Hello, How confusing our county system can be, even for people who live here in the UK, let alone those who live elsewhere in the world! I must admit that I had never heard of Hullshire, or of Hull being a county. A "Google" search for Hullshire led me to a website about the history of the village of Kirk Ella, at: http://www.homestead.com/kirkellaandwestella/Kirkhistory.html which includes the following: "We find that 'Kirk-Elley' as the village was referred to in 1440, together with other local villages formed the County of Hullshire...." What seems strange is that (as far as I know) there is no Chapman code for Hullshire, and it doesn't appear as a county on the 1881 Census, on the website of the Association of British Counties, on the "ParLoc" program, or indeed on any other source listing UK counties which I have seen. I am certainly not saying that Colin is wrong, but I just wonder if the word "county", when used in phrases like "City and County of" means something different to what it does when used to describe places such as Essex, Worcestershire or Cornwall. Was it perhaps an early version of what we now refer to as unitary authorities? There is a downloadable map at: http://www.budd.karoo.net/Eriding.jpg It is dated 1884, and entitled "Map of the East Riding of Yorkshire. Shewing the Boundaries of Holderness & Hullshire." That title, plus the fact the words "East Riding" on the map itself extend over the parts shown as "Holdernesss" and "Hullshire" would seem to indicate that Hullshire and Holderness were parts (subdivisions?) of the East Riding of Yorkshire. Just a small point, which I only mention hopefully to avoid further confusion - Colin wrote: "The same Genuki page also tells you that Hull (or Hullshire) is a county." If we are both talking about the same page (Part 1 of "A History of Hull") then the words about Hullshire/Hull being a county, are, like the whole page, quoted from "A History of Kingston on Hull" from Bulmer's Gazetteer, dated 1892. I am fairly certain that there is no longer a county called "Hullshire". Thanks, Colin, for pointing out where Sunk Island is - I have now also seen it on the downlowdable map I mentioned above. David Lamb (Paignton, Devon, UK) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Hinson" <Colin@blunham.demon.co.uk> To: <ENG-EAST-YORKS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 11:20 AM Subject: [ERY] ERY] Re: Parish > Hi Folks, > Sorry to come a bit late in this subject - I've been ill with some awful > viral infection and have been ignoring all but the most urgent emails. > > To try to clarify a few things: > A quick look at the Genuki page for Hull would have told you that until > 1897, Hull was a town and not a city, therefore any records before that > date would refer to a town. The same Genuki page also tells you that > Hull (or Hullshire) is a county. > > There are several expressions used in these circumstances: > In the county of itself. > In the county of its (own) name > In the county of said town > and others. > > It is therefore a reasonable conclusion (as has been suggested by several > people) that the line reads > In the county of said town. > > Dave: Sunk Island is the area of reclaimed land to the south of Patrington > -originally extra-parochial, but later a parish. > > Best wishes, > Colin Hinson > > In the village of Blunham in Bedfordshire U.K. > Webmaster for the Genuki Yorkshire pages: > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > Rare Books on CD: http://www.blunham.demon.co.uk/CDroms/ > Baine's & Bulmers directories, History of Craven, Heywood/Northowram, > National gazetteer of G.B & Ireland, Whelan's York & NRY > Hunter's Hallamshire (Sheffield), Yorkshire: Past and Present > Poulson's Holderness, Turner's Brighouse, etc etc > > ______________________________