I am thinking more following the female side because his last name is different from the Harrison's who adopted him. But a weird thought I had, was when I saw the 1891 census, it looked like he was written in as serv, rather than son by the enumerator taking the census. I can see how he wrote son, and it looked different for two people listed on the street, reading more like serv. Now this was either bad handwriting or an observation the census taker made when he showed up at their door. Wondering how this observation was made seems perplexing. I thought maybe he noticed that Arthur's skin was a shade darker than the rest in the family. Making the assumption that he was not there son but serv. Do you get what I may be hinting at learning about my family? Arthur was adopted by the Harrisons and was in 1881 seen as their son, with his birthplace changed to read Durham, but he was born elsewhere. We do have some in our family that have black hair and olive skin. My da! ughter one, she is very dark much like my sister who has black hair and brown eyes, my husband is very Irish, we have traced his family back to Ireland. Red heads, blue eyes, blonds. I am also wondering who may have been the true parents of my gg grandmother Margeret. She seems to have been born when my ggg grandmother was just 10, that would have made her just 9 yrs old when she had sex. I too am thinking something not right in this. I am thinking more that Margeret because of her age may have been a product of incest. Marrying Eleanor off, soon as it was legal in the Catholic church, age 12 for girls. Something went on Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: Mandy Fenyvesi<mailto:mommy23@shaw.ca> To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS Could he be the son of a deceased brother? Or a product of incest pre-Eleanor and William? Mandy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Williams" <williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > You and I are really thinking alike, could a family secret be coming out? Is this why my grandmother was so secretive about anything to do with her family. I am beginning to think it is. Arthur Craggs holds the key to something out there. I still think written on the 1891 census looked to be serv by the enumerator. Could he have been mistaken as a servant rather than William and Eleanor's son. I do not know what things were like then, it is not as if they looked to have the finances to have a servant living with them. Could his skin have been a shade darker than the rest of the family thus giving the perseption that he was servant rather than son by the enumerator? Just a thought..... nothing to prove that > I am getting his birth certificate today from the site you sent. Thanks again for that. > > Margeret, birth date was 1859 backdating from the 1901 census living with her husband and their 6 children. She was born as written, Yorks England. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angela MacLellan<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk>> > To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > Hi Lori > > The details Anne sent are very interesting aren't they? > > As she suggested I think getting Arthur CRAGGs birth certificate would > be the place to start > > Then possibly the marriage certificate from Jun 1871. > > Do you have Margeret's birth date - to get her certificate? > > Is Margeret DEFINITELY Eleanor's daughter? > > You could put up a posting on ENG-DUR > giving the details for William Harrison and Eleanor CRAGGS > as much as you have year of birth, place of birth asking if > anyone can find them in 1871 or 1861 > > If they married as late as 1871 they may be together on the census > if the marriage was before Apr 1871. They would be separate in 1861 > > 1861 and 1871 are not searchable in the same way as 1881 and 1891 so > it may be a tall order > > Keep me posted - I am intrigued! > > Angela > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lori Williams" <williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>>> > To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com>>> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:48 PM > Subject: Fw: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > > Angela, could I be wrong about Eleanor. I was guessing on their marriage > date based on when my grandmother was born. Could this be her? > > Lori > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Anne Hamilton<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com<mailto:annehamilton@ntlworld.com>>> > > To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>>> > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:50 AM > > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > > > > Hi Lori, > > > > I've just seen your messages regarding your Craggs and Harrisons and > > somebody might already have passed on the following information but just > in > > case, here goes... > > > > If you go to the FreeBMD website at > > > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl<http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl>>> > and do a search for births of > > Arthur Craggs, there is this entry: > > Births registered in Dec 1875 Craggs Arthur Darlington 10a 28 > > > > Do a search for birth of Eleanor Craggs and you get this entry: > > Births registered in Jun 1849 CRAGGS Eleanor Durham &c 24 97 > > > > Do a search for marriage of Eleanor Craggs and you get this possibility > (are > > you sure they married extremely young?): > > Marriages registered in Jun 1871 > > CRAGGS Eleanor Darlington 10a 19 > > Harrison William Darlington 10a 19 > > Meynell Elizabeth Darlington 10a 19 > > Young George Darlington 10a 19 > > > > If you know the FreeBMD website, you will know that the database is not > > complete - there could have been more people registered in that quarter of > > that year, or the Eleanor Craggs mentioned, might have married George > Young > > or indeed someone else. Also, if you are sure they got married a lot > > earlier, then the entry might not have been transcribed yet so would not > be > > there. > > > > I had a look around on the 1881 census for other Craggs living in > Darlington > > and came across this entry. > > 1881 census > > John CRAGGS Head W Male 37 Shildon, Durham, England Ry Engine > > Driver > > Jane CRAGGS Sister U Female 29 Waskerley, Durham, England > > Dressmaker > > John W. CRAGGS Son Male 10 Darlington, Durham, England > Scholar > > Charles H. CRAGGS Son Male 8 Darlington, Durham, England > > Scholar > > Sarah J. CRAGGS Daur Female 5 Darlington, Durham, England > > Scholar > > Lizzie E. CRAGGS Daur Female 4 Darlington, Durham, England > > Source Information: > > Dwelling 24 Henry St > > Census Place Darlington, Durham, England > > Family History Library Film 1342175 > > Public Records Office Reference RG11 > > Piece / Folio 4886 / 37 > > Page Number 17 > > > > The Jane Craggs mentioned was born in Waskerley. Is this coincidence or > > could she have been related to your Eleanor (if your Eleanor was a > Craggs). > > Could Arthur have been son of Jane Craggs? > > > > I think your best bet is to buy Arthur Craggs birth certificate and at > least > > that would tell you his mother's name, probably not his father's name if > he > > was illegitimate. > > > > Then (unless you're absolutely certain about them getting married very > > young) you could try that possible marriage in 1871 of Eleanor Craggs and > > see if she did marry William Harrison. If it's the wrong one, then at > least > > you can cross that one off the list. > > > > Anyway, hope this helps in some way and is not a wild goose chase, but if > > nothing else, the Arthur Craggs birth entry in 1875 in Darlington would > fit > > with the 1881 census details of him so I would start there and go onwards. > > > > Regards > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > > I.G.I. Family Search > > http://www.familysearch.org/<http://www.familysearch.org/<http://www.familysearch.org/<http://www.familysearch.org/>> > > Public Record Office U.K > > http://www.pro.gov.uk<http://www.pro.gov.uk/<http://www.pro.gov.uk<http://www.pro.gov.uk/>> > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History > by ROY STOCKDILL > http://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html<http://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html> >