Does anyone have access to earlier census information. I would be eternally greatful. Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: Angela MacLellan<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk> To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS From Anne's information IF Jane CRAGGS is Eleanor's sister then the John CRAGGS on the census would be Eleanor's brother so if someone could find them in an earlier census they may be at Waskerley (or less likeley Shildon birthplace of John) A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Williams" <williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > I was thinking about this all last night, could not sleep. My dad just recently came back from visiting family in England and brought Eleanor's picture back, she looked to be around late 30's or early 40's. For some strange bizzare reason I decided to undertake finding her when I saw her, up until that time never having the inclination. It's almost like she wants us to know something. My grandmother, my dads mom, was very secretive about her past, never wanted us to know anything about them. I remember as a kid trying to put a family tree together for a school project. My grandmother, Doris Florence Newton was Margerets daughter. She came to stay with us several times and each time, I tried to find anything out about her family. But, she just put me off did not want to say a thing. My grandmother was a very vane woman, did not want us even to refer to her as grandma. She was not the best mother either, my dad does not share too many happy memories. > > Maybe Craggs was the name given to another daughter Eleanor and William had. I have yet to find all their children and they married extremely young and started having kids even before marriage, with my gg granny, Margeret. What if this was another daughters child? This is the only way the name would enter the family you would think. Unless he was a son of some friends they had and they took him in to raise as their own because of some circumstance. > I think I need to find a census with Eleanor and William Harrison and their children from an earlier time. They married around I am guessing on this,1860. Margeret being born, in 1859, when Eleanor was just 10 years old. This too is a story. I can not imagine having a kid at 10! William was just a few years older. Any child at the age of 9 having sex to me is a crime, rape. I just do not know if this was common place to have children at this age way back then. It just seems so wrong. > > I will go ahead and pursue the birth certificate with the site you found. Once again, I thank you a million times over. I am so amazed at how you have helped me. I thank you again and again > Have a great day, > Lori > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Angela MacLellan<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk>> > To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:13 AM > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > Hi Lori > > It is a puzzle isn't it? if he was Margeret's son why was he called CRAGGS? > > Margeret wasn't married twice was she? > > If she was Eleanor's son why was he called CRAGGS! > > The infomation someone else sent you is everything you need to get Arthur's > birth certificate > from the GRO as it is their reference - it may be a red herring but as it is > the only birth > to be found it is probably worth getting > > Arthur CRAGGS Dec 1875 Darlington 10a 28 > > It will be interesting to see what it reveals > > Angela > ------------------------------------------ > > Order a certificate > > > > A certified copy of a birth, marriage, or death certificate may > be ordered online from the General Register Office (GRO). This service is > now available to visitors based in the UK or overseas (as of 8 July 2004). > > > You can also order certificates from the GRO by post, e-mail, > telephone or fax. > > General Register Office > PO Box 2 > Southport > Merseyside > PR8 2JD > > > certificate.services@ons.gov.uk<mailto:certificate.services@ons.gov.uk<mailto:certificate.services@ons.gov.uk<mailto:certificate.services@ons.gov.uk>> > > > Tel 0870 243 7788 or (international) +44 870 243 7788 > Fax 01704 550013 or (international) +44 1704 550013 > > > Opening hours > Monday to Friday - 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. GMT > Saturday - 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. GMT > > > The GRO operates a graduated fee structure for obtaining a copy > of a certificate based upon how much information you can provide to identify > the certificate you require. By using the results from our site you can > obtain the full GRO reference and may benefit from the lowest charges > offered by the GRO. > > > Click the following link for more information on ordering a > certificate from the GRO. Their site will give further details on > certificate fees. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lori Williams" <williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>>> > To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com>>> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 4:07 AM > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > > I think you might be right. Now comes the story as to who's child he was. > Wondering if he was either an aunts on my ggg grandmother side (Eleanor) or > my gg grandmothers child Margeret, Eleanors daughter. She was older when > she married my gg grandfather 30's. I too think this is him, now I need to > find his family with his parents to see who they were. Any ideas how to do > this? Any help or ideas would be appreciated > > Thanks again > > Lori > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Angela MacLellan<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk<mailto:angela@maclellan.org.uk>>> > > To: Lori Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > > > > Hi Lori > > > > The Arthur CRAGGS born Dec 1875 would be only 5 yrs old in Apr 1881 > > he would not be six til the Dec 1881 > > > > So this may be your man! > > > > Just a thought > > > > Angela > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > > Could this be a cousin of his, born one year apart? > > -------------- > > > > There is an Arthur CRAGGS registered as below, could this be yours? > > > > Craggs, Arthur 1875 December Births Co. Durham North Riding of > Yorkshire > > 10a 