Thanks Anne, I did go to your site and found out the information on John Robert Boret. I too saw his father listed at the bottom. I could not bring up any details about his father Jack though, because he was not a casualty, but saw several initials indication his flying status all over the world. I am guessing that I could find him in Australia. Not much on his wife. But , if I can find Jack Boret, I gather that I can get a hold of his birth certificate. I have my suspicion as to his son he is. Talking to my mother, she thinks he was not my grandmothers son but in fact my grandfathers. He according to my mother was quite the ladies man. Hmmmm more skeletons in the closet yet to come out! Could this once again be another reason why my grandmother was so hush hush.... On my fathers last visit to see his cousins, the story came up about Jack and it took my father by complete surprise, thinking he may have a half brother somewhere. He approached his cousin Patrick who he was staying with and all that he said was: " There are things we just do not talk about!" Hmmmmm..... huge red flag that is screaming......... he does exist. Now we see he did!! My cousin Angela who was there for the whole conversation took my dad aside and told her all she had heard via her mother growing up. Insisting that he does exist. So with this, I began talking to my cousin Mark with the oldest living sister still alive 85 now to see what he heard growing up. This is all that I told you. Just that Jack's son, John Robert was shot down over Japan, his father meeting him in the 2nd WW being told this directly by Jack. We have members in the family that were pilots on both sides of my fathers family, flying in the 1st and 2nd WW. Another member was a Warr-Ki! ng, I think Dudley or something shot down over Hamburg Germany. This is my maiden name, but the darn hyphen has made it nearly impossible to find any Warr-King family. They exist at grave sites but actually tracking them over seas is impossible . Good stuff, Thanks again Anne, you are certainly brilliant at digging the dirt up Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne Hamilton<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com> To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS Hi Lori, Definitely more exciting than housework - actually having said that I did make some home-made bread today! I read your message with interest. The mention of a Boret serving and being killed during the 2nd WW prompted me to have a look at the Commonwealth Wargraves Commission website. If you haven't already been there, go to http://www.cwgc.org/<http://www.cwgc.org/> On the home page you'll see a search form. Type in boret into the surname box and click search. You'll get one result from WW1 and one from WW2. If you click on the name, you will get more details of the casualty. Do you think that Robert John Boret might be the son of Jack? You can click on the View details button and it will give you details of the cemetery. It might not be the right one of course - it's very easy to assume things when doing genealogy and sometimes they can be totally innacurate so proceed with caution. I'm still working on that idea that I had about your family and if I come to any conclusions, I'll get back to you. Regards Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com> To: Anne Hamilton<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS I just got off the phone with my dad. His memory is not the best. He is the youngest of his siblings and his last remaining sister is 85 years old. Since he was pretty much left out of the loop because his mother wanted to share nothing about her family. His father dying when he was 14 when his much older sisters had already and moved on with their adult lives. He went to work at 14 and supported his mother until she passed away. Even this relationship did not foster any sharing of information about her. At one time as kids we thought maybe she was adopted. But I am finding this not the case because she is listed on the 1901 census with her mother and father (Newton) her last name living on the same street as Eleanor and William. I keep asking my dad what his grandmothers name was and he says Eleanor. I took it to mean his gg grandmother. It would not fit to have his mother's last name Newton when Eleanor was Harrison and prior maiden name I am thinking Cragg! s. I am just trying to piece together all the bits and details to figure it out. There are many things that are talked about with the family that were not discussed when my grandmother Florence Newton was alive. Rumor has it, she had a son either prior to marriage or while married with a French man. This son's name was Jack Boret, lived with his father and was in the Royal air force, and settled in Australia. This man Jack had a son who was also a pilot, and was shot down over Japan in the 2nd WW. All of this.... is coming from my 85 year old aunt who has talked about him all her life. She told these stories to her son Mark, my cousin and he still recalls them vividly. He did tell me, his father met Jack Boret during the 2nd WW and this is when Jack shared