Many Thanks Bruce Moorhouse From: eng-durham-request@rootsweb.com Subject: ENG-DURHAM Digest, Vol 4, Issue 118 To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 08:06:35 -0600 --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: NEGenealogy@aol.com To: ENG-DURHAM@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 05:29:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] St. Nicholas Church - Durham City In a message dated 08/07/2009 00:30:11 GMT Daylight Time, brucemoorhouse@sympatico.ca writes: I got a picture of St. Nicholas' church, Durham City, off of the Internet and noted a couple of statues out in front. One of a man on a horse and the other I'm not quite sure. Can anyone tell me who these statues represent? They are not so much connected with the church itself as ornaments to the Market Place, within which the church is located. The "man on a horse" is the 3rd Marquis of Londonderry, Charles William Vane-Stewart (1775-1854); born 1775 May 18; married (1) 1804 Aug 8 Catherine (-1812; daughter of John, 3rd Earl of Darnley; died 1812 Feb 11); 1814: created Baron Stewart; married (2) 1819 Apr 3 Frances Ann Emily Vane-Tempest (1800-1865; daughter of Sir Henry [1771-1813; 2nd Bt]; d 1865 Jan 20); 1821: assumed surname Vane; 1822: succeeded as 3rd Marquis of Londonderry; 1823: created Earl Vane and Viscount Seaham; d 1854 Mar 6. Lord Londonderry spent much of his life trying to build up the large landed and colliery estate in Co Durham, which he inherited through his wife, including the creation and development the town of Seaham Harbour, to which he had most of his coal sent for export, to avoid the excessive dues charged by the River Wear Commissioners. He spent so much on this that certain historians and others in Co Durham have in the past taken him as an example of a man as rich as Croesus. However, he was hardly ever without financial problems and had to do a lot of "juggling with his money" to keep himself solvent. Being an employer of so many men in his mines, and those men having often to work in conditions which were poor, even when compared to those in other mines, he is often painted as the archetypical unfeeling, hard, Victorian employer, whereas the truth is he usually simply could not afford either to improve the conditions in his pits or to pay his workers more. I put the words "man on a horse" into quotes because that was exactly the same description used by an uncle of mine, from Ryton, who joined the Army (DLI) in 1917 (he had been in a reserved occupation until then), and who, with other recruits was sent to Durham, where they formed up in the Market Place, and up Claypath, before being marched across to the Railway Station prior to being taken away to the joys of their basic traiining camp, and then to France. He had time, however, to send his mother a post-card from Durham saying "We formed up beside thon statue of a man on a horse and right up thon street behind". The other "statue" is a figure of Neptune, created a long time ago and placed in the Market Place before eventually being removed to a public park. All that was a long time ago, but a few years ago it was decided to bring it back from the park and replace it in the Market Place. See R W Sturgess "Aristocrat in Business: the Third Marquis of Londonderry as Coalowner and portbuilder" (Durham County Local History Society, 1975, ISBN 0 902958 02 X). See also The Londonderry Papers, a major deposit in Durham County Record Office, covering many topics, including Deeds, Colliery management, the development of Seaham Harbour, Railway management and the political and diplomatic papers of other members of that family, including Viscount Castlereagh. The family also owned Wynyard Hall, in the southern part of Co Durham, and kept it, along with their London house, until the 1960s, after which it became the home of ex-coal miner, property developer and owner of Newcastle United (in the days when that was not an insult!) Sir John Hall. Geoff Nicholson --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: stanmapstone@aol.com To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 05:32:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] St. Nicholas Church - Durham City The other is a statue of Neptune. http://www.durhamheritagecentre.org.uk/story.html Stan Mapstone -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Moorhouse <brucemoorhouse@sympatico.ca> To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 0:29 Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] St. Nicholas Church - Durham City Hello: I got a picture of St. Nicholas' church, Durham City, off of the Internet and noted a couple of statues out in front. One of a man on a horse and the other I'm not quite sure. Can anyone tell me who these statues represent? Thank you Bruce Moorhouse brucemoorhouse@sympatico.