28 > > > > Best wishes, Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > Hi Bill, this the Craggs in my family. > > > My ggg grandparents adopted a son, his name was Arthur Craggs, 5 > years > > old in 1881. They are, William and Eleanor Harrison > > > Arthur Craggs born 1876, Darlington, Durham England > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lori Williams" > <williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn> com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>>>> > > To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHA<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHA> M-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:M-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com>>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 7:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > > > > > I did see him listed on the census but there is another Arthur Craggs > born > > 1876 living with William and Eleanor. I am not sure how common the name > is > > with the s on the end. Maybe this was a relation to my Arthur Craggs > living > > with Eleanor. There are not many listed on the census with the s on the > > end. Could this be a cousin of his, born one year apart? Or is this > him, > > and they changed his birthplace to Darlington when he was adopted one > year > > later? This could have been it! The Harrison's, William and Eleanor > lived > > in Darlington but there daughter Margeret, my gg grandmother shows > Yorkshire > > England as her birthplace. She married my gg grandfather late, in her > 30's. > > I thought at first this was my ggg grandmothers nephew but can find no > > record of an Eleanor Craggs, born 1849, in Waskerly. So I am trying to > > figure out how Arthur Craggs came to be adopted by them. Could this > have > > been their daughter's child, my gg grandmother or a possible aunts > child? I > > am thinking th! > > > at more the relationship now. What ever the case is, there is a > > interesting story here. I thought I read on the 1891 census sent to me > by a > > wonderful woman, Angela MacLellan, Arthur was listed as serv, servant. > But > > he is down as a adopted son. We were thinking this was either bad > writing > > by the enumerator , when he should have been listed as a son. Hmmmmm > why > > would the census taker think to write serv rather than son? Could this > have > > been an observation he made and a assumption? Anyway, all the help from > > everyone is so amazing. I am landlocked here in the United States in > > Oregon, unable to know too much of how the counties are set up England. > So > > I am learning a lot and have so much more to learn. But I love it! > > > Thanks to everyone, > > > Lori > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > > From: Nivard > Ovington<mailto:ovington1@btconnect.com<mailto:ovington1@btconnect.com<mailt<mailto:ovington1@btconnect.com<mailto:ovington1@btconnect.com<mailt> o:ovington1@btconnect.com<mailto:ovington1@btconnect.com<mailto:ovington1@btconnect.com>>>> > > > To: Lori > Williams<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:wi<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:wi> lliamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com<mailto:lliamslorid@msn.com<mailto:williamslorid@msn.com>>>> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:58 AM > > > Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Re: CRAGGS > > > > > > > > > Hi Lori > > > > > > There is an Arthur CRAGGS registered as below, could this be yours? > > > > > > Craggs, Arthur 1875 December Births Co. Durham North Riding of > Yorkshire > > > 10a 28 > > > > > > Best wishes, Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, this the Craggs in my family. > > > > My ggg grandparents adopted a son, his name was Arthur Craggs, 5 > years > > > old in 1881. They are, William and Eleanor Harrison > > > > Arthur Craggs born 1876, Darlington, Durham England > > > > > > > > His last name was changed to Harrison in 1891. He is listed on the > > census > > > as Harrison. I am not sure what the story is here. I think that > perhaps > > > this may have been Eleanor's nephew from a brother or sister. I am > > still > > > looking into this. What stumped me was that in 1881 he is listed on > the > > > census as son, then in 1891 it looked like they wrote serv... looked > to > > be > > > servant. But I did some talking to others and it looks like the > > enumerator > > > who wrote the census had some bad handwriting, we did some checking > and > > he > > > is listed as their son. I will attach the notes given to me by a > great > > > helper. > > > > I hope this helps, > > > > Lori > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > > > (http://www.grisoft.com<http://www.grisoft.com/<http://www.grisoft.com<http<http://www.grisoft.com<http://www.grisoft.com/<http://www.grisoft.com<http>< http://www.grisoft.com<http://www.grisoft.com/<http://www.grisoft.com<http<http://www.grisoft.com<http://www.grisoft.com/<http://www.grisoft.com<http>>: > //www.grisoft.com/>>). > > > Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/04 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > > > U.K. PhoneDirectory > > > http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/<http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/<http://www.btcom/phonenetuk/<http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/<http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/<http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/<http://www.btcom/phonenetuk/<http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/>>> > > > Looking for an address in the U.K. try, > > > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.couk/>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History > > by ROY STOCKDILL > > http://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html<http://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html<http://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html<http://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html>> > > > > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > U.K. PhoneDirectory > http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/<http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/> > Looking for an address in the U.K. try, > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/<http://www.streetmap.co.uk/> > >