of this lease. Now, from what I have read about leases for the term of 3 lives, adding someone young to the lease name would not be strange, however, this is a lease for the term of 2000 years and Samuel is the only person to whom the lease is assigned. This is making my brain hurt! Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Thompson" <doug.thompson@virgin.net> To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HWK] Nicholas Stinchcombe - MORE Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:34:42 +0100 > > Hi Jenny > > My comments are interspersed - > > > > > Hmm... looking at what I have put together in my database I seem to have > > Edith's coming out of my ears! Apart from having one married to Nicholas of > > Killcott, I've got one married to Nicholas son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten > > - is that who you meant by the Nicholas b before 1557? > > Yes > > > Do we have any idea of which Nicholas or John SAS/PN/808 refers to? It says > > "And also a parcel of coppice of wood and wood ground containing 3 acres in > > Hawkesburye in the occupation of Nichs. Stinchcombe and Edith Stinchcombe and > > Jhon Stinchcombe" > > Only speculation based on the known possibilities. > > > > > By my reckoning there are 2 Nicholas's alive and possibly in Hawkesbury at > > this date - first the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten > > Agreed > > > and second the son of > > Nicholas (who is the also the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten). The 2nd > > one married Dorithy Crewe in 1607. > > I have yet to see any evidence for this son of Nicholas - so he's not in my > files. The marrriage to Dorithy is A Nicholas, but which one is unclear. > > > The second Nicholas has a brother John. > > I think you'll find this John is a speculation, based on an interpretation > of SAS/PN/808. > > > The first one had one, who lived at Avening, who had died in 1569. > > > > So it looks to me like we have 2 options - > > > > the Nicholas and John mentioned in this Bargain and Sale where the grandsons > > of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten. Edith is not likely to be Nicholas's wife, > > since Nicholas married in 1607 and there is no death of an Edith > > in Hawkesbury > > before that. That leaves 2 options. First, she is their sister > > or second she > > is their mother. > > > > Second option is that the document refers to the first Nicholas > > above, and his > > son John, and his wife or daughter Edith. > > > Even if the son Nicholas exists I think he might be too young to be the > subject. The way the occupation of the ground is described sounds to me more > like a man, his wife and son than anything else. So the second option is the > one I go for. The first relies on too much speculation for me. Having said > that, the second option is speculative too. I keep it as a note, hinting at > a wife Edith and a son John for this Nicholas, but awaiting confirmation. > > > This is all so complicated! How I wish they'd been more original with names! > > But then it would be too easy!! > > Best wishes > > Doug > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Quoting Jenny Joyce <jenny.joyce@writeme.com>: > (I haven't yet double checked the documents in the SAS/PN archive) What is the SAS/PN archive? I have never heard of it before.

Hi Jenny My comments are interspersed - > > Hmm... looking at what I have put together in my database I seem to have > Edith's coming out of my ears! Apart from having one married to Nicholas of > Killcott, I've got one married to Nicholas son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten > - is that who you meant by the Nicholas b before 1557? Yes > Do we have any idea of which Nicholas or John SAS/PN/808 refers to? It says > "And also a parcel of coppice of wood and wood ground containing 3 acres in > Hawkesburye in the occupation of Nichs. Stinchcombe and Edith Stinchcombe and > Jhon Stinchcombe" Only speculation based on the known possibilities. > > By my reckoning there are 2 Nicholas's alive and possibly in Hawkesbury at > this date - first the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten Agreed > and second the son of > Nicholas (who is the also the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten). The 2nd > one married Dorithy Crewe in 1607. I have yet to see any evidence for this son of Nicholas - so he's not in my files. The marrriage to Dorithy is A Nicholas, but which one is unclear. > The second Nicholas has a brother John. I think you'll find this John is a speculation, based on an interpretation of SAS/PN/808. > The first one had one, who lived at Avening, who had died in 1569. > > So it looks to me like we have 2 options - > > the Nicholas and John mentioned in this Bargain and Sale where the grandsons > of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten. Edith is not likely to be Nicholas's wife, > since Nicholas married in 1607 and there is no death of an Edith in Hawkesbury > before that. That leaves 2 options. First, she is their sister or second she > is their mother. > > Second option is that the document refers to the first Nicholas above, and his > son John, and his wife or daughter Edith. Even if the son Nicholas exists I think he might be too young to be the subject. The way the occupation of the ground is described sounds to me more like a man, his wife and son than anything else. So the second option is the one I go for. The first relies on too much speculation for me. Having said that, the second option is speculative too. I keep it as a note, hinting at a wife Edith and a son John for this Nicholas, but awaiting confirmation. > This is all so complicated! How I wish they'd been more original with names! But then it would be too easy!! Best wishes Doug

