Further to my note below, the birth certificate has arrived for James Joseph Murphy b.12 May 1864 in Hartlepool, but it does not clear up any of the confusion between James Joseph & James Jordan Murphy. At this stage the documented records reveal; James Joseph Jordan # b.Hartlepool 12 May 1864. Father - John, Boilermaker. Mother - Mary Finnie. # Present in 1971 Scot census with his family - Scholar. # Present in 1881 Brit census with his family - Junior reporter. # No further record. James Jordan Murphy # 11 May 1889 m. Margaret Benson, St Bennet's, Sunderland. Father - John, Caulker. # 1891 census. b. Hartlepool abt 1865 - Caulker. # 1 Jan 1891, his son William Newman Murphy was born. James Jordan's occupation - Caulker. # 3 Mar 1893, Death cert for James Jordan Informant was his brother William (James Joseph also had a brother William 1881 census) Both James Joseph & James Jordan had a father John, Both born in Hartlepool abt 1864/5, both had a brother William. James Joseph no further record after 1881 census. James Jordan first appears in 1889 at his marriage. James Joseph's occupation at age 16 yrs was Reporter. James Jordan's occupation was Ships Caulker James Joseph's father's occupation was Boilermaker. James Jordan's father's occupation was Ships Caulker. Local Studies, Sunderland have been helpful to the extent that there are no names, other than his wife's on their marriage notice & the death notice. The Sunderland Cemetery Trust want 22 pounds per person for any search.(no charge & online in Aust). Other than continuing to buy certificates are there any other avenues of research I could follow in endeavouring to find the birth of James Jordan Murphy ?. Would St Bennet's church have retained their parish records ?. Alan Elliott Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Elliott" <elliottar@optusnet.com.au> To: <ENG-DURHAM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] JAMES JORDAN MURPHY - WHERE BORN > For those of who assisted, the Murphy family have agreed to search both > the > Scottish Census & to obtain the birth cert of James Joseph Murphy in an > effort to solve the mystery of this elusive grandfather. > > So far the 1871 Scot Census reveals that the birth place of James J Murphy > was Durham, England, not Turhone, England as the transcription by > Ancestry suggests. Quite clear and unambiguous. > > Now for the birth cert from the GRO, lets hope that his mother's maiden > name > is Jordan. > Regards, > Alan