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: stanmapstone@aol.com To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 05:20:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] St. Nicholas Church - Durham City The equestrian statue is the 3rd Marquess of Londonderry Stan Mapstone -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Moorhouse <brucemoorhouse@sympatico.ca> To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 0:29 Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] St. Nicholas Church - Durham City Hello: I got a picture of St. Nicholas' church, Durham City, off of the Internet and noted a couple of statues out in front. One of a man on a horse and the other I'm not quite sure. Can anyone tell me who these statues represent? Thank you Bruce Moorhouse brucemoorhouse@sympatico.ca ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:55:22 +0100 Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] Maiden name or Previous Marriage Greetings to all, I just have query that I would like clarifying if possible please, I seem to come across so many 'Urban Myths' with my research I often lose track, either that or it is the advancing years taking their toll. The year is 1915 if that may be of any help. On a birth certificate under column 5 which is headed: Name, Surname and Maiden Name of Mother I have this: Florence Elizabeth Olsen formerly Fellowes. My question is; with it saying 'FORMERLY Fellowes' do I take this to be the mothers Maiden name or does the term Formerly refer [or may refer] to the mother having been married before and this was her married name of the previous marriage and not her maiden name. Regards to all Peter Fellowes --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: stanmapstone@aol.com To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 07:11:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] Maiden name or Previous Marriage Formerly is her maiden name. If she had been married before it would say Florence Elizabeth Olsen Late xxxx formerly Fellowes. Stan Mapstone -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fellowes <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com> To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:55 Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] Maiden name or Previous Marriage Greetings to all, I just have query that I would like clarifying if possible please, I seem to come across so many 'Urban Myths' with my research I often lose track, either that or it is the advancing years taking their toll. The year is 1915 if that may be of any help. On a birth certificate under column 5 which is headed: Name, Surname and Maiden Name of Mother I have this: Florence Elizabeth Olsen formerly Fellowes. My question is; with it saying 'FORMERLY Fellowes' do I take this to be the mothers Maiden name or does the term Formerly refer [or may refer] to the mother having been married before and this was her married name of the previous marriage and not her maiden name. Regards to all Peter Fellowes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: stanmapstone@aol.com To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 07:13:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] Maiden name or Previous Marriage See http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm Stan Mapstone -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fellowes <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com> To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:55 Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] Maiden name or Previous Marriage Greetings to all, I just have query that I would like clarifying if possible please, I seem to come across so many 'Urban Myths' with my research I often lose track, either that or it is the advancing years taking their toll. The year is 1915 if that may be of any help. On a birth certificate under column 5 which is headed: Name, Surname and Maiden Name of Mother I have this: Florence Elizabeth Olsen formerly Fellowes. My question is; with it saying 'FORMERLY Fellowes' do I take this to be the mothers Maiden name or does the term Formerly refer [or may refer] to the mother having been married before and this was her married name of the previous marriage and not her maiden name. Regards to all Peter Fellowes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: b.short@virgin.net To: peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com; eng-durham@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 14:46:54 +0100 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] Maiden name or Previous Marriage Just a word of caution - I have the birth certificates for 2 siblings where the mother`s maiden name is given as `formerly Stephenson` on one and `formerly Gray` on the second. I finally discovered that the mother was born illegitimate, but then took the name of her step-father. But why she varied it on the two certificates is a mystery - perhaps she had a poor memory and could not remember what she had said on the first occasion ! Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Fellowes" <peter.fellowes@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-durham@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] Maiden name or Previous Marriage > Greetings to all, > > I just have query that I would like clarifying if possible please, I seem > to come across so many 'Urban Myths' with my research I often lose track, > either that or it is the advancing years taking their toll. > > > > The year is 1915 if that may be of any help. > > > > On a birth certificate under column 5 which is headed: > > Name, Surname and Maiden Name of Mother I have this: > > > > Florence Elizabeth Olsen formerly Fellowes. > > > > My question is; with it saying 'FORMERLY Fellowes' do I take this to be > the mothers Maiden name or does the term Formerly refer [or may refer] to > the mother having been married before and this was her married name of the > previous marriage and not her maiden name. > > > > Regards to all > > > > Peter Fellowes > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message