Jenny I agree all - except I have baptism date 20 Feb 1633 for Thomas (from IGI). Doug on 31/3/05 9:28 am, Jenny Joyce at jenny.joyce@writeme.com wrote: > Hi Doug, > > OK, so this is what I have for Nicholas of Kilcott... please check and see if > you agree. > > Born 1608 (I have this date from Robert - I have no baptism or confirmation of > this date) > 2 Nov 1630 - bap of son Nicholas > 22 May 1632 - bap of d Sarah > 30 Apr 1633 - bap of s Thomas > 2 Feb 1635/6 - bap of s Nathaniell > 16 Jan 1637 - bap of s Rebekah > 21 Oct 1639 - bap s John > 29 Dec 1666 - burial >

Hi Doug, Hmm... looking at what I have put together in my database I seem to have Edith's coming out of my ears! Apart from having one married to Nicholas of Killcott, I've got one married to Nicholas son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten - is that who you meant by the Nicholas b before 1557? > > By the way,in your original post you referred to your Nicholas2 as "Nicholas > the son of Nicholas of Kilcott and Edith". You seem to have your Edith in > the wrong place. We have no name for a wife of Nicholas of Kilcott. Edith > may have been the wife or sister of Nicholas (b bef. 1557) of Thomas and > Elizabeth. Nicholas of Kilcott was b ca 1608, son of (another) Thomas and > Joanne. The mention of Edith is in SAS/PN/808 dated 1600. Do we have any idea of which Nicholas or John SAS/PN/808 refers to? It says "And also a parcel of coppice of wood and wood ground containing 3 acres in Hawkesburye in the occupation of Nichs. Stinchcombe and Edith Stinchcombe and Jhon Stinchcombe" By my reckoning there are 2 Nicholas's alive and possibly in Hawkesbury at this date - first the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten and second the son of Nicholas (who is the also the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten). The 2nd one married Dorithy Crewe in 1607. The second Nicholas has a brother John. The first one had one, who lived at Avening, who had died in 1569. So it looks to me like we have 2 options - the Nicholas and John mentioned in this Bargain and Sale where the grandsons of Thomas and Elizabeth Marten. Edith is not likely to be Nicholas's wife, since Nicholas married in 1607 and there is no death of an Edith in Hawkesbury before that. That leaves 2 options. First, she is their sister or second she is their mother Second option is that the document refers to the first Nicholas above, and his son John, and his wife or daughter Edith. This is all so complicated! How I wish they'd been more original with names! Jenny -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Sorry, it's the Archives of the Portman Family of Buxted Place, held at the East Sussex Record Office - the reference code is SAS/PN. You can see it via A2A or on Robert's web site (choose "Documents Index" from the menu bar on the left) Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: adslmllu@tpg.com.au To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HWK] Nicholas Stinchcombe - MORE Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:49:32 +1000 > > Quoting Jenny Joyce <jenny.joyce@writeme.com>: > > > > (I haven't yet double checked the documents in the SAS/PN archive) > > What is the SAS/PN archive? > I have never heard of it before. > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: > and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be > repeated. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Sorry, yes, you are right - I typed that up wrong > Jenny > > I agree all - except I have baptism date 20 Feb 1633 for Thomas (from IGI). > > Doug > > on 31/3/05 9:28 am, Jenny Joyce at jenny.joyce@writeme.com wrote: > > > Hi Doug, > > > > OK, so this is what I have for Nicholas of Kilcott... please > > check and see if > > you agree. > > > > Born 1608 (I have this date from Robert - I have no baptism or > > confirmation of > > this date) > > 2 Nov 1630 - bap of son Nicholas > > 22 May 1632 - bap of d Sarah > > 30 Apr 1633 - bap of s Thomas > > 2 Feb 1635/6 - bap of s Nathaniell > > 16 Jan 1637 - bap of s Rebekah > > 21 Oct 1639 - bap s John > > 29 Dec 1666 - burial > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: > and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be > repeated. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Hi Doug, OK, so this is what I have for Nicholas of Kilcott... please check and see if you agree. Born 1608 (I have this date from Robert - I have no baptism or confirmation of this date) 2 Nov 1630 - bap of son Nicholas 22 May 1632 - bap of d Sarah 30 Apr 1633 - bap of s Thomas 2 Feb 1635/6 - bap of s Nathaniell 16 Jan 1637 - bap of s Rebekah 21 Oct 1639 - bap s John 29 Dec 1666 - burial (I haven't yet double checked the documents in the SAS/PN archive) Regards Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Thompson" <doug.thompson@virgin.net> To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HWK] Nicholas Stinchcombe - MORE Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:09:14 +0100 > > > Jenny, > > The way Bigland is arranged, it looks like one tomb. This was a tomb in the > churchyard which does not appear on recent surveys so it is long gone I > think. > > By the way,in your original post you referred to your Nicholas2 as "Nicholas > the son of Nicholas of Kilcott and Edith". You seem to have your Edith in > the wrong place. We have no name for a wife of Nicholas of Kilcott. Edith > may have been the wife or sister of Nicholas (b bef. 1557) of Thomas and > Elizabeth. Nicholas of Kilcott was b ca 1608, son of (another) Thomas and > Joanne. The mention of Edith is in SAS/PN/808 dated 1600. > > > Also, what are the details of the Admon of Thomas 1737? Who was > > Administration granted to - his son Nicholas? > > Yes. > > > Doug > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: > and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be > repeated. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

