Hi Kathy I believe as late as the 1930s these were commonly used medical definitions in hospitals. In 1974 Mencap published a book "Tongue Tied" by John Joseph Deacon. Following a severe fall as an infant and the death of his mother, his father had to place him in an institution. He was unable to communicate until years later he met another man who could understand him. This was realted to another man who typed the story. Horizon produced a superb film, called I believe "Joey" about his life and at one stage he was being examined by doctors. One said, "Wel he's not an idiot and he's not an imbecile so he must be a cretin" Otherwise he wouldn't be there. (I am not sure exactly which condition was agreed. The book is till available from Amazon but I suspect the Horizon problem has long gone. This programme had a profound effect on me as I worked in adult education and provided courses in a Cheshire Home and later in hospitals for people with learning disabilities. I am very vocal myself and this helped me to see that people I could not understand were not to be seen as incapable. Here are two definitions: Idiot A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. Imbecile A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision. Robi Wainwright - Bristol UK

On 2 Sep 2005 at 8:04, Robin Wainwright wrote: > Here are two definitions: > > Idiot > A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three > years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard > against > common dangers. > > Imbecile > A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of > from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of > communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision. This is a difficult area as these two definitions could apply to those who are simply deaf with speech difficulties. These deaf people cannot in any way be described by either of the two definitions. Unfortunately when people meet deaf people they think they have no intelligence whatsoever. There are deaf people around who have managed to get a good education and even obtain a PhD but are still treated as of low intelligence. Victor