the story about losing his son over Japan. My cousin Mark claims, Jack was always his hero growing up. Visions of him in his place fighting, being the hero and all. My dad, the youngest does not know anything a! bout this. So, we do have the skeletons in the closet you might say. The whole story with Arthur Craggs is a mystery too. I will let you know what I find. Certainly interesting. Too bad, my grandmother was so closed mouth about her family. I too am finding housework hard these days Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne Hamilton<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com> To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com> ; ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS Lori, Your family has got me intrigued now (well actually it's Tuesday morning and this is much more interesting than doing the housework!). If you do get Arthur Craggs birth certificate I'd be curious to know who his parent/s were. I've noted doing a rough search on the 1901 census, William & Eleanor Harrison living in the same household as John and Margaret Newton and children. Have you seen the actual household details? Can you tell me what John and Margaret and William and Eleanor's relationship to head was? I don't want to confuse the issue right now but I have an idea forming about this family and the census information might help prove or disprove it. Thanks and regards Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Williams" <williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: Fw: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > Angela, could I be wrong about Eleanor. I was guessing on their marriage date based on when my grandmother was born. Could this be her? > Lori > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anne Hamilton<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com>> > To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:50 AM > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > Hi Lori, > > I've just seen your messages regarding your Craggs and Harrisons and > somebody might already have passed on the following information but just in > case, here goes... > > If you go to the FreeBMD website at > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/se<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootswebcom/cgi/se> arch.pl> and do a search for births of > Arthur Craggs, there is this entry: > Births registered in Dec 1875 Craggs Arthur Darlington 10a 28 > > Do a search for birth of Eleanor Craggs and you get this entry: > Births registered in Jun 1849 CRAGGS Eleanor Durham &c 24 97 > > Do a search for marriage of Eleanor Craggs and you get this possibility (are > you sure they married extremely young?): > Marriages registered in Jun 1871 > CRAGGS Eleanor Darlington 10a 19 > Harrison William Darlington 10a 19 > Meynell Elizabeth Darlington 10a 19 > Young George Darlington 10a 19 > > If you know the FreeBMD website, you will know that the database is not > complete - there could have been more people registered in that quarter of > that year, or the Eleanor Craggs mentioned, might have married George Young > or indeed someone else. Also, if you are sure they got married a lot > earlier, then the entry might not have been transcribed yet so would not be > there. > > I had a look around on the 1881 census for other Craggs living in Darlington > and came across this entry. > 1881 census > John CRAGGS Head W Male 37 Shildon, Durham, England Ry Engine > Driver > Jane CRAGGS Sister U Female 29 Waskerley, Durham, England > Dressmaker > John W. CRAGGS Son Male 10 Darlington, Durham, England Scholar > Charles H. CRAGGS Son Male 8 Darlington, Durham, England > Scholar > Sarah J. CRAGGS Daur Female 5 Darlington, Durham, England > Scholar > Lizzie E. CRAGGS Daur Female 4 Darlington, Durham, England > Source Information: > Dwelling 24 Henry St > Census Place Darlington, Durham, England > Family History Library Film 1342175 > Public Records Office Reference RG11 > Piece / Folio 4886 / 37 > Page Number 17 > > The Jane Craggs mentioned was born in Waskerley. Is this coincidence or > could she have been related to your Eleanor (if your Eleanor was a Craggs). > Could Arthur have been son of Jane Craggs? > > I think your best bet is to buy Arthur Craggs birth certificate and at least > that would tell you his mother's name, probably not his father's name if he > was illegitimate. > > Then (unless you're absolutely certain about them getting married very > young) you could try that possible marriage in 1871 of Eleanor Craggs and > see if she did marry William Harrison. If it's the wrong one, then at least > you can cross that one off the list. > > Anyway, hope this helps in some way and is not a wild goose chase, but if > nothing else, the Arthur Craggs birth entry in 1875 in Darlington would fit > with the 1881 census details of him so I would start there and go onwards. > > Regards > Anne > > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > I.G.I. Family Search > http://www.familysearch.org/<http://www.familysearch.org/> > Public Record Office U.K > http://www.pro.gov.uk<http://www.pro.gov.uk/> >