I have finally been working my way through the ACDB images of the 1841 census and I have found a HULBERT who is new to me, in a household in Hillesley as follows: Nicholas Cornuck 55 Yeoman Mary 55 Hester 20 William 19 Samuel Shipton 50 MS Henry White 19 MS Hannah Logett 29 FS Jane Hulbert 15 FS born in county She may be from a completely different family of course, but it isn't exactly a common name! I was wondering if anyone had any idea who this Jane may be. Thanks Marilyn

Jenny, The way Bigland is arranged, it looks like one tomb. This was a tomb in the churchyard which does not appear on recent surveys so it is long gone I think. By the way,in your original post you referred to your Nicholas2 as "Nicholas the son of Nicholas of Kilcott and Edith". You seem to have your Edith in the wrong place. We have no name for a wife of Nicholas of Kilcott. Edith may have been the wife or sister of Nicholas (b bef. 1557) of Thomas and Elizabeth. Nicholas of Kilcott was b ca 1608, son of (another) Thomas and Joanne. The mention of Edith is in SAS/PN/808 dated 1600. > Also, what are the details of the Admon of Thomas 1737? Who was > Administration granted to - his son Nicholas? Yes. Doug

Hi everyone, I've found my transcription of Bigland now. I agree, the only Thomas we have bapt in the parish church in Hawkesbury at this time was the son of Nehemiah, and there is no record of the baptism of a Thomas son of Nicholas (though we know he exists from his father's will). I also agree it is unlikley that a second cousin would be in the family grave, but... The wording I have of the MI is this... Here lyeth the body of John Stinch- comb of this Parish, Yeoman who Departed this Life the last Day of December, Anno Dom 1723, Aetat. Fuae 71. Also in Memory of Martha Stinchcombe, Widdow Who was buried May the 22nd in 1696 Here lyeth the Body of Thomas Stinchcombe Who departed this life Dec 14 1737 Aged 64 years Could these be 2 separate MIs, because the 3rd entry is not an "Also..." which is most common when another person is in the same grave/tomb? Could someone have a look to check it out? Also, what are the details of the Admon of Thomas 1737? Who was Administration granted to - his son Nicholas? Regards Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Millard" <robert@hawkesburyhistory.co.uk> To: ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWK] Nicholas Stinchcombe - MORE Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:44:18 -0000 > > Hi Doug > I should have put my specs on to read the small print in Biglands > it is 1737, but I still think this the brother of John , I cant see > a 2nd cousin being buried with his aunt when we have a son of the > same name. > There is something odd though Thomas is a lot younger but if you > notice the wording in their fathers will he calls John " my natural > son" and makes a point "he must pay his brother Thomas my son". > The other problem is Thomas son of Nehemiah was brought up as a > Quaker they were not very popular at the time would you place a > second cousin Quaker in a tomb with your old mum? > The most conclusive bit of evidence we have is the Admon of Thomas > STINCHCOMBE 1737 which his son Nicholas is mentioned as he is in > Johns Will of 1724 Nicholas signs this document very confidently, > where as on the admon of Nehemiah neither his wife or son could > sign their names. > regards > Robert > Visit my web pages at http://www.hawkesburyhistory.co.uk > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Thompson" <doug.thompson@virgin.net> > To: <ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:16 PM > Subject: Re: [HWK] Nicholas Stinchcombe - MORE > > > > Robert, > > > > On further reflection, once Thomas' birth goes to ca 1673 he looks a lot > > more like the one who was baptised 20 Jun 1672 with father Nehemiah. > > > > That means he is the 2nd cousin of the John in the tomb. > > > > If so, that leaves a burial in 1728 for John's brother Thomas. > > > > ??? > > > > Doug > > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > > Please remember when you post messages that SURNAMES should be in CAPITALS. > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn > > more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > > ==== ENG-GLO-HAWKESBURY Mailing List ==== > When replying to messages please make sure to remove ALL the "Re: > and Hawks" bits in the subject line as otherwise these will be > repeated. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and > friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm